ALbright rods

[eng5]

Is there someone out there that can give a thorough independent review of the Albright rods. Specifically the EXS. I have tried on other sites with no luck. I have cast them and they seem very nice, but I don't have the expertise to really go into the pro's and con's of the rods at this time

[sage fly guy]

I recently picked up both a 8 and 10 weight.

They sure do cast nice........................Now my problem.............In all honesty they seem to be a bit brittle..................After a day of fishing, left the rod strung in the truck. Next morning 20 month old grabs line and pulls, before I can stop him, SNAP!! first 8 inches gone. Oh well, off to Albright, 65$ and brand new rod. This weekend off Chatham, new 8 weight, 10# striper, half way through the battle, SNAP!!!.....................This has now gone from "Oh well", to "Miserable piece of $hiite". No high sticking, nothing worse than I do to the RPLXi when I'm casually fighting a fish, not putting the screws to it. Now another $65. Ouch.

I won't even get into the 10 weight.

That's 3 stick's returned @ $65.00 each.......$195.00 that's a new Xi2 blank.....Lesson learned.....Why drive a Geo when a Vette is in the garage.

Lesson learned

chris

[tsheehy]

Unfortunately, my experiences mirror Chris's. I posted the details and took some heat on one of the West Coast boards, so I'm almost a little relieved to hear that others had similar problems with these rods. Sorry to hear that you had to shell out the $65 each time though..

Anyhow, long story short I broke two #10 EXS rods within one week. One while fighting a fish, one while casting.. no high-sticking, no clousers, etc.. They cast nice, the components seem to be of good quality, but a little too brittle for me.

-- Tom

[sage fly guy]

Tom,

The truth be the truth.

And I feel it's more helpful than around the bush BS.


The West Coast Board(Dan Blanton's) is not going to encourage that kind of discussion about a sponsor's rod's snapping like twig's.

And yes, they snap like dry kindling...............at least for the 3 I've had. 0 for 3, no more Albright's...........

chris

[maineguideman]

Thats to bad I was considering Albright this spring But the 65 $ fee made me shy away. I went with TFO and I cant say enough about them. Its a great rod Co. I broke my 9wt doing somthing stupid when I sent it back I forgot to include the 25$ check and they shipped me a new one any way. Im sorry you had problems with Albright but man am I glad I didnt purchase 5 of them this spring.
Maybe you could unload the rods on E bay and try to get some of your money Back and move on.

[tc514]

Having recently purchased an Albright ESX 9' 5wt, I was somewhat freaked to read some of the reviews of these rods "snapping like twigs". So I put a call into Albright and the factory rep assured me this was very isolated and seemed to be posted by the same parties on web sites. He assured me their breakage rate was very low.
Being a skeptic, I came home and ran my own test. 25 times I laid it's tip over parallel as I would possibly in landing a Brown or Rainbow on NY's Delaware or Ausable Rivers. I figured If I were to break it, I would do it before I hit the water. Well.... while doing this repeatedly, I never heard a creak or got splinters. I have no doubt that this rod will perform well for me or anyone fishing these waters or species.
I have found this rod to cast very well and accuratly on wet grasses. Distance was accomplished with little effort compared to rods costing much more. Balance and swing weight are superb!
Oh yeah... like any performance rod.... they are breakable no doubt.
Hey... let's be real.... Albright is not about to sacrifice it's reputation with costistent failures.
I feel confident that that this rod will perform well and beyond for me and many others.
If you like a good feel, want distance and accuracy. Just test throw some line. If you're like me.... you will like this rod alot! And it won't break the bank!

[sage fly guy]

Very optimistic.

I guess your lawn test is probably a better indicator of the rods performance than the 2 I broke on the water and one in the car by a 2 year olds fearsome tug.. Two 8's and a 10 in a week?? You got to be kidding me.

I'd buy a TFO from Korea before I bought another Albright.

And I wonder why I have 10 RPLXI's and XI's??

chris

[tc514]

So sory you broke 2 rods. I personally have never broke one. Perhaps it's because of my age and a gentler stroke and landing. I did recently purchase a TFO PRO and returned it as I found it to stiff for my liking and stroke. Time will tell however if this rod holds up to the Browns and Rainbows on my home waters. Anybody can break a rod depending on technique and species. I feel your comments of "Are You Kidding" a bit unfair to a great designer. Perhaps some tweaking is in order and did find the 3rd guide down from the tip top a bit mis positioned and perhaps a weak point in flexing. Still in my dry flexing, I found no other weak points. Time on the water will tell the truth. Winter is now setting in here but can still fish no kill areas on boundary waters with Pennsylvania. Perhaps a good size Brown or Rainbow with temps in the teens will cause a failure..... and yes I will report. But for now.... from what I can determine.... my rod seems to be strong, felxible without flaw, acurate and very comfortable. So no, i'm not kidding. And yes, I am confused and concerned as to why 2 rods broke for you. Still I can't imagine Albright knowingly selling knowingly defective rods. I work in the Automotive service industry and have often been asked why this or that failed. My reply has been because they are built in Detroit.... not Heaven. With anything you buy today.... there will be a certain failure rate. Quality Controll may perhaps be an issue here and I am anxious to put it through it's paces. These are made in Korea.... not Heaven.

[tc514]

Hey Chris.... Apologies if I seemed to come across as being overly defensive. The reality is however, that we live in a world of comodities, and nothing built by man is without some flaw. Look at today's finest Bamboo rods.... supplied with two tips. Seems they know we will break one in its learning curve. I have no answer for your breakage..... workmanship.... early production..... poor QC? Anyway.... I wish you the best on the water!

[tsheehy]

TC514,

First off, welcome to Reel-Time. :rolleyes:

What response did you expect from your post? You dig up a 3 month old thread to tell us you did some lawn casting, spoke to the Albright sales rep and wrestled the rod around your living room. Then you launch into an Albright commercial on their quality based on this vast experience?

I can't speak for Chris, but I certainly don't think that all Albright rods are junk - maybe we got a bad batch, or maybe they have made improvements based on the failures in the field. Who knows?

Only time will tell if these were isolated experiences - but its a big market out there and I'm not willing to invest any more money to find out.

-- Tom

[tc514]

Just curious. Why do you need to own 10 RPLXI's and XI's.?
Is not one or two fine rods enough?
A guess is that they are all different weights? Perhaps narrow of me as I fish only Trout.
Do hope not to drive a wedge between us fishermen. Our enviroment now needs all sportsmen to find a common ground and hang tough together.

