Early Albie Nuts

[venture]

Don't know if you younger guys know but we were fishing bonitos on fly rods, from the beach as far back as 1977 with pictures of stringers of nice sized bonito to prove it. This was before the popularity of graphite, epoxy, flourocarbon, and all that stuff. We hit our first albies in 1980 from the beach at Cape Poque Martha Vineyard with articles in the Vineyard Gazzette to prove that too. We didn't even know what the fish were. We knew they weren't bonito. This was long afer we were already used to fly rod bass into their forties from the south side surf on fly rods as well as plug rods.

Back then, it seemed that the Albies and Bonito hit anything. Now if you want em, you got to go to 12lb flourocarbon, with epoxy flies. I remember one day fishing for the breaking bonito off the "old" Menemsha Jetty in '77 or '78 when I ran out of large deciever/blonde type flies, and put on a large Salmon muddler which did the trick as well as the blondes. Maybe it's because they are pounded so much now, but it is a topic of conversation that has been had with us old timers who have been fly fishing in the salt water for about 30 years.

Don't think you invented it, as I don't think I invented it. I was just copying people like Joe Brookes and Stu Apte. Those were the heros in those days.

Now, some of us older guys are too tired of chasing those little "Tunoids" as you call them. We do when we can't get out. We like to chase tuna, and we get'em. It's sometimes a little easier than chasing the little guys. Sometimes it only takes pitching a fly into a chunk slick, seathing with 50 - 90 lb tuna, let is sink to "their" depth, give a couple of quick strips and hold on for dear life. Then just hope the sharks don't leave you with only a head.

Oh well, I just though I would add some history to the literature I have been reading. Capt Howie

[JoanieB]

Venture,
Well I don't know about anyone else, but I appreciate your input. I must admit, Im pretty new to the game, only been flyfishing about 9 years. I owe much to the Stu Aptes and the Lefty Krehs for all their shared knowledge. I think we all do. The best part of this crazy pastime is the learning never ends. I'm sure having lots of fun learning everything I can. I hope you can share your knowledge with us all. Sounds like you have a few years experience under your belt. I hope in the future, I too will be able to help others with my experiences. Glad you found the site.

[venture]

Hi Joan, Thanks for the response. Yes I love to teach, and see other get not only the thrill of new adventures but the thrill of learning something new that expands their passions. I love to learn too, and have never been afraid to start from the bottom again in order to create a new challenge.

I am relatively new to offshore blue water. I've only been doing that for about 7 years now, and boy, did I have to take my lumps expecially at the dock. But now, I am accepted as a producer, things are a lot easier including the dock scene where the weak must protects their egos.

As I said, I am new to the offshore game, and last Wednesday, I caught the first Blue Marlin on my boat. It came as no surprize because we were stalking him for an hour or so before we rose him to our spread. It was a great achievement for me and the crew aboard. If I hadn't the many years of general fishing experience, which includes all the inshore stuff spoken about on this site, I may never would have hooked that fish out there.

There were two very important pieces of knowlege we used to get that fish. One was, "never leave the fish, no matter what". We saw him busting the offshore (Gulf Stream) lobster pots feeding on the Mahi that congregate underneath the floating ball. Other boats sited them, but none stayed around. They all kept hunting, not realizing that the Blue was feeding in this tight area which held at least 12 pots within a two mile square.

The next rule learned way back was from an old surf caster from Montauk who fished bass exclusively from the beaches and was a legend in the 60s. He never caught bluefish, only bass, and most were pretty big. When asked how he does it, he would always reply, " fish for bass, you'll catch bass, fish for blues, you'll catch blues". We all know what that means, and if you don't you should start learning.

