EEZ and the IFZ

[al_Sahaf]

Greetings, Infidels...

All this talk about opening the EEZ to striped bass exploitation...is GOOD NEWS! All I can say is it's about time. But, as usual, in your parochial, narrow minded, infidel thinking, you have not gone far enough. The striped bass fishery is fully recovered. Why not share it with everyone equally??? I am not just speaking about the recs and the comms that you talk of. I am speaking of your friends all over the world...Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, and even your good friends in France.

The EEZ was originally passed and signed into law in 1976, the Magnuson Act, as it was then called, established the U.S. 200 nautical mile limit. It also created a system for the monitoring and management of the fish stocks in these waters and set in motion a process that eventually "Americanized" the fisheries, allowing American vessels and companies to take over harvesting and processing from the fleets of other nations.

This was not fair. It is time to make up for this past injustice...after 27 years of selfishly hogging the fishery for your own; it is time to open it up for ALL. The Magnuson Act requires the U.S. Congress to periodically review or "reauthorize" the Magnuson Act to keep it current and to address new or persisting fishery management and conservation problems. It is time to review...and NOT reauthorize the Magnuson Act.

I propose it is time to establish the IFZ...or the Infidel Free Zone... from 3 miles out to 200 miles off your coasts. Now the other nations of the world that were unfairly shut out of your fishery for the last 27 years would be able to reap the benefits of your fully recovered striper fishery.

Do not listen to the politicians that will oppose this idea.... they always depend upon a method what I call, in a word, stupid, silly. Do not listen to them. All I ask is you check yourself these facts about the Magnuson Act. Every word is true, I triple guarantee you.

As you say, "What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander." You infidels have many peculiar sayings, I must add.

Al

[h2p530]

Al Sahaf you are the man . thank you for being in Baghdad doing whatever your doing there you got bigger ----- then I . The only thing that I see wrong with opening the eez to all Is security. I spend almost 75% of my time on or under the water, after 9/11 I realized how much we took things for granteded . If thay can come up to 3miles thay can come in all the way. Other then that great post.

[flatts1]

al_Shraf,

I like your style but the US keeps its territorial waters closed to foreign countries for three reasons.


1) Landings destined for foreign ports would be impossible to track and account for.

2) Opening them would take away American jobs.

3) Commercial fishermen from foreign countries have demonstrably ravaged the ocean. Allowing them to fish our territorial waters would only validate their past practices.


Regarding the third point, take Tuna for example. Tuna are a HIGHLY migratory species. They are somewhat protected while in U.S waters due to reasonable regulations. However, the U.S can't protect them when they leave our jurisdiction.

The following is an excerpt from The Cape Cod Times and it highlights this problem.


Cape Cod Times article titled Europe's bloated quotas root of our tuna problems dated July 6, 2003

The biggest problem in tuna world, as most American tuna fishermen see it, is the enormous number of tuna and white marlin illegally caught by fishermen from Spain, Italy, and other European Union members.

These nations have shown no inclination toward better monitoring of their fisheries, and have indicated time and again they do not seem to care that they have no control over their tuna fishermen.

Groups such as East Coast Tuna Association have been trying to make this point for years. They've finally succeeded - thanks to Jim Donofrio and the RFA, according to East Coast's director Rich Ruais.



The following is NOAA press release dated May 23, 2003. I have bolded the comments that illustrate how other countries are sorely lacking in fisheries management.


NOAA Fisheries’ Chief of Scientific Programs Responds to Nature Article on National Public Radio

On May 20, Dr. Michael Sissenwine, head of scientific programs at NOAA Fisheries, was a guest on NPR’s Kojo Nnamdi show (WAMU, 88.5) along with Dr. Ransom Myers, a Canadian researcher who headed up the scientific study on fish populations published this month in Nature Magazine.
The study, which gained widespread publicity in the United States last week, highlights global problems of overfishing of the highly migratory species – such as sharks, swordfish, and tuna. Dr. Sissenwine responded that the report’s implications focus on the importance of sound marine fisheries conservation and management.

“Generally, the study demonstrates that industrial fisheries, if unregulated, are capable of rapidly fishing down fish stocks. The declines that are described [in the study] largely occurred sometimes as much as 50 years ago before there was any significant fisheries management of ocean fisheries. Since then, there has been a significant growth in the nature of fisheries management and the governmental arrangements that exist, ” Sissenwine said.

