which type of kayak shoudl i buy?

[Jacob K.]

so i am thinking f buying a yak this winter. what type should i buy? sit on top? or closed deck?
any suggestions would be great.
thanks
jacob

[G-Man]

That's great.
You will really like the adventure and flexibility of a kayak.

Which kayak you get will come from your own research and testing. I would only fish a SOT for several reason. Many guys only use Sit-ins for other reasons.

Are you just fishing? Planning to do some touring?
Want new? Used? Saltwater...Freshwater? Those kind of question to consider.

Many of us will let you try our kayaks if it will help.
I live in Marlboro Mass...I have a Cobra Explorer and Ocean Scupper Pro TW....welcome to try them if it makes sense travelwise.

I suggest you go to google and search on "kayak fishing". Enjoy the process of figuring out what works best for you. You will find many threads on the "best kayak for fishing" on diff sites.

For what it's worth...my next kayak will be the Hobie Outback.
Good Luck
-Greg

[Sean Juan]

Would also help to give some thought to how you will be using it.

For instance, a lot of the time I use mine as a means of getting from sand bar to sand bar...once there I jump out and fish - so I use a SOT and love it.

I like my FnD because for fly casting I like a stable platform, speed isn't a priority to me - if you want to troll or go long distances sacrificing some stability for greater speed may be a better choice.

best thing would be to hook uu with some guys and see whats out there - there is a lot of variety and it can get over-whelming.

Just make sure the person you are listening to at decision time is yourself - some guys would rather you insult their wife than their yak.

Sean

[Jacob K.]

i like the idea of being versitile. able to go out to sand bars, islands, but also able to fish deeper water that i cannot access by foot. i have tried to ff out of a touring river yak and found it quite difficult. i just tired for a few hours so maybe it gets some getting used to... are sit-in's safer?
i would like to buy used. seems to make sense. probably plastic, unless i get a great deal on a glass. mostly saltwater fishing. would like to have the option to do touring/camping if i like.
i think i am starting to discribe a sit in, is that correct?

[kayakninja]

I paddle a Malibu Extreme 15' SOT. I like the fact that I can get on and off with ease. When I launch I dont need to be beached and that is important for me when fishing alone in ruff surf. There is not a SIK that can match the stability, both secondary and initial. If I ever flipped or found myself in water I just climb back on and thats it, the water that gets into the cockpit just drains out thru the scupper drains. I like mounting all my electronics, rod holders, anchor cleat, gear leashes and other gear on the flat surfaces in the cockpit. I advocate SOTs because thats what the pro's use and I am glad I made that decision.

Some people seem to think that SIK gives them more protection from the water and the air and they feel safer. Maybe the plastic could shield them from a little wind but the rules in kayaking say we should dress for the water right? We hope not to wind up in the water but we take the precaution. I dress for the water on my SOT and have no issues with the elements.

[kayakninja]

:D

[SamRiley]

Originally posted by Jacob K.
are sit-in's safer?

Oh boy... here we go again....

In my opinion, sometimes sit-ins are more practical and sometimes sit-on-tops are. Neither should be considered safer. As the others have said, think carefully about how you plan to use your kayak now and in the future and then try out as many yaks in the two main categories as you can before you buy. Generally speaking, if I were going to paddle 10 miles to get to the rips at the end of Monomoy then I would want a lean sit-in. If I were going to hang around a Herring Run with a fully stocked livewell I'd want a sit-on-top. That said, there is way more to fishing than those two extremes and all of it has merit. Good luck with your search and let us know how you make out :)

[Ray]

I think this question has probably been asked more often than "which came first...."

I have been kayak fishing for 2 seasons. One with a borrowed one then I bought my own. Both are SINK. Below is a short list of questions I asked to help make my decision;

1. What is the primary use
2. What length and weight
3. What price range
4. Rudder or not
5. SOT or SINK
6. What's comfortable
7. gotta look cool (optional)

I ended up going with a Pungo 140 (14") from Wilderness Systems. For me it offered the best combination of characteristics from the list above. I use it for inshore fishing, both spin and fly. I have traveled in farely rough water and found it to be very stable and felt confident. Like anything, you need to be careful and use good judgement. I outfitted it to with 2 rod holders and paddle clips. The seat adjusts 3 ways and there is plenty of room behind the seat for a dry bag full of "stuff". The very deep cockpit (55 inches) makes it nice and easly to handle a fish.

