Vise Advise

[Johnny P.]

I really want to get begin tying flies, but I need some help picking out a vise. I don't want to pay 2 or $300 for a vise and from what I've been told, it is unnecessary to spend that kinda cash.

Can anyone give me some suggestions on where to begin?? Any good kits available that include the vise and the necessary tools for $150-$200? Should the vise have a bobbin hanger...is it necessary?

Any advise would help...thanks in advance.

[Pauper Piscator]

As with most things, you get what you pay for. My advice would be buy a kit rather than assemble things piecemeal. If you are mostly interested in tying saltwater flies, a kit might not be the most efficient as you will have lots of items that you don't really need. The # of items and material you need for a bunch of generic clousers can be counted on one hand.

So I would say start cheap. The "crappy" $10-20 vices actually WORK. If you get the bug bad enough, upgrade accordingly.

Bobbin hanger is NOT necessary.

Must have items include: Extra bobbins, RUBBER jawed hackle pliers, superglue.

Bottom line, not necessary to drop a ton of dough to get started on another bad habit. You can get yourself hooked and tie 100s of flies for under $100 all together!

[striblue]

Renzetti Traveler... 2 models, the saltwater one and the regular... both in the $120 range.(I think)

[Epoxytier]

same as what striblue said but look on ebay thats where i get mine and i got it 4 $65 THATS A STEAL!!!

[Johnny P.]

Wow...That is a steal! I'll have to check that out...thanx.

[PeteV]

I've been using a Regal pedestal vice for at least 20 years and like it a lot. who knows the cost...its probably considered a crap vice now but I like it.

My vice also handles both very small and very large hooks. I like that since I fish both fresh and saltwater.

I recommend that you think about where you will be tying. my pedestal I can put anywhere and happily tie away. If you get one with a clamp you may have a tricky time finding a spot to clamp it. The pedestal may be a little more but I'm happy with mine.

Good luck & happy tying.

[bluefishercat]

Until the early 70s there was no such thing as a rotary vise. I have a book where Lefty Kreh says all you want is a pair of vise grips welded to a clamp and that's all you need.
But to start if you think you want to tie striper flies I would buy an inexpensive tool kit from cabelas, all you have to have is a vise, bobbin, bobbin threader, scissors. Then I would buy some Mustad 3407 1/0 hooks, a natural deer tail thats a white one, a package of white saddle hackle, white thread,and a assortment of deer tail peices that cabelas has, and some medium lead eyes for clousers. With this stuff you can tie clousers, deceivers, half and halfs, blondes, a basic sand eel. Of course if you really get into it you willl realize that a lot of your first flies are really good for bluefish blitzes. But they will catch fish. The one secret I have learned is Less is better. Good luck Pete

[Quicksilver]

Johnny P.- will you be tying freshwater, saltwater, or both. I think a salt water tier can get by with less stuff. A bobbin holder and hackle pliers are not needed for tying saltwater patterns. What patterns do you fish with?

[mizt]

I got a griffin 2A off ebay for $40 its not pretty but there hasnt been anything I cant do with it. Havent had any other vises but for a rotary one it gets the job done.

[crashfromboston]

i started with a kit about 10 years ago, and once i got my feet wet on drys, streamers, and then jumped up to salt water. once i got to that level of confidence in my tying i purchased my first "real" vise . which i still have, and used up to a year or so ago when i broke a pin that held the cam lever in place. i got the parts. but because i wanted to keep tying that very same day i went out and i bought a regal.. (which is a great vise to work with) holds huge hooks and trebels if you get into building lures .

i have used that for the last year or so but when i got in to production tying i decided it was necessary to upgrade to something faster... now i only dropped 200+ a few for
the vise that i plan on keeping for the duration, i bought a nor-vise from a guy who sells on ebay. and it works like a charm. its not necessary for you to spend this much, i recommend reading and checking out all the different types you can be for you buy .

it is also wise to learn to tie and try other vises before you plunk down a wad of cash on a big name.. go to a flytying group like the united fly tyers who meet in burlington mass, not sure on the night but they are on the web.. take a class thru them.. its worth the travel time and the effort, you will learn a bunch... and you might be able to try other vises.. thats the only real way to find out what you really are comfortable on.. and thats the key here... you being comfortable with a vise..

the kit will get you the basics to get going and tying can get expensive fast, especially if you get hooked (sorry but i had to throw that in).. i have 4 large rubbermaid containers full of materials, hooks, and other misc stuff and can attest to the amount of money one can drop in a short period of time..

[Animal Chris]

PeteV, the regal is about $175 now. I just bought one a couple of months ago with a pedestal and a clamp and I love it.
There is a Regal clone that Cabelas offers for about $40 that's a decent enough vise, but it's not even close to the real deal. If you think you are going to stay with it, spend some extra money now and get a good vise. I also have a Renzetti Traveler and it's a great vise.

[Johnny P.]

In response to your question Quicksilver...I'll be tying both fresh & saltwater flies. I guess I'm looking for a vise that'll tie size 22 hooks to 4/0 or so.

