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Tuna
06-14-2004, 08:38 AM
Friday was one of those maddening days when you thought the sun would come out but it didn't. It was out early, but by the time I hit the flats it was hidden and until after I quit around 4 PM, the Ct half of the sky was clear but there were clouds over the island.

Decided to wade anyway, thinking the sun would come out.

I saw a few fish on the flat I waded last week, but generally saw them late. The light wind helped, but usually I saw the fish as they saw me. Nice bass, only saw one obvious non-keeper.

I got a fish by casting to a maybe bass after seeing a small swirl near me. Good fish, borderline keeper, great run.

A little later I saw a big fish near me, but it didn't spook like the others. Its head didn't look right for a bass, and its tail looked like a shark. I blind cast in the direction it was headed and boom - the fight felt like a bass, and sure enough I ended up with a 30 plus inch bass. I figured I had just not seen the fish right, that the lack of sun had clouded my interpretation.

I musta waded 4 miles for about 6 hours that day. Too much for me old legs. I planned to wade smaller distances Saturday, and rest in between by moving from flat to flat.

Saturday morning was pure sun. I met up with DanD on the same flat and we worked out a plan where he would drift from one direction, and I would wade from the other direction, and we'd meet in between. I told him about my strange vision Friday but how the shark had morphed to a nice bass.

I had shots at a number of good bass before intersecting with Dan. I turned some fish, and one nice one opened its mouth to the fly. I strip struck nothing, and the bass, unspooked, headed in the direction of deeper water. I cast in front of it and boom - a smaller bass. The big bass followed it the whole fight.

Then Dan came into the area. He was on the outside of the flat, me on the inside. He too had seen good fish, had turned fish but no bites from the nice ones. We each spotted fish for each other. He listened to me curse a lot.

Then he yelled out wow. I saw a giant, not bass looking fish near him over clear sand. It looked bigger than 3 feet long. He made a number of great casts to it. It never spooked. It was not a bass. Maybe a shark? Dan also posed the possibility of cobia, although I thought it early to see southern guests.

I switched flies around this time and then saw 3 bass coming in a line and got the fly in front of them. I got a nice bass (short of keeper I think) that Dan watched run right to shore.

I didn't want to get to tired on one flat so I began thinking of heading back to my boat and moving.

I told Dan to move ahead of me so he could fish waters I had not waded.

I got into my boat, pulled the anchor and saw Dan motion for me to come closer to him. I got within yelling distance and he said, no doubt, he had just seen a shark, along with some big bass. The shark had gone under his boat so he got a good look at it.

I began to think the fish I saw Saturday was a shark. That maybe the bass hang around it in case it kicks up something to eat, the way predators follow a ray on the flats in tropical waters.

I moved to a flat I had seen bass on years ago, but that had too many rocks to make for a safe drift.

As I was tying the anchor line, I looked down in 3 feet of water and clearly saw a shark about 3 feet long.

I don't know if this is right, but when I used to bonefish the guides never seemed upset when we saw small sharks on the flats.

So I waded the area, and saw another shark that ignored my fly.

Then I saw a bass cruising over pure sand and got it to hit. Maybe a 24 incher. I kept my eyes out for sharks as I landed it.

Then I got to a portion of the flat where I found a zone bass were passing through. I got maybe 20 casts to bass without moving an inch. I turned some fish but no hits.

Then I tried the NH shore. Pulled a stupid anchor move - some offshore wind, but I anchored outside a shoal forgetting that Saturday meant constant boat waves. I walked along the shoal and saw bass coming along its edge from deeper water. I turned a few fish, then waded into knee deep water. Water was a bit murky, but I found another zone bass were passing by. I turned several fish before landing another non keeper.

I then went to repair my mistake. The waves had pushed most of the boat onto the shoal. The anchor had kept the front of the boat in 2 plus feet of water. For about 20 minutes, I inched that fat old lady of a boat off the flat. I really have to be more careful anchoring to wade - I'm too old for this.

