Fly Fisherman getting a bad rap

[venture]

You know I am a bit disappointed with this forum. There is very little action going down here, and the little action that does go on is followed by a bunch of congraduations, flattery, and brown nosing. Come on people, let's see some writing here. With that said, listen to this.
Fly fisherman bave a pretty bad rap in the salt and rightfully so. They are considered narrow minded sissys with fragile egos making much to do about nothing. I read a post on another "Fly Fishing" forum from an idiot who asked if using plastics, like a curly tail, incorporated into his fly was OK?? What's this jerk mean is it OK?? If the fish like it, it's OK. Is he going after some world record or something maybe he should contact the IGFA, but he probably doesn't even know they exist. He actually had other idiots respond to his thread analysing if in fact it was a lure or a fly, and God forbid it was a lure. Well what is a fly for God sake if not a weightless lure that can be only cast with a fly rod. Another guy seriously suggested making it out of some natural fiber like leather and then it would be considered fly fishing. Can you believe this garbage.

It's stuff like this that gives fly fisherman a bad rap. I fly fished most of my life, and believe me when I say I never introduce myself as a fly fisher. Most of the crew I fish with know how to cast a whole fly line, tye their own flies, butn none of them consider themselves fly fishers. It's just a piece of equiptment that sometimes is what is needed to catch the fish, or sometimes just to add variety to what we love.

For sure let's not make it into something that it is not. That's what's been happening to the sport ever since the river ran through it. Every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Sue is buying Orvic Clothing and Billy Pate reels and trying to oursmart eachother with pure ignorance, and making the real die-hard fishing fanatics look bad.

My best friend can tie perfect #28 midges and sell them to Orvis yet put him on a Key bridge with Tarpon rolling, and he'll ask you for a live shrimp. When the albies stop biting during a mid-day break is it OK if we soak an eel into the rip and catch a couple of 40 pound bass and then hit the albies again when they start their late afternoon bite? I should have asked that clown on the other site if that would be OK??? Howie

[AndyF]

Howie--there are a couple of truths in your somewhat angry post.

1. No technique is "not ok" if you enjoy getting out there and using it (except, maybe, hand grenades).

2. There should be more writing in this forum (although a spellcheck would be nice).

3. Some people can be overly judgmental in discussing fly fishing, and they are annoying.

Having said that, I'd hate to see the forum degenerate into a name-calling fest. Did you see what happened to soundfishing.com? I grew up catching fish on bait (including rolling Tarpon in Islamarada) and still enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with it. But I find flyfishing a lot more challenging and rewarding when I catch fish.

As much as I love tarpon, given the choice between catching one off a bridge with a live shrimp or catching one on the flats with a fly, well I'd love to do both but I'd enjoy the latter a lot more. It's more challenging and it gets the adrenaline flowing a lot more.

I'd love to hear more of your stories about the giant tuna and the off-shore action, and love to hear fishing reports no matter how they're catching them, even if off a bridge with shrimp. But this is, after all, Reel-Time, "the journal of saltwater fly fishing," not the journal of saltwater bubba fishing.

So keep up the posts, and everyone agree not to be a narrow-minded sissy.

[Ltack18]

Well, I guess that even a good Flame War would be a welcome change to the one or two threads a week posted on this board. I'm leaving for Nantucket on Friday. I'll post a report on the New England Board. Those guys know how to post. By the way, my father taught me to flyfish about 35 years ago with a five weight fly rod, a level floating line, and a tapered leader connected to a tandem hook rubber worm with a little bead and spinner. Knocked the hell out of the panfish in the Delaware River. IMO, it was flyfishing but it definitely wasn't a fly. Oddly enough, the techniques were far more similar to saltwater flyfishing than the trout fishing that we segued into.

