Definition of "Classic"

[striblue]

I am placing this post here to solicit some comments on what some of you consider would be a "Classic " fly. What is the foremost thoughts you might have when you would describe what you think it means to be a "classic " Fly.

[Quicksilver]

A classic pattern for me is one that was created by one of the early pioneers of saltwater flyfishing. I think of a fly constructed of animal hair instead of synthetics and, other than tinsel, not much in the way of flash. Patterns are always being updated and revised with new materials. I know an old timer who fishes with white blondes. The flies he ties use Bill's Body Braid for ribbing. He also tends to add cheeks to his wing. I view the fly as a Blonde, but certainly not a classically tied Joe Brooks Platinum Blonde.

[Soundking]

its all in the jungle cock eyes. I just see a classic fly being made from some form of natural, usually bucktail, meticliously crafted with those jungle cock eyes. Also I think of the traditional flies to be of the classic land-locked salmon style, adapted to salt water. Like a 9-3 or a grey ghost, tied slightly differently for what we do. My father has some stuff from a while back that are basically variations on those classic smelt flies, just really good looking flies. Something about that classic look that I just like, and it is affirmed by the jungle cock eyes. Anyways, I tied up a grey ghost for fishing the estuaries this spring, just to mess around and see if fish would take it. Got one fish in a few hours, but it did look real good in the water.

[striblue]

Quick...Thanks... I am getting opinions similar to what you say.. Anyway, Joe Branham and I, ar finalizing a contract in the next two weeks with a Publisher, and are planning on Co-Authoring a book on Classic Saltwater flies. Dividing them into the "old" classic and 'New" classics. This will involve a number of people who have agreed to help from Lefty Kreh to Steve Abel. Joe and I will divide the work. We will tye the flies where we can not get originals and I will be interviewing some of the pioneers on the subject. We want this to be the authority on Classic Saltwater flies with professionally done photo's and I expect that the work will be done in 8 months... the research and writing... then we start the proof work. I will beleive it when I see it.
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[mgustav]

I think there is a classic way to tie saltwater flies. I think if one has tied a lot of dry, wet flies, nymphs and streamers for trout and salmon, it is simple to apply these fundamentals to saltwater ties. After all, the classic patterns from the late 40's through the 70s were based on trout and salmon streamers.

[C. GIll]

Striblue--Congrats on the pending book deal. And I am glad to see you mention "New" classics. The terrific growth and innovation in saltwater flyfishing over the last 15 or 20 years has certainly lead to a bunch of new patterns that I consider modern classics. Patterns like the Clouser Minnow, the Surf Candy, the Bonito Bunny, and the Crease Fly, etc., deserve
recognition. They have certainly made fly tying (and fish catching) more fun for me.

Good luck and I am looking forward to seeing the book.

[striblue]

Mgustav...good point ..but... I think that Tying is only one aspect of the definition.... I have begun my research prior to Walton... and if you look closely in Waltons work there is the description of a "artificial bait" that describes clearly a minnow "fly"... tied with silk cut into the shape of a minnow AND used beads for eyes.... Walton general describes 12 flies which use feathers and wool generally....his target is trout and grayling.... those will not apply since there will be a clear distinction between the "British" School and the "American" school of flyfish. We will not be doing a History of flyfishing...only that point in time or search for that missing link to transpose into salt. There is no questio that the Salmon and other freashwater streamer is the "grandfather".... but the evolution needs to trace all of it...... Thanks C. Gill...yes... no book on the subject would be complete without the "New" classics.... and we really will not know for sure if some flies that exist today will take off in 10 years for whatever reason... we are attempting a story as it stands now.

[scruffy_fish]

As with any thing “Classic” it has a proven quality and has stood the test of time.
Classics are the stepping stones of innovation. Unfortunately some old classics may have been forgotten with the use of modern materials and the innovative cadre of today’s tiers.
Glad to hear you will be documenting these old flies so they are not lost in history.

[Henry]

I thought about this for a while and I think I have the answer! You know how folks ask for specific fly advice for certain "Local Conditions?". You say "make sure you have some size 22 "yadda yadda's" in brown, tan and soforth? You also invariably say..."be sure to have some...!!!classic fly!!!classic fly!!!classic fly!!!'s too in case the yadda yadda's don't work!!!