He pointed out that humanity cannot harvest the oceans and expect to leave behind a pristine environment.

“I think it is valid to point out that fisheries are capable of depleting stocks rapidly, and this is why we need fisheries management in place to prevent overfishing. In those cases where overfishing has occurred, we need to rebuild. I think it would be unnecessary to overreact to the warning that the problem exists without understanding that in fact there are lots of measures being taken – a very aggressive U.S. regulatory program as well as world-wide – to address them,” Sissenwine said.

Dr. Myers agreed. “Mike is right that in many areas of the U.S., aggressive management has worked. But world-wide, fisheries management has largely failed,” he said. Myers went on to point out that fisheries management has not been tried in many areas of the world, such as Canada, because of politics.

“When fisheries management is used and used effectively, there is not a concern about the biomass reducing biofactor of 50 or even 60 or even probably 70 percent. But it’s where this effectively unregulated or weakly regulated system takes place that I’m particularly concerned about -- the open ocean where the large pelagic sharks are a serious conservation concern and all the data that I’ve seen shows these rapid declines that are continuing to the present, ” he said.

Kojo Nnamdi asked, “Dr. Myers, this study did not specifically recommend any solutions, but it seems to imply that what you’re really talking about here is more effective fisheries management world-wide, otherwise we’re in trouble.” Myers said his concerns are more about issues outside the U.S. where the issues are not being addressed.

Dr. Sissenwine talked about how the U.S. is working globally to improve international problems of overfishing and is aggressive in strengthening international agreements and performance of other nations for fisheries conservation.


“The difficult challenge is to adjust the size of fishery industries that depend on fishery resources so they are in harmony with what the fishery resource can produce. If we can do that, we will find that all of the people who remain in the fishery will be better off and society will have more fish on the table at a lower price. Unfortunately, it’s a difficult social, economic, and political adjustment to make,” Sissenwine said.

Sissenwine concluded by talking about how globally, governments concerned about ocean resources will continue to keep the pressure on to get adequate conservation of fishery resources.

“It seems that the bottom line is, while we do have a problem, fisheries management can ultimately solve it, Nnamdi said.


That all said, I still think we should open the EEZ to all those from Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, and all other countries (even France) That is of course so long as they fish it as sportfishing tourists paying American charter captains. :D


Later,
Mike Flaherty

[kwakr]

Ummmm, Flatts, I think he was kidding. Fab research though.

[dewey]

hey al seheff im all for an ifz zone then all the foreign boats can come over and joint venture with us. open up the eez and loosen up the commercial restrictions on stripahs <then hopefuly n.j. will allocate a commercial quota for stripers> .Then everyone can benefit WORLD WIDE and have striped bass on the menu all over the world. BUT it that ever happened , but kinda doubt it will, but its a nice thought anyway, and really theres no reason why it shouldnt happen ..Joint venture happens allot mostly for mackeral and herring, where foreign ships come into all of are waters and take transfers from u.s. commercial vessells. then they carry them back and eat them all over the world. However i dont feel foreign ships should be able to fish in us waters , just take transfers from u.s vessels.
Thats a great idea open the eez then turn it into an ifz and let U.S. commercial vessels reap the benefits of a fully recovered striped bass fishery. That way people all over the world can eat stripers. U know most everyone in the u.s family tree is made up from all over the world so it kinda hard to argue just because you live in IRAQ doesnt mean u shouldnt be able to eat fish from us waters.
SO that being said AL thats a great idea i never realy thought about it, im all for it.

[kwakr]

Hey Dewey,
I think I heard Hughie and Louis calling you. Time for you to go home now.
Seriously, I know al_Sahaf is kidding, but I have a troubling feeling you are serious.