I waded another portion of NH and saw some great fish while I was anchoring. I got shots at a few fish, but then started to feel dead from 2 days of wading and 20 minutes of boat shoal removal.

A fun day on the water.

Now, I really don't know what I am doing wading. Was I wrong to assume that small sharks on the flats are not too dangerous?

fmw
06-14-2004, 10:40 AM
I'm sure they are friendly sand sharks/dogfish. No problem except for some nasty spines that can give you quite an infection. Just be very careful unhooking when they try to twist all around you. Query. . . is there a difference between a sand shark and a dogfish or are they one and the same??


That being said, fished Sat. on boat around Montauk. Had Dad and brother with me (non-flyfishers) and as a consequence, spent most of the day fluke fishing on south side. FWIW, schools of small blues everywhere. Did not catch anything on a brief stop at Caswells. Most interesting was around Great Eastern where in a brief stop on way home, we jigged up a just shy of keeper bass under birds. Though being chased down by the wire line trolling fleet, there were some big bass crashing on top . . . action looked like it was starting to build in late afternoon, but had to go in. Though hordes of basking sharks have been reported hanging out off EH and Amagansett, I saw none.

Sunday, at first light stopped around Amagansett bayside for wading, saw but did not catch fish, then moved to Sammy's and 3 Mile where I caught any number of schoolies up to around 25" till around 8:30 a.m. Met Jeff on "Tucker and Me" -- nice guy.

Tons of bait everywhere. Sand eels, I believe.

joshr
06-14-2004, 11:01 AM
Drove out east Sat morning early to flats fish with TedS for the day....we met at Acabonac at 9:30am cause I wanted to fish Gardiners Bay flats instead of Peconics. Had motor starting trouble....grrrrr...sounded like it was flooded (which it tuned out it was)...so after 45 mins wasted, be parked the car and boat and decided to wade for a while and let the engine settle. Turned out to be a good call...we saw a good number of fish of all sizes on the flat we decided to wade. Crystal clear water, light bottom, no wind, lowish tide...perfect conditions for wading. And in about 20 min period we hooked and landed 3, all site casted. We had a double header with our first two fish, which was fun. 2 of the 3 were dinks, one was about 25" and fat. As I was playing my second fish (a dink), a really nice keeper shows up sitting still, facing me 40 feet in front of me...the easiest freakin' shot in the world, but I can't get this dink in in time. As if to turture me, the keeper starts meandering ever so slowly right to me head on--it was really like he was saying, "Haha sucker, I see you're a little tied up...I'm gonna make this so painful for you." Fish swam right up to my knees and then turned off--easily 32". One of the nice things about wading when the conditions are good for sighting is that the fish will get really close without spooking and will eat when they are very close. I find that in the skiff, it is harder to get them to eat as they get close even if they don;t look spooked...I think they can just sense that there is something big pushing a lot of water in front of them and they get on edge and tentative.

Anyway, after we waded that flat, we decided to try the motor again and sure enough it fired right up no problem this time...gues I shouldn;t have primed the bulb before starting it the first time or something. It was now almost deal low so things were slow for a bit, but then we started seeing decent numbers of fish on a flat I really like out towards promised land. We got a few refusals and misses, but then Ted stuck a small fish. That ended up being our last fish of the day.

TONS of sand eels on the flats, which is great to see...nice thick swarms of them--little guys 1-1.5".

So not a bad day for only having a few hours on the water and with dead water right in the middle of what time we did have, but nothing spectacular...we didn't get to the flats I had originally planned to fish most of the day b/c the engine trouble got us all off track...eager to get back out with a full day and the right tides.

Re the sharks Peter saw: almost certainly sandsharks/dogfish and totally harmless and they will not take a fly even if you hang it in front of their nose, I think. We had swarms of them on a bunch of Gardiners flats last summer...I had never seen so many....on some flats there was one evry 10-20 feet it seemed. Ted, remember that day poling Cartwright when we saw hundreds of them? Seems like they are basically blind and must hunt by smell, cause they showed zero interest in flies....I think they're probably more like skates feeding on small crustaceans they stirr up from the bottom.