I'm looking at a kit on line right now and looks like a great deal to me. No bobbin hanger; I'm told they're unnecessary, but can't you buy them after market? Here's the kits link:

http://www.dyna-king.com/flyvise_dtl.asp?itemval=7&pv=0&pid=083

Whattaya guys think?

[DbleHaul]

Johnny, that looks like an okay deal. Some of that price is going towards the book and the CD ROM, but the tools are quality. You'll still need to pick up some other materials for saltwater flies as outlined above by some other members.

I'll also chime in with a reccomendation for the Renzetti Traveler....it's about $155.00 right now for the pedastal base with the cam jaws, and I've tied from size 24 up to 5/0 with no problems.

Good luck with your decision, and welcome to a true addiction.

[PeteV]

The Package looks good & a nice way to start.

Here's just some food for thought from an ungifted but adequate tyer.

- Vice: I've got decent quality Basic vice which handles a lot of hook sizes (midges to 4/0 or bigger).
- Tools: 2 pairs of scissors. 1 nice comfortable sharp pair with good points for doing precision work (baby this good pair). 2nd scissors Get a second pair for chopping heavy stuff like Saddle Hackle stems and "Corsair" nylon stuff or other material thats tough to cut.
- "whip finishing tool: tricky to learn but well worth it. sometimes I don't even bother with head cement. The whip finished head is the best for keeping a knot in the line when you tie.
- Thread Bobbin, I've got a bunch of these to hold the different thread. Just look for one which doesn't have a sharp edge where the thread comes out or it will cut your thread and everything will unravel (Thats very frustrating)...so a couple bucks more for a decent bobbin wont kill you.
- Bodkin, I use a paper clip straightened out. its good enough for me...especially if I'm putting on goopy stuff like, head cement or epoxy.
- For reference info... I like Catalogues, Hunters has a great fly tying catalogue with good pictures. or the internet. I realize your just starting so I guess some sort of beginner book is helpful but a class would be the best. They use to have a United Federation of Fly Tyers in Burlington that use to meeet on a weekly basis. Stuff like that is very helpful. My buddy who ran a fishing shop also use to host tying get togethers after the shop closed for the night.

The tools can easily be overdone its more about technique....and good materials go a long way too. There is nothing like nice Hackles or good thread.

Good luck
PeteV

[Pauper Piscator]

I think you can do better. Again, start small and upgrade as necessary. Things like wives, kids, work. bigger better toys etc start taking away tying time fast. I recently bought a 22' boat. To my never ending shame I also bought one of those 20 Rubber shad umbrella rigs to drag around. Flies??

Also, Cabelas sells two excellent kits with all the tools and a nice wooden case too. One is about $15, one is $35. Again, buy $75 worth of materials (that is a lot) and you are in business for around $100.

Here is the link to the Cabelas tool kits.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jhtml?id=0001059&navAction=push&navCount=2&indexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20431

I am so #@!$# cheap! But this stuff is pretty decent for the $$.

[Pauper Piscator]

I think you can do better. Again, start small and upgrade as necessary. Things like wives, kids, work. bigger better toys etc start taking away tying time fast. I recently bought a 22' boat. To my never ending shame I also bought one of those 20 Rubber shad umbrella rigs to drag around. Flies??

Also, Cabelas sells two excellent kits with all the tools and a nice wooden case too. One is about $15, one is $35. Again, buy $75 worth of materials (that is a lot) and you are in business for around $100.

Here is the link to the Cabelas tool kits.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jhtml?id=0001059&navAction=push&navCount=2&indexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20431

I am so #@!$# cheap! But this stuff is pretty decent for the $$.

[Sentience]

You should search this forum for earlier discussions of this exact thing, especially the kit advice. i wrote a long post there.

to sum it up quickly though, i don't think kits are a bad way to get into tying. the warning that follows this is if you get into tying you will soon see yourself quickly upgrading. i use a regal vice and absolutely love it. i would not trade it for anything. it is tight, quick and simple.

[Johnny P.]

I've heard many good things about the Regal, but I guess it's a bit more than I want to spend on the vise alone unless I can get a screamin' deal.

Materials and tools are going to run me out of my budget if I buy an expensive vise..............If I didn't pay so much god &%^$ rent in this town I could afford these types of things.

Anyhow, all great suggestions guys...Appreciate all the help and keep'em comin'!!

[crashfromboston]

johnny,

i saw one on ebay a week or so ago that went for 75$
do a search on there under fly tying and you will get about
50 hits do an advanced search under fly tying vise..

there were about 50+ last time i looked..

good luck

crash

[jswegel]

Try a Danvise - around $ 80. I've tied everything from 20 to 5/0 with no problem. That scissors, hackle pliers and a needle and you're in business for under $ 100.

Happy tying!!

