Internet effect on Recreational Fishing!!!

[Stonyflyer]

Before diving into the thread topic I'd like to say that was a
very stand up commentary John gave in his weekly report
today. I know it will be appreciated by many fellow fishermen
and objected to by a few others.
To the point as in Montauk point as elsewhere. Prior to
the advent of P.C.s and website most fishing reports were
done by word of mouth or by a weekly report in various
publications. If one wanted to be in on the action one had to
spend time either on the water or on the surf. Action was
kept close to the vest and shared with others who work the beaches or waters on a consistent basis. With the advent of
fishing sites people now have instant access to where the
fishing may be happening within a 24hr time period or less.
People who fish once or twice a year run down to the water
where things have been reported hot and a overcrowding
situation occurs both on the beach and on the water. With
Kaminsky's book and the glowing reports on Montauk from
this site as well as others I believe have caused an already
overcrowded situation to worsen. I've seen little out of the
way fishing spots ruin by internet reports. The reporter does
not take into account that maybe the spot has no legal parking and is a private residential area. The local fishermen
in that area have been allowed to fish for decades there but
when a swarm of people come down the Local law enfor-
cment are called in and everyone loses. If I post reports
I try to keep the area general. If you know the general
area a good fisherman will find the fish soon enough.
So to sum up with a question. Has internet reporting such
as with Montauk worsen the quality of the fishing en-
viroment that we all hold precious?
Stony

[bigblue]

Hasn't it always been that way in Montauk? A few years ago some jerk was almost hooking me with a Rabbit lure because he thought I was too close. If he would've hooked me, I would've made sure that he was sitting in jail for starters and then he would've been sitting in court and saying goobye to a lot of his money!

[BIGE]

Agree and disagree. It is true that the internet has ruined some smaller and lesser well known spots just as some books have. This happens a lot with trout fishing too.

But, Montauk is Montauk and always has been. I've only fished it 8 years, but I've never been there on a good day in the fall and been further than 15 feet from the guy on either side of me.

The flyfishing guide business at Montauk has definitely picked up over the last couple years. Probably due in part to the internet, but I think it's just as much an offshoot of popularity of flyfishing in general. Try fishing the Beaverkill in the spring. It is definitely the Montauk of the trout world and it's been getting worse every year for 10 years.

There are some advantages in regards to better and cheaper equipment but, I seem to use more expensive stuff every year anyway. Also has been a trememdous help in terms of conservation. I'd rather have it the way it was 15 years ago (pre-River Runs Through It and the internet), but that's just me.

Rich

[bigblue]

Addendum to yesterday's post: I moved away from him and watched him get skunked. He watched me hook a nice keeper. Ha!

[Stonyflyer]

Yea Bige things have changed since all that time has past
and the river ran through it. By the way I know in another
post I call Maclean's book a classic but I really didn't like it
very much. Funny just after this movie came out a DEE
Jay friend of mine who is well known called me because he
had just seen the movie and wanted to go flyfishing. He
was adamant about giving him a on stream lesson. So off to the Conny we went. I'm not the best teacher to have when it comes to flycasting but I have to say this guy was the worst person I ever had on the stream. I tied on three consecutive flies and on three consecutive casts he managed to get
hung up on the trees. We did manage to get a trout or two on the line. The next day on his morning broadcast he said
he had the most amazing time flyfishing. I never took him
again!!! I fished the Beaverkill back a few years ago and
one of my fondest memories was going to see Harry
Darbee at his house and talking to him about fishing
the Margaree river up in Cape Breton. As a boy that's where
I had learned to flyfish. Two old Scotsman took me under
their wings and taught me the ropes. I think alot of people
don't appreciate the rich history that flyfishing has had. Art
Flick was another innovator to the sport and a really nice
guy. Anyway sorry for the ramble.

[PhilDKreal]

This is what people should be doing.

Golf. It's a great game. Man I hit a tee-shot the other day.....awesome!!!

And chipping? God what a rush! Nothing gets my adrenaline going like a good chip!

This is what we should talk about instead of fishing.

