Big Bait = Big Fish?

[scruffy_fish]

Has anyone tied up any really, really large flies. I’m talking BIG. Not just long as in flat wings, big bulky flies that can drift into a rip for some big bass this coming year.
Would love to see some patterns.
Thanks,

[albacized]

Has anyone tied up any really, really large flies. I’m talking BIG. Not just long as in flat wings, big bulky flies that can drift into a rip for some big bass this coming year.
Would love to see some patterns.
Thanks,

Check out some flies known as 'grocery' flies that are meant to imitate adult bunker, herring, pollock, mackeral and any other larger bait fish that runs roughly a foot or so long. Also check out Dave Skok's site for his 'Mega Mushies', which are meant to imitate the same general bait fish. I don't really know a specific site that could show you what grocery flies look like. However, here is Dave's site: http://www.dwskok.com/
I hope this helps,
Rich

[teflon_jones]

I tie an 8" chartreuse fly that's meant to imitate a worm or slug-go. I use two different things for the tail, rabbit fur or something that looks like a tapered pipe cleaner. My memory stinks so I'll have to look up what that is. :)

It works great for largemouth and pickerel too!

[scruffy_fish]

Thanks guys,
I've seen some excellent bunker patterns posted here, but looking for some meat and potato flies like the grocery flies; but not necessarily bait fish patterns. Any one have large lobster or crab patterns they’re willing to share. I figure big fish eat big bait ; (energy in > energy out) to survive.

[maineguideman]

Try contacting Jim or Tom at Eldredge Bros fly shop in S. Maine
207 363 9269. We consistanly fish with huge herring patterns 10 11 inches long tied on 6/0 hooks with a ton of lead wire on the hook shank to get all the bucktail to sink. It works great if suspended iwth a 500 grain line in a deep rip

[ruge13]

I use half a chicken all the time in the spring. For Herring imitations.
Usually they are tandem hooked, twin mustad 5/0' s I rig on wire. I weight the second hook with lead wire, and use a 350 + gr line. Most of the time they are about 10 inches long. In a nutshel they are 2 decievers tied to work together in tandem. Mostly white, with some yellow feathers, and blue or purple on top. Large eyes and flash tied into both hooks, not one long piece. Better against fouling. They are big and heavy, and need a hard false cast or two to shake them dry to shoot. I like them though... I'll see if I can dig up a picture.

[Sentience]

there is a great picture of one in bob popovixc's book Pop Fleyes. I'll try to scan it.

[Capt.ChrisLembo]

ALF (Anchovy looking fly) and FPF (Flashy profile fly) can be tied any size. Bill and Kate Howe are the original fly designers.

[KMM]

Dear Captain Chris:

Nice West Coast ALF patterns there.

I am aware that original Howe ALF patterns used Ultra or Super Hair tied in a split forward-rearward material tie down Hi-Tie technique.

I see your great utilization of Angel Hair in these patterns or some other of the many new synthetics now available.

Care to describe briefly-further?

Sincere Regards.

KMM

So Cal

[Capt.ChrisLembo]

Basically it is a hi-ti technique. All the material is tied on in the middle of the material and then the piece extending forward of the eye is folded back over and tied down. This gives height to the head and secures the material with less wraps.

I use Super hair, ultra hair, angel hair, flashabou. Basically start the first tie in with a large amount of flashabou. Vary the lengths up to 1/2 the length of the fly. If it is a 6 inch fly you can make the material range from 3-6 inches long. This is what creates the nice taper of the fly. It is enhanced in the water and the shape is very teardrop when it is stripped.

Tie in the stiffer material next to give some support to the remaining materials and keep it from fouling.

I tie in 1 flashabou on top, 1 white superhair or ultra on top, 1 white superhair or ultra on top, 1 gray superhair or ultra on top, then 1 white superhair or ultra on the bottom, 1 flash on top, one dark gray or blue or black on top, then red on side for gills. Stick on the eyes. use a black perm marker to bleed some darkness on top of the head. pinch the material nice and thin so it stands high....then epoxy the head and back a little into the material covering the eye. the fly should have a high profile but be thin when looked at straight on.

Remember to vary the length of material everytime you add some.

I will do a photo step by step next time I tie some up.