Anyway, when we saw the Marlin busting, we took all the tuna (small stuff ) off, and put tremendous marlin lures out. We only spent years ogling at these tremendous things, wondering how anything would go after something so big. Yet even that we didn't have any prior experiance with these large lures, we put them because "we were fishing for Marlin". Weaving through the pots, and chasing him around for about an hour, wondering where he was going to show up next, guess what - Pow right in the kisser. He took the biggest thing out there with such agression that it looked like someone threw a piano into the wake. An hour and a half later, he was boat side for a release. We estimated it to be around 400 pounds due to the length being about 2 feet shy of the transom width of 13.5 ft.

By the way, the guys name whom I quoted was Nickie Weiss. He through big white Adams and Dannys off the rocky reefs on the south side of Montauk. So now I tell the guys at the dock who never saw a big Blue, hey, "fish for Marlin, catch Marlin, fish for Tuna, catch Tuna". Thanks Nickie, and thanks Tony for never leaving the fish. Regards, Capt Howie

[joshr]

Howie--

We all surely owe a great deal to those who paved the way. Peter R. (AKA Tuna) and I have been sticking albies on fly around Montauk and Gardiners longer than most, but our experience pales compared to that of the legends you mention and your own. Nevertheless, we have developed some novel techniques in recent years, and have discovered the little buggers really aren't terribly line shy at all if fished the right way. (I frequently take them on 30 lb. mono bit tippet when fishing them with blues around). We have even developed flies that are more effective than the traditional epoxies under many conditions (Peter, you know what I'm taking about buddy, but Blinken will kill me if I say much more ;-) ).

Anyway, wish I were gonna be out at the 'Tails with you this weekend to learn more about the bluewater game. But, alas, mother nature is throwing us some east wind and swell, so I guess I'll have to try to stick some bass in the bay...and maybe this east wind and the recently arrived 'chovies will trigger those little forked tails to start their fall feed. I'll be sure to think of those who got all this started back when I was just a wee tot while I'm tight to my first albie of the season!

--Josh Reibel

[Tuna]

Please post more of your bluewater experiences. Spoke to Josh Saturday and he mentioned the marlin you got. There's a fish that makes many (all?) others seem like carp. Never seen one personally, but have seen video (like Taj Mahal getting one on OLN) and what they do in the air is breathtaking.

Sure wish I had tried the small tunoids as early as you - back then, I was still thinking of spinning as light tackle for salt water, and my favorite catch was bluefish. Would have liked to target the small tunoids back when you describe them as easier to catch (not that I don't like a challenge - I just don't avoid gimmes);

I definitely think the albies have gotten harder to get over the 10 years I've chased them. Used to tell my brother Jim that they were immune from pressure out at Montauk, but once they started getting popular out there, they got harder and harder to get. Last summer, a friend (Bob) who's been fishing with me for them during this time decided it was not just added pressure, maybe the darn species are learning.

[venture]