[dewey]

Originally posted by kwakr
Hey Dewey,
I think I heard Hughie and Louis calling you. Time for you to go home now.
Seriously, I know al_Sahaf is kidding, but I have a troubling feeling you are serious. MR KWAKR , mr alsahef has a valid point ,he beleives <as i do too> that striped bass has made a great recovery.MR al says he would like to share it with people all over the world, OK thats a fine idea. Its being done all the time. im just pointing out 1 way it could be done The first step would be opening the eez, #2 would let new jersey commercial sector have there share of the pie < so to speak> #3 would be how to figure out how were going to transport all over the world and one of the cheapest and freshest ways of doing that would be a joint venture. U.S. COMMERCIAL FLEET transfer stripers at sea to foreign ships.
Seriosly MR KWAKR i doubt any of us will ever see that happening but it would be nice to see NEW JERSEY commercial fisherman get there share of the quota that we so fairly deserve.:) :) :)

[kwakr]

Dewey
Mr. al_Sahaf is making a joke with his posts. He is using a form of humor known as satire. He is a funny fellow indeed. His point is that the striper fishery is NOT in fact fully recovered at all, and that the only people who really think it is are commercial fishermen and their families and close personal friends, along with a few fisheries officials who used to be commercial fishermen or live next door to them. I am beginning to think that you too are making a joke because I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it is a rational thought to export striped bass all over the world.
Just so you are not confused about my position, I favor putting an end to commercial fishing for striped bass everywhere, including Iraq.

[dewey]

MR KWAKR, there are many people that feel the way you do. I am verry interested in knowing why people feel that way and would enjoy hearing more if you wish to discuss it with me.I live and work out of new jersey and have never made 1 penny off the sale of striped bass and feel sorta cheated by that.Theres talk of opening the eez and i would not benefit in any way shape or form by that, but that might be the first step in getting new jersey a commercial quota, which is encouraging to me.what makes you and many others that feel the way u do minds tick . is it because your greedy, ignorant,want the ocean all too yourselves, what ???? Tell me why there shouldnt be a responsible harvest of striped bass. whats it going too hurt. Remember i said responsible harvest.Do you think its fair that myself and many others that work on commercial boats in new jersey cant even bring 1 home for the dinner table. That doesnt seem right to me.
please explain to me further if you like
dewey
:)

[kwakr]

Dewey
To best answer why I and tens of thousands of recreational anglers want to see commercial fishing end for stripers, I direct you to "The Case for Game Fish" on the Stripers Forever website.
http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/gamefish

You are a commercial fisherman and I am not. That probably dooms any agreement between us on this topic. It doesn't mean that either of us is ignorant or greedy, it simply means we disagree on this issue. I and most of the folks I fish with rarely keep a striper, although we catch many of them. I and most of the folks I fish with use fly or spinning tackle with single circle hooks. So what? That's how we like to do it. Others like to fish with bait or large treble hooked plugs. God bless them. They may fill their recreational limit every day. That's OK too. That's what the limits are for.
For every commercial fisherman targeting stripers there are perhaps 300 recreational anglers doing the same. So why should the commercials get 40% of the harvest? Why should they get any? We're not talking about monkfish here. We're talking about the #1 favorite saltwater fish!
I don't believe for a moment that stripers are a "fully recovered" fishery. I live in northern New England and I can tell you unequivocally that the number of fish in our waters is less than it was 5 years ago, not more. It breaks my heart that Massachusetts pinhookers killed close to 60,000 spawning size bass in the just closed commercial season. Those are the fish we know about. They probably killed at least half that number with fish less than 34" that were released, and who knows how many large fish were caught by commercially liscenced fishermen that weren't reported at all? It was a lot of fish, you can be sure.
Read the article I gave you a link to. It spells out my side of the story. I already know yours. There really isn't a right or wrong answer to this issue. It really comes down to the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Until now recreational fishers have been disorganized and fragmented, and we still see a lot of that in these forums. The commercial industry, on the other hand, is like a well run labor union. There may be small numbers of commercial fishmen but they speak with one voice and thus make a lot of noise and get a lot of attention.
Well, the tide is turning and the recreationals are starting to make a lot of noise and it will get louder and louder. Some of the posters on boards like this one will finally stop saying "yes....but'" and will climb aboard the striper game fish initiative and the rest will be history. Please don't think that stripers are the first of many fish the recreational sector wants to take over. That is not the goal at all. Stripers are simply too valuable to too many people to allow a very few to kill a huge number of them so that they can get $1.60 a pound or whatever.