[Armando]

Thats something Ive always give lots of thoughts, in terms of energy and in terms of territoriality.
I like to tie magnum size flies to look for the big ones, and also to discourage small fish.
Sometimes when fishing for peacocks things just wont go right, you try everything subsarface, beneath, mid water and nothing, sometimes they chase the fly most not.
So I tie a big deceiver or puglisi kind of fly and search for those very potential spots and dedicate at least 8 minutes in the same place with a sinking tip. If there was a peacock the patience pays off, usually a big one.
This is one of the moments when they strike just because they are not happy with the intruder.
I do this with trout patterns also, if bigger size is normally a #6 then I'll take 4 or five #2s and #1s, sometimes it saves the day.
Big fish fly fiber is one of those great materials to tie fly lunkers.
Best regards
Happy christmas

[scruffy_fish]

Armando,
Great looking fly! Reminds me of the west coast "Streaker" used for sailfish.
I purchased a couple of them some years ago at Bob Marriott’s shop, outside of LA.

[Sedotti]

Dude,
Tie your own. It's simple. I've tied flies, bulky flies, and castable ones, to thirtey inches (long). Fifteen inches (or 10 or 12) is more practical for our area. I've been doing this for 14 years, and have written various articles about them, going back to 1993. Check Saltwater Flyfishing Magazine archives, (I think the last article I did on big flies there was in 2000, maybe 2001) or American Angler beforw SWFF Mag existed. Lots of photos and how to tie etc.
But really, just tie in material, like Yak Hair, along the top and the bottom (hi tie, lo tie) of the shank of the hook. Put a little along the flanks, and you have a nice big fly. You can trim your fly to it's wanted shape easily if you use synthetics. Can do this with Yak too. It's really as easy as that. If these flies really drag when cast, you're going to have to add weight to future flies like this to counteract this drag. This is called "weight balancing". It's simply a requirement for making really big flies castable.
I'll be doing some time as the "Featured Tier" at the Fly Fishing Show in Marlboro in a few weeks, and will probably be tying some big flies, especially if requested. Attend the show, and come on over.
Angelo Peluso will be coming out with a great book ( through Frank Amato publishing) next year on flies of the Northeast. It will probably have many big bait ties in there. The book promises to be a big winner. This (the Northeast) is the area of the Country, and perhaps the world, that has a concentration of fly tyers who are as a (pretty large) group, and have been for more than a decade now, right at the forefront of fly tying. We're really lucky to be where this tremendous amount of creativity has been happening.

Merry Christmas,
Mark

[KMM]

Dear Mark:

Just maybe we here on the West Coast will see you tying up some things at the Ontario, CA show this year?

I mean really, how many times do we have to see you hit the front wall of the convention hall during your casting demos!? (120+ cast folks!) :D Incredible.

Save your tying hands for February 26, 27 - we'll be waiting to watch Mark. You can also legally call me "Dude" too, if you like, because I live in California..."Bro".

Regards,

KMM

So Cal

[scruffy_fish]

Mark,
Let’s see a picture or two of your mega fly patterns, the big ones.
Have any large lobster or crab flies (LARGE SIZE)?
I'll be at the Danbury show with Delaware River Outfitters, first row end booth.
Been tying for over 40 years.
See you there?

[joe e.]

Scruffy, I start with a 5 or 6/0 offset hook, then tie a big rattle on, followed by generous clumps of slinky fibre in "shrimp" color on both sides. On top I tie in a clump of long 10in peacock herl the diameter of a pencil, then build sides with silicone, several coats and add large prizmatic eyes to the shoulders. Its big,light and easy to cast. When thrown with a 550gr head it has accounted for a number of 40lb+ fish. A commercial fisherman told me in the water it is a dead ringer for herring.

[tommat]

Yak hair Bunker patterns. All black has rattle attached. Both around 8" if I remember correctly.

[Sedotti]

I want to say something about big, castable flies. It's funny. I've been saying this for fourteen years now at least, and it seems to still be new to everyone's ears (all over the Country too) every time I talk about it. I don't know why. The concept of "weight balancing" not just should be, but IS actually a tenet of fly fishing.

