Tipping?

[Smcdermott]

I am headed on my first bonefishing trip in May. I will be staying at Rickmon Lodge in Sandy Point Abaco in the Bahamas. I will be alone on the skiff for 6 days. What is the appropriate tip? I am assuming I should tip each day with maybe a little extra on the last day for hopefully great service. I am also responsible for gratuities for the house staff.

Thanks in advance,

Sean

[BobG]

There's a lot of factors involved here. I personally feel that tipping in general has gotten way out of hand, even with bonefish guides. Sadly, there are no hard and fast rules on this topic.

OK, is your guide an owner/operator, or does he work for wages through the lodge?
If he's the owner/ operator unless he goes above and beyond, and really keeps you on fish for all six days, then why tip him at all? If his fee is $275-$325 a day, that's a lot of $$$! If he puts together 6 perfect days for you, I.E. lots of fish, no break-downs, is on time, and in general a nice guy, maybe you can tip him at weeks end.
But, if he works for the lodge, he's probably not getting much money. So, I guess a tip would be in order at the end of each day. But even at that, I've fished with guides who had no motivation at all. Didn't bring enough fuel, showed up late, wanted to quit early, etc. Usually, this won't happen at the better lodges, but it can happen.
On the flip side, if the guy works real hard, keeps you on fish, is on time, very knowledgable, fun to be with, then a good tip is certainly in order. One guide at Nettie's used to love to sing on the skiff. He'd ask if I minded. Of course I didn't. Actually, I enjoyed it!
I'd say $40 a day might be in order.

[Loopy]

I think Bob has the right idea. I tip about 15% if I think the guide is working at it. If he is bad, well I've never had one that was as bad as he described. I wouldn't tip at all and would want a refund of my fee. Most of the guides are working for the lodge and getting much less than the fee I am paying, so I think a tip is appropriate.

You might check your bill at the lodge. Many places in the Bahamas automatically include a gratuity and that includes housekeeping as well as food service, etc. Anything extra is up to you but needn't be automatic. If it is not automatically included, I probably wouldn't tip that much, perhaps 10% on the room. It's kind of hard to figure out a percent on food and Kalik if you are going all inclusive especially as everyones drinking habits are different. $10 a day, maybe 15, at the most. So say $100 for the week.

Gets pretty pricey, pretty fast ($50 for fishing, 15 for food and ? for the room times 6 days.) $500 in tips for one week, seems like where we are headed and I've never tipped that much.

[JeffR]

Last time I was in Andros, about 4 years ago, I was directed by my Bahamas travel guy that $25-40/day wasn't out of line, more if you had an especially good day. First day out I point blank asked the guide if he would mind if I tipped at the end of the trip rather than daily - and he had no problem whatsoever with that. The first day was especially good, the next three were decent, and the last two were especially good. He got 300.

If you spend a week with a guide, there is lots of time to talk. And by the end of the week, he's going to have a pretty good idea of what you can afford. While I'm sure there are some people who would have tipped more, I'm equally certain he knew I was at the upper end of what I could spend, and appreciated it for that moreso than the amount.

[BobG]

Sean,

I forgot to mention. I've never fished Sandy Point. I've been there just for a drive, but never had the pleasure of fishing the place. It looked outstanding! I expect a full report when you return! --127-3-

Loopy, I've had two so-so trips while bone fishing. One respected guide showed up late, not enough gas, no money for gas (even though I gave him $300 the previous day) and a motor which barely ran. I ended up paying for the fuel. It was very frustrating sitting on the bow, while we worked on his 20 year old outboard most of the morning. Needless to say, he didn't get a tip.
Another guy showed up with no pole (broke his the week before). We spent the first hour with a matchete in the mangroves searching for a suitable pole. :mad: :mad: Then he complained the rest of the day how tired he was, the boat was too heavy, I was too heavy (6'2", 230 in those days ;) ), etc. :rolleyes:
But, all the other guides were great! All gentlemen, good fishermen, loved their work. Those guys deserved their tip IMHO.

