Montauk / October

[TAkayaks]

I want to line up a guide for an October Montauk trip. What would you choose between these options:

1. a day with poor tide timing (low tide occurs during the fishing day) but with one of the top guides out there and

2. a less experienced guide on a day with better tides.

Thanks,

TAKayaks

[Sedotti]

If things are happenin, meaning if the bay anchovies are still there in mass, tides don't matter. As long as the tide is moving even a little, you're in. So I'd go with the best guide. You know, if things are smokin, like they often are that time of year, you could put a corpse in the boat as your guide and still clean up. Go with the guide, and if you can't book with him or her, then still go, with a lesser known guide.
Mark

[joshr]

As usual, Mark is right on. First of all, low tide during the fishing day is irrelevant for fall Montauk action. Over the course of a day, you're going to hit a slack tide period one way or the other, so don;'t pay attention to the TIME of the tides. But I would pay atention to the moon phase. If you have a choice, go around the new moon or on the back side of the full (but not right on the full). That said, there can be outstanding fishing that time of year on any phase...it's just an odds game.

As for guides, Mark is right again. The fact is, fall run fishing at Montauk is not flats fishing in the Keys. Sure, a few of the guys have a bit less of a herd mentality and will stray from the fleet to find fish in other places when things slow (and that may have as much to do with who is willing to put miles on the boat and burn a bunch of gas as it does with who knows a good place in the backcountry to check for fish if it's slow at the Point), but basically you are hiring a boat and a boat driver more than a guide that time of year. And I am not demeaning the guides (I was one part-time for a bit); they work hard as hell all day. it's just not a type of fishing that separates the heros from the amateurs that much.

--Josh

[joshr]

Oh, one other thing, if you are going for the albie fishing and not just bass, I would avoid the last week of Oct. Some years the albie fishing is strong through the end of the month (and some years even into the first few days of November), but some years it slows considerably or winds down entirely that last week of Oct. Depends on weather and water temps. Also, by the end of the albie season, the fish seem to get more finnicky and also often don't run as hard/long (I guess cause they're bloated on 8 weeks of chowing chovies all day).

--Josh

[peteD]

I agree with Mark and Joshr about the tide not mattering if things are hot, but on the off chance they are slow it matters. That fact that most guides are 8:00 to 4:00 means you probably get one tide swing. For us shore guys tide is everything. Pick a day with a big tide so you get a good ride in the rip off Montauk and also fish the shore at night.

Oct. 26 and 27, new moon, 3.7 tide.

Why would you want a more inexperienced guide unless you know him? They all charge about the same. Stick with good guides that come recommended. If things go wrong they will work to get fish, and not punch the clock at 4:00. The worst thing is paying more than $400.00 to be stuck on boat for 8 hours with a guy that annoys you.

[joshr]

True, Pete, but remember, sometimes the newer guide is the hardest working....and sometimes he's actually the one who's been fishing the area since he was 5. I have fished the Keys with some of the famous guys and some of the new young turks...the turks have provided better service over all.

One thing's for sure, especially in Montauk in the fall, Pete is absolutely right that a guy willing to go hard for a long day is the guy to go with!

--JHR

[zimmjas]

I have to agree about the young guides... they're definitely out to prove themselves. However, Montauk has just got so many great guides to choose from. Most do a real good job keeping you on fish. Basically everyone said it above: A good guide will keep you on fish (sea conditions permitting).

[Albiemanmike]

I would say just get out there, should not matter who you go with as Mark stated that time of the year is hard to screw up even for a less experienced guide. Hey Mark my offer to come out fishing on the boat is still open to you, the Housie was a big bust this year with all of the rain. But I have been doing real well the last couple of weeks around the local mid-sound reefs from Stratford to Branford most all of the fish have been 30" and up which is a nice change from all of the smaller fish of the last few years. I fished the Peconics and Shelter Island area last Tues. (thanks all of the guy's from that area, joshr,Tuna,dollarshort, etc.) and saw some fish but didn't connect with the big girls. What a great area to fish though! Back to TA's question, I would agree with all of the statements Joshr said, but the most important thing isn't how good the guide is fishing wise but how personable that guide is, if you are stuck with a real snotty and arrogant person than it won't be any fun whether you catch 100 fish or one. I took a bunch of guy's from the boards out there last year on my boat and WE all had a great time, I think I may have enjoyed the trips more than the guy's I brought along with me. It was very enjoyable for me to watch these guy's hook into their first ever Albies on the fly, and it brought back those first feelings I had when I first started to target them on the fly. I am trying to get my license this year so that I can be more comfortable about taking total strangers out on the boat, I never charged anyone before so it cannot be construed as guiding or fishing for hire, but it would be nice to make a little gas money back when I do it in the future. I am like the guy's Joshr mentioned it is not uncommon for me to put 80+ miles on the boat in a day and if I do get my license in time for this Albie season my day starts much earlier than 8:00 am. I guarantee it!!! If you have trouble getting someone by the fall give me a shout striper@optonline.net and I will make arrangements to get you out on the Albies, I have some real good out of the way spots where we can get away from the maddening crowds and still have good shots at the fish. Mark shoot me an email so we can hookup and do some fishing, I am always alone and would enjoy your company very much, you pick the spot or me doesn't matter, have trailer will travel:D