[tc514]

Tom,
Really didn't expect too much of a response. Just felt that my findings were different from those posted. And I also felt it a bit unfair..... Damn.... every company at one time or another will have some problem. but without some response will never know what to correct. Note that I found mis-positioned guide.
Also felt no one else offered constructive critism as to a problem area.... just put down as will never buy again.
As Sportsmen, we owe it to the people that serve us to give construstive critisim in hopes that they will serve us better without draining our pocketbooks.

[tc514]

Hi Tom,
Sorry if you were offended in me diging up an old thread. I am new here and was searching for feedback on Albright. Had I known some would take offense, maybe I would have left it alone...... maybe? Reading back I really don't think I sounded like an Albright commercial. Just stated my findings and thoughts.

[RogerStg]

tc514,
This may or may not be true, but you definitely come off like a shill for Albright at worse and naive and inexperienced at best.

Some shill items and comments:
-First posts are to dig up an old thread and jump to a company's defense. :rolleyes:
"Hey... let's be real.... Albright is not about to sacrifice its reputation with consistent failures" (Isn't the company run by the same fella that couldn't get the QC right with a bunch of reels :eek: )
"If you like a good feel, want distance and accuracy. Just test throw some line. If you're like me.... you will like this rod alot! And it won't break the bank!"

Naive and inexperienced:
-The fact that you draw conclusions about a company and product without really using it and have no experience in the context where most failures occurred (saltwater fishing). Casting on a lawn is like test driving a car in a crowded parking lot; it tells you something, but not much.
-You took the factory rep at face value. :confused: If the rods were junk, would he tell you that? I don't think so.

So, if you're not a shill, hang around and enjoy the information and banter ;) . If you are, we've got your number. --123-3

[sage fly guy]

So sory you broke 2 rods. I personally have never broke one. Perhaps it's because of my age and a gentler stroke and landing. I did recently purchase a TFO PRO and returned it as I found it to stiff for my liking and stroke. Time will tell however if this rod holds up to the Browns and Rainbows on my home waters. Anybody can break a rod depending on technique and species. I feel your comments of "Are You Kidding" a bit unfair to a great designer. Perhaps some tweaking is in order and did find the 3rd guide down from the tip top a bit mis positioned and perhaps a weak point in flexing. Still in my dry flexing, I found no other weak points. Time on the water will tell the truth. Winter is now setting in here but can still fish no kill areas on boundary waters with Pennsylvania. Perhaps a good size Brown or Rainbow with temps in the teens will cause a failure..... and yes I will report. But for now.... from what I can determine.... my rod seems to be strong, felxible without flaw, acurate and very comfortable. So no, i'm not kidding. And yes, I am confused and concerned as to why 2 rods broke for you. Still I can't imagine Albright knowingly selling knowingly defective rods. I work in the Automotive service industry and have often been asked why this or that failed. My reply has been because they are built in Detroit.... not Heaven. With anything you buy today.... there will be a certain failure rate. Quality Controll may perhaps be an issue here and I am anxious to put it through it's paces. These are made in Korea.... not Heaven.


"Just curious. Why do you need to own 10 RPLXI's and XI's.?
Is not one or two fine rods enough?
A guess is that they are all different weights? Perhaps narrow of me as I fish only Trout.
Do hope not to drive a wedge between us fishermen. Our enviroment now needs all sportsmen to find a common ground and hang tough together."
Posted by tc514


Is Jim Murphy related to you, married to your sister or something??

I tell it like it is, if I buy a rod and it performs well I tout it till the cows come home. If it sucks, then I report that also. I always felt that one of the fallacies in the fly fishiing equipment area is this unwritten "Tell no evil" about specific brands.

I own close to 30 fly rods. Why? Because. I build them myself and like to cover every application from 7 to 19 weight and everything in between. And I have a disease.

If you notice I did not start the thread about the Albright's performance, merely gave my real world opinion. NOT an opinion formulated from casting on my front lawn for 10 minutes, but from on the water usage. When I'm striper fishing and not one but 2 rods blow up on me in consectutive days, I consider that particular rod to be a piece of shiite. And when opinions are asked, will call it such. If someone posted about the performance of a 10 weight XI2, I would relay my OTW experience with them. Although with SAGE defending the industry's leader isn't necessary. I own 6-7 different companies rods and would willing telll anyone who asks about each of them.

Perhaps it's just a bad run of blanks or some intial kinks in the models. Bull, they are brittle rods. They look awesome, cast incredible and break. End of story. Three of them broke on me in a week. When the 10 weight blew up in the middle of a epic day of Chatham the only thing that kept me from tossing it in the water was the Old Florida Nautilus attached to it.

It's not all peaches and cream with fly rods, if more actual reports were given by fly fishermen instead of lawn casters I think we all would be better off. Some are good, some are great, some cast better than others, some have a stronger butt section for fighting and some just plain suck.

chris

[JimMurphy]

60% of all the rods broken at Redington and at Albright are broken buy guys who have already broken their first rod. Sageflyguy likes the truth and there it is. All the manufacturers are reeling from this kind of statistic.

[tsheehy]

Wow.

Jim, I spoke with you at one of the fly shows, and that conversation actually influenced me to purchase one of your rods. I appreciated what you were/are trying to do with Albright.

That being said, you just missed a great opportunity to squelch this negative feedback, and instead decided to go after one of the people who reported a problem with your product.

You could have stated how seriously you took these failures, what you did to investigate the root cause, and what you did to prevent this from happening again. You could have stated that the failures were an isolated incident due to a bad batch of epoxy/graphite or a small run of rods that had a manufacturing defect that has since been corrected. You could have given us some statistics on the overall return/breakage rates on your rods.

You could have said a lot that would have gone a long way to restoring confidence in your product - but you didn't.

Good luck,

-- Tom

[ruge13]

60% of all the rods broken at Redington and at Albright are broken buy guys who have already broken their first rod.Now you have my attention. Could you elaborate on this statistic? Reason I ask is...
When I read this quote, what this tells me is that the "industry" ignores statistics, or at least discounts them, when an owner of a particular model has breakage issues consistantly.

I would assume that the statistic is weighted somewhat to rule out the impact by people who cast incorectly or generally neglect or abuse products vs. those who legitamtely use the products and experience failures due to poor fabrication.