You constantly hear that, "oh, the fly's so light, so it's so castable". Light does not necessarily make a castable fly, especially with a big fly. Most very light, really big flies sport a LOT of drag when cast. Because of this drag, the bigger and lighter they are, the more uncastable they become. That's EXACTLY why most anglers can't cast them. This is why, before I came up with the concept of weight balancing, everyone thought and said that casting big , not to mention, truely giant flies, was impossible.(let alone casting them for any distance). These big, billowy, weightless flies simply drag too much when flying through the air. What you have to do is counter this drag with weight in the fly. That weight can be a hook alone, hooks, hook(s) and connecting wire, all this with weight added, this with epoxy at the head. Absorbed water in the materials counts too. It doesn't matter, what counts is the total weight of the fly, and how it relates to the amount of wind resistent materials the fly sports when you're casting it. When you counter the drag to the optimal point - not too little weight, not too much, just right, (you experiment by adding weight to the point that the fly casts best, after that point the more weight you add, the progressivily more difficult the fly is to cast) you get a fly that false casts surprisingly well, (sometimes very well) and that casts surprisingly easily. This "weight balancing" is the "secret" to making giant flies castable. Come on, I've been saying this into a microphone for years now at every show I've casted at. It's the main reason that I can throw 25 inch flies out of sight. It is why I can throw that same fly almost as far with a five weight rod, and do right there at the casting pool. It's my POINT! Weight balancing is more importent than rod, or line weight for throwing castable flies. It's so importent that it actually IS THE REASON why all flies that cast well, no matter WHAT size they are, are, and virtually have to be, weight balanced. This has always been true in the entire history of the sport.


Happy New Year,
Mark

Now, ideally what you want is for the fly to be the lightest it can be and STILL be weight balanced. Then you really have a great casting fly. That usually means that the fly will have to collapse to a very narrow form when wet, but not always. An example of an easy casting big fly is a Flashiceiver, a deceiver with regular Flashabou in there instead of feathers, and not too much bucktail put in at the head. A heavy wire 4/0 hook is all it takes to weight balance this. You can cast a 10 incher with a four weight. dave Skok's big flies are often wide profiled but not bulky. That's importent. Flat wings cast so well because they're so narrow when wet and take very little weight to weight balance. The reason they cast so well is NOT because they are so light, again, it's because they are so light AND they are, in addition to that, weight balanced.

Start thinking "Weight Balance" when constructing flies, especially big flies. It opens up a whole new ballgame.

[scruffy_fish]

Searching around on the web for large fly patterns, I was reminded of Bill Catherwood. Bill’s flies are amazing!
He is an out of the box thinker and one of the most innovative fly tiers around. His crab patterns are a good example of his ingenuity. Bill’s larger flies represent what I was looking for from some of the Reel Time tiers.

Another innovative young tier is Dave Skok. Dave’s Slobster pattern looks very interesting and I’m going to try it this spring.

Thanks everyone for posting and try some of these larger flies this coming season, you and I might be surprised at the results.

Have a happy new year everyone!

[Sedotti]

Kevin Callahan ties big flies about as well as anybody anywhere, and they are beautiful too. His flies caught stripers, and big stripers one after the other during the recent herring run at Montauk. They are hi tied, lo tied, out of Slinky Fibre and flash. That fly in the 8 and 9 inch size, in the water, is one of the best looking baitfish immitations I have ever seen. I mean out of EVERYTHING I've ever seen. Kevin's e mail address is kcall12@hotmail.com

Kevin isn't well known yet, but he deserves to become a recognized tyer, especially in the Northeast.

You want a great 8 inch fly too? Try John Ryzanych's Fat Head streamer. John's from Castro Valley California in the Bay Area and his company Icon Products makes Softex. This Softex head fly is an incredible striper killer too, and it's taken big fish, both on the West Coast and here on the East Coast too. It's made with krinkle fibre and flash and has a big constructed head. There was an article about it in Fly Tyer last January or Dec, or Feb., I believe. John will probably be tying somewhere at the upcoming Fly Fishing Show in Somerset. E mail is john@iconproducts.com

Manned or womanned with these two flies, you could do a lot of damage!
Marco

[jpkil318]

If you are looking to fish these flies in rips and stuff I find that they don't have to be that pretty, out on nantucket and the vineyard we use these big 10 -15 inch squid/ baitfish flies that are just really bright and they catch everything. The key to these flies is that they are bright so they get the fishes attention and all you have to do is find the color they like that day and they will eat it. We tie them with big fly fiber and Yak hair and they are really sweet. The best part is that they take like 5 mins to make and are durable so they can catch multiple fish and bluefish and still be good. Basically just buy some of those matrials tie them on an 8/0 hook so they wont foul and drift it in a rip and the fish will eat it.
email me if you wont a picture
james

[joe e.]

