two handed rods

[Jack Keller]

i suffered a severe accident in june and lost most of my right hand. having become a lefty i first tried casting left handed. i could do this but it was hard to shoot line and i kept dropping the damn rod. a friend loaned me a 14 ft. double handed model. what a difference! now my friends call me lethal weapon and refuse to get in casting contests anymore. now i've started to experiment and i've learned a few things about leverage and lines. i've tried the shooting heads but generally find that the running lines are too difficult to handle with what is left of my right hand so i've gone to regular weight forward lines that are 3 or even 4 times heavier than the rod's rating. so far i've done mostly overhead casting as i am generally a warm saltwater angler and have no problems with backcasts on the laguna madre. however, i wonder about the spey line configuration. are there any other guys out there who use two handed rods exclusively? if so do you have any experience with spey lines in places other than salmon streams?

[Loopy]

I'm sorry for your injury but congratulate you on finding an alternative. I'm just starting to learn how to use a twohander. There is an website:
<link to commercial site removed...mcahill>
I think it is typical for spey rods to have a different line weighting than aftma. The lines are much heavier and the heads are much longer. Good Luck.

Jeff

[masssalt]

I'm sorry I don't have time to answer your question more fully, but:

In general, spey lines are designed for roll casting and have radically different tapers than standard weight forward lines. While I do believe there are saltwater applications that will benefit from spey lines and spey casting, most SW fishing with two-handed rods is done with overhead casting. Most spey lines have very long heads and long front tapers which makes then pretty terrible for overhead casting. The two exceptions I can think of are the Rio
WindCutter spey line, and the new SciAnglers Short Spey. These lines have shorter heads, ( In the vicinity of 48-54',) and overhead cast quite well. For throwing larger SW flies, you will have better results if you cut a few feet off of the front taper as they will turn over better.

You also have to pretty much ignore the line ratings on the rods, as these are rated for spey lines and casting and not ovrhead. Again in general, for overhead casting you will have best results using lines rated lower than the rod rating.

With regards to your comment on shooting heads, I would urge you to try the new Rio intermediate shooting line which is exactly like ordinary fly line. It handles exactly lik the running line portion of a full fly line.

Be sure to search out rods that are faster tapers, not traditional spey tapers.

Another good resource for you might be to contact RB Meiser fly rods. Bob Meiser makes many different rods for overhead casting, including 9'6" and 9'9" models. He calls these shorter two-handers, " Switch rods," and if you are fishing from a boat you might find them handy. I also know that he has a lot of experience with fly anglers of varying levels of disability and for them, his switch rods have made a serious contribution to the sport. If you need his contact info, please contact me via e-mail: jhorton@haydenreels.com

[Del Fankhauser]

--127-3- Bob Meiser's web page is listed at the following site.

http://www.siskiyouaviary.com/handbook.html

this is his hand book providing advise to the new buyer. he built a 13' 6" 2-handed rod for overhead casting. The spey method makes too much noise on still water in the Laguna Madre, South Padre Island. He matched to my rod a Rio Windcutter with interchangeable tips. I fish in 1 to 3 ft deep water and in the surf. I ran into the problem the gentleman discussed above about line length and found by shortening the line improved my casting. The wind cutter line has a running line, body, intermediate tip or body and then the final 15' tip. i was casting the line and each time the line went out. all the connecting loops to all the sections was making a H--- of a lot of racket. So, i removed the intermediate tip. this shortened the overall length about 15 feet. it reduced some of the noise,but more important, i could cast it better. My fishing partner was a lot happier with me. i had spooked a nice pod of 32 inch reds prior to the line adjustment. My bad luck turned out to be good luck.