Then again they are building too many golf course already.....

[peteD]

Stony,

The Internet has been an invaluble resource. For one simple reason. It allows fishermen who don't even know each other talk and share experiences about fishing. All the people who fish make it great, not bad. I've been to Montauk when its shoulder to shoulder and by and large most people are great. Once in a while someone gets a little overly enthusiastic. But where else can you walk up to a complete stranger and strike up a conversation.

I don't know Tuna, Joshr, Howie, Frank or anyone else who gives a report, if I bumped into them on the street but these guys are tell me and anyone else who cares to read how the fishing is before I have to travel out there. I don't care how many people show up, there is always room. Without the Internet and this board I would have never met Mike, who lets me fish with him on his boat, or Pete from LI who sent me a right korker after I lost mine.

Trust me, there are more good guys who fish than bad, even when its over crowded.

Just had to add my $.02

[PhilDKreal]

Good post pete .

[Stonyflyer]

Hey Pete,
I agree with you that the internet is a great place
to share and learn new information. My post was more about
reports that are spot specific. You say you don't mind fishing
shoulder to shoulder but I'd say that's the minority opinion on
people's preference. Have you had a local cop come up to
you while your getting your gear together and tell you that
you can't park here anymore? You tell him you've been
parking here the last ten yrs and no hassle. The reply you
get is "you maybe okay but others are parking illegally on
people's property and peeing in the bushes in full few of
families. Yup posting of private areas have led to the above
behavior. Though Green Island is public it is a good example
of how easy access and advertising really trashed a nice
place. As far as the guys you mentioned I'm sure there all
great guys but that wasn't what my post was about.

Striper

[FishHawk]

Good question. Up here in Mass we have Monomoy . It too has suffered from the publicity. However, you still have to know how to fish these crowded areas. This is the age of information and there no secrets anymore. I agree that one should just post general information and protect those areas that cannot withstand the pressure. FishHawk

[peteD]

Stony,

I understand what your post was about, and I respectfully disagree with you. Did the cop make you move if you were parked legally? Was he courteous, and were you? I'll bet you were. My contention is that most fishermen are respectfull of the law and each other. There are few bad apples, but I believe they are the minority, and yes, spots are becoming more crowded, but its not only because of the Internet. Look at the growth in LI or any other beach area.

This same arguement has raged on other boards. I understand your point, but I don't believe its true. I think that reports help those of us who actually fish the surf more than they hurt us. Sometime ago someone posted on another board two words which erupted in a flame war. Bug light. Anyone who fishes the Hook knows it. People went off on the poor guy. My friend fished it the next day. Not a sole was there, and he nailed bass up to 40' inches.

Reports on forums are the only honest place to get reports of any value and I personally hope those who post them will continue to do so.

[venture]

Even before the computer was invented, neverless the internet, Montauk was a zoo. I can remember weekend bluefish blitzes in the sixties when the it was shoulder to shoulder from the light house to Jones reef. Fights on the beaches, and muggings in the parking lots.

And the Beaverkill's popular pools were a zoo before the river ran through that. It's been a zoo since the seventies. That's thirty some years ago my boy. And Darbee, well he gave up on it long time before that, and fished the Delaware near Hancock and the privately owned stretches of the Debruce club, not to mention his beloved Willoweemac. He wouldn't wet his boots in Carns. That's also well before computers.

If you want to blame something that has worsened Montauk in the past ten years maybe you should blame Jose Wejebe and Flip Pallet. They're the culprits. Now, Montauk is filled with so many "wanabees" with flats boats turning the surf into the Bahamas. Couple this with the technology that has has made owning and opperating small boats much more affordable and accessable these days. And how fashionable, complete with poling platforms too, just like Jose. Now, not only can't you find a place to stand, and if you do squeeze in, there's no where you can cast.

But the same special spots that many have escaped to over the past forty years, in order to get away from the crowds, still exist. And posting them on the internet will never change them. Places like Squibnocket, Zacks Cliffs, Philbins Beach, and Gay Head will never have crowds, and will produce much better results than Montauk ever did. These places are a little harder to get to and take some time to get to know. A little risk is involved, yet the rewards are great.