The boat is not built for speed, but for stability. I'm not concerned with speed at this point. Yes a 3+ mile paddle would be a bit easier with a narrow boat, but I rarely do that.

What is very important is that the kayak will expand your fishing grounds and extend your season.

If you want to check out my yak I live in Newton.

Ray

[John Wade]

Jacob, check your PM.
JW

[fishinbill]

As someone else who is beginning to shop for a kayak, this thread is great. Thanks.

Out of curiosity, what do you folks wear when you are in your yaks? Waders, or a wet suit with wading shoes? If waders, how do you mitigate the possibility of them filling with water if you go over?

[Jacob K.]

here are two questions:
i am concered about a SOT and wearing waders. if i fall in (of course wearing a PFD) it is going to be hard to get back in the boat. also, will a PFD support the weight of waders filled with water?
another one, for you guys who use the SINK do you know how to roll? i know that sea kayaks dont go over that othen, but it happens.

[John Wade]

You can wear a variety of stuff and be safe. If you have waders, get a dry top and a good wader belt and try that ( I tried it in fresh water near shore with 2 people standing by. Very little water got into my clothes, but swimming was a bit difficult and getting back on the SOT was a bit bulky, but doable). Next I tried neoprene waders-got water inside and the waders try to float your feet. Still doable. Got a wetsuit, a thin long leg, tank top. That was the best if you don't mind feeling like a sausage all day. I guess the bottom line is, if you are in a kayak you need to be ready to swim in cool or even COLD water. I wear all of those outfits depending on what I am going to be doing.
You have to be honest with yourself about how "comfortable" you are in the water. I'm a chubby, middle aged white guy, but I grew up in the water. I damn sure ain't going to swim 5 miles in waders, but I know I could stay calm enough to get out of them if
I had to.

[ruge13]

Waders - if you wear something that restrics the water from getting into the waders you will be ok as ling as you are only in the water for a short period of time, water will find a way in. However, filled waders will not make you sink so there is not problem with the pfd. When trying to lift filled waders out of the water the weight is an issue. Like lifting a bucket from a pool.

SINK ROLL - yes, I can do it. Do I ever think I would do it when fishing? It will be a cold day in hell when that happens. It is an intimidating, but easy skill once you get it, its easy. (most fishing kayaks do not have the leg supprt needed to perform a roll anyway). With equipment, it probably won;t happen, you will be swimming. Your first reaction is to get out and swimm, to collect your gear. It takes a SERIOUS amount of practice to teach your body to relax under water as a first response to bing caught off guard in a roll situation. Just not practical. If yopu actual try to do it with a rod holder and a rod laid relatively flat along the deck, it can be done sure. But you are not going to do it fishing. Also requires a skirt which most people dont;p use while fishing, or fly fishing.

I don't wear a wetsuit because of comfort, lots of people like them. I started wearing a full body but got tired of it for longer paddles. Farmer johns are popular, as with neo waders. I wear expedition weight Capilene in the winter. Under spray gear. Nothing water tight, so I will get wet if I go over. Last year I tested it, in 40 degree water. I got wet, and cold. If you paddle during the winter and want protection, complete protection, there is no substitute for a dry suit. Spring and fall I will wear spray gear and varying layers of fleece and capilene. NEVER COTTON FOR ANYTHING. It gets wet and stays wet and cold. Will not dry or at least will not isulate when wet. I use neoprene shoes and light neo gloves for cold water. Your hands will get wet but the light gloves at least keep the wind off, thats what hurts. Summer, I dress for swimming, and usually do a little. Ninja is right though, dress for the water.

Sinks will get you just as wet as SOT's if you don't wear a skirt. Wear a skirt and you can be dry as a bone if you are carefull with paddle dripping. I fish mornings and evenings before and after work and have worn the same clothes I wore to work with a skirt and been dry as a bone. The dry factor only matters if you wear a skirt, otherwise you are just as wet. They just paddle differently thats all.

Try as many as you can, check as many out as you can. I love the comment about insulting a wife and a yak....funny:p and so true.

You will beat the crap out of it fishing so I would stay away from glass. They are just as, if not more durrable, but its not worth the money for a fishing boat.