--Josh

Tuna
06-14-2004, 11:37 AM
I was so shark obsessed I forgot to say there was bait everywhere. Lots of sand eels and lots of other bait.

Josh - I definitely feel I do better with bigger fish wading. I don't see as well, but I can get them to hit up close.

I have heard from Dan that the second shark he saw was about 7 feet long and looked different than the others (probably not a sand shark). I also have replies from another site which suggests wading is crazy when any shark is around, but I will probably do it off and on until July when I switch to fishing Montauk and working structure most of the time.

tom crowley
06-14-2004, 11:42 AM
I remember about 20 yrs ago a blue shark was caught in the traps by Paradice Pt.

danny
06-14-2004, 08:36 PM
hey guys... when we see sharks in the keys on the flats, we usually figure there's bait, and so it usually follows that there's gamefish. i sometimes run outside a flat if things are slow, and look for dorsal fins. up here in new york, i know there's tons of dogfish and sand sharks, but i also know there are some species that'll bite you if they feel like it and they have the chance. i think last year there was even a white shark seen and or trapped in gardiner's bay or peconic bay or somewhere real close. and there are those people that got eaten in 1916 in new jersey (probably by a bull shark) so i'd pay attention while i was wading. that said, i think it's probably safe to wade and fish--just keep an eye out. and if you see a bunch of sharks around, they're probably there keying on bait, so there are probably gamefish around with the same idea.

bigbonita
06-15-2004, 07:14 AM
I'm sure they are friendly sand sharks/dogfish. No problem except for some nasty spines that can give you quite an infection. Just be very careful unhooking when they try to twist all around you. Query. . . is there a difference between a sand shark and a dogfish or are they one and the same??

there are several sharks that we call 'sandsharks' that are in reality species of dogfish. one is the spiny dogfish and the other is the smooth dogfish, which is in the houndshark family. then there is the true sandshark, also known as sandtiger shark. the latter is readily distinquishable by its long needle teeth (making this menacing looking shark a good species to showcase at aquariums since it is also a lazy shark) and the fact that it can grow to several hundred pounds, unlike the 2 dogfish listed above which probably doesn't exceed 20 or 30 lbs. although the sandtiger is not generally listed as being dangerous to man, there are some scientist who believe that this shark is either the same as or closely related the grey nurse shark (not to be confused with true nurse shark), which is an extremely dangerous shark. anyway, hope that helps

PanamaJack
06-15-2004, 08:58 AM
The only real experience I have of targeting sharks on the fly is fishing off the Marquesas, Key West, Florida. There we would normally target Black Tips and Lemon, fishing from a skiff. But Hammerheads and Tigers can turn up in that shallow water.

The Black Tips and Lemon are agressive sight feeders, really nailing the fly, but we normally would attract them by using a 'butterfly-ed' Barracuda hung over the side.

However we did on one occasion hook up to a Nurse Shark that looked to be easily in the 400lb range on a fly. Definitely attracted by scent. But he took the fly, NOT sweetened by bait, quite legally. The problem was getting him trying to leave the trail! That's just a big 'dogfish'. Perhaps a similar technique would work in the North East?

fmw
06-15-2004, 09:46 AM
See link to attached article re swarms of basking sharks off the east end beaches: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lijaws153851170jun15,0,2005256.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

PanamaJack
06-15-2004, 11:31 AM
It is possible that the 7 footer was a Sand Tiger Shark. From what I've read they are encountered, often in very shallow water in your part of the world, from Florida to Maine. There're some further details on -

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/prot_res/species/fish/sandtiger_shark.html