[dewey]

mr kwakr ,i am a very open minded commercial and nothing is doomed between us in any healthy debate, i would just like a reasonable explanation of why the recreational sector should be allowed to have the whole pie. DO YOU NEED TO have a fishing rod and a bunch of plugs to be able to enjoy a striped bass dinner. How about the people that live inland and dont like to fish shouldnt they be able to enjoy rocks on their plate. MR kwakr please dont say the answer to that is hybid stripers, come up with a better answer. i am learning more about rec fishing everyday i read sites like this, WHY DOESNT NMFS make the circle hook a striped bass law if you say its easier on the mortality rate of rec fishing, i think thats a great idea if you say that helps. I think im going to raise that question at the next council meeting. I dont fish the inshore waters very often in northern new england, but in new jersey i see an abundance of them . I thank you for the link and will read it in a bit so maybee i can understand more on this issue. By the way 1.60 lb sounds pretty good to me. the only fish that i get that much $ for is maybee seabass. theres many problems in my buisness and low prices are one of the bigest.
you say its the greatest good for largest number of people, well i feed very large numbers of people all over the world and i feel thats good. If you feel making striped bass a game fish isnt greedy and alot of other words i have to describe that then please try to make a fourth generation comm fisherman understand why it should be done. <game fish>:)

[kwakr]

Dewey

I can only direct your attention to the previously refernced website to answer your questions. I don't expect to convince you, a 4th generation commercial fisherman, that you shouldn't be allowed to harverst a fish that appears to be very plentiful. I can point out however, that stripers have appeared plentiful before and have then nearly disappeared. I have every confidence that this would happen again if we don't take drastic steps to reduce the pressure on the fishery. Step one is to take the price off the head of the bass.
Best regards.

[Sokinwet]

Lets see now.. the same group of marine fisheries biologists and managers who brought the striper back from the brink using scientific methods, monitoring and quota controls can't be trusted to continue to properly monitor and evaluate the fishery for the benefit of all?? I guess they can't be trusted to factor in all the illegal activities of all of us "commercials" Maybe we should all wear black hats so that all of you self righteous, self appointed experts can keep better track of us! P.S. With gas @ 1.75, boat slip @ 2K, college tuition @ 25K, etc. me and many of my "pin hooker" friends appreciate the opportunity to use our skills at sb fishing to help defray the costs for pursuing what in most cases is also our passion. Don't forget those who participate in the rod & reel fishery also buy gas, lures, BAIT, boats, etc. and contribute to the RECREATIONAL fishing economy. --123-3

[kwakr]

Lets see now..... so a group of "passionate" fishermen, representing perhaps .008% (less than 1%) of all Massachusetts bass chasers, should be applauded for removing perhaps 60,000 prime breeding stripers from inventory. Meanwhile, the other 99.2% of us can fend for ourselves.
The same group of fisheries biologists and managers you find so enlightened also monitored and evaluated the fishery to near disaster a few years back, and who's to say they're not capable of doing it again?
So you've got a lot of bills? Who doesn't? Burger King is hiring.

[h2p530]

Hello gentelmen sorry for missing a very nice conversation my modem was zaped during friday nights lighting storm.
The only two cents that I would like to add is that it is not fair that only one user group benifits from a public recorce. I know for fact that commerical harvest works because states to the south are living working proof that it works one state just gave me 10 more tags.I had nothing to do with the killing of these fish that happened more then 25 years ago. I was only 9 just dreaming of making sets,so why blame me .How about the early 80s when everybody went gillnetting in the DEL bay because of miss managment I can't fish in the bay. Alot of those guys were rec fisherman who were cashing in on a buck, who went back to their land jobs when the trout were mopped up. I'm being punished for that .
All I want is this State to play on a level table . thay should make it FAIR FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kwakr]

You want a level table? OK, here it is. You can catch and keep two fish, and I can catch and keep two fish. We can only catch them with hook and line, and we have the same size and bag limit everywhere on the Atlantic coast
That kind of ends the so called user group issue which is pretty controversial anyway. How can you seriously say there are two user groups when one is 3,000,000 plus and the other maybe 30,000. How is that fair?

[h2p530]

Mr.kwakr If I were to keep two of the fish that I caught on a jig do you realize what could happen to me and my boat? thats what isn't fair . what are these numbers that you are posting?