[mctrout]

Since you asked, I guess I will cautiously wade in with my slant on this thread.
-Although I have been fly-fishing for over 10 years, I just bought my first spinning outfit a year or so ago. because yes, sometimes it is more productive, or sometimes the only way to catch fish under the circumstances. That is when I really am desperate to catch fish. Most of the time, the outdoors, the company and the fresh air are enough for me. catching fish is my goal, but not my first priority.
-Fishing is never a competitive sport for me. Mother Nature is in charge. the challenge for me is if I can figure out the riddle she has given me for the day. The right tide, the right fly for the right hatch or baitfish, can I cast into that wind or avoid spooking that fish on the flats. this is the challenge that I get pleasure from.
-Dunking eels for 40 pounders is fishing, just not my kind of fishing. Unfortunately my life and family demand so much of my time, I need to limit myself to what I will do to catch fish. Just like I only limit myself to One full season sport to be a fan of (tne NBA by the way).It is not that I don't like Football, Baseball, Hockey etc.. I will not spend 2 or 3 hours a day, everyday watching some sport. cool if you want to or have the time to, but me. One sport. same with fishing. If I can't catch it on a fly-rod I am not that interested. Does this make me a snob or Sissy? who cares. Do I want to have a house full or 12 different kinds of rods, reels, lures, plugs, bait buckets, chum bags, coolers, 10 differnt spools of mono, wire and lead core. spinning reel, level wind, baitcasters, etc... screw all that. got a few flyrods, few reels. tie my own leaders, flies, rig em, etc.. I take pleasure in that.
- Does this forum suck, yes. it has for years. thats partly my fault for not posting very often. I guess I am stealing since I take info but don't reciprocate. I am sorry.
-Do I care if a fly is a fly. well for myself I like to keep within the boundries that I set for myself. Do I put wiggle tails on my flies. NO. I think they look stupid and to me don't represent the bait that I am trying immitate. IF I am not confident in the fly that I am using, I will not catch fish. If I think a #28 BWO will catch Bonito, I will use it and probably even get some fish with it. It dosen't matter what you all think, it is important that I believe it will catch fish. and usually it will.
-I don't like to fish with bait because I feel that bait caught fish usually die, if you release them. I guess circle hooks have changed that some, but since I only keep 1 or 2 fish a year, i skip the bait. do I care if the fish is 15 pounds or 40. not really.maybe I am fooling myself, but trophys are for winning something. usually arguments in a bar. why would I want to argue about fishing. It is sacred ground to me, and has saved my ass in times of need. not to mention, do I want to go around thinking I have Mother Nature figued out? for me that is asking for trouble. especially is Saltwater.
- and lastly, as you stated, Fly-Fishing takes more skill in my opinion than most other fishing. Thus I get a better feeling from it. Sure I could catch permit on a live crab, but hooking one on a fly that I tied, that is the ultimate. Did I land that fish. NOPE. that is where the challenge and learning comes in. next time I wouldn't use 8lb tippet on a 7 weight rod.
So... I say to anyone, knock yourself out. try not to waste and disrespect the resource, give me a little room to cast if you see me out there and good luck, casue Mother Nature is calling the shots.
PS the Albies were thick off Montauk this past Sunday afternoon, all about 10 pounds, with a massive Bluefish blitz along the rocks for good measure. Tuesday saw pretty good bass blitzes in the middle of the day on the south side, with bluefish thrown in. very few Albies from 11 to 4. did I catch some. yup, some.
regards
McTrout

[fmw]

The fact that this board is kind of lame is, I think, mainly a good thing. The regular posters tend to be a few people who mainly fish the East End. I think that because the audience is limited, the regulars feel like they can post detailed reports and give detailed advice without fear that spots will become overrun -- which I think often happens as a result of posts on other sites. If I can learn and share information about keeper bass rolling on the shoreline at a particular spot and still not see a soul at that location the following weekend, I am all for keeping this board as low key as possible.

I leave it to others to address the other points.

[venture]

Great Post Mctrout. If a curly tail looks stupid to you attached to the end of a fly, THAT'S the reason not to fish it. If you have tried and hate dunking an eel even challenged with the big puzzle "Mother Nature" throws at you, that's OK. If fly fishing is all you are interested in, great, especially when you spend most of your fishing time figuring out "Mother Nature's Riddle" as you call it. If you think fly fishing takes more skill that ALL other types of fishing, you may be wrong, yet from the sound of your words, I don't beleive that you spend any of your time having to prove it.

