Rudder or not

[Peter]

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Question: Assuming you are getting a sik....would you want rudder or rudderless. Seems like a rudder would be useful to control your drift and/or help you follow a good sized fish you may have hooked. Thanks for your opinion

[SamRiley]

Rudders are very helpful, especially when it come to strong wind. If it is an option I'd get it.

[joev]

I wont buy another yak with out one.Even the 120 Tarpon I will be getting will have one.

Once you get used to it its second nature correcting your line.Dosent help to much in the drift but for trolling and cruising its the best.


JoeV

[ruge13]

Get it. They are great for reducing weathercocking especially in currents. I don't know that fighting fish is that big of a deal unless you are tight with rocks or some other obsticles like docks, but they do allow you to angle in currents.

Wes gave me a good piece of advice early this year, "don't depend on it because sooner or later it will break, learn to paddle without it"
Well I have never had mine break but I have had to flip it up for varous reasons and it is a different feeling that might surprise you.

[SamRiley]

Another Rudder Tip:
Pull it up before trying to do a surf landing. If the rudder is in the water it will give the waves more purchase on your tail end, swing and roll you. Learned this the fun and wet way :D

[Wes]

I don't have a rudder on either yak but only because I'm obstinate, cheap and lazy. They're good to have.

Shaun
Some guys with sea kayaks cross their rudder cables. Have you ever heard of that? Idea is you would make about the same motion as you would if you didn't have a rudder. Straighten one leg (sweep side) and raise the knee up under the deck on the other. I like it, in theory at least.

[ruge13]

No I havn't heard of that but it seems like a good idea. Seems that by making the total number of movements a muscle needs to learn and memorize less you would be faster to recover from anything unexpected...ie muscle memory for strokes with and without the rudder versus one set of strokes for both. I might have to try that....thanks

How is that done? I know if I just crosse the wires on mine that the angle the wire exits the guide hole from the deck that with the crossed wire I would be rubbing into the plastic around the hole. This I would think might eventually cut in. Maybe the use of some atatched small pullies to reduce the angle and eliminate the rubbing on the deck? As of now, the wire in blue comes almost straight down with no abraision. If the angle were there, as in the second blue line, the rubbing might cut the hole. The green line is the pully idea...
Its a good thing I am not a graphc artist...man thats pitiful.

[Wes]

Hmmm. Not real sure but you might have to completely re-rig cables on some boats. I think it's not done above deck near the rudder, rather in the rear hatch between where cables exit aft bulkhead and before they head up thru deck. Are your cables in flexible tubing from abt yr calf all the way to where they come out the aft deck? I'll try to find the source of this devilish idea again, I forget where I saw it.

[SamRiley]

Originally posted by ruge13
Its a good thing I am not a graphc artist...man thats pitiful.

Better stick to mutual funds Shaun:p

Wes - that's an interesting idea. Would probably help out with balancing in a hard turn. When it comes down to it though, a rudder is just no match for the power of a paddle blade. How about you and I hit the Watch Hill swells to demonstrate our turning "prowess" while Shaun records the whole thing from shore with a laugh track going. Bet we could even sell tickets :D

[Wes]

This is a good link. You may decide it is a bad idea or not worth the trouble.

mariner kayaks link (http://www.marinerkayaks.com/mkhtml/rudmanuw.htm)

Lot's of good stuff if you poke around a little.

[Wes]

And another little bit found and snipped. A little expert opinion of unknown reliability and completely out of context

" I think you’re absolutely correct in saying that it would be a more natural movement if the rudder cables were reversed so that you can turn left by pressing your right foot forward, and not the left – and visa versa of course. The only slight concern would be how the reversing would be done.

Off the cuff, I think it should be fairly easy to add a couple of small pulleys to the front bulkhead so that the R.H. wire can be taken round to the left side of the foot pedal. However, there are so many different rudder systems and so many things that may clutter up the front bulkhead – like foot pumps, soft foam etc. that you’ll have to check out your kayak carefully before you decide what change in the system would work most satisfactorily."