This 550gr shooting head with slinky fibre system I came up with so my wife and kids could flyfish safely in a boat. The fly follows the line out and and down to the fish. 50-60ft is all they need. That same rig I can launch like a rocket. No need to weight the fly because as an ex-ncaa shotputter I already have a cannon in right shoulder. Oh yeah and scruffy the shrimp slinky is a blend, currently tying several dozen for friends and would be glad to send you one

[Sedotti]

If your fly really casts that well it has to be weight balanced. Kevin Callahan's flies are tied primarily with Slinky Fibre also. Usually all he needs is the hooks (he uses big, heavy wire hooks) and they also cast great. They are definitely weight balanced. Obviously you just got lucky the way you tied the fly. That's what evreybody depended on up until a few years ago for a castable fly. Luck. What I'm saying is that now you can "measure" it, in a way, and that you have control over the situation. You can manipulate things to CREATE a castable fly. It doesn't have to be at random like it used to be.
Besides, your fly is only eight inches long. Try it tied the same way when it's 12 inches long. Now try casting it with a five weight rod. My point is valid.

Mark

[Sedotti]

James from Nantucket,
What colors do you like (and the fish like), and which do you try.
Mark

[jpkil318]

My favorite color is pink but I have friends who like other colors. But i use almost every color that they have for big fly fiber, Like green, yellow, purple, black, red, blue, white and grey. I usually start with pink and if they are just following and not taking I switch colors, I find that almost every color will atleast get there attention and then you swith to find the ones they like that day. I have also found that some colors work better under different light conditions and with bottem structure. Like at night i find that white works well or in the fog a yellow works. Or a rocky bottem a purple or black works. However this isn't always correct so you have to be prepared with plenty of colors and expirement.
Good Luck

[captshiner]

Here's a couple I use when there's big baits like bunker and herring around. The slammer is yak mixed w/ mushy flash on a 9/0 gama. The herring is slinky mixed w/ mushy flash on a 6/0 tarpon hook (model escapes me). A 10" snake fly of black magnum zonker with a black wool silicone head works well at night. Also a 5/0 deceiver about 9" using 4 flatwing hackles, then 2 long deciever hackles with a cone head worked really well. An ALF knockoff, using a huge clump of flashabou or pearl mushy fibre and white slinky on bottom and olive on top worked well at 1st and last light.

Sedotti really helped me out this past year with these bunker flies(Thanks Marc!). The weighting really is the key. With his help, within about 2 weeks I had everything from fly to rigging dialed in and I was able to keep up w/ the guys live-lining. More than once I heard "Hey, you can't catch bunker on flies" "Um, ok" as a gorilla bluefish does cartwheels behind the boat.

Using these big flies flies really changed my philosphy as far as fly fishing is concerned. I used to throw size 1 clousers, deceivers, etc. and was content with fish up to 10 lbs. That gets old quick. Tossing these big flies are way more fun, you may not hook as many, but when you do it's gonna be a decent fish. I purposely started using nothing smaller than 4/0 hooks to keep the smaller fish off.

My biggest problem is finding hooks over 4/0 that are thin but have size. The gamas I use are bait hooks w/ the offset removed, but that's a pita. Live bait tuna hooks (mustad 9175) are decent, but get dull quick and are tough to penetrate jaws in bigger sizes . Just ordered a bunch of tiemco 600's. Any suggestions?

[FLYRODER]

I have to agree with Mark when it comes to weight balancing. Mark Sedotti helped me out with his method of tying really big bunker flies using weight to balance them. And it works I was able to toss a big bunker fly 10-14inches an easy 60-80ft from my kayak. And WOW those flies really work.