I would like to add that the "Riddle" you speak about, and being able to figure it out on any given day, throws the greatest challenge of all, to all fisherman, no matter what they use. Fishing an egg sack on a 14 foot noodle rod for big browns upstate may be the ticket for success with those trout. It requires as much skill as presenting and tracking a #28 Blue Winged Olive (BWO) to a trout sipping midges in the tail of a slick pool. Or figuring out where that Marlin will show up next is the challenge, and has nothing to do with tackle. Finding the tuna offshore, in the big wide open 360 degree ocean can be one of the toughest riddles of all. Those who are consistant at it are extremely skillful no matter what tackle is used. If fly fishing is all you prefer doing, fine. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it takes any more skill than many of the other techniques employed by others who are also working hard figuring out 'The Riddle'.

[joshr]

It's funny...I've just never understood why anyone would argue about the right way to fish. Do what you like to do. Just respect the resource and your fellow anglers, as McTrout says. I do tend to enjoy flyrodding the most, for many of the reasons McTrout shared in his post. That said, I've had great times plugging, trolling offshore, chunking offshore etc. And Venture is certainly correct that all those methods are extremely complex and difficult to master. Putting out a good spread and trolling up big game is a science that takes years to become accomplished at. Like all kinds of fishing, it has its "gimme" days when anyone could troll up a fish, but more often than not, it takes a great deal of knowledge and skill, perhaps quite a bit more than inshore flyfishing, which--let's face it--is not rocket science. Sure, the flats game is very technical, but for most of the inshore flyfishing that most on this board do most of the time, one can become competent (although probably not highly skilled) quite quickly and easily.

Whatever the method I'm using, I do tend to, like McTrout, take my pleasure from the hunt and strategy more than the catching (But remember, most offshore guys would say EXACTLY the same thing....they tend to argue about who HAS to fight the fish, not who GETS to...they're in it for the hunt too most of the time). I enjoy being on a tropical flat hunting Mr bonefish, Mr Permit and/or Mr Tarpon with fly more than all else in fishing, but that's just personal taste and has at least as much to do with how beautiful I find those settings and how much I enjoy the visual elements of fishing as it does with the technical aspects of stalking in skinny water and making accurate presentations or any of that.

I have great respect for talented offshore anglers. I have done enough of their game to know that I enjoy it and that I know only the rudiments, but also that I don't think I'd ever get as into it as I am into flats fishing. I do love gear, so that's not it...but maybe there's something about the scale of the inshore gear that I like. Also, I think I just enjoy the rhythm of fly casting, so if I'm out on a boat all day, I like to cast even if I know a hook-up is unlikely. I also like the sensitivity of the tackle and directness of the connection to the fish. Anyway, it's not all or nothing for me. Some days I've been offshore I've wanted to get as many fish as we could on the troll; other days, I've tried to convince my Capt. that I would prefer to try to get one fish on fly even if it meant few or no fish instead of trolling up plenty. They're different games with different challenges and different sources of excitement, and some days I'm in the mood for one; another time I want to try another. As the kids say, it's all good. ;-);

As far as bait fishing goes, some kinds are really dynamic and fun to me; others less so. I love "working the food chain"--i.e., using some really small bait to catch something bigger that you then use to catch something bigger and so on up the food chain. Haven't done a ton of that, but when I have, it's been really cool...just feels like you're connecting the whole ecosystem. There's also something really serene about throwing a castnet at sunrise to get your pilchards before heading offshore in, say, FL. On the other hand, I've never had much fun eeling...certainly beats working, don't get me wrong, but I just get kinda bored....probably, I don't know what I'm doing either, though.

Anyway, the one thing I do feel strongly about, which was also mentioned by McTrout is that, whatever our preferred method, we all respect the resource. I don't believe there's any precise definition for that respect, but there are things I believe are flatly out of bounds--killing billfish for a trophy mount, for instance and certainly poaching undersized fish.

Anyway, just my thoughts on these topics.

