Keys without a Guide

[TimOBrien]

I was curious to know if it is possible to fish the Keys without a guide. I have been considering a road trip down there but would like to do it at a low cost. I know you Florida boys don't want to give up your spots, but maybe you guys would be sympathetic to a Texas boy in search of a little adventure.

[soundownsam]

If you took a road trip what type of boat woudl you be brining (if any)? Have you ever fished FL before? What would your trarget species be? Give me some more info and I will see if I can give you some tips.

Sam

[danny]

hi... you'd be better off maybe wading. there is really no good way to fish down there without knowing what you're doing. it's not about "spots", it's about boat navigation, reading water, and knowing your surroundings. i've lived there on and off since 1983, and trust me, it took a few years before i really knew what was up. and that's spending day after day on the water. you can really have problems out there, and cause problems if you don't know what you're doing, let alone going out there and catching fish... if you don't know what you're doing, catching fish will be the least of your problems. get a good guide, there are a bunch.

[kyhnau]

Hi fishing fellows.
Im picking this thead up, as im visiting Florida keys in February or March 2008.
The visit it part of a 3 month adventure round Caribbean. I dont have a fixed time schedule, but I intent to stay between one and two weeks.
My research so far tells me to stay on Islamorada. I will rent a car in Miami.

Im primarily chasing bonefish. Other species like jacks, baracudas, tarpon and even sharks has my interest. I will bring an 8 and a 10 weight fly rod + one spinning rod.

Any locals around who would like to share some inside info with a danish fisherman (who needs to travel to 5000 miles to catch a decent fish :rolleyes: )?

I have concluded, that there are some flats reachable without a boat around Islamorda. Thats why i plan to use that as my base. Can anybody give me some pointers and directions? Im always on a budget, but im considering to spend some of my hard earned money on a guide for one day.

Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[Onshore]

Tim and Danny,

Please reply to Soundown Sam to give us a better idea about what you will be targeting and if you will have a boat. That will give us an idea of how to help out.

Barring that, if your coming without a boat, check out the web site www.boatlessfishing.com (http://www.boatlessfishing.com). There are a lot of contributors from Miami to Key West and a lot of good information on it.

Bill

[kyhnau]

Hi again...
Thanks for the website reference. Im already trying to collect some info from there.

To follow up on this one:

Im not bringing a boat, but I will have a car available.
I have never fished in the keys before. My main target will be bonefish.
I have modest bonefishing experience from Los Roques.
When I hit the keys, I have further fished in Yucatan and Bay Islands.

Thanks,
Lars

[pschwart00]

I've been fishing the Keys for about 17 years. Yes, there are places in & around Islamorada that you can drive to, wade & see bonefish. Odds of catching them with a fly rod...about 1 in 100,000. Odds of catching them with a live shrimp on a light jig 1 in 100. These fish get tons of pressure and are extremely difficult to catch (i.e. not Bahamas).

If you rent a boat and are willing to put down the fly rod you can probably do enough research, get some tips to catch fish ('Cudas, snapper, grouper, jacks - etc.). The Keys has great fishing - it also has lots of fishing pressure and a boat is super helpful to get away from the "downtown fish." Then once you have a boat finding the spots gets tough, as a lot of the guides will run 10-20 miles back into the Everglades National Park to put their clients on fish. Unless, you are in the lower keys (Sugarloaf area) where the number of keys greatly increases.

If you are just looking for pole bending the reef edge is only 4 miles out. A decent sized rental boat on the right days will get you there no problem. Catching kings and other pelagics shouldn't be too tough.

If you go in mid April through early June tarpon fishing in the channels is pretty low tech but again a boat is needed.

What I'm getting at is that if you go to the Keys without a boat you will probably come away more frustrated than satisfied. There are other parts of Florida, however, that with modest watercraft (i.e. canoe/kayak) great fishing can be had. Further, depending upon the time of year there are still other places where great fishing can be had with no boat.