That's what a classic fly is..."new/old" doesn't matter. A "classic" is a "must-have" in your flybox. It's the "go-to" fly when all else fails. It can be a "last resort" or "first offering"...still doesn't matter because the pattern has proven itself time and time again. For example...why do Tarpon fishers have at least one or two Cockroach patterns in their flybox? Because the pattern best represents what a tarpon wants to eat?...don't think so!. It's because the pattern has proven time and time again that a tarpon "will" eat it...there's something about it that turns their crank...nothing more...but that's a good thing. The fly has a track record. A Royal Wulff is a great fly but do you think anybody in their right mind would tie one on when fishing for monster browns during a virtual blizzard of green drakes? I certainly wouldn't if I didn't already know that this single fly has accounted for more "monster browns" than I care to think of. You know what I mean?

For the time being, my "Ultimate Shrimp" is a classic wannabe!. It'll never reach "Classic" status untill many thousands of anglers say..."I know what I should try...an Ultimate Shrimp!" So they tie one on and "it works!!!"...then it's a classic, not because it looks pretty or whatever...but because it worked!

Great Question John!

Best regards friend,

[Smcdermott]

That's what a classic fly is..."new/old" doesn't matter. A "classic" is a "must-have" in your flybox. It's the "go-to" fly when all else fails. It can be a "last resort" or "first offering"...still doesn't matter because the pattern has proven itself time and time again.

Add this to scruffy's idea of "Classics are the stepping stones of innovatin" and you have a winner in my opionion.

Sean

[striblue]

Thank you SoundKing for clarifying and thanks everyone... this is all good stuff and Joe and I will be taking all these opinions to come up with a definition in our Introduction.

[Armando]

Hi
About Those Classics I Was Looking At Some Fly Patterns For Sea Trout In A European Book. All Those Flies Sure Look Like Salmon Flies, Tied With Lots Of Jungle Cock Eyes And Some As Tube Flies With Great Feathers, Hairs, Tinsels And Floss. It Says There That Most Of Them Are Still Used Though New Materials (synthetics) Have Taken The Place Of The Exotic Feathers And Furs. But They Still Look Classic.
I Second That A Classic Is A Classic Because It Catches Fish Along The Years, But I Also Think And See That Classic Flies Have A Certain Look To Them That Transfers You To The Very First Imitations Of Basic And Very Simple Patterns (not Talking About Salmon Classic Flies, Those Are Complex) For Example The Bonefish "horror" Fly, A Sea Ducer That Certainly Evolved From A Bugger Or Even A Whistler.
I Think That Salt Water Classics Come With The Bottom Line "less Is More" , A Keep It Simple And Straight To The Point View.

[Henry]

Given the recent earthquakes in your home town...I'm glad that you're still able to post here. I certainly hope that all is well with you, your family and friends.

Best regards and stay safe,

[Armando]

The Earthquakes Where Pretty Far But I Still Felt It Yesterday At 4 Am. It Happened In The Pacific Ocean And A Tsunami Destroyed Several Houses In That Coast. A Shame 'cause Right Now Floods Are Overtaking The Country Specially In The North, It Hasnt Stop Raining And Now This One, Hard Times Come Easy.
I Am Ok, Bogota Is In The Middle At 2600 Msn We Luckily Dont Suffer From Such Floods, But An Earthquake.....
Anyway Thanks For Asking

[striblue]

Thanks for your help here. I will go though these and hopefully place them into an appendix to the book since the reponses are broad, yet there is a common thread. Early next year I may need your permission and full names for the appedix and to identify. I have this posted elsewhere so have received good general reponses.

[flytyer]

When John and I first started this project, I contacted Lefty to talk with him about the book. One of the first questions that I asked him was his thoughts on what a Classic fly should be.

Here is what he told me:The fly should have been used by numerous people, in numerous locations, have caught numerous species of fish and NOT be area specific.

We also established a time line to determine the Old from the New Classics. 1980 was established as the point when saltwater fly fishing and tying started to come into it's own.

There is a problem with the area specific part of this in that it will cause the omission of some very important flies so we are making exceptions on that.

Some other flies that will be in the book are almost species specific like the Crazy Charlie and the Keys Style of tarpon fly. These flies cannot be omitted either.

Ken Bay has been a valuable source for me. He has brought to light some tyers that are almost if not completely unknown in the area of early saltwater fly tying. Elizabeth Grieg is one of these people and she will be featured in the book.

This is going to be the definitive book on the evolution of both fly fishing and fly tying for saltwater and will have numerous tyers and their patterns that we are all familiar with as well as some tyers that we do not know about but are important in saltwater.

All comments, suggestions, thoughts and recommendations are greatly appreciated and will be considered.

[striper man]

a classic fly for me would be the clouser minnow this fly will catch anything any where salt or fresh