Despite its apparent docile reputation (in the 'States) I would certainly treat any shark of that size as potentially dangerous. And certainly there have been reported attacks on humans by Sand Tigers from Australia and the East coast of South Africa where again they venture into very shallow water. Our Club members have had fish in the 350lb range anchored in water less than 10' deep in Struiss Bay, South Africa.
Kindest Regards
Dave West
Chairman - Sportfishing Club of the British Isles
www.scbi.org.uk

danny
06-15-2004, 04:33 PM
ps... and i guess others have mentioned this as well... big, bad sharks can get into VERY skinny water. i've seen bulls, hammerheads, lemons, blacktips, spinners, all in less than 3' of water. so just keep that in the back of your mind. in new york we have makos, blues, sand tigers, white sharks, etc. and while most of these species prefer deeper water, you just never know.

AndyF
06-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Gardiners is loaded with dogfish. My bet is most (at least the smaller ones) were dogfish. The Star had a great shot of a 17 foot basking shark (harmless) in this week's issue taken from an airplane. But last year there was a report in the Star of a juvenile great white caught in a trap in the bay, and a kayaker also reported seeing what he thought was a great white in the bay (but this could have been a basking shark).

I seem to recall some funny threads a year or two ago about throwing a seal pattern. Peter, I'm sure you are prepared.

Tuna
06-15-2004, 05:31 PM
Hi Andy, if you mean by prepared that I carry a seal pattern, no, I generally leave it at home (its a Sopwith Camel, a real old Morey Pope 7 foot surf board, the last one I used to ride before morphing into more of a fishing nut than a surfing nut - in those days, a 7 foot board was considered small - to complete the pattern, I lie on the board in the water and splash my feet and hands).

AndyF
06-15-2004, 05:37 PM
Yes, I was thinking something like this:

tom crowley
06-15-2004, 06:41 PM
I have been fishing the east end for 35 yrs . I might worry about dangerous sharks around Gardiners or Plum Island .Other wish I spend lots of nights in Long Island sound never even think about them .Lets not blow it out of proportion

fmw
06-15-2004, 08:20 PM
Wow Andy, that must be a very large fly tying vise.

mctrout
06-15-2004, 08:23 PM
We mustve been on the same flat as we saw a bunch 0f good sized Dogs near Sag Harbor and for the first time one of them ate real agressively. even missed the small fly and hit it again.Andrew Derr was on the bow (from Urban Angler)and landed it like a champ. will post a pic the minute I get it from him. have thrown at tons of them and never had one eat. Have seen lots of brown and spotted tigers in Gardiners as well. up to about 6 feet. the trap that got the Great White was at fresh pond, last summer. 7 feet long and that is exactly where my very small "seal-sized" children where playing in the water EVERY day last summer. really freaky. anyway the fly-caught one was cool and will get the pic asap.
had a cool thing happen with a dink caught on a flat (24 inches) and a 36 incher followed it to the boat and stuck around and was kinda trying to push the fish up out of the water by its belly. it kept nosing it up for like a minute, really weird. what a weekend for the flats though, really outstanding. will post a few pics here as well
take care all
Brendan

Tuna
06-16-2004, 08:31 AM
Saw a reference to not blowing things out of proportion...

Yea, I saw some sharks and Dan saw a pretty big one.

From my surfing days, from the days my pop and brother used to dive, from walking the flats of Los Roques and having the guides yawn at sharks feet from our feet...

I did not mean to alarm anyone.

I assumed that the sharks did not pose a significant danger to me as I waded among them.

Generally, sharks don't attack people.

I just thought I would reality check my decision on this board and another.

I got some great feedback, which pretty much confirmed my assumptions.

I will continue to be aware of what's around me as I wade the next few weeks (before switching to fishing structure from my boat, as I generally do sometime in July). I will continue to try not to step on sharks and to keep my eyes open when landing fish.

Overall, I found the experience cool although it did raise the hair on the back of my head. Plus it made for a great email to my brother who is on vacation and demanded I give him some sight fishing stories.