The first Bonito we ever caught on flies were on Martha's Vineyard, in September 1977 to be exact. We had rented a cottage on top of the knoll looking right down on the picturesque New England harbor. On one side, the harbor, in the middle was the small inlet boardered by submerged rock jetties, and then the beach of the Vineyard sound. We got there late the night before, and the only rods we strung were the salmon rods. We called them salmon rods, but they were the fly rods we already used to catch Stripers and Blues when the fish were close in. They were fiberglass 10 wieghts with double tapered lines. Great for mending while salmon fishing. Real sloppy and heavy as compared with todays "RPLXXXXXXes". The leaders were straight 50# from the nail knot to the fly. "Never know when that unwanted blue fish would take your blonde", so 50# was the ticket. Forget the complications of tournament leaders. We were never into that stuff. We used what was needed to get the job done period..
The next morning, while our wives were cooking a great breakfast, with bacon and eggs permiating the salty overcast day, Ronny and I saw fish breaking off the jetty. They were busting pretty good. It was outgoing and the fish would work into the harbor between the jetties, and out. You guys have seen it like this.
Saw the fish were not Bass or Blues, they looked like the same bonitos we were catching on the south side of the Vineyard at Wasque Rip on tins. Grabbed the only rigged rods which were the fly rods, and glad we did, because we started something that would last the rest of our lives. We tossed regular blue and white or yellow and red, blondes or decievers tyed on a 3/0 to 4/0 mustad, and pow, straight 50 and all. You could land all you want, if you could bang out a cast with a 15 - 20 knot wind in your teeth. We sold the local Menemsha fish distributer for 9 cents a pound. That easy fishing lasted for years, as long as the fish were there, you could get into them pretty good; right off the beach or jetty.
By the way, there are guys on the Vineyard fishing exclusely for these fish. Some of the guys date back to just about when I am talking about and some don't Some even much earlier for bass. I remember first going to the Vineyard in the late 60s and heard about this legendary Police Chief in Edgartown. He would moonlight as fly guide on Cape Pogue (Chappy), and was known to stalk them at night towards the tip the penisula. He would get'em in the shallows up to 50 pounds all on flies. That was in the 60s. My first bass was there, caught on cape pogue on a popping bug at dawn to swerling bass of 5 pounds. Wish I could remember his name. But their are still guys like Kib Bramhall, Cooper Gilkes, Kenny Vanderlaske, that all still live up there and still love those little tunoids from the beach.

[venture]

The first Bonito we ever caught on flies were on Martha's Vineyard, in September 1977 to be exact. We had rented a cottage on top of the knoll looking right down on the picturesque New England harbor. On one side, the harbor, in the middle was the small inlet boardered by submerged rock jetties, and then the beach of the Vineyard sound. We got there late the night before, and the only rods we strung were the salmon rods. We called them salmon rods, but they were the fly rods we already used to catch Stripers and Blues when the fish were close in. They were fiberglass 10 wieghts with double tapered lines. Great for mending while salmon fishing. Real sloppy and heavy as compared with todays "RPLXXXXXXes". The leaders were straight 50# from the nail knot to the fly. "Never know when that unwanted blue fish would take your blonde", so 50# was the ticket. Forget the complications of tournament leaders. We were never into that stuff. We used what was needed to get the job done period..
The next morning, while our wives were cooking a great breakfast, with bacon and eggs permiating the salty overcast day, Ronny and I saw fish breaking off the jetty. They were busting pretty good. It was outgoing and the fish would work into the harbor between the jetties, and out. You guys have seen it like this.
Saw the fish were not Bass or Blues, they looked like the same bonitos we were catching on the south side of the Vineyard at Wasque Rip on tins. Grabbed the only rigged rods which were the fly rods, and glad we did, because we started something that would last the rest of our lives. We tossed regular blue and white or yellow and red, blondes or decievers tyed on a 3/0 to 4/0 mustad, and pow, straight 50 and all. You could land all you want, if you could bang out a cast with a 15 - 20 knot wind in your teeth. We sold the local Menemsha fish distributer for 9 cents a pound. That easy fishing lasted for years, as long as the fish were there, you could get into them pretty good; right off the beach or jetty.
By the way, there are guys on the Vineyard fishing exclusely for these fish. Some of the guys date back to just about when I am talking about and some don't Some even much earlier for bass. I remember first going to the Vineyard in the late 60s and heard about this legendary Police Chief in Edgartown. He would moonlight as fly guide on Cape Pogue (Chappy), and was known to stalk them at night towards the tip the penisula. He would get'em in the shallows up to 50 pounds all on flies. That was in the 60s. My first bass was there, caught on cape pogue on a popping bug at dawn to swerling bass of 5 pounds. Wish I could remember his name. But their are still guys like Kib Bramhall, Cooper Gilkes, Kenny Vanderlaske, that all still live up there and still love those little tunoids from the beach.

[Tuna]

Thanks for more detail on the early ones.

Here's my memory of the first albie my pop took on a fly in 1991.

