Premium Reel Advice

[Sentience]

I currently use an Orvis CFO V. This says "Saltwater" on it and it was marketed as such at the time. However, it doesn't seem like they even sell these reels anymore. If they do they specifically say that they are freshwater reels not meant for saltwater. I have to say I feel a little burned by this switch because I doubt they really changed much in the reel. I think they figured out that it a) isn't a great saltwater reel or b) they could push people to buy the vortex or whatever. I was happy with the reel at first but I become less and less so as time goes on. The drag failed last week. etc. etc.

So this is my question:

I think I might take the plunge soon and buy one of the more premium reels for sale. The cost of these reels sends me right into sticker shock though. I look on ebay regularly now and was wondering what people think of this. It seems to me a lot of (rich?) people use their reel once and then want to sell it.

Secondly, what reel? I am interested in the Tibors, Orvis Vortex, Sage and Van Staals. I like the weight and measured drag of the Sage. I like the drag system and (relative) price of the Van Staal. etc. etc.

Any imput would be appreciated. I would rather not do a formal poll here. Any other reel suggestions would be welcome as well.

Thanks.

[formula1]

I recently added a Van Staal to my collection and I am pleased with it, used it in the Keys a few weeks ago. According to a test one of the sites conducted, the Van Staal was one of only one or 2 large arbor reels tested that had 0 extra start up drag (i.e, start up drag was equal to running drag). That's pretty impressive...It's quite light and seems durable so far.

[Conveyor Man]

I am cheap and clumsy and I couldn’t bring my self to buy a high end reel. I would be more worried about bumping it around than I would getting to the fish. I bought a Scientific Anglers System 2 Reel on the recommendation from a friend and I like it very much. If you can spend the big bucks and still relax with it than there are clearly fancier reels out there but I would put a vote in for a work horse reel with a few bucks left over for something else...Just a Thought

[Quicksilver]

What size and species of fish will you be targeting?

[sage fly guy]

Not to be mean or demeaning, but avoid Van Staal like the plague. They may not be around much longer.

Several quick reasonably priced choices would be below. By reasonable I mean up to $500.00.

Old Florida-Fantastic reels for the $$ check out SUPER ARBOR
Bauer-Capt Nugent personal favorite
Valentine-nice anti-reverse with 1.5 multiplier

Just my .02

[bone doctor]

Personally, If you ever come across someone whose selling an Islander LX 4.0 or 4.5, jump on it. I use this reel and feel that it's one of the best reels on the planet. Extremely light and very durable with a very smooth drag. Last a lifetime, but you'll pay the price.

[flysupplies]

> Secondly, what reel?

DD or LA:

Old Florida or CA Harris = premium quality at affordable prices.

AR:

Right Angle.

Or like you said, find some rich guy going back to golf <G>.

Regards,

Bob
Fly Supplies
aflyshop.com

[Sentience]

This is really helpful. Thanks. To answer the question. I'd be using on 9 weights to catch the usual shore fish of New England - up to 50 lbs. :)

[mctrout]

Tibor or Abel. you can't compare anything else except chalrton which are big bucks. I use nothing but Tibor on my guide boats and nothing can be beaten-on harder and still work flawlessly for years. I have been given lots of other reels for free and they have all crapped out except the Tibor which I have to pay for. You can get ones on Ebay for abotu 40% off or call Urban Angler at 212-979-7600. they sell more of them then anyone around
good luck

[sage fly guy]

Abel is a fine reel, on interestring side note it has the exact same number of parts as a OLD Florida. Odd Old Floirda has been around for 30 years, Abel????

[formula1]

Originally posted by sage fly guy
Not to be mean or demeaning, but avoid Van Staal like the plague. They may not be around much longer.

Several quick reasonably priced choices would be below. By reasonable I mean up to $500.00.

Old Florida-Fantastic reels for the $$ check out SUPER ARBOR
Bauer-Capt Nugent personal favorite
Valentine-nice anti-reverse with 1.5 multiplier

Just my .02

Can you elaborate further about Van Staal? They were just bought up by Shimano, I don't see how they will "not be around much longer" unless you envision Shimano either 1) eliminating the brand (does not make business sense at all considering they just purchased the reel), or 2) Shimano is in trouble and may be going out of business.