You were right, more time with a sit in and you will have no problem. Definately don;t be afraid to get a boat you have to "grow in to." Kayaks were not meant to be easy to paddle or easy to fish out of. Its just a different motion and sense of balance that your body needs to adjust to. A few more hours and you will forget all about it. I fuish out of a boat that is 22" wide. At first I hated it and was not comfortable more than 10 feet from shore because I was so wobbly. Now, I enjoy being able to lay flat in the water with the water line at my nose. Just takes time.

Ray's #7 is a big factor. So the next logical step is the kayak tatoo.

Sit in's are not safer, however with comon sense and knowing your limits, just like any outdoor sport, everything is safe. If you think the water might be too cold, too rough, too windy, too far, too dark, too deep, etc. You are right, it is.

As for what you are describing, Light touring models can be found in both a SOT and a SINK, but you may find better storage capacity vs. speed and dimentions in a SINK. But I really don't know much about SOT's.

One thing to think about when you do get one is the PFD. Like if you were buying a motorcycle, you would spend a lot on a good helmet. Do the same for a pfd. Try a few on, swing your arms around. Move in it. Make sure its very comfortable since you will be spending hours in it.

I live near boston to so if you ever want to ckeck out my boat and paddle it around you are more than welcome.

Ray brought up a good point, weight and size are factors. When you go to a dealer, don't be afraid to beat up the boats a little. After all they are Demo's. Paddle them around, pick them up over your head, carry them a little. Shake them up. When you test drive a car you don't just drive around the block and stay at the speed limit. Get on the boat a little, see what it can do.

[fishinbill]

How about the waist-high waders that some companies offer? These are essentially wading pants with a belt at the top. I would think that it would be easier to get a tight seal at the waist, and they would be more comfortable than a wet suit.

Here's one example: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/vertical-item.jhtml?id=0000607830110a&navAction=push&navCount=6&indexId=cat350005&podId=0000607&catalogCode=ID&parentId=cat350005&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fitem-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20166&hasJS=true

[ruge13]

For what its worth, when I tested my gear in cold water last year I used black rock gear from NRS. The pants are not sealed at the ankles but I had the velcro neo gaskets cranked shut like usual. Neo boots under them. When I got out water was trapped in the pants and drained very very slowly. Fine to walk in but would have made a wet entry tough. The wading pants have a sealed ankle, like waders, and will not drain at all. If you get wet, water will get in no matter how hard you try. I had the matching splash top, with a doulbe waist seal in neoprene, also cranked tight and water still got in. Without a dry suit, over your head and you will get wet. Better to dress for water with materials that dry and insulate fast like fleece, capalene, or any expidition weight long underwear designed to wick moisture. Even wool.

I say this from the point of view for someone who uses a SINK. I have never tried dunking with waders on. SOT guys who did it say they never really had a problem. A little wet but nothing major. SINKS take longer to self rescue so there is more time for water to creep in. I am skeptical that this is a good system (although I do it myelself and know the risk) but never tried testing. When I tested the Black rock suit, although not a true dry top, I got wet. Water creeped in and filled the pants. I think the same would happen for waders with longer exposure times and I wonder if this could be a reak issue for us SINK padlers. I know it will be, but will it be significant enough to make me change my habbits? Sounds like a weekend plan. Look like I am getting wet again.

[G-Man]

Since the thread is still going...
I'll just mention what I wear for ocean trips. Not the "right" answer...just what I do.

Keep in mind my scupper kayak is a wet ride. Although most guys use waders I still go with neoprene stuff. Considering safety over comfort.

Everything from NRS. FarmerJohn style is key, so arms are free. Lycra undershorts to prevent any chafing. Hydroskin (NRS brand) longsleeve top 1/2 mil). Hydroskin socks under NRS neoprene workboot(great combo). 1/2mil neoprene gloves and I can fish or paddle with no worries. Jump out and wade at anytime, even go snorkeling if I choose. Of course PDF as well.

A fingerless pair of neo gloves and fingered for colder time.

In the summer, with farmer johns you can pull the chest part down so they're are just pants and put a tee shirt on.

In the colder months just add a windblock jacket..maybe pants over the neoprene layer. You're set. Now you can even play in the surf if you want.

I rolled 3 times in my first year, so I invested in the neoprene setup. I'm ussually out by myself and often at night so I really want falling into the water to be non-issue. I just find myself more relaxed and enjoy the experience more when I have no fear of being in the drink. That's just me.