[h2p530]

Originally posted by kwakr
You want a level table? OK, here it is. You can catch and keep two fish, and I can catch and keep two fish. We can only catch them with hook and line, and we have the same size and bag limit everywhere on the Atlantic coast


That kind of ends the so called user group issue which is pretty controversial anyway. How can you seriously say there are two user groups when one is 3,000,000 plus and the other maybe 30,000. How is that fair? Mr kwakr explain to me how their aren't two user groups,In this state NJ one group is allowed to harvest the other group isn't allowed to harvest or posses . The commerical quota was taken by the" powers that be" and turned into a" rec trophy tag fish" fancy name for third fish.That my good man is not a fair playing feild, But this state wants its fees for permits that I must purchess every year.Once again I'm left to think why isn't there a Rec sport fishing permit . Hmmmmmmm

[Sokinwet]

Kwakr - My guess is that you are one of the new enlightened breed of fishermen who have taken up the sport recently. No tackle but yours is proper; no opinions but yours are correct and nobody has a right to catch your preferred fish but you. As sombody who has commercial fished stripers for almost 40 yrs. I can honestly say that the old days of filling the box with 16" bass for market is not something that I would do or support today as it certainly did contribute(along with pollution, over development, etc.) to the demise of stripers in the 80's. Management by those that you ridicule brought the bass back from the brink and continued scientific, not emotional, management of this resource will ensure that it remains for all users. Striper fishing did pay for a couple of years of college for me and I hope to at least buy a few books for my son with commercial fishing $'s over the next few years. I thought about the Burger King thing but I just couldn't bear the thought of upsetting all those Peta people who are trying to save all the cows. ;)

[h2p530]

Mr.Sokinwet very clever name dare I say. Your last post was excellent, I wish that I could have gone to collage, maybe I'd know how to use this computer.

[Sokinwet]

H2P- Can't claim credit for the name; it was my dad's boat name 30 yrs ago. It was a pretty appropriate name for our old 16' starcraft aluminum ( the center console of those days..Vinyard, Pigs & Sows, Woods Hole, Quicks Hole, Horseshoe Shoals.. no problem!) and still has a little meaning on nasty days with the 20' Seacraft. My dad, an MSBA surf veteran and Pin Hooker from the 50's, is still going strong at 81, fishes every week and has already taken a number of big fish this year. With commercial season over I have to convince him to release 34"+ fish. Must be genetic! :p ;)

[kwakr]

Well Sokinwet, you guessed wrong this time. I'm older than dirt and have been fishing for over 50 years. I've used all kinds of tackle and have settled in with fly rods to see me through the rest of my days. You sound like a fine fella and a good fisherman. I don't want you or h2p530 (whatever the heck that is) or Dewey fron NJ to take our disagreements personally.
You won't change my opinions on this topic and I don't plan to change yours.
I do believe that the days of commercial fishing for stripers are coming to an end and I think that's good. Getting recreational anglers to agree on a national agenda has been like herding cats in the past, and to some degree, it still is, But we're beginning to see that change and there are a whole lot of recs out there. Many of them feel like they've been getting the short end of the stick for a long time and in some coastal areas, they have. I can understand the frustration of the commercial fellows in states closed to the taking of stripers commercially, but there are other fish for them to target where there is little or no argument over allocations (at least among comms and recs).
I am glad the striper fishery has treated you well in the past and I hope you decide to abide by rec limits before you are forced to.
Tight lines

[Sokinwet]

Truce! As the saying goes "We can agree to disagree" Nothing like a little spirited discussion to keep things interesting! P.S. I hope you have a good sinking line; pretty deep in most sections of the EEZ!

[h2p530]

Mr sokinwet I think that its great that your dad still has the drive to go on killin sprees from time to time. I too have an old guy in my camp he wae the king of the cod fish in cape may back in the day. Now time is catchin him he hangs all of my nets for me.{boy does he have some stories} he's the best.
Mr Kwakr that is find that you don't want commerical guys to harvest rocks. Although I do have one last question for you,
Whats going to happen when this species whipes out the rest of the food chain.Do you know that crab stocks have reached an all time low in both bays DEL,CHES. are trout and coakers and other highly migrtory species going to be next? I think that its a sad state when people think that the ocean is for them and them only . I will continue to feed the good people of the USA as I have done for the past 15 years . What I do for a living is an honest living and I am proud of it !