[SpexnReds]

The only advice I can give you is this: Given you don't have a whole lot of previous experience with flats fishing and bonefish in particular, skip the keys all together and go on to your other locations. Florida bones are big, smart, not present in the numbers you would see in the Carribbean, and there is alot of wind. What this boils down to is that you have to be pretty confident in your cast to fool these guys, but you also have to have a fair amount of skill behind it. I am not trying to sound like a fly fishing elitist, but for the Florida Keys, all of this is true since so many people have thrown flies at these fish. It can be loads of fun if you are on your game because it is very much so a challenge, but if you aren't on that level yet, save your bucks, unless you plan on fishing with a guide the whole time.

[kyhnau]

Guys, thanks for you input...
Ok - it really is as diffucult as I can read everywhere :eek:

I will consider converting my visit in Florida to a few days of sight-seeing down the keys instead, and hit for Bahamas earlier than planned.

pschwart00, you mention Sugarloaf area further south... Will it be easier down there? Or does it still require a boat.
Islamorada is not a must at all - I just read in an article, that it would be a good base for people like me.

Any other fishing in Florida that I should not miss?

Thanks again (thou not too optimistic :))
-Lars

[pschwart00]

...guide/boat still needed in and around Sugarloaf areas. This part of the keys is a little different than the rest though. A lot less people than Upper Keys & Key West. If you look at a map of the area (google earth) you will see numerous bights and islands that can provide good fishing. Still, local knowledge a huge plus.

[Tarpon41]

I was curious to know if it is possible to fish the Keys without a guide. I have been considering a road trip down there but would like to do it at a low cost. I know you Florida boys don't want to give up your spots, but maybe you guys would be sympathetic to a Texas boy in search of a little adventure.

You did not say when or for how long...the when is relevant to lodging costs and fishing pressure...the how long is relevant to your learning curve...if you decided on a guide that price is fixed 500-550...you need local knowledge since you are not going to use a guide...IMO stop in at Sandy Moret's shop on Islamorada buy some flies, stuff..maps and ask about wading spots, without boat, from upper meta to marathon...then drive from isla to marathon look oceanside for guide boats on the flats...you will see some of the spots they fish note the time and tide, park and try it...some of the motels/lodges near and below marathon are ocean side and have wadeable flats...that area you do not need much of a boat rental 14-16 with a tiller is enough but and it's a big but...you have to acquire local knowledge by asking and doing....it's hard and requires patience and persistence...but it's worth it...I would trade all the bahamas bonefish I have ever caught for the two islamorada bonefish I caught wading oceanside by myself...

[kyhnau]

pschwart00, thank for the update on Sugarloaf,

Tarpon41,
I will leave Bay Islands, Honduras in the middle of February and hit for Miami.
Is it a good or bad time a year?
Originally I intented to stay in Florida for about 1½-2 weeks time before going to Bahamas. However, after reading some more about FL Keys (and with your guys input in mind) Im considering to shorten my stay there.

Im further considering to aim for other fishing than flatsfishing while in Florida. I havent done any research in that direction yet thou.

Regards,
-Lars

[Tarpon41]

pschwart00, thank for the update on Sugarloaf,

Tarpon41,
I will leave Bay Islands, Honduras in the middle of February and hit for Miami.
Is it a good or bad time a year?
Originally I intented to stay in Florida for about 1½-2 weeks time before going to Bahamas. However, after reading some more about FL Keys (and with your guys input in mind) Im considering to shorten my stay there.

Im further considering to aim for other fishing than flatsfishing while in Florida. I havent done any research in that direction yet thou.

Regards,
-Lars

Lars:

January February Keys
In Islamorada and down...if the sun is out for two days and the wind is under 15 kts and it's one or two days before a winter front or two or three days after a winter front passing...it's always a good time on the flats...stick to flats fishing...with your 10wt...got to get the fly to the fish in the wind...here's what I would do if I were you: 1/ drive to islamorada check out the prices on some of the typical run down keys motels save money or check out cheapest rate at the Islander. 2/ Go to Sandy Moret's fly shop as I said above don't waste time at bass pro's shop it's a big box with toys now and not a whole lot of knowledge; 3/ What's the weather doing? Is there a front coming and where is it? How many good days do you have in islamorada AND how many in Key West? If you only have one guide day to spend at 500 to 550 and the weather is good in Key West then head to Key West and fish the Marquesas with a good flats guide on that day...if you get to pick and fish a good winter day...you will not forget the first day that you fished the Marquesas with a good keys guide...particularly after all the fishing days of your life...then come back to islamorada and wade or do it the other way if you have to wait two or three days for good weather. All weather being equal I would always pick Key West for flats flyfishing over any other place...why because you have a reasonable chance 50-50 or better of sight flats flycasting to a tripple even at this time of the year... catching the three is up to you and luck...I can give you the two guides that I use in Key West if you wish

My main reason for the weather concern is so that you get the "best bang for the buck" and at this time of the year...last two weeks of February... you can get some the best guides because it's just before the flats season starts...

Unless you are going way south in the bahamas eg Turks you will have the US winter fronts influencing the weather...weather now even in the bahamas is problematic...a friend has spent the past 12 days in nearly a continuous monsoon in central Andros

[Capt.PeteRowney]

Hey everyone. As an Islamorada guide it was kind of hard not to throw my two cents in on this one. The truth of the matter is that if you're coming to the Keys and fishing on foot and want to catch a bonefish, you're pretty much wasting your time. Not trying to burst anyone's bubble, simply being honest. Believe me, I understand wanting to do a trip on the cheap. Before I ended up guiding in Islamorada I used to do the same thing- buy a flight to Miami, rent a car and drive down to the Keys dreaming of bonefish, permit and tarpon. The truth is, by the time you've found a decent flat and got some sort of an idea what the tide is doing and maybe seen a few fish, it's time to head home with nothing to show but maybe some cuda slime. Renting or towing your boat down is virtually the same deal. Trust me here too- I used to tow my boat down. Navigating a boat down here is not easy, especially for people that are used to being in deep water once they get a hundred yards from shore. The fact is that you can run from Islamorada to Flamingo (on the mainland), a distance of over twenty miles and the average depth is only six feet. Throw some slick conditions or cloud cover into the mix and you won't know six inches from six feet! I have all the respect in the world for do-it-yourselfers but if you're already laying the money down for airfare, car rental, hotel and food you owe it to yourself to hire a guide. In regards to fishing the Keys in general, I would pick Islamorada. Sure I'm biased (I live and work here) but the truth is, Islamorada simply gives you more fishing options, particularly if the weather turns. Of all the Keys, Islamorada is the closest to the boundary of Everglades National Park. It takes me a two mile run before I am offically in the park. Nowhere else in the Keys has that. Why is this important? Firstly, because the Everglades is over a 1.5 million acre federally protected watery wilderness that offers more fishing opportunities than you could ever hope for. Secondly, because if you look at a chart, the hundreds of mangrove islands and banks that make up Florida Bay provide lee shores that allow anglers to run long distances from Islamorada and fish comfortably in all but the most extreme weather conditions. Nowhere else in the Keys allows you to do this. Not Key Largo, not Marathon, not Key West. Problem: you come down to the Keys to fly fish for bones but the wind is blowing twenty. Solution: your guide cancels, you slug it out and get skunked or you have the opportunity to get on a protected shoreline and maybe catch some redfish or snook . The truth is there is more to fishing the Keys than bones, permit and tarpon. At certain times of the year I can run twenty minutes, (sometimes less)and be into some great redfish and snook fishing. You simply won't find that in Key West. I won't argue that Key West and the Marquesas have some spectacular permit fishing at times of the year but if the wind picks up, have fun crossing Northwest Channel! I hope you have your life insurance policy up to date! In reality, no matter when you decide to come to the Keys, the weather is always the determing factor in what is a realistic fishing option. The great thing about Islamorada is that you simply have more options, particularly if the conditions are less than optimal for the species you seek. Well, that's my two cents. I hope this helps some and doesn't deter the hardcore from coming down and doing it on their own. Just remember it's all about the journey and not the outcome. -Pete

[kyhnau]

Tarpon41, thanks a lot.
I have read your last post a few times.
Wind, sun, temperature, tides... many conditions to take notice of.
It gives a rather good picture of the complexity in this simple game :) Fishing is simple, not easy... Just curious - when will the flat season start in FL?