--Josh Reibel

[mctrout]

Hey Venture
I think I said MOST fishing. And I am strictly speaking of the cast and maybe the fighting of the fish. or i'll atmost say the learning curve on the cast is steeper than regular gear. BTW I have never casted a level wind or baitcaster without getting a bird's nest. so....
But the Marlin thing is very cool and someday I hope to go offshore and see some of that action. as of now my 17 foot Mako is a little small for all that. Tunas' Mahi catch inshore has gotten me all pumped up to catch one. I have looked under every pot or buoy with 30 miles of the varranzano bridge and haven't seen any yet. any idea if the are consistently around anywhere closer to shore off Montauk?
ANyway I am looking forward to fishing Montauk this sunday-monday-tuesday and will fishing alone tuesday if you are around, let me know.
regards
Brendan

[Tuna]

Funny thing, this one didn't turn into a flame war, but just some better posts than average. Seen the same type of thread go south quickly elsewhere.

As Josh says below, its all good - if you enjoy the type of fishing you do, and have a reasonable intuition regarding protecting the resource, then its a good kind of fishing.

For those with a passion for the water, for unraveling a riddle in it, its quite easy for that passion to be misunderstood, or for the energy from it to cause a problem here or there. Its true of many things for which passion is felt and expressed, but maybe even more so for fishing, given its so primal. So there's fly guy versus bait guy wars. Shore bound versus boat bound wars. Circle hook versus traditional. A lot of it is just energy release from passion. And I respect that passion, feeling more than a little of it myself.

So other than looking the stereotype, I do try to avoid contributing to the false wars that look like steam being let out. Catch your fish on what you want, how you want, within some vague but common sense bounds of respect for the water and its inhabitants. 'Cause its all good.

[peteD]

Venture,

There was a time when if you brought a fly rod on Montauk Pt. you would be flamed right there on the beach. Things are better now, but the anamosity still exists.

I love fly fishing from shore. There is no better challenge then balancing on a rock while an albie rips line out. If anyone considers that being a narrow minded sissys with fragile egos making much to do about nothing. I challenge them give it whirl. For real fun do it at night.

[venture]

Hey Mctrout or Brendan,
The reason I liked your original post was that you placed no value judgements. Also there is no disputing taste. My original post was angry because of the frustration I experienced hearing some " Holy Fly Fisher" trying to make something difficult about something so easy. Obviously the reason for many doing that is because they must feel superior to the other group "who does anything that catches fish", and that would be beneath the stature of one who throws a fly line. Pooh. Most who that busy themselves with making things more difficult can't even cast a line well.

I like your hesitation in thinking fighting a fish on a fly MAY be more challenging than most. The reason you hesitate is because you don't really believe it yourself. You know that the type of tackle usually does not affect the challenge. Ho w easy is it to fight and land a false albie on a fly. It's real easy. Most new comers are just not used to a fast fish that takes line. They are one of the easiest fish to land. In open water, they go out, they come in, they go out, and they come in, and guess what, they even come equipt with a handle.

This is not to say that landing all fish on fly rods are easy. Take a big striper at night, from a south side beach, in the rocks, and you have a challenge. Take a fresh Atlantic Salmon, in one of the lower pools by the sea, in a rough river with tough wading, and you have your hands full. Take a Giant tuna on a 130 international, with him running full speed at the boat or a tarpon on conventional gear under a key bridge on the gulf side with a ripping outgoing tide and you have some challenges ahead of you. Not to mention the boat handling needed for many big fish regardless of the tackle used.

And as far as fly casting, once you've got it, you've got it. It's that simple don't you agree? Just because many other fisherman don't know how or have no experience with it doesn't make it more difficult than it really is. I know a great fly fisher, painter and writer who lives on Martha's Vineyard named Kib Bramhall. He's pretty famous on the Island. He almost fishes exclusively with a fly, yet he loves and fishes an old calcutta surf rod with an old conventional reel loaded with 40 pound dacron. He throws old wooden plugs in the surf, from the surf, and from his whaler. He's an old salt, and part of the generation that invented surf fishing after world war two. As you said in your post, level wind and conventional gear is pretty tough for you even though you are talented enough to throw a fly line.