[kwakr]

h2p530
If striped bass were going to wipe out crabs or bunker or anything else, it would have happened eons ago. That old gal, Mother Nature, can handle the situation. Up in Maine the lobster fishermen were squawking that the bass were eating all the lobsters, yet the harvest for lobsters continued at all time record levels.
I hope you don't feel that I have it in for commercial fishermen. I have a huge amount of respect for the fierce independence and work ethic of the professional fisherman. I simply believe that striped bass should be protected from further commercial harvest. Period.

[David Churbuck]

The post about striped bass (aka "rocks") endangering "the rest of the food chain" is the funniest thing I have ever read in a conservation forum.

I have come to the conclusion that h2p530 or R2D2 or whatever his name is, is a comic genius.

All hail the feeder of the world!

[h2p530]

Mr.Moderator once again you poke fun of the Name that you have given me . hmmmmmm.
Mr kwakr If the lobster men are having such a banner year then why are thay gettin paid so much a lbs? thank you for not lowering yourself to bashing their aren't to many honest professions left out there.

[dewey]

HELLO MR SOKINWET, do you have the same strong views that mr kwakr have. if the opinion of the link that mr kwakr gave me is that rec fisherman think that the mortality rate of striped bass is higher than stated for catch and release. meaning that more rocks dont survive the treacherous endangerment that a hook and a fishing pole provides.

i have a great idea i think that noone should land rocks until we all can ... what do u think mr sockinwet:) :)

[dewey]

hello mr h2p530, i see u been buisy while i been gone. hey buddy theres croakers in avalon slew i know your probably not interested since your getting ready for the hospital but there there i seen them today. there not worth much i was told 9 cents.. i think ill let them live a bit longer cause i dont want to kill them for that price. im going to keep my eye on them, maybee when you get back from hospital thell be worth a bit more and maybee you can give your buddy tims that ride that he wants so bad... do you think i should give our buddy tim that ride on a bunker boat that he desires so greatly, been thinking about it but not really sure it will do any good. what do you think???:-% :-%

[h2p530]

nobody has explained to me why only one user group is allowed to harvest these fish.I don't think that we should be made to buy permits untill EVERYBODY is made to buy permits.If NJ had a rec permit the state would be out of dept.thay beg for .35cents every 14miles. 10. to 15. dollars isn't that much to ask for a years worth of free dinners.
I received 2 emails from him tonight told tim s 2 to 3 weeks maybe mr. dave the moderator would like to join us.

[dewey]

HELLO MR KWAKR. have you caught any fish the past few days. tight lines thats a good thing. IT MUST BE EXCITING WHEN YOUR LINE STAYS TIGHT. its probably a good feeling i would love to catch a rock on a pole . i never have. i might try it this fall. how much is it going to cost me to get rigged up. ???? couple hundred bucks??? what kinda hooks do you suggest. i want the enviromental safe ones...but i cant do it on my boat because i have a net on it and that would be illegal. the last time i ate a striper was about 3 years ago and i guess that was illegal because we ate him on the boat, i couldnt bring him home and let my family enjoy it because that would of been risky, come to think about it my family have never had a striped bass dinner because i never bring them home.. we usually enjoy a nice seafood dinner about once a week, mostly fluke, scallops, seabass,, things like that but never a striper. well i have a family of 4 so i guess its going to cost a few bucks to get rigged up just so i can enjoy what you have been enjoying for years.. that kinda sucks because its been tuff going lately whith all this cold water this summer.