I had the impression, that March would be a good time a year for Bahamas? Anyway, im on leave from my job in Jan, Feb and March and this period will not change. Just need to get the best out of with...


Also thanks to you Pete...
Ok, so my idea of flying to Miami, stuff my flyfishing gear in a rental car and hit down the Keys for some DIY adventures aint that original after all. Damn, I thought I had it all figured out here :)

As my stay in FL is part of a 3 month journey, im really on a budget this time. 550$ for one day fishing will leave me and my economy bleeding. Anybody around who wants to share the costs? :cool:


Again, thanks a lot.
I have rather low expectations.
However, just beeing in the warm saltwater environments makes me happy. Spotting a few fish adds to that, and catching a single bone makes the day unforgetable.

-Lars

[last flat]

I'm surpised no one's mentioned Biscayne Bay. There are a couple wadable spots for bones. But I'd like to offer our foriegn friend a couple days fishing on my skiff w/ me. Be glad to pole you around and put you on some world class bones. Just this morning we caught 2 fish, and 11 lb. and a 12 lb bonefish (on bait) but they wouldve hit a fly for sure. Give me an IM and I'll set soemthing up for ya!

11Lb:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z286/bgwilliam/bb1-3.jpg

[fxfly]

Great fish in that photo ... very generous offer!

[kyhnau]

That sounds awsome man... --127-3-
Would love to join you for a few days of fishing. I Cant express my gratitude.


Nice bonefish you got yesterday. Good composition in the picture.
I just browsed through your gallery. Thats some impressive fish you have caught there... Whats the weight of the permit in shot: b721c?

Greetings
-Lars

[Tarpon41]

Lars :

By flats season I meant with the start of March begins the various flats fly tournaments and spring fly season for permit and big tarpon which occupy most of the best guides... the fish are on the flats (thought not the quantity as march,april, may june july) in january february if the weather is good...

Drive around and look when you get to miami and if nothing else explore the keys...IMHO catching a double D bonefish on bait(spinning) compared to a fly...is comparing an unguarded layup to a close guarded nba three pointer or a hands penalty shot inside the goal ring to a shot on goal just after midfield

and the same applies to permit on a live crab versus a merkin

bahamas march is great where are you going?

[kyhnau]

Hehe...
That comparison didn't make much sense to me. Assume its football terms, right?
Thou not really into that stuff (the football thing), I conclude you prefer the fly-caught one, ehh? :)

Im not finally set on my Bahamas destinations yet...
I have Andros, Eleuthera and Acklins on my radar so far, currently researching accomodations, logistics etc.
Probably going for two different islands. Please feel free to kick in suggestions. Im DIY'ing as much as possible.

Seems rather easy to get to Fresh Creek Andros from Nassau (two hours ferry ride), but accomodations are limited.
Would I be better of hitting for South Andros/Mangrove cay? I have experienced there should be a few places to rent a scooter/bike (must be quite a sight, wheeling around with my flat-boots, chest-pack, fishing rods etc :)) Any recommended, cheap (yeah, yeah - always on the budget) accomodations having flats within walking distance? As im going by myself, single occupancies or twin/split room possibilities would be prefered. Basically just looking for a bed...

Acklins looks fantastic, but seems pretty difficult unless you have a car available.
Eleuthera should have good DIY options, but also high fishing pressure.


Hmmm, maybe I should start a new thread on the Bahamas area before I turn this one into my personal travel manager :)
On the other hand - this might inspire other even-minded anglers to make the same trip... I promise to share some reports along the way.
Again, many thanks. Any input (good or bad experiences) are greatly appreciated.

-Lars

[Tarpon41]

Lars:
As for those three fish yes fly only on the flats but all others no. i'll fish them conventionally.

Might be better to start a bahamian thread. Since your primary goal is DIY you need that specific input for those islands and also Long and Cat...your lodging has to be just that and not a place that is a fishing lodge because lodge owner/operators like to keep their guides at full employment in the islands.

