Canal fly line???

[bb1]

Last week I asked about fly line for NE waters, and the info. I got helped a-lot...but I got conflicting advice about line for the CC canal.

I was told anything from sinking tip, to full sinking, to interchangeble tip lines.

Is there anyone out there who actually fishes the canal (from shore)?

Will a sinking tip help me get over the shelf there?

Would a full sinking work in most situations (currents).

Do I need interchangeble tips for the different currents?

This is all to confusing to a first timer...and EXPENSIVE.
I am looking for a line that will work in most situations.

:p

[David Churbuck]

Does anyone try to mend a line in currents like the Canal? All my attempts to do so with anything other than a floating line end in disaster.

Also, do you go with a shortened leader with a sinking line? I shorten up with I use them during bonito/albie season and wonder if the same would hold true in river/canal situations on a fast sink.
dcc

[bdowning]

It depends on where you are. At the Mud Flats off Bell Road on the Cape side, you can wade from the tip of the parking lot at low tide relatively close to the channel drop off. I've used full sinkers there with few hang up problems.

Just about everywhere else though in the Canal proper, it's trickier and you have to experiment with different lines and learn where the hang up spots are AND at what tides. It can be a lot of work, which is probably why you see a lot more fly guys at the flats where there are no such worries. Still, the attraction of the Ditch is convenient shore access to a near constant supply of big fish throughout the season, which makes it tempting to put up with its nuisances.

-bd

[Fitzy]

I usually fish with an intermediate line at night. I do miss some fish, as Sagebrush said, but the major problem I face is I feel like I'm not getting down to the bigger fish. I know there are some hogs in there, but I've never gotten anything over 26-28". Maybe it's how I fish or where I fish... I usually fish around the bridges at night or any eddies that look fishy.

Good luck,
Fitzy

[adrian]

The CC canal certainly presents challenges for the fly rodder but the potential upsides make the efforts worthwhile. Last season I paid a visit with my 15ft spey rod and big herring patterns. I was headed for Chatham so didn't give it much of a try but I will try again this year - the code is there to be cracked.

Where in the water column are those live-lined herring when the big fish hit - hugging the bottom, mid-water??

[Mark Cahill]

Okay, I don't claim to be a canal expert, and I'm sure there are varied opinions, but here's my take:

Bass don't like to work when they don't have to. In the Ditch there is often a very strong current. The fish will hang in the eddies created behind the rocks, gobbling up bait that gets swept by them. Unlike a trout stream, the location of eddies changes with the current strength and direction. Hence a spot may hold fish at one point in the tide and not at another.

Yes, they do come up to hit on the surface, and they will chase bait outside the eddies. But the eddies produce. That's why you will often see one guy hooking up every cast, the guy next to him hooking up every third cast, and you standing 10 feet away don't get anything but the odd hit.

[bb1]

Looks like there is no easy answer to this question...and I will need to learn for myself as I try with this new (to me) way of fishing.
I started to use a light (for me) 30lb superline spinning rod last summer...and thought I would try a fly rod this year.
Like Fitzy I intend to fish rips and the bridges @ night for schoolies...but I always go deep for the big ones, to see if they are there.

I never get to fish the mud flats Bill, at there always seems to be a group of chunker's @ the tip...and I have never cought a good size fish there anyway.

The 'shooting head' system Sagebrush talks of is the way I think I well go...or maybe pick up some inexpensive lines on eBay to start with. And he is so right about fish, good size fish, marking YOU, and getting lock jaw. If you stay in one spot for long w/ artificials, your hoping for moving fish, or turned on fish.

As for Adrians question, large bass hit at all depths for herring. The largest (39") I cought 2 years ago @ the canal w/ live herring, hit while I was retreving (cranking @ speed) my herring in...3' from shore, in front of 6 others fishing @ rods length apart! And what a HIT it was!

One last question...is a sinking - shooting head w/ a intermetiate running line, the equivalent of a full sinking line, of the same sink rate?
I have heard of people using straight mono as running line to achive depth.
:p

[bb1]

I am making a 9', 9wt. Loomis IMX rod...I have the handle done...I belive it is a med-fast action.

I have a Teton Tioga #10 reel w/ one LA spare spool to work with.

When making a shooting head, can you make a loop, or do you just tie the running line on? I have not seen any shotting heads on eBay so far.
Sagebrush, do you know what lb. test your running line is? 20,30?
I also like the idea of the 30' shooting heads, aspecially @ the canal.

Well of to the canal tonight w/ my 30lb Newell, 7'11" custom graphite chunk rod...hope I stay till monday! The fly thing will be on hold for now (herring season). :p

[bb1]

What a great link Sagebrush...thanks,

As a rod builder I could really get into that shooting head article. But WHO makes a 'fast sinking' DT line to work with...most are floaters?