[jkrogers]

Captured this off another forum; Just FYI

Good Discussion:

Jerald


Design Goal:
"To construct a high performance fly rod with the sensitivity, lightness-in-hand and a swing weight that rivals the best rods available today. Also, to introduce a new level of durability that will address the continuing breakage rate problems and poor impact resistance of this high performance class of fly rods.
Materials opportunity:
Using new materials for scrim available from the aircraft industry for bullet proofing fuselages we sourced a non-woven scrim with appropriate aerial weights (grams of scrim per square meter) for use as the final material wrap around a high modulus graphite core. We tested Kevlar, s-glass, carbon and fused silicate for specific application to our design criteria and found the fused silicate to satisfy the Design Control Criteria.

Tapers and actions:
Fused silicate is the most appropriate material as it can be easily tacked to prepreg and the light aerial weight non-woven configuration does not crack or buckle given the narrow diameters of fine tapers necessary for sensitivity and tip casting The actions of light rods until now tend to require line overload and then hinge at high-speed distance casting. The fused silicate and high modulus core construction allowed us to build a fast, durable and light rod that will load properly at all distances.

Durability:
Impact resistance tests address the tendency of carbon to fail at light impact. Non-woven fused silicate scrim is a high density ceramic designed by the military to address the specific failure of carbon in this instance. By a factor of four the impact resistance of the rod is improved by the external scrim application.
Dead lift tests and term stress in both destructive and non-destructive testing show a 15-20% improvement in strength. This is at least partially attributable to the thicker walls we can build with a much more efficient weight per strength value.


Plans for the future:
We are currently developing four piece EXS rods to be available to the market in early Spring. We are also working on conventional surf, offshore and spin and casting rods using this new material configuration. These models will be introduced in Fall '04." ~ Jim Murphy, Albright Tackle

[JimMurphy]

I posted a remark that talks about how we are always concerned about any breakage. It is on another string at reel-time that has also mentioned the breakage issue.
All rod makers are up against very tight constraints measuring performance and durability. There is no question that a rod company that builds rods that are described as brittle hasn't got a chance of survival.
I have always been careful of what I say on these boards, but the warranty is an ugly subject and after supervising the construction of many tens of thousands of rods and having twelve years of statistics on rod breakage I will still be a bit more circumspect in my public comment.
To date the EXS rods have suffered 19 breakages in the saltwater range, this is a trace percentage. If someone gets on this page and speaks positively he is called a shill. If another web page does not say negative things it is held suspect (all in one thread). There is nothing new about this process on the web, but every once in a while I respond with facts based on careful experience based on specific internal data. I am not covered by the warranty and no one has the level of risk and exposure as todays rod builders

[RogerStg]

JimMurphy - “To date the EXS rods have suffered 19 breakages in the saltwater range”
Only 19? :confused: And to think, 5 of them (26%) happened to two Reel Timers that bothered to disclose it. Unless, maybe you consider saltwater range 12 wt and above? :rolleyes:

JimMurphy - “If someone gets on this page and speaks positively he is called a shill. If another web page does not say negative things it is held suspect (all in one thread).”
How you perform business suicide is up to you, but implying that this community of fisherman is a bunch of naysayers is not warranted, and not prudent. There have been many positive thoughts expressed on these forums. However, I think that any reasonable person would see through the ruse of resurrecting 2 long dead threads for damage control purposes. On the other hand, if it’s your position that Albright rods are best suited for casting on wet grass instead of striper fishing, then please accept my apologies.

JimMurphy - “There is no question that a rod company that builds rods that are described as brittle hasn't got a chance of survival.”
That seems to be clear motivation for you to say anything to hide the truth. (I'm having a flashback to the Redington AL fiasco :eek: )

FWIW, your own business decisions promote the suspicion that your rods are brittle. Why else would third tier company charge the highest rate in the industry for warranty returns? (#$119) By doing so, YOU'VE told the buying public that YOU have NO FAITH in your product.

[JimMurphy]

I am not sophisticated or patient enough to be posting here. I bow out. I am going fishing. Snook are on the docks.

[sage fly guy]

I am not sophisticated or patient enough to be posting here. I bow out. I am going fishing. Snook are on the docks.

Bring a SAGE or you might need $65.00. ;)

[sage fly guy]

Now you have my attention. Could you elaborate on this statistic? Reason I ask is...
When I read this quote, what this tells me is that the "industry" ignores statistics, or at least discounts them, when an owner of a particular model has breakage issues consistantly.

I would assume that the statistic is weighted somewhat to rule out the impact by people who cast incorectly or generally neglect or abuse products vs. those who legitamtely use the products and experience failures due to poor fabrication.

Shaun,

You edited before I could pull off your first quote.

Mr Murphy has more pressing needs than his own product line. No more snips and snipes, here is my story of the Albright EXS.

Normally I would say that a rod breakage in my hands would be nobodies fault but mine. I treat my rods the way most people would a stray racoon. When I hook a fish, whether on spin/fly/conventional I immediately go to MAX drag. And then when the plates heat up, alittle more. I don't want an epic hour long battle only to loose the fish to a pulled hook at the finale. I want to know in the first minute if the hookset is good or not. I try to as hard as I can to break each and every rod into a gazillion pieces on each and every fish. I need to know that my tackle will stand up to what I want it to do.



Here's the scoop on my 3 Albright breakage's. I broke 3 of 19, do I get some kind of Razzy Award or something.

1)Brand new 8 weight EXS rigged and ready laying back to front in the Exploder. Two year old in teh middle car seat starts tugging ono the line. Do I get mad, pull over, beat him liek amutant red headed step child. NO. He does this to every rod I leave in the car. Every day 7 months out of the year one or two are in there. This time I hear "SNAP". Oh well, I guess the little monster is getting stronger.

Go to my local fly shop and pick up a replacement 8 and a new 10.

2)Off Chatham in July, epic day. Fishing with my brother and a friend. My brother doesn't get out much and we kind of cater to get him on fish. Using just spin gear we put 30 keeper + size fish in the boat. I can't stand it anymore. Out comes my shiny new Albright EXS 8 weight with my favorite reel in the world, Valentine PL-9. Floating line with a Rainey's popper. Immediately land 2 fish in the 32-34" range. Topwater. It doesn't get any better than this. Third fish is smaller, comes in easier. Makes a run when it sees the boat, 15' into the run, SNAP, CRACKLE, KERPLASH. Shatters. Splinter's. Destroyed. My brother and friend look at me as I stand there with that Homer Simpson look. "Dooooh".