From what I see, the quality of the reel is on par with most other reels out there (I mostly own Abel's and Ross)...

[Too Fly]

I don't want to knock Islander, plus I know someone who loves 'em. They are fine reels, but I was told of one that had crapped out and broke into the unwanted "free spool mode" with a tuna on the other end. Hence, the drag failed.

Has anyone ever heard that Chartlon reels have had the same problems with the Offshore series? I have the 8450C, so I'd never try that reel on a tuna larger than a bonito. Again, this is only what I've heard.

I like Tibor and Abel, and own them both. But I've had problems with the spools on the Abels squeaking when paying out line, even after greasing them up.

Paul

[JonH]

abel or tibor stay away from old florida and islander ya they been around for a long time....but with the two years i was working in a fly shop i got every one back that i sold due to defective parts......islanders spools lockup and seize the reel....seen that happen over a half dozen times.....abel and tibor by far are the ones you should look at they take a F@#KIN beatin and keep on tickin.....

and if you don't agree your wrong
end of story:eek:

jk

jon h

[peter mac]

Hey,
For the under $400 market you can't beat the Ross Big Game series, greatreels. I use Ross for all trout and saltwater inshore fishing, striper, blues and albies.....High end, Tibor is the call here, the Gulfstream is an amazing reel, as are all the Tibors.
Good luck,
Peter Mac

[sage fly guy]

Shimano aquiring Van Staal makes as much sense as putting the jelly in the same container as the peanut butter.

But I could be wrong.

[formula1]

Why is that? The world economy is one where many companies buy out others, or merge, in order to gain capitalization as well as increased efficiencies of manufacturing. Van Staal quality was inconsistent in the past - according to my friends who were long time buyers of their spinning reels, the reels have become very consistent in quality now that they have gained manufacturing knowledge and processes as well as capital funding for r&d. You see this all the time - Ford acquires Jaguar, Fiat buys Ferrari, and the bought out company reaps the benefit of having access to modern manufacturing technology - the only place where this has worked to the detriment of the product is Microsoft buying up a software companies because they are *too* big and it elminates competition this way.

[deano]

I really like the Charlton 8500 for the use you're talking about. It has 2 parts - spool and frame - and the only screws are on the reel foot. This reel has perfect anodizing and machining. It has accurate, repeatable drag settings and a super smooth and very stout drag that is completely sealed. I have a fishing partner whose 8500 has caught several hundred Little Tunny every year for the last 4 years, at least 2 dozen Tarpon of 70 - 140 lbs, and even a few Yellowfin. That reel still looks, feels, and performs like new. He swears by them. I liked some high end reels that I had been using for years but he was nice enough to let me use his 8500 - once - and I was sold. I have never heard of any confirmed problems with any of the Charltons (except for some prototypes years before Chars hit the market). Of course, many large fish have been caught on Medalist so you really have to decide if it's worth the $$$ to you. IMHO...

[formula1]

Not trying to knock Charlton, I think they are great reels as well, but I have heard/read of at least one person on another flyfishing board who had one go bad on them (I think it was along the lines of either the drag free spooling or locking up) and it wasn't a prototype. I don't take this as a negative as I doubt there is a single product ever made in large quantities that has not had a defect somewhere but then again the Charlton is certainly not a reel made in large quantities.

Also, there was a test that one of the flyfishing sites conducted on large arbor reels where the drag specs they got from testing the Charlton 8450C was middle of the range at best (7.2% startup inertia, 7lb 2oz max, quite a reels beat those specs, particularly startup drag). Smoothness of drag is hard to quantify when you start getting into high end reels (using your hand or a fish to measure it is about as accurate as adjusting a Rolex watch with an air wrench...), you really need good electronic instrumentation to tell you if there really is a difference in drag smoothness between all the top reels. I seriously doubt the Charlton has a smoother drag than say an Abel or Tibor, or even a Van Staal...but that said, I would not ever, ever dissuade someone from buying one. I've bought sports cars all my life which make no sense other than the fact that they have 600 hp and 200 mph capability - and I barely dirve them more than 1000 miles a year, not a whole lot for nearly a $100,000 vehicle that is largely, in practical sense, a waste of money but I *love* their esthetics, feel, and pure beauty...