[Slamdance]

One other thing you may want to consider is tipping with equipment rather than cash. It can be difficult to get gear delivered in the islands. A boga grip, a reel, something like that can be a lot more valuable to a bahamian guide and they certainly won't forget you.

[DartFish]

I have fished in Andros on several ocasions, and here is what I have to offer...take it or leave it... Most of the guides working for lodges in the bahamas make between $100 and $175 per day, regardless of what you are being charged. Compare that to the $400-$450 that guides out of the keys get and it certainly seems that a tip (provided that the service is good), should be provided. I generally tip between $45 and $65 per day, depending on how the fishing was and give my guide a lump sum at the end of the trip. Many lodges ask that you not exceede the $50 mark, for fear that the guide may skip work for the next week, if you have matched his wages... just my insights, but what it boils down to is how hard is the guide working to make you a successful fisherman, whether that means giving you pointers on casting, poling all day in a tough head-wind, or putting you on the biggest bone of your life.

[AlderBrookFarm]

Are you going through an angling travel service? I just plunked down my hard earned money to go to Belize in April --127-3- --125-3 and the arrangements are being handled by Angler Adventures. I got a package in the mail last week from them which is great. Talk about holding your hand! Since it's my first trip out of the country, other than Canada, it's well appreciated. The section on gratuities says the lodge recommends US$25/day/boat and US$40/wk/guest for house/kitchen staff and that tipping is usually done at the end of the stay unless you are having different guides during the week. Of course US$1= BZ$2.07 so it would need to be adjusted for Bahamas exchange rate. They also recommend checking with the lodge themselves as to what is normal for their facility.

[Guy]

Speaking as a former guide and Canadian who are notouriosly known as cheap tippers, I always find these discussions about tipping interesting. Americans tend to be known as big tippers and we certainly see it in discussions like this where there always seems to be the guys who feel they must offer up the highest tips as a matter of principle. When I guided for trout I worked for someone else, and ironically, the biggest tips often came from guys I would rather not see in my boat again. They often had an arrogance about themselves and a condesending attitude towards me the guide. I felt I was really no different than a prostitute in their eyes. A $20 tip from a guy who really "spent the day" with me treating me as a fellow angler and equal (like Jeff R's suggestion) rather than just a lowly hired boatman meant a lot more to me than the $50 or $60 tip from Mr Bigshot. I also operated a waterfowl hunting operation on my own. Interestly enough, the cash tips were fewer and farther between when I was the boss. That said nearly all my business after the first year was repeat clients which in itself meant much more than a "See you later, (maybe)" big tip! As Slamdance suggested, many of the repeat clients started bringing gear (shotguns, shells decoys), or gifts for the family which was well appreciated.

Guides are people no matter whether they live in Canada, Belize or the Bahamas. If you treat your guide as a fishing partner and "new" friend", the size or type of tip is really irrelevant. Most guides I know will almost always work harder for the "nice guy" in the boat rather than the guy who simply feels he can buy better service by dangling the big tip at the end of the day.
Of course respect is a two way street and if the guide does not show the client due respect or service, then why would you want give any tip?

Paradoxically, the practice of large tips as a matter of course can set dangerous precedents. Lodge owners will pay their guides (and other staff) less expecting tips to make up the difference. Of course, this is typical of the American service industry which lives on tips. I would like to see more anglers ask the lodge owners and booking agents what exactly they are paying their guides for a day of fishing. Many of the best Bahamian guides are independent now simply because they can make more money on their own. My favorite Bahamian guide does not work for a lodge or any booking agency. He charges about $50 - $100 less as an independent than what the local bonefish lodge would charge him out at yet he makes $50 - 100 more per day than if he worked for that same lodge or booking agency.

My 2 Canadian cents worth!

Guy

[BobD]

The few times I was lucky to go to Belize. I tipped daily and at the end of the week I gave the guide a fly box full of flies. I fished with the same guide the whole week and was lucky to hook up with him each time I went there. He mentioned that the box of flies was something he looked forward to when he knew I was coming down.