3)Out comes the serious whoopin stick I should have been using in the first place. Ten weight Albright EXS matched with a new Old Florida Nautilus. I prepare to put a hurtin' of epic proportions on the Striped Bass population of the Atlantic. Second, 2nd, #2, second back cast SNAP!!!!!!!!!!! Breaks clean. My blood pressure hits 3000 PSI in a heart beat. If a $500 reel wasn't attached to that stick it was going into the ocean. HOLY SHIITE, I can't even fathom what just happened. Luckily I had my trusty old Fisher with me to keep it going.

Luckily I shop at the best fly shop in the world, and they take back these 2 pieces of junk. No questions asked.

And you know we shot some video of that day and I went back and looked at it recently. I must have saw myself doing 2, maybe 3000 things wrong casting and fighting fish with that 8 weight.

I guess I better learn to fly cast and fight fish all over again. But I won't be doing it with an inferior product.


chris

As a point of fact, I own more rods than I can count. Sage, Cape Fear, St. Croix, Fisher, Loomis, Redington's. Never have broken one OTW.

I have a Redington NTiQ which is supposedly the same stick as the EXS. PLEASE don't tell my NTiQ that. Next time I turn it into a pretzel turning a 100# bluedog it might just go Albright on me.

[Slinger]

Add another to the list of broken Albrights. Won at a raffel at the Bears Den last winter, blew up the first time used.
Slinger
PS If you want to talk about some real crap, mention Elkhorn.

[sage fly guy]

Add another to the list of broken Albrights. Won at a raffel at the Bears Den last winter, blew up the first time used.
Slinger
PS If you want to talk about some real crap, mention Elkhorn.


So let's get the number's straight.

Six of the nineteen broken Albright's in the WHOLE world came from Reel-time member's??

We must be the worst bunch of fly fisherman in the world...........Or maybe we fish for all we are worth on any given day, because the good lord knows it may be our last here on earth. And just happen to have choosen inferior equipment on that day.

I'll not make that mistake ever again.

chris

[tc514]

Well... It seems i've unintentionally opened a can of worms! First let me say.... I am not a shill! Second.... I am not inexpierenced. I grew up on the East Branch of the Delaware River when Bamboo and Glass were the only choices.... a time when you could travel the entire section on a good day and maybe see 6 fishermen. Here trout are measured in inches rather than pounds. I fished here and its feeder streams throught my youth with good success. Often witnessed cooler pools with hundreds of trout stressed and stacked...... this was a time to leave them be.
Well life changed here and I took a very long break. I was absent from the water for many years. But like riding a bike..... you never forget. Yes I am happy now that life is slowing back and I can re-capture those past feelings. Little in life is as satisfying as being on the water... knowing the hatch and hooking up with a fly you tied yourself.
OK so I was wrong to even come here and post a comment on a site for totally different type of fishing.
Still I know that had I flexed earlier Bamboo or Glass rods in the manner as I did the ESX..... I surely would have had a splintered mess. As for lawn casting... well happy to say that was able to reach out 54 feet without a heavy double haul. This is just about right for the Delaware and Ausable River.
In retrospect I feel you have not read into what I was trying to say.... rather labeled me a shill and held your findings without regard. Remember.... Trout measured in inches rather than pounds, 5wt 6 at most. Good fights but not those as powerfull as those you chalenge. Just a good time on the water. Much of the fun here too is in the study of entimology.... knowing whats on the water and when.
I wish you well and perhaps one day I will tear into something as you. Not really likely though as there is enough here for a lifetime of learning.
Respectfully
T

[tc514]

If you would also note that I came to this site via an internet search that did not spell out Salt Water applications or a date of last post. So in reality, I had little idea of your applications or that I was digging up an old thread.
T

[RogerStg]

I had little idea of your applications or that I was digging up an old thread.

Well live and learn. Sounds like you're back in the game after a long hiatus and lots has changed (mostly for the better). After a while, go back and re-read the thread. You'll understand what happened, and that folks here can only take what's written within the context of this place and can't "read into what you are saying" unless you write it.

I suspect you also don't know about the Nano titanium breakage problems - massive, or the AL reels with the miserable bearings and corrosion issues. All brought to us courtesy of Mr. Murphy, now of Albright.

Even though you think you'll stick to freshwater, if you're ever visiting the Rhode Island area, look me up. I too have far more rods than I need :rolleyes: and can easliy supply all the equipment for a salt water fishing excursion together.

[tc514]

Roger... Thanks for the offer and perhaps one day I will take you up on it? Oh Yes things are much different on salt water I do understand.
Should you ever come to my neck of the woods.... and although you may do better in a drift boat guide service...... I can show you some very good places on the Delaware., Beaverkill or Willowemoc.... all walkable, the Ausable needs no guide.... the pocket waters are everywhere and hold some very nice Rainbows and Browns.
I am curious as to what your catch is? Hooking up with something bigger and stronger sure sounds like a good time!
T

[RogerStg]

I am curious as to what your catch is? Hooking up with something bigger and stronger sure sounds like a good time!
T

It depends on the time of year, but mostly striped bass and bluefish. Pound for pound the bluefish put up a better fight. They are so ornery. Imagine 5 to 15 pound piranha.

Thanks for the kind offer as well. I might take you up on it next summer. I'll PM you my contact info.

[sweet+salt]

Well a regular reel-time buddy, aware that I've added several EXS's to my quiver, told me of this Albright dialog. After reading 3 pages of it I am not sure why I am contributing to it (guys with a well known brand of fly rods in their handle are calling others 'shills'?) but I love rods so here's my cast.

Rods are like cars...don't drive your BoxterS down rutted tracks & the 4Runner sucks in the twisties. Besides the obvious need for multiple rods lest ones' 2 year-old yanks on one (especially if you are at a detination where no fly shops are available - say the Bahamas for example) the same 8 wt. that is optimal for for presenting small flies knoted to 16' leaders when stalking bonefish or striped bass on the flats is not the 8 wt. of choice when banging around in a boat flinging weighted flies in deeper water to these same two species. The high performance model will utilize a smaller diameter, thiner walled design featuring high modulous materials to enhance the line speed, accuracy of tracking and communicative feel prized when sight fishing. The boat rod meanwhile might be clunkier and rugged employing fiberglass scrim in a beefier thick walled design. Both type rods can be a blast to fish with on the same trip under the varying conditions the oceanic environment offers.