I love level wind and conventional gear. I love casting them and I love fighting fish on star drags. I hate spinning. Spinning has absolutely no benifits over conventional other than it is easy to throw and good to have on board for the amature to feel good about themselves. If mastered, conventional out casts and out fishes, and out fights spinning hands down. You can jig, plug or bait fish properly with them. Ask yourself why you purchased a spinning rod instead of a level wind. May it have been because you weren't up for the challenge, all those bird's nests you mentioned?? Maybe you have a level wind already, but if you don't, you may want to do some sole searching and discover to discover what your fears are. They may be similar to the fears that spin fisherman have about getting into fly fishing.

I have really enjoyed reading all the follow up posts on this topic. I also am happy to meet you Mctrout, and happy this post pulled you out of the woodwork. We need some of you strong oppinions in this forum. Forget the reports. Let these pros find the fish. This stuff is much more fun.

I would love to fish with you. I also will be out at Montauk. I purchased fresh butters and sardines from Fulton Fish Market, and are going offshore this weekend. You are invited to come aboard if you like and try your hand at landing some difficult fish. Actually, most of the time they are difficult, just very tough. Call me on my cell anytime. My cell number is 516 818 8199.

[venture]

Pete, I love fly fishing from shore, night or day, and yes I've balanced on rocks with either surf stick or fly rod in hand, and challenged incoming waves from my perch and have been pulled off the rock from the pull of a heavy stringer of bass caught in the same wave that I just survived. In the water, surrounded by fish on the stringer wondering if I was going to survive and be able to get back to my perch.

Just because you fish fly doesn't make you a sissy, but don't think what I discribed above is the most challenging thing either. Challenges come in many forms, and this fishing which you mentioned is challenging until one has mastered it. Then the challenge becomes less and less, and maybe some of are ready to test new horizons inorder to re-kindle the challenge.
Howie

[ikarus47]

I am very new to this (flyfishing the surf) but I cannot resist adding in my 2 cents to this discussion.

Maybe there is some analogy here to religion or sex. There really is no one right way to do it, just some ways feel better than others......., and clearly this may differ from person to person.

Protect the fish and TL,

Andreas.

[peteD]

Howie,

Other that donning a wet suit, and floating around at night with a fly rod, which I'm not ready for YET,
what do you consider a challenge?

[fishbuster1]

What venture is getting at here is the arrogant, I'm better than you attitude that, in a lifetime of salt-water fishing, I have seen in about 3/4 of all fly fishermen. Particularly those who got into the sport durring the orvis invasion of the past few years. I have experienced the highest levels of salt water fishing, I enjoy fishing with a fly rod, BUT I can assure you that it is not the most God Holy form of fishing on the planet. Most of it's participants just think it is and are blind to their arrogance/ignorance.

[David Churbuck]

Good thread and glad it hasn't veered into the kind of name calling that the usual "my way of fishing is better, tougher, cooler, whatever, than yours

In the early 90s, when I discovered online fishing stuff, the online fishing crowd on alt.fishing used to moan about all the wannabes that showed up on the Western rivers, decked to the nines, more bucks than brains, more attitude than experience, thanks to A River Runs Through It. For a while it was referred to as "That Movie." The fad went away and I bet there's a lot of nice Sage five weights getting dusty in a lot of garages. Fly fishing for trout is where the holier-than-thou stuff, and looking down of noses really gets going. Remember how they portrayed the boyfriend who fished with worms in That Movie?" Hung-over and sunburned? Then drooling on about the religious experience of casting, bible under the arm? Dry flies on bamboo rods fished upstream on private waters ... veddy British. They call bait fishing "coarse fishing" over there (then again they use maggots and have a dozen different kinds to choose from

Some people like to fish a certain, traditional way, and others try to mimic it to show that they're part of that tradition. I’ve seen it on the back beach at three in the morning on the new moon in October. Townies on the beach with conventional gear giving spinners guff

I think we can agree that nobody likes a poseur, but they keep the tackle industry in business and if they're real dilettantes, then their gear eventually shows up on Ebay for a song.