[albacized]

Originally posted by Too Fly
I don't want to knock Islander, plus I know someone who loves 'em. They are fine reels, but I was told of one that had crapped out and broke into the unwanted "free spool mode" with a tuna on the other end. Hence, the drag failed.

(snip)
I like Tibor and Abel, and own them both. But I've had problems with the spools on the Abels squeaking when paying out line, even after greasing them up.

Paul

i have an islander#3 (standard arbor) and it's a great reel. however, if you loosen the drag knob too much, the spool can actually snap out of place and go into a freespool situation. fortunately, i discovered this at home and never had a problem in the water. i must stress that when i say loose, i mean 1 or 2 turns from the knob coming off. i have an abel#2 standard arbor as well and like it as well (although i find it a little small to reel in quickly-like when an albie is coming back at you).
Rich N

[stevec]

DON'T BUY A VAN sTAAL UNTIL THE COMPANY WORKS OUT THEIR SERIOUS ISSUES!! THEY ARE IN A SERIOUS FUNK!


I have a Lamson Velocity 4.0...love it! can't say enough about it! I have a Tioga 10 on order...heard good things abou that also.
Old Florida, Teton, Islander. See which one balances well with your rod.
I would love to buy a Tibor Everglades....but thats a mortgage payment for me! Can't do it yet--125-3

[formula1]

Again, I would like to hear what these "serious issues" are. One of the things I dislike about boards is that people frequently make broad stroke statements with nothing to elaborate or explain...kind of like spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). Not saying you are trying to do that, but as a fellow flyfishing enthusiast, I'd like to know what makes you say this...

[stevec]

Call the company and find out. I hear many guys cannot get reels fixed because there are no parts avail. No parts avail because the company can't or won't produce them.
Nobody to fix the reels either from my understanding.
If this is not enough info for you, like I said earlier call the company.
They are not proviiding any type of customer service at this time. You want to buy into that by all means go right ahead.
Hopefully, they will get back on their feet soon and begin providing service to these poor guys who own these reels but can't get the parts to repair them

[deano]

I don't have any experience with any Charlton's except the 8500, 8550C and 8600. A fishing buddy of mine has been involved in reel testing (he's in offshore tackle design/testing - including fly gear) and has told me that the 8500 - 8600 Charltons set the standard for the strongest (most lbs capability) drag for fly reels. He also stated that the start up inertia for these reels was comparable to the Abels and Tibors; I remember that it was not zero but I believe he told me less than 3%. He also told me that the drag settings were so accurate that you could mark them in 1 lb increments (off the backing and where arbor diameter will change the least as line is taken) and return to that setting each time and it would be identical. In fact, he said some bluewater fisherman do that with the Chars so they know how much drag they have on a fish. I know the guy with the 196lb Bluefin record (boated in less than an hour w/ an 8550C) and he has told me that the 8550C was a big factor in beating that fish. I'm sure that the smoothness is no better than an Abel or Tibor but there are several features of the Charltons that I can't get in any other reel. So, as you mentioned, you get what you like.

[formula1]

Originally posted by deano
I don't have any experience with any Charlton's except the 8500, 8550C and 8600. A fishing buddy of mine has been involved in reel testing (he's in offshore tackle design/testing - including fly gear) and has told me that the 8500 - 8600 Charltons set the standard for the strongest (most lbs capability) drag for fly reels. He also stated that the start up inertia for these reels was comparable to the Abels and Tibors; I remember that it was not zero but I believe he told me less than 3%. He also told me that the drag settings were so accurate that you could mark them in 1 lb increments (off the backing and where arbor diameter will change the least as line is taken) and return to that setting each time and it would be identical. In fact, he said some bluewater fisherman do that with the Chars so they know how much drag they have on a fish. I know the guy with the 196lb Bluefin record (boated in less than an hour w/ an 8550C) and he has told me that the 8550C was a big factor in beating that fish. I'm sure that the smoothness is no better than an Abel or Tibor but there are several features of the Charltons that I can't get in any other reel. So, as you mentioned, you get what you like.