And remember, Montauk is on the end of an Island that is connected to that largest city in the world. You can choose to fish there, or anywhere else. It is your choice. But by putting some extra time, planning and traveling, you could be on your one of these special places with no crowds, not even a soul, just fish.

Howie

[Spigola]

I have to agree with Stonyflyer. I have been fishing in general about 45 years now and fishing Montauk for about 40 years. I have also fished both sides of Long Island extensively.

Yes, the Internet has been harmful to us "old-timers" out here who used to be able to fish and park our cars discreetly and not disturb the neighbors in the vicinity.

I for one will never again post, anywhere, a specific place I have caught fish. If I want to share it with a close friend, there is a telephone or private e-mail. I try to keep a close relationship with a few fellow fishermen and women and I respect their privacy and they mine. If we share with each other, it ends there.

The last thing I want is for special little area, especially where parking is at a premium, to turn into another Turtle Cove or Jones Reef.

Yes, the parking is available at Montauk, but that too has become nothing but another tourinst attraction where it is difficult at best to fish some of the easier spots. I for one, and I am sure there are others out there, don't seem to be able to range as far as I once did on the beach, I think it has to do with something called aging, and it annoys the hell out of me to drive out there on the advice of fishing friends only to be greeted by wall to wall casters. Never mind flyfishing, which is my true love today, I can't even squeeze in with my surfrods without endangering my own life.

And, I am sure that the upsurge in the flyfishing phoenomena and the greater availability of striped bass is a wonderful thing, financially, for tackle shops and charter captains. However, telling everything, and everyplace, to all who have a computer is absolutely ridiculous. Why don't the people who make these posts about where the latest hotspots are stop and think about who is reading them. Today, everyone seems to own a computer. The lalst thing I would want is having some rude, obnoxious person going to one of my little spots and arguing with a landowner or local gendarme, thus spoiling it for everone, including ME.

Forget it Newbies. Stony, you got it right. Generalities suffice, specifics never. This internet speaks to too many people and some of them are not very nice.

Just my .75

Spigola

[Tuna]

I don't know if I would call it a newbies versus an old timer thing. Not even sure which side of the hill I am on (fishing for 40 years on LI - sounds like a bit too long to be a newbie, a bit too short to be an old timer). It seems more and more to be an issue of how and where you fish.

I am, no doubt, the worst offender on this forum in terms of posting specifics about my fishing trips. I post every trip, and I provide obscene details.

Although I post on other boards, I do not post specifics on any of them any more because of the strong resentment it generates.

I do post specifics on this board because of the small community that has grown around it, but I question my effect on recreational fishing as a result.

In the spring, I fish places by boat that are not crowded. I have posted the results of my fishing for years. These places are still not crowded.

In the summer, I fish places by boat that are not crowded. I have posted the results of my fishing for years. These places are still not crowded, although I am seeing a few more boats there because of my posts.

In the fall, I fish Montauk by boat, and a few other places that are not crowded. Montauk was crowded before I started posting. It still is. (Tongue in cheek) Here's a secret I'll get slammed for - in the fall, there are a lot of fish at Montauk.

If my posts do crowd out a spot I like, I will enjoy using the boat to find new places. Even if I did not work, I believe it would take me the rest of my life just to complete learning the east end of LI.

As I have read and participated in threads of this sort on various boards, I have come to appreciate both sides of the argument, but I have also come to the conclusion that this has a lot to do with how and where you fish.

In a way, folks who fish from shore are the ultimate fishermen among us. Boat owners like myself have it easy. Posting reports of where fish can be caught be caught from shore can have a real and sometimes major impact on how crowded that place can be after the report. There are fewer shore fishable spots than boat fishable spots. I understand some of my reports include information that references places fish from shore. Although I understand why this may upset some people, I consider it no secret, for example, that bass sometimes feed in Turtle Cove.