I've yet to really experience this "superior attitude" from fly fishermen on the salt. I don't fish freshwater because there's fish in the salt when the ponds aren't frozen, and I don't ice fish. Saltwater flyfishing is hard. Casting in the wind is hard. You generally can't see the fish, they have a whole lot of water to hide in, and those you do catch usually have teeth and would kick a trout's butt. Fishbuster says 75% of the fly fishers he sees are insufferable. I wouldn't know. I'm not a charter captain. I don't see many fly fishers. Those I do see can tend to look pretty weird, with those hats with the flaps and the dishpans roped around their waists, but I guess if I spent my time fishing overfished spots like Monomoy, or if I saw a conclave of dentists rallied by Reel-Time arrive in my favorite spot, I’d be ticked off too.

I fish by myself most of the time (I go out of my way to be alone when I fish), or with a couple friends who use whatever they feel like. My best friend prefers to spin cast. My brother prefers to spin. They know how to flyfish, they just don't like it as much as I do. Big deal. I carry a spinning rod on the boat everytime I go out on the water. Whenever I hit the beach I carry a 9' spinning rod. Whenever I fish the Cape Cod Canal I carry a 11' conventional rod with a Squidder. When I bonefish I use a fly rod. It's a lot more fun hunting and targeting the fish and I have more success than I do with a spinning rod. When I fish for tiny tuna I carry a fly rod. I think I catch more than I do with a spinning rod. I liveline bluefish with live pogies on my canal spencial

What I won't do is troll or jig with wire. Trolling is flat out the most boring thing in the world for me, though I suppose if I saw a blue marlin in the wake I'd change my mind. Wire line jigging? Everytime I do it I have to poop. Seriously. Jigging, back and forth, back and forth, a quart of Dunkin Donut’s coffee at 7 am, and I find nature calling

Offshore? I'll crank in a big fish the usual way, but I'd rather break out the big fly rod and see what it's like to fight a shark or dolphin or big tuna if I get the chance. And guess what? I’ll put bait on the fly to catch one. There's not a lot of gear between you and the fish with fly tackle, and I'd rather catch one the hard way than a ton the usual way. Sluggo flies, Clousers are actually jigs, puh-leeze! But I won't hold up the fun trying to wrestle a striper out of a rip on a ten weight while my friends are impatient to get on with it

Anybody who cops an attitude because someone is using a different technique isn't going to be on the water very long. It ain't competition, it's recreation we're talking about. Life is too short to worry about dimwits or to argue about such stuff, including catch and release, or fishing with flies made out of anything but feathers and fur

Orvis gets an undeserved bad rap. One non-Orvis shop on the Cape -- now out of business -- used to have as its slogan: "No dog beds." Sure Orvis sells dog beds and cracker throwers, and natty duds. They're selling a lifestyle. Like Ralph Lauren sells preppy and Martha Stewart sells Housewife from Hell. My local Orvis dealers have far more fly tying material and other gear than the local bait and tackle. So when I need a hank of Crystal Flash or a spool of 25# flouro, I go to Orvis. They can't sell me a dozen eels or a flat of butterfish. That’s when I visit Karen at SportsPort in Hyannis.

A writer named Philip Wylie wrote a great series of stories about a Miami charter captain and his mate for the Saturday Evening Post in the 1940s and 50s. A few years ago his daughter published a collection of them which I strongly recommend. One story, "The Way of All Fish," is about two fishermen arguing over which is the more challenging way to fish, inshore for bonefish, or offshore for monsters

"You paunchy, deluded sissies, who can't sail the high seas in a boat, or hang onto anything heavier than a casting rod, have gotto go on believing bonefish are red-hot, or you'd lose your self-respect...One medium dolphin would convince you that bonefishing is like hunting in a hen yard with field dogs."Where upon the bonefisherman smacks the offshore guy in the face with pie.