I have fished Andros for thirty years primarily the bights, Fresh Creek and joulters and I have not stayed on south andros; however, it has been done with mostly with guides...if you ask on Andros can you wade the answer is of course but generally that answer means with a guide and not by yourself. Prices on Andros for independent guides 350 but most at 400.

One exception if it's available...on the north side of fresh creek.."Hank's Place" last time I stayed there two years ago...had three rooms...could rent a 13 foot whaler or 14 foot carolina skiff with a tiller 15 hp and you can get to and wade the entire fresh creek system would keep you occupied for some time; however, it is not ocean flats but there are bonefish and big ones...but you must talk to Hank before you decide....it's still there but i don't know if he's still renting rooms and renting boats..it is not a fishing lodge but it's primarily a local bar and eatery...that jumps on friday and saturday nite.

getting to andros or the other islands is best by air and not the ferry/mail boats from nassau..continental/gulf stream has a scheduled flight three times a week to Androstown/Freshcreek from Ft Lauderdale...other than the sun rising in the east very little remains constant in the out islands...local current, knowledge that is within 60 days of your arrival is best and crucial...particularly when DIY...

[DAQ]

I would have to disagree with the people that say you are wasting your time fishing the Keys without a guide.

As long as you don't have Bone, Permit, Tarpon tunnel vision you can have a great time fishing the Keys on your own. There are several other worthy targets that roam the waters that line the famous highway over water. Some that would flat out embarrass a Bonefish.

I have been fishing the Keys guideless for several years and have caught Bones, Tarpon and had serious looks from Permit all on my own. I have also led a friend and my brother to their first Bones.

The key to a successful trip for me is to know when to change gears and possibly target other species. If I am not seeing a lot of life on a flat I will move to another one or toss flies into the deeper channels.

Don't get me wrong, I would fish with a guide everyday I am down there but I just can't afford it. Obviously it can be more productive to fish with a local expert that is tuned in to the evironment and has more mobility, but, it's not always possible.

Do some homework, there are many articles and internet posts about this very subject. You may have the trip of a life time doing it on your own, then you can tip yourself at the end of the day.

D

[kyhnau]

Tarpon41...
I'll start a new Bahamian thread. Dont hesitate to look by and drop a comment or two ;) Thanks for sharing your experience so far...

DAQ, appreciate your bright point of view. I dont have a narrow-mindedat all, thou I would like to catch one of these record bones (maybe even a permit) on a self-tied fly --127-3-
Im still researching a lot, searching the internet, finding google-earth spots etc. Any particular spots that I should give extra attention in your opinion? :cool:

Regards,
-Lars

[pescator]

Like DAQ, I recommend you to go to the keys.

I am from france, been there twice, first time one week with my parents, rent a carolina skiff, first evening found a flat and caught my first bone ! Two other evenings, only saw and spooked them, got boneaddicted.

Second time, I went by bus from sarasota to big pine key camping. I had a guy bringing me a kayal to the camping. I was looking for bones, but really hard to see from a kayak. I caught my first (and only tarpon) on the first two hours after 1 mile of padling, and jumped like 5 others in the two other days. Had two big permits passing by, Great emotions !!

So what I would recommend is spend the first week in long key state park. Camp and wade the flat of the park, you might find some bones. Have a kayak dropped for 4 days and paddle around.

Next week, go to big pine or bahia honda state park and do the same. You should be able to catch some small tarpon in mangrove channels here.

[Roy Hobbs]

I have been to the keys four times in dec-jan. Each year when i go to bahia honda for the day I have seen spin and fly DIY. Not sure what the regs are about where you can go (its a state park) and there is a fee to get into the park. I am sure you can locate a phone number for them and contact them directly. From walking around the state park there appears to be lots of areas you can access. Dont know about the quality of fishing there but it is worth a shot.

The last four years I have trailered my boat from MA to Marathon. Each year I have had a blast catching snapper, jacks and cuda all day long each time I went out. That being said in about 60 days fishing down there I have casted to five or six 'poon and caught one bone by accident.