[ruge13]

Yeah mine is in flexible tubing all the way back. Sam does have a good point though, the balance would be there in turns or bracing versus the usual overcompensation for the lack of leg support. Now do I want to do the work??
Sam - the hospital didn't get my resume??:confused:

[Wes]

Sam, I can guarantee something to go with a laugh track, just got to see me in a wetsuit.

Shaun, thats what I liked abt it, too. You get to hang your off side knee under the deck same as you would in a leaned turn if you didn't use a rudder. I was thinking easiest way would be if you could cross the cables inside the tubes in the aft hatch. I think that's how they did it the first time I read about it but can't find that piece again.

[ruge13]

Mine are 2 separate tubes run along the inside chines on either side. If I were to go back to change it, the small pullies on the outer rear deck would probably be the way to go but I would worry about the strength of the pully. I would probably kick it right off the deck. I wonder why alot of kayaks aren't built with crossed cables to begin with because given what you and Sam have said, it seems like a superior design for balance. Must not be too cost effective to build

[Wes]

Hey I got it Shaun.
Just cross your legs! :D
Don't know why nobody thought of this before.

[ruge13]

Actually I am going to lay on my stomach and slide in backwards...

[SamRiley]

While Wes assumes a meditative position and Shaun is busy smelling the sweat and fish guts on his seat, I'd opt for placing two pulleys on the stern just as the cables exit the tubes. All you would have to do is figure out some type of chafe guard for where they cross but it should work well and would only require drilling two holes.

[Wes]

While Wes assumes a meditative position and Shaun is busy smelling the sweat and fish guts on his seat
I guess we all tend to go with what's comfortable for us.

I still like the 'switch the cables inside' idea if it's feasible. I envision the cable tubes like those you'd see on a bicycle deraileur, must be wrong. Is it impossible to free up the the tubes from the chines? Are they molded into the hull?

[bluewatr]

Hi guys,

Although I have only been kayak fishing a few years and have owned only one yak, I agree that a rudder sys is essential....

I have experienced exactly what Sam said "If the rudder is in the water it will give the waves more purchase on your tail end, swing and roll you". I have not been rolled but came close once....There are times you definately don't want it in the water...

I have been told by more then one instructor to first learn with the rudder out of the water...

Also another thing to be real carefull of is not allowing the fly line to get to close to the rudder. If the line fowls up in it you will most likely have to beach it to get it out to avoid damaging the coating of your line. This happened to me once... Don't know how but it did (dummy me)... The running line's coating got a nice nick in it.. Luckily it was an old line and had more then served it's purpose...

[RJ]

Wes,

Are you messin with Shauns head or just pressing the envelope of the famous K.I.S.S principle?

Tank the good Lord I have a PUNGO! "I don't need no stinkin rudder!"

When I want to make a power turn in the P-GO I toss out the anchor and paddle like crazy! Works every time!

RIBill taught me that manuer! It's the best! He uses it to make that hard right turn going out the Quonny Breachway with the tide-a-honkin!

Three weeks to Spring!

:-% :-% :-% One for each of you! Salute!

No fair Riley! Your picture almost makes sense! Shaun, he gives lessons on that neat looking diagrams stuff! Cheap too!

[Wes]

RJ,
I think the true originator of that anchor manuever was the M/V Bright Field which took out the Riverwalk Mall in New Orleans in 1996.

And did you notice Sam is frequenting wooden kayak building sites?

[ruge13]

You think I want lessons from Riley?? Here is why they are cheap...look what he submitted for the logo contest..

[RJ]

Shaun,

I stand corrected. Besides, "Self Portraits" are "SO last year!"

:-% Where's Cap'n Bill, I haven't seen a post or an e-mail from him since I shipped him your shirts!

See ya in May!