The only big down side to shooting heads for me would be the short casting I think.

I guess I can buy those loops at a fly shop?

Do you think I will need to start with 2 line sizes higher (11wt) with my 9wt Loomis IMX?

I also liked the roll cast first animation...everyone interested should take a look at that link.
:p

[allen newell]

Hello bb1

When I fished the Canal with fly, I used anything from a 250 grain line and higher. The drop off from the shoreline rock cribbing is fairly steep and you need to get your fly down quickly in the fast moving current. All the larger fish I caught in the Canal on fly were dredged up from the deep.

regards
:)

[bb1]

Hi Sagebrush,
Do you remember what line's you used on your IMX 9wt?

I took it (from that link) that you go up in line size to load the rod right...not that 10 or 11wt would sink better as shooting heads.

I wanted to find a DT sinking line so I would get 2 shooting heads from one line.

There seems to be floating and intermediate running lines, but no sinking?

Can I just use a WF S line and use the WF for a SH...and the back of it for a running line?

Feel free to e-mail me direct if you like...

I also had a good time with the stripers last weekend.
:p

[CaptBobPaccia]

Capt. Bob Paccia here,

I've fished and guided on the Cape Cod "ditch" for over forty years. All I can tell you is that if you want to get into big fish in the canal you have to quickly get you flyline out and down. This is especially true during herring season, when the only thing that seems to turn the big bass on is herring or a herring substitute, like a well tied and well presented herring fly.

You will have to deal with wind, high riprap behind you and strong currents. How do you do it? Learn to cast full sinking or sinking tip lines up-current as if you were salmon fishing some of the more famous salmon rivers.
Can a sinking line get caught around one of the numerous bolders in the canal that are always covered with $60.00/line cutting barnicles? Yes! Is it difficult to learn to cast with a high banking? Yes! Does it annoy the live herring and chunk anglers to see you hook into
a 15lb-25lb bass? Definately!!!

A few things you will need top know.

1. You can't mix in with the live herring or chunk bait anglers. Abslutely Not!!! Your casting will drive them crazy. Your line will not drift at the same rate as their lines and you will certainly snag their lines. This will immediately make you very unpopular. This is not a good idea when you are perched on a rock within inches from one of the more dangerous currents on the East Coast. It is much healthier for you to move to a more secluded portion of the canal. After all, it is more than seven miles long and the bass travel up and down the length on both sides.

2. Try to find an area with some kind of outcrop. Like a couple of boulders that protrude out into the current. Bass, especially large bass, like to find somethig to hide behind so that they can ambush baitfish being push by the strong Canal currents. This is structure, you know, again like trout or salmon fishing.

3. Learn to cast a full sinking or sinking-tip line before you arrive at the Canal. It is not a good place to learn to cast. Take a fly casting lesson with someone who knows what you are trying to accomplish. Try to learn to cast large herring type flies. These are usually tied on 5/0 to 7/0 hooks and are anywhere from six to twelve inches long. One of my regular clients describe it as trying to cast a very large pigeon into the wind. It really isn't that bad. If you are using the proper equipment and have put the time in you can learn to cast these flies thirty to sixty feet out without too much trouble. I know that doesn't sound like a super distances, but on the Canal the bass can be right in close to the shore. That is one of the reasons that we cast up current and not straight out.

4. If you are thinking about wading in the canal, forget it! The rock are slippery and the current can tip you upside-down before you can regain your footing. Also, being lower in the water will inhibate you high backcast, which will be needed to overcome the high backdrop shoreline behind you. You are far better off taking a clue from the veteran live herring and chunk anglers, and wear knee-high boots. These will give you much better footing and you will not be tempted to do much wading.

5. Keep in mind, you are responsible for your actions while fly fishing at the Canal. A carelessly placed backcast that catches someone walking, jogging, cycling or skating on the service road behind you could be a very costly circumstance. Always check behind you before you cast.

The Cape Cod Canal is a very difficult body of water to fish properly. This is true whether you are live herring fishing, chunk bait fishing, pluging, jigging or fly fishing. It is, however, one of the best opportunities that you will have for getting near some really large stripers. It is worth the fustration and difficulties and it why many of us have returned there each year.

Good luck,
Capt. Bob Paccia
Shoreline Guide Service

[allen newell]

Hello bb1 and Sagebrush:

I fly fished the Canal for a number of years before acquiring a boat which we now use almost exclusively.

However, I fly fished the Canal mainly from the Sagamore or mainland side of the Ditch. There are three issues to contend with in the Canal when flyfishing:

1. the steep banks and undergrowth do not allow for easy backcasts and;

2. the fast moving current impedes getting a fly down quickly which in most cases you need to do.