[Smcdermott]

for all the input. I did book through an agent who made a few reccomendations but used the ultimately it is up to you line so I just wasn't sure exactly where he was coming from. Really looking forward to this trip and will definitely bring some extra flies and terminal tackle I can leave with the guide as well as some cash. I definitely don't see a guide as a "prostitute" but more like a teacher. Two professions in which people often don't realize how hard they work. My goal is to be fair with tips and generous with fun and hard work on my end.

Sean

[widdoes]

This is what I have been directed by Frontiers for Boca Paila (maybe adjust up slightly for the Bahamas)- $20/day/person for 2 anglers, $30/day for single. I'll add to it if (when) I get Mr. P, and I keep a $100 bill in my wallet for a slam :brow , which inevitably goes toward my bar tab. :-%
I also bring flies, spools of fluorocarbon (and huge hit and tough to come by), and heavy mono for shock leaders to give away- cheap stuff really, but very difficult to get in MX. I'm also gonna be making up some surge tube (cuda) lures. The guides eat 'em in Boca- only the one's from the lagoon which (they claim) do not carry ciguaterra. Not for me, man! (#$119)
-Wild John

[Marshrunner]

Sean,
The best guides are true partners on the water. They want you to catch fish and they want you to learn how to optimize your skills. Also, in bonefishing, poling a boat across endless flats is not easy work ... and being good at spotting fish, helping you see them, and setting you up for a good cast is a skill to be appreciated. Tipping as an incentive or reward is appropriate for any guide--independent or club--who works hard to put you on fish, even if he is not always successful; not tipping for poor performance is also appropriate.

I usually plan on about 10-15% of the day rate as a baseline and increase that (a bit) for an outstanding day. Other advice in this string is dead on--overtipping and being condescending are inappropriate. And gifts of hard- to-get items are much appreciated. I usually take a Gortex jacket to one guide I have fished with for over 25 years--a near impossible item to find in the Bahamas out islands and something he gets to use year round. Flies, tippet, hats, tool are also good ideas.

Sean, BTW, when at Sandy Point, see if you can get a guide to take you out to Mores Island one day and carry a rod rigged for permit. Email me if you want more on this.

Dick

[teflon_jones]

in my opinion, americans tip far too much!!! my fiancee always tips 20% for meals, even if the service sucks! if i try and tip low for lousy service, she gets upset if i go below 15%. aren't you tipping for good service?!?!?!?!

i think this tendency goes into most things we could tip for, including fishing charters. part of paying for an expensive guide is that you're paying them to get you to the fish. tipping 15-20% seems very excessive to me for a $700 a day trip! at what point don't you tip them? if you catch zero fish? or do you tip them anyway? IMHO, tipping ~10% for a great fishing trip with a good guide is a good amount. i pay them well for the base rate because i expect to catch fish with them. i'm not going to pay them more for it via the tip. just my opinion!

[ikan besar]

whether we like to tip or not, the precedent has been set. I have a number of guide friends in various parts of the world. They universally dread being booked by European clients as they routinely don't tip. None of the guides that I know are getting rich doing this, they do it because they like it or in some cases, have no other way of earning a living. With few exceptions, they are the sole earner in their household.

We show up with thousands of dollars in graphite wearing a $65 pastel shirt and whine about paying a bit extra to the guy who just poled us around the flats all day long?!

If my waiter at dinner is worth 20%, I see no reason to show the guide any less appreciation.

As mentiond above, flies, leader material, and other equipment can be an excellent gift to guides where such items are unavailable. However, I don't know if that should eclipse the monetary tip altogether.

I work for a number of tackle companies and they have all at one time or another asked if they could pay in gear instead of a check. I have responded that as soon as my mortgage company accepts reels in lieu of dollars, I'm all for it.

[Guy]

Some very biased observations about us foreigners regarding our spending habits in paradise (the Caribbean). When Europeans come to paradise, they tend to want to a European experience (catered with familiar food and atmosphere) in paradise. Americans tend to want to buy paradise and control it. And Canadians just want paradise without paying for it (our loonie's been in the tank for so long, can you blame us?)

My two Canadian cents worth!

Guy

[JeffR]

Now that made my night (#$120) .

Eloquently true, yet curiously unoffensive. My hat is off, sir.