Getting started

[gfm]

<P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>Learning alot by following this board.&nbsp; </FONT></P><P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>Someone explain what the deal is with "flatline" I assume we are talking about the corner rods (ie back two rods) with some type of arrangement to flatten lines with water. Let me guess - I need to buy something.&nbsp; Few times I went offshore with charters neither used em?&nbsp;&nbsp;Also, what is the general rule with "birds" my understanding is that they are in front of lure to create some action in the water - always use em?&nbsp; use em with which lure set-ups? different types?</FONT></P><P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>&nbsp; If you were starting to build offshore tackle collection what are&nbsp; "musts" and do you buy the stuff that comes pre-rigged - I would rather know how to rig this stuff myself but until I learn seens like the way to go?? </FONT></P><P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>Finally, when (if ever) are you trolling teasers without anything following it - ie are you committing an entire rig to a lure with no hooks? </FONT></P>

[BlackHawk]

Re: Flatline
A flatline uses release clips attached to the transom. The line from a rod is pulled down and placed through these clips and thus runs at a very flat angle to the water. This helps keep the lure running true by preventing it from being pulled up and out of the water, particularly useful when you are trolling in the first few wakes. Also may aid in preventing your lines from crossing each other.

[josko]

Easy flatline kit: use large rubber bands. pass the band around the bottom guide (with the rod in the holder with guides facing forward) then around the line brought down from the tip, then back around the bottom guide. Eventually you can get a couple of outrigger clips and attach them to the transom corners somehow...

As to lures, there's no end here. If you're trolling soouth of MV, I'd start with:

1. couple of rapala CD-18's or Yo-Zuri Bonitas
2. 6 (no less) cedar plugs formed into two 'chains'
3. Some Zuckers or similar feathers.

Troll diving plugs on flatlines, followed y cedar plug chains followed by feather singles or chains. Should work on schoolie bluefin, dolphin and yellowfin. The most certain thing is that you will buy more lures.

Most charters pull only 4-6 lines to minimize confusion in the cockpit with novices. As you learn, you will want to pull more lines. You're way out there, with limited time and paying for all that gas, so why not put out a few more lines? We got pretty good with 9 or 10 lines on a 26' boat.

After last season, I'm not sure birds are worth their keep in the spread. Focus on getting a nice tight close spread. If you want, put a lure some 200-300' back, with a bird some 6' in front of a lure. Didn'tg do much for us last year, though.

For rigging, get a book 'Tuna and Marlin Fishing' by Pete Barrett. It covers rigging pretty thoroughly. I think you should start rigging your stuff from the start, since lines wear and abrade pretty fast, and you have to redo the rigs all the time anyway.

[backman]

<P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>Flatline question has been answered.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Lures - cedar plug chains and jet heads were our most effective lure though we always had a couple green machine and tuna clones in the pattern as well as something big deep and a large swimmer in close.</FONT></P>
<P>You probably want 2 cedar plug chains; each comprised of&nbsp; 1 large (9 or 10"??) and 2 small (7") cedar plugs.&nbsp; We did fine w. natural wood as opposed to colored.&nbsp; I'll cover rigging in a bit.&nbsp; Couple green machines, a half dozen tuna clones (blue/white was our choice) and a half dozen bullet head feathers (we did well w/ purple) rigged into doubles and triples gives you another nice set.&nbsp; Couple big single lures that throw water; chuggers as an example are also good.</P>
<P>We got hammered on 5" Kona jetheads by all sorts of species; 3 or 4 of those should be in your bag.&nbsp; Then get a couple big deep swimming lures; yozuri's, rapalas, etc - the 10 or 12" babies and your set to start.</P>
<P>Rigging - you need a crimper, 150# mono and the appropriate sized sleeves.&nbsp; Size 7/0 or 8/0 hooks, beads to position the hook in the right place in the lure and your good to start.</P>
<P>Crimping is simple and fun once you see one or two sets made.&nbsp; I'd suggest going to a good tackle shot (Jim Young in Eastmans will show you) and asking for a demo of how to put it all together.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You need a crimper; a serious side cutter for tools.</P>
<P>Trolling teasers without a lure - I created a squid chain of 8 or 10 squids on about 30' of mono to hang off the transom to make commotion.&nbsp; The theory on teasers is that if you make enough commotion and get fish near the spread; they will then fall off the teasers and eat a lure.</P>
<P>Not that I have seen it work that way, but thats what the magazines say.</P>

[franks]

Josko's trick for using a rubber band as a flatline clip works pretty well. I've also seen the rubber band looped around the reel handle. On my boat, we use release clips attached to suction cups that we stick on the transom. Clips give you a more consistent release than rubber bands.