Yup, Reel-Time is "The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing". And I might add, the original one at that. The purpose of Reel-Time is three-fold: 1) provide a forum for a community of fly fishers 2) provide current fishing reports and features for fly fishers and 3) provide some how-to advice for fly fishers of all abilities.  Believe me, I get email beefing about how the discussions veer off into talk about conventional fishing all the time. Someone even suggested using abbreviations in the subject line to designate whether a post was about fly fishing or not. I don't and won't discourage discussion about fishing in any form. Fishing is fishing. But If you really want to get down about eel fishing go to Stripersurf or NorEast.com. If you really want to talk about saddle hackle and palmering, I'm sure there's a more focused place than this. Reel-Time is focused on fly fishing first, and all other kinds of fishing second

As for this forum, New York specifically, it has been slow compared to New England but is definitely picking up thanks to some hardcore users like Venture (Howard), JoshR, Jay Puris, and many others. You reap what you sow. The Cape and Islands is where Thorne and I are from, so that’s where the site got its start and where most of its users are. We’d love to see more noise out of New York, and the Chesapeake and Florida …. New England used to be even more of a mad house before other sites siphoned off some of the users -- mostly users who didn't like the presence of non-flyfishermen in their forum and a crowd of pretty nasty users who were quick to attack anyone they didn't agree with.

Things are pretty civil these days. Thanks for helping keep them that way. And thanks to Venture for kicking off a good thread.

[venture]

Hi Pete,

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you. To answer your question; what do I feel is challenging, I would say that fear has always been my greatest challenge.

I did do the wet suit deal back in the early 70s and it was scary and that was I think most of the challenge and attraction to it. If I overcame the fear I could reap greater rewards with the same skills that I once was the challenge. I guess I see it as growth but it always seems that there is fear involved.

The greatest challenge for me now is going to unfamiliar offshore grounds for some greater rewards. There are many fears I am challenged with on these trips. As a captain, there are huge responsibilities not only for the safety of my crew but also finding and catching fish. Unfamiliar grounds are scary and rightfully so, especially out east off Nantucket. BUT the prize of a Giant Bluefin is a good counter balance for my fears. I try to remind myself to use these fears to make me a better captain. It forces me to learn and to grow.

I have only fished Nantucket once, not knowing what to expect. New types of rigged baits, new techniques for giants, the whole deal of fears, not to mention safety, distance and running at night in offshore shoaling conditions. It took two days to find the fish, and then we limited out on the following two days with Giants. That was the first time.

Fishing for Giants on these grounds is obviously my presently greatest challenge. I still fear the whole thing, from distance, safety, tackle, technique, and lastly, fighting one of the most powerful animals on earth. I just need to keep telling myself, if I fight the fear, the reward is exceptional. I fight the fear with preparation.

Maybe, if your like me a bit, and have these fears, you would donne that wet suit and float around at night with a fly rod as you said in your post. You said you are not ready for that, but maybe you are, especially if your a little scared BUT you know you could be well rewarded.
Howie

[peteD]

Howie,

I think you summed it up perfectly. As fishermen we are driven against our fear to get that bigger fish, or in finding that perfect spot. The events of this week, have made me think about what is important. Family, friends, and enjoying life. Stay safe and enjoy.

[sickclown]

I only fish, for now, in freshwater creeks and rivers. I mostly dead drift various nymphs for steelhead. I believe in using whatever works.
I use trout attractant on all of my flies because I think fish can smell. I also use real egg sacks if I don't have to fling them out more than a little ways. I've been catching many more fish with egg flies doused with attractant. The sacks work even better.
I only reccomend egg sacks if you can stand over the fish without scaring them. I use a 13' spey rod and just dip the sacks in a few yards in front of them depending on current. If the sacks come to rest in front of the fish it will go for it after a minute. If you try to fling out bait over a distance with a fly rod you will look nuts.
I use the spey rod in all shore circumstances. When fishing for steelhead you're going to accidentaly spook them. They move to the other side of the creek and then what.It is so much easier to get a fly across a creek with a spey rod. Then if you spooke them they just move right back to you.
I like fly fishing because I can keep the explosions on the surface of the water to a minimum and present my flies as a nice suprise to the fish. I have never tried fly fishing from a boat.
I hate fishing.

[Mark Cahill]

You must have really been back in the archives. Heck, some of the folks that contributed to this thread aren't with us anymore (God rest...). I'm closing the thread now - it was a good one, and an excellent example or what I like about this forum. It didn't go south, even when dealing with several topics that typically ellicit flame wars.

Thanks for the reminder of why I like this place so much. Couldn't have come at a better time.