The Albright EXS rods like their Redington predessesors, the Nti's or "Nanos", are the sports car rods. Lots of accuracy and distance capability with the heart to allow you to feel the line's movement more than the rod's mass. The extrnal skeleton of ceramic tape seems to have toughened up the EXS's blank from impact and in fishing the excelent 5 wt. model for a month in Montana and the 7, 8 & 9 wts. in the Bahamas, Florida Keys and East End of Long Island, no brown, bonefish, bass or albie has broken one in my hand. Only in attempting to land a well-over-a-100 lb. tarpon has one of these new Albrights broken on me and this on a trip on which 3 TFO's: 2 #12's & 1 #14 exploded into fragments as well! The one rod left standing after a week of killer giant tarpon fishing...my 'sport utility vehicle' rod, a Vermont-built Diamondback "Stu Apte" #12 with a broad, thick-walled blank built over a fiberglall-scrimed foundation - a real Hummer (but the EXS cast oh so much more pleasurably).

I like these new Albright EXS rods a lot and I also appreciate having the significant cost saving of not having an un-conditional replacement guarantee built into the price passed allong to me. However, as fare as guarentees go: do any of you know of a single malt distiller that offers one...dear sirs, this bootle was compleatly full when I bought it. Now look at its emptyness! Please repalce or refill at your discretion. Sincerly, an advocate in owning mutiple rods, reels and lines, enjoying the introduction of inovative designs and materials and in treating my equipment and the environment responsably.

[Slappy]

sweet+salt

Great first post! An ode to our fishing rods! Sounds like a good thread topic!

I have the same sports car/utility vehicle approach, great explanation.

[sage fly guy]

Well a regular reel-time buddy, aware that I've added several EXS's to my quiver, told me of this Albright dialog. After reading 3 pages of it I am not sure why I am contributing to it (guys with a well known brand of fly rods in their handle are calling others 'shills'?) but I love rods so here's my cast.


Rods are like cars...don't drive your BoxterS down rutted tracks & the 4Runner sucks in the twisties. Besides the obvious need for multiple rods lest ones' 2 year-old yanks on one (especially if you are at a detination where no fly shops are available - say the Bahamas for example) the same 8 wt. that is optimal for for presenting small flies knoted to 16' leaders when stalking bonefish or striped bass on the flats is not the 8 wt. of choice when banging around in a boat flinging weighted flies in deeper water to these same two species. The high performance model will utilize a smaller diameter, thiner walled design featuring high modulous materials to enhance the line speed, accuracy of tracking and communicative feel prized when sight fishing. The boat rod meanwhile might be clunkier and rugged employing fiberglass scrim in a beefier thick walled design. Both type rods can be a blast to fish with on the same trip under the varying conditions the oceanic environment offers.

The Albright EXS rods like their Redington predessesors, the Nti's or "Nanos", are the sports car rods. Lots of accuracy and distance capability with the heart to allow you to feel the line's movement more than the rod's mass. The extrnal skeleton of ceramic tape seems to have toughened up the EXS's blank from impact and in fishing the excelent 5 wt. model for a month in Montana and the 7, 8 & 9 wts. in the Bahamas, Florida Keys and East End of Long Island, no brown, bonefish, bass or albie has broken one in my hand. Only in attempting to land a well-over-a-100 lb. tarpon has one of these new Albrights broken on me and this on a trip on which 3 TFO's: 2 #12's & 1 #14 exploded into fragments as well! The one rod left standing after a week of killer giant tarpon fishing...my 'sport utility vehicle' rod, a Vermont-built Diamondback "Stu Apte" #12 with a broad, thick-walled blank built over a fiberglall-scrimed foundation - a real Hummer (but the EXS cast oh so much more pleasurably).

I like these new Albright EXS rods a lot and I also appreciate having the significant cost saving of not having an un-conditional replacement guarantee built into the price passed allong to me. However, as fare as guarentees go: do any of you know of a single malt distiller that offers one...dear sirs, this bootle was compleatly full when I bought it. Now look at its emptyness! Please repalce or refill at your discretion. Sincerly, an advocate in owning mutiple rods, reels and lines, enjoying the introduction of inovative designs and materials and in treating my equipment and the environment responsably.




Thanks for joining. With your first paragraph you promptly cast aspersion's and dim any credibility you may have brought to the table. Oh well. Let's continue.

Second paragraph. To consider the Albright a "high" performance model of fly rods is to slander companies such as T&T, Sage, Winston, Loomis and others.

Consider this from Albright's own web page:

"EXS - Fused Silicate-HM Graphite Core-Exterior Scrim

This is exactly what we are talking about. A breakthrough material-science that doesn’t just make the rods lighter, more responsive and powerful, it makes them durable. Our proprietary FS-Glass External Scrim (EXS) protects the high modulus graphite core so you have great longitudinal load and stretch. The final wrap is a fused silicate (FS) that provides a whole new level of impact resistance. The moderate price is the sound of the second foot dropping. Innovation that is affordable. That is what we are talking about."

A rod with a thinner graphite core sheathed on the outside with silica carries with it a couple of inherent problems. The first is the bane of every rod maker. The second, just Albright.

Thinner graphite core=Extemely poor hoop strength. Hoop strength as it pertains to fly rods is the ability of a said rod, when under load to avoid breakage. As a fly rod is bent it doesn't retain it's nice round shape, it begins to go oval. Thin walled construction leads to poor hoop strength and thus catastrophic rod failure. Early TFO's suffered this same problem and the next progressive lines corrected this problem with thicker walls. The outer scrim does nothing for strength. GUSA combats this problem using it's double helix technology, Cape Fear, it's Hextek. All other rod maker's tread a thin line on wall constuction.

Fused silica scrim=Extremely good protection from clouser eyes. Oh yeah, one more thing, EXTREMELY brittle. While the outer quartz does offer impact resistance, it does nothing to add strength to the rod itself. This is the problem that befell the NTiQ. Phenomenal casting rods, punch a hole into 30 MPH winds. But sadly broke like match sticks under load.