Ask bob to send you a vhs tape of him casting a switch rod, 10'6". It is very imformative. it is not a hollywood production,but it is very informative. as you may have learned. the overhead cast is something like how you should cast a conventional reel or spinning reel over head. You use the strength of the rod to do the casting ( that is why you pay so much for a rod). to power the rod with strong arm strength will usually, mess up the distance. Bob's whole point in the film is do not use too much muscle strength. it is like the old ad "take greyhound and leave the driving to us"

Due to your unfortunate accident, i believe you injured your rt. hand, then grasp the rod above the reel with your left. This hand is just guiding the direction of the pole. The right hand can hold on to the butt with the line against the rod to hold fast the line until the release. begin the cast with your left arm extended you make the overhead back cast. When you come forward about the time the rod is straight over your head drop your left arm so that your left hand is about shoulder high. and at the same time briskly pull the butt of the rod into your chest or stomach. This is when you power the rod this bends the tip back loading the rod. then release the line. the line flies out. Again, the left is guiding the rod on the desired path ( it is the fulcrum of the lever) and then the rt hand is pulling the butt to the chest and loading the rod. The effort is minimal as compared to powering with your muscle. As bob demonstrates the position of the rt. hand. : he thumb and index finger make a circle around the rod butt and the line. His 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers are not even toching the rod. His right hand is just pulling the rod toward his chest or upper stomach. the rod is "thy staff" a proper rod does all the work. I had to switch to the twohander because the single handed fly rod was killing my rt shoulder.

I have a copy of the vhs, if you are in the mcallen area or down at the beach you can come by my condo on the island. call me at 956-458-1025.

the 13 footer is too long for the boat. bob is making me a switch rod 10'6''. this baby is a two hander with a fast tip. 90 to 100ft cast are easy. you can pick up 50 ft of line and lay it back to where you want to go . the whole deal is to get the timing down on the cast.

bob is coming from oregon in sept or oct. to fish with me and teach me more. our target are the 4-6 ft tarpon like i was catching in the surf last september. \what a rodeo. give me a call. what bob has taught me over the phone and with the video has made flyfishing possible for me again. like a second chance. del fankhauser

[SteelieChaser]

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Jack Sorry about your accident.I have been Using Double Handed Rods now for the last 6 years...The learning curve was really expensive..But when you get past that it is smooth sailing.........First off what Rod(s) are you using...Second...What Lines are you using...Third your leader...Fourth....Are you Spey Casting or Over Handing....


SteelieChaser

[Jack Keller]

SteelieChaser,
yes it does seem to be an expensive process but it beats not fishing. i have two rods at present, a 13 ft. scott 9 wt.(that I borrow) and a 12 ft. thomas and thomas 8 wt. both cast a 12 wt forward pretty well but i think the 12 footer might do better with an 11 wt. at present i just can't afford too much experimentation. the expense of all these lines is a real problem and i simply have had to make do with the lines i have. these lines are SA tarpon tapers that i used pretty hard before my accident. i do have a 12 wt. wulff bermuda triangle taper but i think the water is still too cold for it. i have been using a furled leader with a pretty hefty tippet since i started snapping flies off and learned the timing. these things do have a tremendous amount of power. mostly i do overhead casting and i know that the spey lines are more specialized for that style of casting. however, if a spey or a windcutter line would improve my casting i would suck it up a purchase one. i just hate
to buy a line that does not suit me very well and this is the main reason for my questions.
i do appreciate all yor comments
jack

[masssalt]

Jack, you don't mention what you are fishing for, but the T & T DH 1208 is a great rod for overhead casting. I only fish it with shooting heads, but I think your assumption about the 11-weight is pretty-much dead-on. My favorite head on that rod is a 40' 11-weight. It will fish a 12-weight although it feels overloaded to me.

If you are overhead casting saltwater-sized flies, I think you will be best suited by sticking with ordinary WF fly lines or a shooting head system on that rod. Spey lines are designed for roll-casting. They have much longer front tapers which help them complete the cast, but they don't turn over large or heavy flies as easily as shorter front tapers. The WindCutter type spey lines are designed for a combination of spey and overhead/underhand styles. The heads are in the vicinity of 54'-long, and they have much more grain weight for the stated size than a WF line. If you wanted to try one of those, I think the 7/8 might be the one.

Simon Gawesworth at Rio might be the guy to ask about lining that rod. He is a line designer at Rio and also on Pro Staff with Thomas & Thomas.

You need to find a shop that will let you try lines out before buying them, they are just too expensive to experiment with.