I was out a few times on the kayak in AUG/SEPT in the middle of really very thick schools of bunker. The boaters were snagging the bunker and livelining for big blues 10lbs and up. They(boaters)couldn't believe when I came paddling up to the bunker schools and tossed this big bunker fly with my fly rod. I could see the looks on the boaters face's like "do you really think your going to catch something with that (#$119) " type of look. Well I casted the big bunker fly with ease and waited about 10-15 seconds started stripping the fly line and by the 2nd to the 4th strip BANG big bluefish on. I was catching bluefish from 14-19lbs weighed on the BOGA Grip. Most of the bluefish I was catching were bigger than the fish the boaters were hooking into. It was nice to wipe that look off there face's real fast. :brow

So thank you Mark Sedotti for showing me how to tie a very large fly pattern that's easily casted using your weight balance method. :cool:

[JimW]

What I'm saying is that now you can "measure" it, in a way, and that you have control over the situation. You can manipulate things to CREATE a castable fly. It doesn't have to be at random like it used to be.

Mark

Mark, I've seen your casting demos, obviously the method works and works well. I've tied some large buffies ~10" and find they cast ok with a heavy sinking line but couldn't go much larger. When you say 'Measure it' are you speaking of a certain ratio weight to length/bulk? I'm interested in experimenting with the weight and was thinking of just wrapping some solder on the hook shank out on the water but if there's a general rule of thumb that can be used as a starting point I'd love to hear it.

Cool thread.

Jim W.

[Sandflee]

An example of an easy casting big fly is a Flashiceiver, a deceiver with regular Flashabou in there instead of feathers, and not too much bucktail put in at the head. A heavy wire 4/0 hook is all it takes to weight balance this.

Isnt the flashciever, tied with large clouser eyes on the same side as the bend? if not i got about 20 tied wrong. lol


Hey Marc i was at the sommerset show last year and plan on going again this year, last year i watched your demonstration on tying the Large bunker flies, and without a doubt the "keel" and weight balancing is extremely important,

[Sedotti]

Hi People,

Capt. Shiner,

The flies in your photos look simply beautiful. You're some tier.


Stan,

What a great story. Congratulations. 14 to 19 pounds! I'm jealous. I wish you'd called me about it when they were in.

Bogas are really accurate, so you got a legit 19 pound blue. Stan, do you realize that the two biggest IGFA tippet records for fly rod blues are 19 and change, and that nothing is 20 or over? That's on fly. You beat the 20 pound tippet record, which is 18 something. People talk about catching "20" pound blues all the time, but almost all those fish aren't even close, and I've heard flyrodders b.s. often enough, and at the very least, usually there's doubt. That's the biggest legit bluefish I've ever heard of caught on a fly, besides the two records. Harvey Bennett out at Amagansette told me he got a 22 pounder on a fly years ago out on the beach there, but there was no photo. Didn't sound like he was exaggerating. But your's sounds legit. Amazing. Did you get that on Long Island Sound? Man, that's a great fish. Been looking for one of those for years. Actually I'd like to get a legit 20. Why not make that 25! Congratulations Stan. I'm impressed. That's probably one of the biggest bluefish ever caught on a fly.


Jim,

I meant that you have an idea about weights, and weight balancing. No longer do you have to rely just on luck.

Do take that stuff with you on the water and try what you're going to try. You can also do it on land to get a frame of reference.

With a 10 inch fly I wrap the hook shank with .030 weighted wire, then put in a keel below that consists of 18, one half inch strips of that .030 wire. They are in three layers of six pieces each. Hook is usually a 6/0 or 8/0 Gamma Octopus. This will weight balance most of my bunker flies that are 10 to 15 inches long. Maybe using only 2 large size weighted eyes (like Clouser eyes) will be enough weight. Try it.



and Sandflee,


I tie the fly for use the way I showed you, and the way you do, with the weighted eye.

but..... it is a little heavy this way, but works better. The fly would be more accurately weight balanced with just a four odd size hook, like a Eagle Claw 254 SS 4/0. No more weight than that.

But you're not TOO heavy using a 4/0 Gamakatzu Octopus with that large size weighted eye. That hook is lighter than the 254SS. The fly doesn't cast quite as well, but it still casts pretty well that way.

But I like it, that with the eye, it can get down better, and it can jig a little, and it has better action on the retrieve. When you pause and that flies dives, the thin Flashabou just opens up and flashes. Yeah! With a hand over hand retrieve (rod butt in the armpit) that fly just shimmys and waves too. Keep the eye.