Consider the very basic properties of Quartz itself. On the Moh's hardness scale it carries a rating of 7. Excellent hardness rating. Diamond being the apex of hardness at 10. Perfect for deflecting wayward flies. Regrettably quartz by it's very nature suffers in the fracture resistance department. It's structure is considered conchoidal(chips) and brittle. Not what I want in a stick when a 100# tarpon is pulling on the other end, but you already knew that.

With your Albright breakage that brings the total to 7 of the 19 that have broken worldwide from Reel-time members.. Let's see if we can get 19 for 19 and have a reunion.



The technology used in these rods is indeed space age and cutting edge. And also at an attractive price. Hmmmmm, reminds of a car, what was it called??????? Oh yeah, YUGO.


chris

[rhino]

Tom,

The truth be the truth.

And I feel it's more helpful than around the bush BS.


The West Coast Board(Dan Blanton's) is not going to encourage that kind of discussion about a sponsor's rod's snapping like twig's.

And yes, they snap like dry kindling...............at least for the 3 I've had. 0 for 3, no more Albright's...........

chris


at least chris has the guts to say what rods are good and bad on this web site . been to a couple that don't have the nutz to speak up because they are sponcered by one of those companys.me i have a local shop that does not like harris because he has had so many problems with the reels funny think is he is a michigan retailer.and they call it the michigan abel


any ways good luck and very tight lines rhino --123-3

[jkrogers]

chris,

my hats off to you, GREAT JOB on the explanation of a graphite rod, I am learning more each day from this site.

Thanks,

jr

[RogerStg]

Hmm, I wasn't aware that my I have a well known rod company in my handle :rolleyes:

S&S, It's funny that you didn't mention your buddy's handle. :rolleyes:
It's also curious that he didn't join the discussion. :rolleyes:

I remain skeptical of anyone whose first post is to tout a product. Sometimes I'm wrong, but usually it's just another form of spam.

[sweet+salt]

Dear Sage Fly Guy & others,

It was not my intention to cast dispersions on any rod maker. I consider us super lucky to have so many terrific rods to choose from. As I said, I am an advocate of fishing a wide range of rods under varying conditions. Personally I consider Loomis' GLX line to be benchmark products and have been hip to Jim Green's former work at Sage since...well, since it was Fenwick. Scott, whoes founder, Harry Wilson, initiated the concept of the modern graphite idiom of longer (mostly 9') lengths and lighter line sizes relative to cane, glass or the earliest graphite rods of 1974 - 1978, continues to produce very high quality rods today.

Both Lamborghinis and Miatas are sports cars though their prices are at opposit ends of the spectrum amd some terrificly engineered and expensive Mercedes Benzes are built like and drive like tanks. So "quality" and "performance" which are both important are not necessarily synominous. Yes, I consider Albright's EXS rods to be high performance models as defined in my initial remarks concerning lightness and crisply communicative responsivness. Their advanced taper and material design and off-shore source pricing sugest they be equated with, perhaps, a Honda S2000. I suspect that any skilled angler who fishes one of these rods will, like me, be impressed with their casting and presentation performance regardless of their modest price.

Regarding issues like hoop strength and sheer point, internal verses external scrim, modulus of elasticity, matrix integrity, wall thickness and density, not to mention taper design, like you, Sage Fly Guy, I too have read of and asked questions of rod designers with enthusiasim. I am not, however, a composits engineer but a fellow who likes to be on the water stroking something between a 4 and a 12 wt. through the air. I rely on the material expertise and creativity of rod designers/fabricators to get the technical stuff right so I can enhance my angling experience with a great performing fly rod.

I am fortunate to be able to add a few new rods to my arsenal every season and use them in more diverse environments than most folks get to visit. Though I travel with rods from a variety of makers and have had favorite model lines come and go over the years, I have developed a healthy respect for the creative rod production accomplisments of first Redington and now Albright. It is too bad about the run of breakage you have experienced. I too have had a small number of sticks, including some from the most highly renowned manufacturers, catastrophicly fail while I was fighting a big one. I can't rule out boating damage in one case or unbrideled enthusiasim in my previously refered to tarpon incident. However, I believe you may have performed a misservice to our fellow rod enthusiasts who have been following posts in this forum long before I read it for the first time yesterday. Simply put: I don't believe any other fly rod model line, even from the most venerable of American manufacturers, offers the performance to price ratio of these EXS rods. Remember though, these are sports car-type rods, for sinking line, weighted herring fly flinging a more truck-like rod might be appropriate.

[sage fly guy]

Regarding issues like hoop strength and sheer point, internal verses external scrim, modulus of elasticity, matrix integrity, wall thickness and density, not to mention taper design, like you, Sage Fly Guy, I too have read of and asked questions of rod designers with enthusiasim. I am not, however, a composits engineer but a fellow who likes to be on the water stroking something between a 4 and a 12 wt. through the air. I rely on the material expertise and creativity of rod designers/fabricators to get the technical stuff right so I can enhance my angling experience with a great performing fly rod.

However, I believe you may have performed a misservice to our fellow rod enthusiasts who have been following posts in this forum long before I read it for the first time yesterday. Simply put: I don't believe any other fly rod model line, even from the most venerable of American manufacturers, offers the performance to price ratio of these EXS rods. Remember though, these are sports car-type rods, for sinking line, weighted herring fly flinging a more truck-like rod might be appropriate.


Excellent debate.

I don't start these thread's, just offer my real world experience and input. Fellow asks about Shimano Sphero's reels further down. I think, hey I use those reels and they rock. I'll pass along my real world report of them. If they smoked pole, I would pass that along. If someone asked about Islander reels, I would offer no opinion as I have never fished one. Anything I might think I know about Islander reels would just be heresay and supposition.

Tackle is just a tool for a job. The job being catching striper's, blues, albies, tuna, sharks. I do not test it on the lawn, my opinion comes from trying, yes trying to break the rod and strip the drag on each and every fish. I need to know that when the game is on the line, I have Mariano Rivera on the mound and not Heathcliff Sloccumb.

I must have intitally miscommunicated my point. These Albright EXS stix are among the most handsome I have ever seen. Fit and finish well above what you come to expect from overseas. They cast as well as my RPLXi's.