It would have been nice if that site had done a test on the 8500-8600 series as well...but I think it's telling that the 8450 was tested along with other reels in the same class and the standards (Tibor and Abel) tested at 2.3 and 5.3% startup respectively, with max drag of 11 lb. 1 oz and 12+ lb. respectively as well...IOW the Charlton had higher startup drag and less max drag than the 2 (what I consider) standards in saltwater fly reels. I would love to buy a Charlton, but I spend enough money on my cars that I can't justify buying a $1300 reel to my wife when a $600 reel would perform as well, LOL.

[Too Fly]

I love my 8450C, but it doesn't have very much line capacity, so it's pretty much designated for my 6 wt. The craftsmanship and type 3 anodization are beautiful. In my opinion, Tibor nor Abel really compare.

I came really close to buying an 8600 once(I know, crazy), but decided not to at the last moment. One huge drawback is that the reel is nearly three times the price of other high-end reels. The other problem I had with it, which can also be a blessing, is that the drag is completely sealed. If anything were to fail with that sealed drag, you'd likely be out the reel for a good portion of the Northeast's fishing season.

Paul

[deano]

I ordered an 8500 from my dealer and when it came in I saw (what I considered to be) a small flaw (dull area) on the finish of the spool. A fishing buddy of mine looked at it and said "you're too much of a perfectionist". I called Charlton and got Jack Charlton (yes, you get him personally sometimes) and he said "send it to us". I overnighted it to them and they overnighted a new spool to me - less than 48 hours down time. I have a lot of faith in their customer service because of that. But, I do believe that is the way it should be, especially with top end equipment/companies. That is another reason I'm sold - especially these days.

[Quicksilver]

I fish mostly with a Lamson LP-4 so I don't have much to add to this thread, (although I own a Pate Tarpon). Highest end reel I ever fished with was a dual clutch Seamaster. Great reel. The finish was almost like jewelery. I haven't heard anything bad about Tibor reels. Charlton reels are supposed to be the best. If you were to go with a Tibor I think the Riptide would match up well with a 9 weight. You might consider putting a hundred yards or so of gelspun backing on the reel for that fifty pounder.

[formula1]

From what I've been told, Sci Anglers is probably going to discontinue the Charlton reels in their current incarnation because they are not making enough profit on them as well as they are too difficult to manufacture (they are very labor intensive to make). On another board their was speculation that Sci Anglers would probably continue the Charlton name but probably redesign the reels to make them easier to make and lower cost as well. I was playing around with the Charlton's at my local fly shop and I was tempted to buy one but if I can't get parts in the future, then it is hard for me to outlay that kind of cash on a reel that won't be covered by warranty sufficiently (i.e., I don't want to have a problem and have them send me a subsitute, lower cost reel in lieu of repairing it).

I have researched the Van Staal reels and at this point I'm not sure what I will do. I don't want a reel that can't be warrantied...or have problems getting warranty support...yet I do like the reel design, it is, IMO, a very nice, esthetically beautiful reel with an excellent drag. I may end up selling it and getting a Tibor Riptide or Abel Super 10 instead...good thing I'm getting a few grand refund on my tax return next month, lol.

[deano]

Formula 1,

I've never heard such. Sci anglers bought out Streamworks (including Charlton) last year. I don't know why they would do that just to discontinue a product line. 3M has a good reputation for customer service as well...

[formula1]

deano, go to Dan Blanton's board, the specific link to the thread is:

http://www.danblanton.com/Messages/10531.html

someone there states that Sci Anglers has ceased production of the Charltons as of last May, and that they will be redesigning them. I don't know his source, but I *do* know that Dan Blanton does not allow rumors to be posted on his board and deletes anything that is not substantiated.

[Soundking]

In the process of owning a few abels, a riptide, and 8500 and 8600 signature series I can vouch for the fact that charleton is hands down the best reel made. I have landed a multitude of very heavy and very explosive fish such as bft, yft, blue marlin, black marlin, sailfish, roosterfish, wahoo, kingfish, tarpon and others on the 8600, and it was a pure gem, I could precicely and accurately apply both breaking power and leverage without palming the reel, and the dial is so amazingly smooth that litlerally fractions of an ounce can be applied with each little niche, and I firmly believe that is exactly how I landed these fish in a relatively short ammount of time. I think formula1 can apprecaite it when I say that it is like holding a Vanquish in your palm when looking at it, hands down the best fly reel made.