Josko & Larry's advice on lures is fine for tuna & dolphin. Pay attention to Josko's suggestion that the diving plugs go on your flatlines. Mixing diving & surface lures can be trouble when you turn, especially if the diving stuff is way back. Besides, you want the diving plugs pulled from as low as possible.

There are plenty of people who swear by birds. They catch fish, but so do lots of other things. Feel free to experiment with them, but by no means are they a requirement for catching fish. The same goes for spreader bars.

As a general rule, try to put together a spread that won't tangle when you turn. Diving plugs pull differently from surface lures. Birds & spreader bars behave differently, too. You can learn a lot by observing the way your lures run when you turn the boat. The windier it is, the more care you have to take.

I don't know that hookless teasers are all that important unless you're trolling for billfish. The way dolphin & tuna feed, they tend to blast a lure pretty hard and then move on. When you run over a school of hungry dolphin or tuna, you often get hits all over your spread practically simultaneously. I've certainly never seen them come up and follow a teaser, then switch to something else. Billfish are a different story. Teasers definitely work on them.

The one comment I disagree with is Josko's suggestion that you pull 9-10 lines, especially if you're just starting out. Most of the boats I know pull 4-7 lines, plus two teasers, even with a professional crew and experienced anglers.

[Slamdance]

Josko: That day you Larry and I were out we had a Medium/small giant BFT crash the Bird. I was looking aft while you were driving and who know what Larry was looking at :-), but the fish came clear of the water summersaulted over the spread and crashed on the bird without hitting a hook.

[gfm]

You guys are awesome! OK assume we go with 6 lines (I will tell you that I fished with Ben Tribkin on my boat last year and he said any more than 7 lines is more trouble than it is worth - on 28' boat) including outriggers - where in the spread would the various lures that have been suggested go. If I am getting this - the flatline would be closest to the boat(feet from the boat?)and would pull the deep divers. The next rod would be where we would pull say the green machines or cedar plugs and finally we would pull the floaters - say the birds etc or something creating some comotion. Obviously, my goal of learning from Ben was not acheived - to tell the truth having someone who had a clue and also willing to drive the boat home lead me straight to the cooler - therefore had a great but don't remember ****.

[backman]

<P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>GFM - pull the divers as close as you can.&nbsp; We used about 6-8' of bimini'ed double line then about 6' of leader between the bimini and the lure.&nbsp; When I put the divers out I'd attach the line to the clip about 1' past the bimini twist; maybe 15' max. off the transom.&nbsp; Josko ran them a bit further back, but both of us had the divers well within the propwash.&nbsp; Frank's advice about managing the spread to work well in the turns is critical also; you want kind of&nbsp;a balanced and layered spread where the close stuff is deep; the middle is perhaps subsurface and the far stuff is on the surface and designed so as not to tangle on the turns.&nbsp; The trick in the turns is to layer the spread so you can make a hard turn and have the left side not interfere w. the right side, nor have longer lines cross with shorter lines.&nbsp; Its easier to see than to describe but after perhaps 2 trips Josko and I had it pretty well figured out so we rarely crossed.</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>One other thing we learned is that if your pulling 3 long lines; 2 off the riggers and one shotgun in windy conditions you have to watch your lines to make sure the windward lure doesn't get pulled under the shotgun's line in the turn.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>As Josko's mate I go along w./ the 9 rig spread and think its managable and makes sense in calm conditions but don't like it in&nbsp; either weedy or windy conditions as it keeps me hopping to tend the spread.</FONT></P>