BUT, when put to use OTW in real world situations, I had 2 fail on me in the same afternoon. So when a fellow Reel-timer asks about them, I convey my experience's with them. Good or bad. If that's doing a misservice to fellow board member, so be it. As you stated, you have to rely on the designers/fabricators to get the stix right. So in essence your putting your hard earned dollars into their pockets based on their word. But when a real world report actually comes to light, it's considered to be poor in taste and bashing. I say BS. I wish more honest opinion were posted about fly rods, fly gear in general. Shimano 50 wides cost less than an ABEL fly reel, come on?? But no, let's treat that subject with kid gloves. God forbid the truth ever got out about those $25.00 rods from Korea.

I can't type no more.

chris

[sweet+salt]

[QUOTE=sage fly guy]Excellent debate.

Tackle is just a tool for a job. The job being catching striper's, blues, albies, tuna, sharks. I do not test it on the lawn, my opinion comes from trying, yes trying to break the rod and strip the drag on each and every fish. I need to know that when the game is on the line, I have Mariano Rivera on the mound and not Heathcliff Sloccumb.

I must have intitally miscommunicated my point. These Albright EXS stix are among the most handsome I have ever seen. Fit and finish well above what you come to expect from overseas. They cast as well as my RPLXi's.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sage Fly Guy & All,

I couldn't agree with you more regarding the rarity of honestly unbiased critical reviewing of tackle. To continue my automotive analogy: Only mags. like AutoWeek or Car & Driver seem able to publish, "this new Ford's transmission sucks..." and on the opposit page is a full bleed Ford add. But those professional journalists genuinly understand the technical issues with that transmission... Perhaps it is my love of trout, salmon, steelhead and bonefish on relativly light fly rods, but I regard the actual battle with any gamefish as a delicatly balanced give-and-take artform. Yes I intend to land my quarry as quickly as possible so as to release them safely, but I try NOT to break my rod in the process. To the contrary, I allow the reel's drag setting to do a lot of the work and keep my rod arched no more than 45 degrees above parallel to the water. When applying side pressure I rotate the rod so as to keep the guides alligned with the fish's pull so as not to torque the rod off-spline. Its not my thing but I have done a little bit of stand-up tuna fishing and understand fully how hard one can pull on a fish and still lose line. Saltwater fly fishing for big powerfull sea-dwelling beasts entail a lot of refinment. The stoutest tarpon/tuna rods in my arsenal that go back to the Orvis 60%boron-40%graphite broom sticks of the mid 1980's and the great, stiff Sage RPL's of the later 80's are delicate wands compared to a "light" #50, 5' stand-up stick. Our contemporary super-high modulus big game fly rods of this season are far more enjoyable to fish than those older rods that were intentionally biased towards lifting rather than casting, but they require a certain finess...they are fly fishing rods.

Perhaps the fundimental thing that I dissagree with you on, Sage Fly Guy, is the idea that a fly rod is just a tool to get a job done and that one angler's one-day experience constitutes an objective critical review. Many a fine day has seen me do more casting than catching making me appreciate all the more the performance and aesthetic qualities of my rods.

This dialog began with a question about experience with Albright EXS rods. I will end by saying that though I did have one rod break in a tarpon situation where three other rods were broken as well, the #'s 5, 7, 8 & 9 that I have used extensivly since last April have performed flawlessly. The reel seats have not jamed nor corroded, the guides are appropriatly oversived for salt water use and also are well sealed by rod-wrap finish and have also experienced no corrosion (a common problem in some other high-end rods), the rounded triangular cross section of the cordura covered rod tubes makes them less prone to rolling about in my fish car and, finally, after catching countless bonefish, bass, blues and albies on EXS's (often with alternative rods of my own or my angling companions around to compare them to) I consider these rods to be nipping at the heels of the best rods costing twice as much in casting and fish fighting enjoyment and better than some others considered to be at the high end.

[mike kelly]

[Many a fine day has seen me do more casting than catching making me appreciate all the more the performance and aesthetic qualities of my rods.

Awesome, next time i plan a day like this i'll pick up one of these rods, until then sure sounds like there's STILL no such thing as a free lunch --123-3

[sage fly guy]

Ahhhhhh, guys who just appreciate a day of casting.

Now I get it, the movie made you start flyfishing.

;) --127-3- ;) --127-3-



chris

[Bonefish]

I was sad to see Redington secumb to SAGE, I felt like Redington was really making breakthroughs, but alas, why become better than your competition when you can just eliminate them.

I own quite a few NTI's and have only broken one, which by confession was by user error. The NTI is a true pleasure to cast, the only rods I have found to be comparable are the matte finish GLX's and the Sage TCRs.

I love the way the EXS's cast, I'm glad Jim Murphy resurrected the technology. I have had no problems with breakage, my only grevience with the company is that my wife gave me a saltwater 4 piece 6 weight EXS for our anniversary that was suppose to arrive in early November, and I have yet to receive it.

On another note, I'm glad SAGE got rid of the RPLXi. Work horse of a rod, but cast like a worn out shoe. Never had a real affinity for SAGE, that is, except for the TCR, really like that one.

[tc514]

Well Sage Fly Guy
I wonder, given your name if you are a SHILL for Sage.
.
Haul them in with your broom stick if you will.
T

[tc514]

Do you know your querry and what they are feeding on? or is it just something fancy to get their attention? I suspect you could never do well here in cold water fisheries. Thank God for that. A lifetime of study and you may well still come up empty handed. You may know the hatch..... if not presented properly...... you're skuned!. There is no margin for error here!
T

[sage fly guy]

Stunning commentary.

I've fished freshwater for oh, I don't know the past 35 years, but one thing I never understood about sweetwater fly fishing is why you guys need to false cast 20 times on a stream 30' wide? I have really grown to appreciate those beautiful 10" brookies and when I see one all I can think is, live bait.

And by the way, just picked up a SAGE XI2 14 blank last week.

With a little more prodding, this thread may hit 2000 views. Perhaps then we can find the remaining 12 angler's worldwide who broke their Albrights.

Now go watch the movie again and catch some brookies. ;)

chris

[tc514]

Did someone say something about False Casting?
I missed it! :confused:

[ned]

While some great information has been exchanged in this thread, I'm sad to say you all sound like a bunch of grouse drumming for a mate.

I once stood in a john boat outfitted with orvis equipment and watched a man next to me with a cane rod catch as many fish as I.

to each his own men...........