[formula1]

I absolutely can appreciate a Charlton - I've held them, played around with them...and I figured one day I would own a few of them...unfortunately, with what I've heard about the new ownership from Sci Anglers, I'm not going to commit $1000 or so for a reel that might not have support in the foreseeable future.

[peteD]

I own 8500 .8 Charlton and its an outstanding reel. I once had it break open while fishing a rock of Montauk. Like deano I sent it Charlton and Jack personally replied to me that he never saw that happen. He immediately fixed the reel. I've heard that Jack left, and is now back. Beside an unbelievable drag, the fact that it is completely sealed it what clinched it for me. I beat the daylights out of my equipment.

I'm now looking for a 12wt reel. I've been told that the VS is an exceptional reel and I'm considering it. I'd like to find a Steelfin Vario 120. Does anyone have any experience with them?

[peter mac]

Hey Pete,
Go Tibor Gulfstream, it will work for those schoolie BFTs up on the cape, as well as tarpon fishing.

Peter Mac

[sage fly guy]

PETE D,
IF YOUR REALLY INTERESTED IN THE STEEL FIN VARIO SEND ME AN EMAIL OR PM

[formula1]

The VS seems like a very nice reel (I assume you're talking about the Van Staal) but I've heard that the company is undergoing the 2nd change in ownership at this time so right now they can't accept reels for warranty or repair till the sale goes through. 2 changes of ownership in 1 year make me nervous as I don't know what the mindset of the new owners are - putting high quality, or high profits first. I've heard another post on another board that the VS has thin anodizing which is not good...and that supposedly they are using metal in the screws which can cauase corrosion in the reel. I haven't been able to find documentation to confirm or deny this...I do know that the sealed carbon drag has 0 start up intertia which is very good.

[sage fly guy]

Odd, seems 2 pages back someone mentioned that Van Staal was headed south, now who was that individual???

[formula1]

I don't know if they are headed south - change of ownership is not necessarily a bad thing. Just that they are in the midst of change and I don't like to be left holding the bag if the new owners are not good. It could just as easily be a good thing but I'd rather stay on the sidelines to adopt a wait and see attitude. I would hope that the new owners, having paid x dollars for the company, would not want to ruin the VS reputation which in the long run would cost them money instead of make them money, but commonsense does not always prevail in the business world.

[sage fly guy]

In order for the current ownership of Van Staal to keep above water they had to charge a rather large yearly service fee and couldn't keep up with service backlog. Creating a huge backlash from otherwise loyal customers. Sending in your $40 every year for a supposedly maintenance free reel, not including parts which could push you're yearly service fee to about $75.00 is outrageous for a $500.00 reel. Mending those fences with existing customers some of whom own a 1/2 dozen of the reels will be painstaking at best.

From what I've heard 1/2 dozen perspective buyers have toured the Van Stall facilities and left shaking their heads at a quick pace. Again just what I heard.

[ikan besar]

I agree with the complaints about Charlton reels: I find all of mine to be too black, too round, and the drag much too maintenance free. If any of you would like to get rid of yours, I'll provide the service of taking them off your hands:D

[formula1]

The latest I've heard from my local fly shop, which is one of the largest distributors of Van Staal is that the new owners are a group of investors, one of whom was part of the current group of owners but was unhappy with the way the current group was handling the entire business so he left and formed his own group to buy out the current group. Supposedly he is very much an enthusiast.

As far as Charlton, my local shop said all the reels they had in stock would be the last of the them as Jack Charlton has been kicked out and Sci Anglers/3M has closed down the manufacturing operations for the foreseeable future. As of right now there is no warranty service available for any Charlton reels.

[ikan besar]

Warranty service for Charlton reels is most definitely currently available. The whole opperation has been moved from Burlington, WA, to Midland, MI. They have plenty of parts to complete any repairs needed. They can be contacted at ph.989.496.1100. Feel free to inform your local dealer.