[bluefishercat]

Just remember when you buy this stuff that if you buy a $200 vise and decide you don't like tying flies that I want to buy it for $50. But if you buy the cabelas stuff and enough to tie some saltwater flies, and don't like it and stick it in the closet, you will be out less than if you bought an expensive vise and tried to resell it. Saltwater flies are easier to tie and require less types of material than trout flies, especially dries, and are a good way to get started. You will learn the basic skills and then can try tying the little flies. But then again have you ever tried a 1/0 deciever in a trout stream in the fall? You should.
Pete

[Quicksilver]

Johnny P. - The kit you are looking looks like a nice product. The kit offers quality tools and a name brand vice. The option of a clamp or pedestal base is great. I have a possible problem with the vice. The photo at the website could not be enlarged, so I couldn't see if the angle of the head of the vice could be adjusted. When you get a rotary vice you want it to rotate on a level plane. If one is tying saltwater flies in most cases it is good enough to be able to simply rotate the fly around to check on the construction. If you tie fresh water flies, especially dubbed flies, you really want to have the vice rotating on a horizontal plane. I don't tie too many freshwater flies, but it looks like you might be. You may want to go into a flyshop and ask a few questions, buy some materials, and sit down and try a few vises.

[Johnny P.]

Good point Quick, didn't think about that. I'll have to look into it.

[Saltytyer]

You can also try fliesnsupplies.com. They have a saltwater tying kit which comes w/ tools, vise and saltwater materials under $100.00

[striblue]

I never met a guy who started tying that didn't love it...they may be out there..those that don't ..but plan on buying the best you can so you don't have to constantly upgrade... upgrading is the problem with all hobbies or sports.. you know... the bigger boat.. the better made rod... so spend medium...

[Saltytyer]

But upgrading is half the fun. Did u ever meet a fisherman who didn't. You could possible even bring down the sport fishing industry. I don't want that on my conscience.

[CharlieP]

Damn e-bay can be dangerous. here are a few decent vises for cheap. cheap may appear nice, but for the most part you get what you pay for. once you start tying, you will enjoy it. catch fish on your own flies and you will be hooked. and don't worry about it if your flies aren't the prettiest because some of the fish caught on my flies mush have been blind or starving or both.

have fun,

charlie





http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625235082&category=44916

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625189253&category=44916

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625858194&category=44916

[boba]

Don't worry too much about about what to buy as long you buy from a reputable dealer. I checked out the Cabela's pages and their AA vise looks like a knock-off of the Thompson A vise. I still have my old Thompson (then about $20; now about $50). I started with a knock-off (then about $12)and moved up to the Thompson. Later, I moved up to a Regal; I still lack the free cash to add a Renzetti hi end for fancier flies. After you find out you like tying, then try out lots of vises to see what will fit what you want to tie and what your tying style is. If you live in Mass., it is a good idea to attend some meetings of United Fly Tyers and check out what people are using. Many will let you try their vises so you can see for yourself. Note: UFT offers free tying classes - a real place to learn techniques, as well as quiz people about why and what they are using.
I use a Regal on a clamp (still have the Thompson A and the AA knockoff but use them as fly body dryers for different tying stages, and the AA knock-off sits in my cabin for when I screw up and forget to bring the Regal). I tie in a number of places, so I prefer a clamp and don't like the height limitations of a platform vise (there is lots of argument pro and con on this). I like the Regal for its bulldog ability to hold any hook without adjustment. That doesn't mean you should buy it; I'm hyper and shift around a lot between hook sizes and style, fresh and salt, while tying and don't want to bother with adjustments.
Start cheap and do some research after you get a sense of what you want to tie and what your style is.
The important thing is to have fun and feel satisfied with your most important tying tool.

[Quicksilver]

Looks like a lot of guys use a Regal- me too! The suggestion to go with a Renzetti Traveler is a good one, especially if you can get a deal. There is a nice vise on ebay that should not go for big bucks. The guy who bought it is apparently one of the very few who don't stay with it. Looks like he is also selling his materials, I didn't see any tools though. You need to click on "view sellers other auctions", to see the materials. The vise is an Anvil. I think it retails for $100. Item number for the auction is 3625978353.

[Quicksilver]

One more thing, the auction ends at approximately 9 AM Sunday morning.

[Sean Juan]

Just wanted to give another nod to the Regal...

It does one thing extrememly well - it holds the hook. I've been using mine for a little over 20 years and I can still break a hook shank before it comes loose.

As for other tools...the vast majority of them are geared towards tying trout flies and are generally technique specific - rule of thumb is its better to learn the technique then learn how the tool helps rather than the other way round.

Soon enough you'll start looking at everything - packing materials, your dog, the wife's fur (natural and synthetic) as fly tying inspiration.

[Johnny P.]

Thanks to everyone for your help on this post! Looking real closely at the Regal's and Renzetti...gotta do some saving first.

JP

[crashfromboston]

i also have a nor-vise and a thompson 360 slt, and i would be willing to set them all up and you can tie what you like,
and see which of them works the best for you.. thats your best option for figuring out what you want, but i also recommend trying the renzetti, and any others you can get access to...

i am up in somerville,

fire me off an e mail... i can arrange a time to have you come up.

later crash