3. access to spots where there are decent eddys etc where you can locate good fish

You need a sinking line - lead core, 250 grain or higher. Sage... recommends a 325 to 450 grain and I have used both with success there. Since the current and drop off from most locations along the Canal is consistent, my recommendation to you would be to use a full sinking line and forget about changing heads etc. Pick a line and fish with it and don't worry about not having multiple systems.

Walk the Canal at high tide and low tide and mark those locations where you see eddys, possible pools where fish may hide.

Face the bank when you cast in those spots where you have a high bank and undergrowth behind you and cast your line in effect on your backcast to the water (I hope you get the visual froim this). You need to watch where your cast is going to avoid getting caught in the bank brush - so I learned to fully face or half face the bank and in effect cast to the water over my shoulder. Again, I hope this is clear.

Use a weighted fly and use nothing longer than a 4 ft leader.
You need to get the fly down fast and upcurrentas much as possible quickly. Try counting down in seconds and remember this when you get strikes - it will help you figure out where the fish are are how long you typically need to wait to let the fly settle down.

You do not need to make very long casts from shore as the fish will lay up pretty close to the side walls of the Canal which drop off quickly and very deeply

Lastly, forget casting anywhere there's a lot of that slick kelp/eelgrass/ whatever as you'll likely fall in - it can be dangerous. If yoiu do , make sure you have a walking stick to brace yourself as you climb over the rocks that may be covered with that stuff.

Get to the Canal early to get to your best spots - they'll be competition

Keep it all simple, and good fishing.

allen

[bb1]

My Loomis blank is a second also...I found out it has a tip one size larger than usuall.

I am going to buy some cheap sinking lines on eBay and give it a shot @ the canal.

To make things worse (for a beginer) I intend to use the fly rod @ night there to avoid the crowds...in the summer, after herring season, when fishing there can be tough w/ conventional gear.

Sagebrush, I bet you like that T+T 10wt...I hear they are wonderful.

:p

[bb1]

Sagebrush, I wanted to use a oversize tip guide to match the set Loomis recommends, but they start at size 6...my blank uses a size 5.5.......but the 6 I ordered fits very snugly on the blank.

Would you think this blank is closer to a 9/10wt than your 8/9wt IMX?


:p

[bb1]

Capt. Bob, I intend to use my chuking boots while fly fishing the canal...thanks for the heads up, and great reply.:p

[jj big fish]

its so great to see talk about fly fishing in the canal. ive been an canal rat for a while now and this year instead of fighting everyone and the herring agents for herring and a spot to fish im learning to fly fish. i am a virgin to this.i caught my first fish sunday across from the lobster pot res.man it was increidible and the fish was only 12inchs long.i got a learn but some day i want to fish the canal with a fly rod. any advice on medium price but good fly rod and reel for the canal or buttermilk bay please give it thanks

[Bob Parsons]

Places like Goose Hummock have a reasonably priced introductory package -9# rod, line, reel. When I went that route, it came with an intermediate line. Once I got a feel for the outfit, I switched to a sinking line. For around $200 it's a start so you can get a feel for the sport without breaking the bank.

[bb1]

Sagebrush,
Thanks so much...I am high bidder. Some how I missed that one yesterday. I had no idea a line could be for 7-11wt rods? What does Q.D. mean from Courtland?

I also bid yesterday on a SA Wet Cell II WF-9-S 'Fast sink'.


:p

[bb1]

Sagebrush, Thanks again for the heads up on that line...I would not have found it as I do my search for 9-12wt lines. I just upped my own bit for it. I found a Courtland catalog w/ the QD line in it...I don't think the saltwater QD has the funny 6' floating rear taper? I see the QD's have a blunt (no taper) end to them. Could I use a stright, 4', 40lb flourocarbon leader w/ no taper/tippet w/ that line @ the canal?

I also saw some multi wt. Teeny lines in eBay today that look interesting. How are they?

And then there was this stripping basket insert #1826198510 on Ebay's fly line search. Is this a good idea?

Well off to the canal tonight for the weekend w/ the 'wagon' and basket.
:p

[bb1]

Sagebrush, I meant 20lb...I went to some semenars @ the Marlboro (fly) show, and I think one or more of the speakers said he uses stright 20lb leaders for stripers .

My question was more of, do I need to use tapered leaders and or a tippets with that blunt end QD line @ the canal?

I know tapered leaders turn over better.:p

[bb1]

Sagebrush, I won that QD line you found for me on eBay...$26. I think the running part of the line is almost worth that!
Thanks...

I'm not sure if I know the difference between a leader and a tippet come to think of it? <lol>

:p