MR KWAKR I LOOKED AT THAT LINK YOU PROVIDE AND felt that it was a verry weak stand on this issue.. your older than dirt i would of hoped you could of gave me more insight on this subject, but if thats all you have thats not much. still searching for more reasoning on this issue because not happy with that reasoning where just because a handfull of recs < a verry large handfull> can enjoy rocks on their plate and the rest of the population cant because its not provide for them in the right fashon. well 300 recs with a fishing rod can enjoy them, i kinda wish i had 300 tags so 300 more people maybee not as well off as you can enjoy them as well.. i guess youll think that im a greedy comm looking for persoal gain $$$ but not looking at it any other way>>>

[dewey]

Originally posted by h2p530
nobody has explained to me why only one user group is allowed to harvest these fish.I don't think that we should be made to buy permits untill EVERYBODY is made to buy permits.If NJ had a rec permit the state would be out of dept.thay beg for .35cents every 14miles. 10. to 15. dollars isn't that much to ask for a years worth of free dinners.
I received 2 emails from him tonight told tim s 2 to 3 weeks maybe mr. dave the moderator would like to join us. hey h2p530 no kidddinnn tim still wants to go.. did dave the moderato show intrest too ... i havent heard dave the moderator bash the comm side yet and kinda just feels hes in it for some kinda money or pollitical reasons, with such a strong stance on this game fish issue.. but i honestly think that tims is really in it for the money because i said it before and ill say it again ignorance sells fishing rods.. im really thinking about sending the invitation but still not quite sure will you come with us h2p530:-%

[h2p530]

we haven't even touched the monies aspect of folling with a fishieries yet . Lets just look at the small picture.boat deckhands owner old guys that make the gear",boat share" the dock collage kid that unload fish cleaners, fish broker the driver."the dock" resturant chief, waitstaff owner. the list could go no and on . sure lets keep it on the endangerd list longer that way one user group can benfit.The Rocks aren't endangerd the fisherman are.thats the truth about conservation!

[h2p530]

Originally posted by dewey
hey h2p530 no kidddinnn tim still wants to go.. did dave the moderato show intrest too ... i havent heard dave the moderator bash the comm side yet and kinda just feels hes in it for some kinda money or pollitical reasons, with such a strong stance on this game fish issue.. but i honestly think that tims is really in it for the money because i said it before and ill say it again ignorance sells fishing rods.. im really thinking about sending the invitation but still not quite sure will you come with us h2p530:-% you better belive it as long as mb and ib can post on sol again.

[Sokinwet]

Dewey - Strong views like Mr. Kwakr yes..same views..well I think we both like to catch fish; its what we do with them after we catch them that seems to cause a difference of opinion!! I will say that after reviewing some of the posts and various links I decided to check out some facts for myself. Doing a search based on "striped bass young of the year index" I discovered a wealth of information and studies based of catch rate for rec's & commercials, mortality (fishes not mine) y.o.y. index in a variety of test locations, etc. One of the better studies was by NOAA (I think) done over an extended period of time from collapse to recovery. I will try to get the link when I'm at work tomorrow on a faster computer. Made for some interesting reading that I think will enlighten all. (well maybe not all!) In reading some of the posts I was reminded of a story about the old Sox lefty Bill Lee and good old boy Boston politician"Dapper" O'Neil. Seems like Dapper was penning some pretty outrageous letters to the local press spewing his somewhat controversial opinions. Lee being ever respectful of Dapper sent him the following letter. "Dear Dapper, Thought you would like to know..some idiot has been using your stationary!

[dewey]

mr wetinsock, if you show me any noaa studies i hope there isnt nothing from the albotross because that research boat couldnt catch enough to eat... a bunch of highly paid scientists using trawl gear ,, THAT ARENT AFRAID TO FILL UP THERE COOLERS WITH HUNDREDS OF POUNDS OF ILLEGAL FISH BUT THATS OK BECAUSE THERE SCIENTISTS .. i bet there familys enjoy many illegal caught striped bass dinners:confused: :confused:

[h2p530]

Originally posted by dewey
mr wetinsock, if you show me any noaa studies i hope there isnt nothing from the albotross because that research boat couldnt catch enough to eat... a bunch of highly paid scientists using trawl gear ,, THAT ARENT AFRAID TO FILL UP THERE COOLERS WITH HUNDREDS OF POUNDS OF ILLEGAL FISH BUT THATS OK BECAUSE THERE SCIENTISTS .. i bet there familys enjoy many illegal caught striped bass dinners:confused: :confused:


Maybe these gentelmen aren't aware of what took place on the R/V ALBOTROSS, thank god for guys like Mr Ruhle and the other ground fishermen that saw what was happening,and stood up and said something. NOAA reports their not worth starting a fire with. That wasn,t a study for conservation it was more like a study to see who's wallet could get fatter.