Oddly, I do not post specifics in order to help other folks find fish (although it may help some). I do so primarily because I want others who know the area to get a picture of what happened. I do so also in the hope that others will do the same, so that when I cannot fish a spot, I may have a chance to get a picture of what the fishing was. Its the closest thing to having been there. And, OK, I am full of myself and like to write (I had a boss who nick named me "Tolstoi"), but mostly its to paint a picture, one clear enough so that others can almost feel they were there.

In doing so, I have come to meet many new fishermen who fish some of the same areas, from whom I learned many things. Things I would not have learned if I had merely communicated with people I already know. Yes, the communities that grow around boards like this can have some negative effects, but we live in a world of constant communication and there are some very positive effects of these communities that grow too. As we are not about to stop this trend of on-line information, I look to the good from it.

Things will continue to get more crowded over time. I will try to be a bit more conscious when posting about spots people fish from shore. However, I really can't accept the idea that people don't know, for example, that bass sometimes feed in Turtle Cove in the fall, so I will continue to make such references. No offense to who I consider the true ultimate fishermen, those who remain closer to the sea by not floating on these things called boats.

[peteD]

Tuna,

I am a primarily a shore fisherman and I loved reading your reports. Knowing that fish are at Goff Point, if I was fishing Nappy, was always a help in my decision where to drive at 4:00AM, and trust me there was no mad rush to those spots when you posted. I for one look forward to reading them again when ever you write.

[fmw]

This is getting ridiculous. I wanted to avoid posting on this topic as I found it silly. My thoughts merely echo Tuna's and Pete's. This site has done nothing but help me become a better fly fisher, meet a few nice people and learn about fishing on the East End.

Tuna: Keep your posts as detailed as ever, its obvious from the posts on here over the years that many people look forward to reading them on Monday mornings.

This site has led me to some pretty damn specific fishing spots which after they have been revealed, have still been empty.

It is no secret that Montauk is crowded in the fall: it always has been and always will be. The other East End fishing spots that are often mentioned on this site are unpressured and I expect always will be despite how often they are mentioned. Many of the crowds on other websites, like Noreast, simply don't fish around East Hampton and Amagansett and haven't the foggiest idea of what Accabonac Harbor or Sammy's Beach is.

This site is a great small community of a group of people who are willing to share their experiences and I hope it remains so. I kind of resent anyone telling me the limits of what I can or should put in a fishing report. Maybe those who find it offensive can protest by not going to the hot spots I mention.

[Stonyflyer]

If some of you guys feel presently that the internet isn't
affecting your area that you fish keep posting and
in a matter of time things will change. Look at the
nbr of reads on posts and you will find a great nbr of
lurkers who go from board to board checking out
specifics. Because it hasn't happen to your particular
swatch of water or spot of sand doesn't mean that it's
not happening elsewhere or will be coming to a town
near you soon.
Tuna posts great reports and this site wouldn't
be the same without his talent of turning a fishing report
into a great read. Whether there're spot specific or
not is up to the poster. I don't consider this post subject
"silly". It's a legitimate concern and by the nbr of reads
on this thread it seems to be a matter of interest to more
than just a few. Being thoughtful before you post is the
consideration that is being asked. Fish on and let the
legendary stories be told.
Stony;)

[Tuna]

I also don't think the thread is "silly". Its an issue that comes up on all the boards, and its something we should all think about. I do intend to keep posting (and about actual fishing when I do it again, brr this weekend looks like it would be cold on the water I have turned into a wuss), but I've done some, and a few others have done some, posts which could have effected fishing the spots that are not yet crowded, they could become more crowded, we gotta balance this stuff.

The thing I have been focusing on is shore spots - if I knew the names of the rocks and nooks and crannies at Montauk, I would not name them.

Even though I name my fishing spots, I rarely point too specifically to my spring spots. Yea, some folks know what I mean by "4 docks" and some folks who don't may figure it out. Same for my favorite Ram Island spot.

Hey Dan, if you are reading, use that new boat to figure out Robbins this spring. I am looking forward to learning Peconic more this spring, just in case I shoot myself in the foot with my big mouth and long posts.