Early Sept, he and I leave Shinnecock by boat to drive to Montauk along the south shore. Very thick fog, so we use the compass and depth finder (and ears for breaking waves) to make our way along. We estimated our speed and, when we thought we were new, hooked up Loran which told us we were about a mile southwest of Caswells. We move to shore and the fog clears to reveal a killer bluefish feed at Caswells.

We each got a few blues on the fly (I think we were using big white deceivers tied to 50 pound mono as a leader). Then, boom, one of pop's fish takes off like a freight train. And ran, and ran and ran.

Got it in, and it was a beautiful small albie (maybe 6 pounds).

We were both hooked, and spent the rest of that fall (and several others til he passed away) trying to figure out how to catch more albies than blues (we didn't mind getting the bass).

The image of Caswells emerging from the fog will stay with me forever. The look on my pop's face when he boated that first albie on a fly will also.

[David Churbuck]

<P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>I let the New England board know about this thread. Long-time Reel-Time regular and Canal expert BobG asked me to copy this over:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>From BobG:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>"<FONT class=main_text face=verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif size=2>dave, that sure is a great thread! i'll also post this on the n.y board if you'd like. <BR>since so many guys on this board fish albie and bones, i often thought about posting on this topic from an "old-timers" recollections.:-) <BR><BR>during my college years, i fished the elizabeths commercially for bass. from 1970-75, i fished all along naushon, pasque, nashawena, cutty-h, over to devils bridgs, gay head, etc. <BR>while i never fished them on a fly rod, i sure saw, and caught them in large numbers too. <BR>i'm embarrased to say, at the time, i didn't know what the hell they were either. i knew they were some sort of tuna species(or sub-species), but that was all. <BR>i was always about this time of year, just before i was about to go back to college they'd arrive, and arrive in huge numbers. on a nice day, it seemed the entire sound had pods of tunoids slashing the water, with terns following their movements. <BR>i was not very sophisticated in my technique. i simply troll a 13 hook umbrella rig on about 50 yds of wire @ about 1000rpm's on the tach, and simply circle the edges of the schools. i usually only took 10 minutes or so to hook up. i saw there were differences in some of the fish. i realize this was not much sport, but since i was only using them for lobster bait, it mattered little. <BR>i took many on a 8' spinning rod casting metal like a kastmaster or swedish pimple. but, an old friend of mine from chicopee, used to made this "homemade" lure which was a killer. i was made out of a 4" section of a car's radio antenna. he'd crimp one end, pour lead into it, crimp the other end, drill holes for split rings, and hooks. then, he'd put a bent in it, and paint about 1/3 or it flour orange. <BR>one day, i was about 3 miles off naushon, fighting a albie or a bone on my spinning rod. i've got about 100yds of line off the spool. just a flat calm day in late august. off in the distance, i could see (and hear) the coast guard hydrofoil, the Flagstaff comming out of wood hole. this boat must have been 90'! the boat was within 100 yards of me in minutes (it was increadibly fast!), and cut my fish right off! <BR>personally, i never saw another person fishing the tunoids in all that time. which goes to prove what a virgin fishery this was at this time. <BR>i never took more than a half dozen at a time, since that was all i needed for lobster bait. <BR>it did seem as thought they were very easy to catch at that time. i read the posts now, and from what i see, this might no longer be the case. <BR>sadly, i've never taken one on a fly. maybe at some point in the near future i'll give it a go. <BR>or, someone will take me for a boat ride?;-) <BR>bobG <BR><BR> </FONT></FONT></P>

[David Churbuck]

<BR><P><A href='<img src="http://www.reel-time.com/gallery/pix/1977.jpg">'>&lt;img src="http://www.reel-time.com/gallery/pix/1977.jpg"&gt;</A></P>

[venture]

Wow Peter. What a great story. I know the Caswell well. As you discribe it breaking through the fog, with the surf and cliffs right there. What a beautiful setting to remember especially when it's the background of a very fond memory of your dad.
Howie