Tightlines,
Mike Mayo

[mctrout]

all things being equal, then pick the one with the nicest boat (like mine)http://www.steigercraft.com/main/docs/boatdetails.cfm?boatid=11

or the one with the nicest legs (like hers)
http://www.urban-angler.com/pages/amanda.htm

[Albiemanmike]

McTrout,
Very nice boat..............Indeed! They came out with that boat after I bought my Triton and I was immediately in LOVE! What a great boat for what we do in the Northeast. Plus Lenco Trollin Tabs standard equip.That boat has some of the prettiest lines I have seen in awhile. Amanda is definitely #1 in the looks dept. out there for sure, plus she is a heck of a nice person to boot. She took time out last year while on the water to stop and say hello to a total stranger (me) and I thought that was impressive. At the time both of her sports were hooked up at the same time and she had an ear to ear grin. She also has a very nice boat (Seacraft). I will look for you on the water this season maybe I will see you and will get the chance to say hello? Of course if you are heavily into fish with clients I will have to wait until another day:).

Tightlines,
Mike Mayo

[mctrout]

Hey Mike- What happened to your tin boat? do you remember meeting me at the Watch Hill reef. I was in my Mako 17 flats boat? belive we chased ablies for awhile together.About 5 years ago. I still try to get to Watch Hill a few times a year. hope all is well and come by if you see me out there for sure
Brendan

[Frequent Fly-er]

Hi TA
If you want more than nice boats and nice legs may I suggest going to www.PFLGA.org. This is the site for the Professional Fly and Light Tackle Guides Association. Besides really nice boats and really nice looking men and women the PFLGA represents the cream of the crop when it comes to guides. All guides must meet standards set forth by the association and be recommended by another guide in the association to join. Check out the guide listing on the site and you will see the same guides names you read about in print and see at the shows. Each and every guide is a true professional, conservation minded and will give you 100%. In the event a missunderstanding does arise you can take the issue to our chairman Capt. Scott Holder or one of the board of directors. You can't do that with other guides. Hope this narrows your search.
Good fishing,
Capt. Ken Courtlangus
"Frequent Fly-er"
PFLGA board of director

[Albiemanmike]

Brendan,
I did not realize that you were McTrout.......:confused: Nice to hear from you, and man that is a much nicer boat than your older Mako!!! Definitely stepping up a bit. Of course I remember that day, I have been fishing around there for a long time and the fishing is always good at that time of the year among others. I still have the Tin Boat for now but I got a 20 ft. Triton CC in Oct. 2001. What a great boat it is, so much more comfortable than the old tin boat, but I did catch alot of fish out of that old Lund. When did you get your Capt. license?? I have been looking into getting my license as well, it would be nice to put all of the knowledge I have gained to some good use, I really enjoy taking other people out in the boat and showing them how much fun it is catching fish, especially in all of the areas that are always talked about on these boards. Give me a shout sometime and maybe we can hookup again for some late season Albies and Bones, also the Bluefin (schoolie) should be making another appearance this year off of Newport sometime in July or August, I went out there last year and got 2 skipjack on the fly. Man if you think Albies are a hoot you should hook into one these babies. They make the Albies look like the minor leagues in comparison. The fish are usually 5-10 mi. off the beach in Newport and very reachable in your new boat, we had a little fog to deal with last year but with GPS it wasn't too much of a problem. The skippies were schooled up on the surface and waking like bunker do when they are being pushed, we just had to find the wakes in the calm water and cast into them. Fished yesterday off of Branford CT. and did real well, the bass were on top chasing small bunker (5-7 in.) and they were showing off some incredible surface action. They would chase individual bunker around smashing them on top until they caught them and made them disappear. I got fish up to 38" and had some fish in the upper 40" class following hooked fish back to the boat. I stopped at the New Haven breakwalls and picked up another dozen fish or so with the biggest going 36" & 37". Talk to you soon.

Tightlines,
Mike Mayo