You don't need to figure it all out now. Take it one step at a time. Get yourself a yak and join the fun. :)

[SamRiley]

Originally posted by G-Man

1. Not the "right" answer...just what I do.
2. You don't need to figure it all out now.
3. Take it one step at a time.
4. Get yourself a yak and join the fun. :)


Couldn't agree more :) You will figure out what works best for you over time.

[Ray]

Lots of good advice here, but, keep one thing in mind when making your selection....



Chic's dig sit-in-kayaks(ers)

[notime]

From a SINK owner. I've had the sink for 2 years now and really enjoy it. I've had several issues though that I think an SOT resolves. While I probably won't spend the $500-$1000 to buy a SOT tomorrow, I am testing one to see if a SOT might be a better long term option.

The issues:
First, I'd like to be able to get in and out of the kayak without beaching. For instance, in shallow water, sight fishing at Monomoy, or because I need to streach.

Second, I'd like to do a surf launch with no worries. Much easier with a SOT.

Finally, safety. I have a very large cockpit to make fishing easy. If I ever flipped in the middle of the night by myself I'd be in big trouble. SOT, just climb back in. I use wetsuit pants, not waders.

If you dress well, you'll be just as comfortable in a SOT as a SINK. About two weeks ago I fished in driving rain. The SINK offered little protection, but my clothing kept me dry. So even if you get splashed more in a SOT, good clothes will keep you dry.

Like Ray, I normally don't paddle more than a couple of miles so what a SOT might give up in speed isn't that important to me.

One last thought for current owners:
- Any SINK owners wish they had an SOT
- Any SOT owners wish they had a SINK

The answer to this question might help.

Either way, you'll never regret buying a kayak. I've heard that some Reel-Timers sleep with theirs.

[Wes]

I have one of each. :D

If I only had one it would be the SOT, you can fish a much wider range of conditions. There are certainly some times I like to fish the SK but they wold almost always involve reasonably warm water, a partner and not a lot of tackle.

[SamRiley]

Originally posted by notime

One last thought for current owners:
- Any SINK owners wish they had an SOT
- Any SOT owners wish they had a SINK

I do wish that I had another yak that was a SOT for diving. Hauling my sorry butt out of the water and into a SINK with 30 lbs of lead on would be interesting.

I'd also like another sink that was longer and leaner for the marathon trips.

So many yaks, so little time :)

[notime]

Ray is correct, chics do dig SINKs. You will look a little dorky on the SOT. I guess the first question should be...are you married?

[Jacob K.]

not married. girlfriend. and no size issues. at least none that i am aware of.
but really, i think i am probably comming from a different postion than most new yakers. i have a lot of time on the water (+1000 days on sail boats). so i know many of the safety issues and such. that said, i have only spent 10 days in yaks and have never been good at fishing. all of the help here has been great. i am leaning towards the SOT, eventhough i started out thinking they were so dorky.
it seems like they are more versetile and i like the idea of being able to get out and back in with ease.
does the added height of the SOT help with casting?
thank you also for all the the offers for use of yaks to see my best fit.
jacob
ps. ray and sean- i met you guys at DI one night in august. ray you showed me some ropes. i changed my rt name from hacobito....

[Flypaint]

I happen to have both types. A cobra explorer that I've had for about two years and a classic Pungo that I bought this season.Someone made the comment that there aren't any siks that are as stable as a sot.They have obviously never tried a Pungo!I have intentionally flipped mine and it wasn't that easy.I started off with an sot for all the reasons mentioned and because I primarily am on the water to fish.But I also am one of these people that when I start getting into something I have a thirst for learning more about it. Traditional kayaks used on the water by people who have mastered skills such as bracing, edging and maybe even rolling is a beautiful thing to watch.They truly do become one with their yaks and develop a sixth sense for handling the water.Are those qualities required to be a successful fisherman? probably not, but they couldn't hurt either. I started out as an advocate for sots but I find myself increasingly desiring more from my yak than it was made for. Call it growing pains. If you think at some point you might like to paddle a little further, turn a little easier, glide a little longer, pack a tent etc: than don't get sold on the idea that only one kind of yak is suitable for fisherman. It just ain't so!

[ruge13]

Jacob, didn't realize that was you. :D

[notime]

Fly casting out of any kayak is tough. Probably easier from a SOT, but still tough. However, distance usually isn't that important as you can get very close to fish without spooking them. Also, the kayak allows you to get closer to structure than a boat.