[tc514]

Well said Ned

[ned]

I used to whine pretty good as a kid for a graphite fenwick rather than my fiberglass zebco sportfisher fly fishing outfit.

my old man would tell me it's not the rod it's the man behind it. at the time jimmy connors was still playing tennis with a wooden racket, when aluminum was the latest technology. he'd use conors as an example every time.

sad to say that rig went overboard while paddling a beaver flowage two springs ago, but i'll be damn'd if i'm gonna be told it's bad technology because of what it was made of.

so it casted like a wet piece of angel hair pasta..............those 5 inch native brookies bent that rod time & time again like a mako on an offshore rod.

I don't have the cake to buy sage, orvis, scott, etc...............st. croix has been working well, as well as TFO.

[jkrogers]

ned,

Jimbo won all his majors with a Wilson T2000 (metal) sorry, bad example


I do agree, this issue is getting old.

jr

[sage fly guy]

As often happens good discussions often become polluted by personal conflicts.

It's unavoidable, sometimes just the actual wording of a response although correct in content, leads to barbs that can turn a good discussion sour.

We covered some good ground and many well thought cogent points were hashed out. We brought in some new members merely by having this topic. It was nice to see Mr. Murphy jump into the fray. Getting actual feedback from an owner of a fly rod company is not something you often find, anywhere.

Over 2100 times someone clicked on this topic. I wish there were more discussions on the Tackle board that would draw this kind of interest. The more real world information that gets out to us fly fisherman the better spent our hard earned dollars will become.

chris

[striperblues]

I guess I am at risk for getting slammed for posting...but here goes:

This summer I had a chance to fish a brand new 10wt. Albright on a friends boat and on the first hookup with a 25 inch bass it snapped within 20 seconds.

As a comparison, I have fished a St. Croix Legend Elite 10Wt. for a couple of seasons now and landed several stripers 20 to 30 + lbs this summer with not so much as a crackle. I did end up breaking the St. Croix (stepped on it while it lay on the bottom of my boat) :rolleyes: Sent it back and received a new one in short order.

I am now in the market for a 9wt. as I need to retire my RPXLI (my casting style is better suited for a fast action rod) but cannot afford an XI2. I love the price point on the EXS and it feels good holding it in the shop and I plan on casting it at the Marlboro Show. My confidence is kind of low after my experience and what I am reading here. I do own a TiCR 8 Wt. and like it and the price fine, but I am not sure I want to buy a 9Wt. TFO.

I will talk to the Albright folks at the show....hope they answer my issues better than what was stated on this site.

[sage fly guy]

If you can't afford a new XI2, build one.

The rod may retail for close to $500, but the blank is under $250. Even with all top notch parts, you still won't break $350.

The St Croix Legend Elite blank is also extremely reasonable. You could build one again relatively inexpensively.

Many local fly shops offer classes thru the winter. I know the Bear's Den in Taunton does. In 4 Saturdays, you could have a brand new custom built(by yourself) fly rod.

That's how I got started building rods. Just to damned expensive.



Nice to know how number 8 broke. :eek:

chris

[teflon_jones]

I picked up an 8 wt Albright from the Bear's Den 8 months ago, and honestly have yet to hook up my first fish on it, but I've been casting it a lot. I've only used my spinning gear on salt this year because I lost my 8 wt fly lines for months and I wasn't going to spend $60+ each on new ones when I knew they must be around somewhere. So, my Albright rod has yet to face a real test. It is one of the best casting, or possibly THE best casting, rod I've ever used based on my extensive practice this year with it. Actually, I take that back, I have a 10+ year old Cortland 5 wt that is the BEST rod I've ever cast with. I have no idea how much it cost, and I suspect it was fairly cheap, but man does it CAST!

Before buying the Albright, I tried out a $600 Scott and the $350 Albright for 20+ minutes each, and they cast the same (the Albright may have cast better!), so I got the Albright.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the Albright breaking after reading some of these posts. However, I'm also skeptical to take 3 people's experiences as the norm for a rod (no offense to anyone that's experienced breakage, but I'm a skeptic at heart :) ). I'll be in the Bahamas for 11 days as of next Monday, and I plan to do some serious fishing with the Albright, and you KNOW I'll be posting results and pics. :D I'm glad I'll have my St Croix spinning gear for backup though just in case. ;)

[FlyFishMich]

my old man would tell me it's not the rod it's the man behind it. at the time jimmy connors was still playing tennis with a wooden racket, when aluminum was the latest technology. he'd use conors as an example every time.


WOW, I think it took me a half hour get through this thread....

I guess I am somewhat old school :rolleyes: ...Or at least newer old school? I just can't keep up with all this "NANO" this and "TITANIUM" that? (#$119) I am still using good old generation II graphite in the form of a couple of 10 year old Sage Discovery series rod (Now DS2, I believe?). I can still cast an entire intermediate with both my 9wt and 10wt and I haven't really seen a need to cast into my backing very much ;) Like the earlier comparison to cars, I am driving a well kept, respectable, and modest vehicle while my neighbors are showing off their BRAND NEW Jaguar S-Type :eek: If you can afford the toy, then I guess you should be able to afford the repairs...right?

BUT my point is that these rods both catch fish, lay out a nice line, and are extremely durable --127-3- The 10wt has "reefed" some pretty nice "baby" tarpon out of 20'-30' depths with know ill effects. Smack 'em with a clouser and they don't explode. AND NO....this is by no means an ad for Sage...just a satisfied customer.

[935Supra]

I need some advice regarding the Albright EXS. I mainly fish midwest trout streams for rainbows and browns. I am not likely to come into contact with a fish more than 7 to 10 pounds. The majority of fish will be in the 1 to 3 pound class. I feel extremely fortunate to have stumbled across this forum. This is my first post. I have read the entire thread pertaining to the Albright EXS breakage experiences. Prior to reading the posts on this forum, I had been in discussions with Charlie Reading. Charlie is the owner of Reading's Fly Shop in Lebanon, MO. He guides all over the world and also makes custom fly rods that have been sold and copied world-wide. One of his beautiful creations was made for the former President George Bush. Charlie is extremely high on the Albright EXS. He has suggested the EXS in combo with the Ross Evolution 3 for general-purpose midwestern stream fly fishing. He is totally impressed with quality and performance of the EXS. He has many other combos in his world-class fly shop that he could have recommended to me at a much higher cost. I will be going to Lebanon, MO on Monday to try out and, more than likely, purchase the combo. I was very excited about the combo and highly anticipating seeing it and testing it out on Monday . . . . . until I read the thread on breakage. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions on this combo if its use will be limited to small midwestern streams. Thanks.