Thanks for responding,

Mark

[FLYRODER]

Thanks Mark!!! Sorry I didn't contact you when the action was happening I promise to do so this year. Every year around late August and early September there are massive schools of bunker being mauled by big hugh bluefish just about everyday in the middle of the bay. That's 2 years in a row the big choppers took the fly very agressively over and over again. I'm hope this year will make 3 in a row.

[JimW]

Thanks for the great response Mark. I'll be sure to take in your demo at one of the shows.

[Slappy]

Mark, you need to write a book. Put it in words and pictures and make a little money off your ideas. (and give yourself something to sell at the shows!). These flies would translate into other types of fishing, so the appeal would go far beyond just striper fishermen.

[captshiner]

Thanks for the compliments Marc! When are you doing that seminar in Orvis NYC? I'd appreciate it if you would critique those slammers I tied in person, especially the stinger hook rig.

Slappy: check out "Innovative Saltwater Flies" by Bob Veverka.

[Slappy]

Slappy: check out "Innovative Saltwater Flies" by Bob Veverka.

Got it. Some of us are just slower than others and we need picture book instructions. I'm only a baitshop boy afterall...

There really doesn't seem to be much in the way of good instructional stuff on tying good large patterns. Popovics book is a great model to help novice fly tyers.

[scruffy_fish]

This turned out to be a good thread, but I still haven't had any feed back about large BAIT, other than fish patterns?
Skok has a "slobster" pattern. Any one have a "crabster" pattern that they might share in a LARGE size? (#$119)

[Sandflee]

would a LARGE crab pattern be practical? casting wise i could see it being difficult. IMO

[scruffy_fish]

I think the thread got off on a bit of a tangent about casting big flies, although it was interesting and I learned somethings.
I was looking for alternative patterns that could be used in the rips off a boat, and not necessarily "cast" great distances.

[Sandflee]

sorry scruffy, my bad, i have read that down in Florida they sometimes use large Plamered Marabou flies in a rootbeer color, with 2 strands of purple crystal flash (legs) for tarpon in the pass.

[Armando]

About That Big Crab Pattern, I Made One Just As An Experiment For Nurse Sharks In The Flats. I Tied It As A Merkin On A 2/0 Hook. Havent Used It Yet, But I Cast It With A #8 Rod, Had To Double Haul More But It Was Launged Far.
The Question Is, Will Nurse Sharks Fall For It??
Best Regards

[Semper Fly]

Scruffy,
2 big patterns/ bait that I am surprised haven't been brought up yet are Squids and eels. (#$119)

Both of these are great Striper catchers!!!

There are several different squid patterns available, some larger than others. One of the most realistic versions I have seen lately is tied and crafted with Sili-skin. Here is a link to a picture taken at the College Park Flyfishing Show. ( http://oregoninlet.us/flyfishing/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1194&whichpage=5 ) the pictures of the squid are near the bottom of the page. These were tied by Blane Chocklett of Blue Ridge Flyfishers. (Blane is also the proprieriter for both loco foam and sili-skin.) I am sure you could contact him and he would be happy to give you the recipe as well as sell some more sili-skin. :brow

Eel patterns are also numerous and vary by size. A friend of mine and local fishing partner has designed and currently sells his "live action eel' in diffferent sizes through his website (http://addictiveflyfishing.com/). Here is a link to the video (http://addictiveflyfishing.com/store/catalog/Default.htm ) this is a great looking fly!!! --126-3- --126-3- you can order one or more from their website as a demo or you could just come up with your own version. Here is the basic recipe without giving away the secret to their "true swimming" hook - The tail is folded and glued rabbit from a hide (waterproof fabric glue - keeps it flexible) the body is cross-cut palmered rabbit, with a spun deer hair head and oversized deep sea eyes. And yes the hook is heavily weighted. You may want to wrap the shank with lead wire first, and then add more weight as a keel on the bottom of the hook, as Marc Sedotti mentions. Hope these help.

Semper Fly

[mike kelly]

This turned out to be a good thread, but I still haven't had any feed back about large BAIT, other than fish patterns?
Skok has a "slobster" pattern. Any one have a "crabster" pattern that they might share in a LARGE size? (#$119)

Scruffy, was looking thru lefty's book last night for squid and came across one that might make a pretty good eel...i'll check tonight and post the name and page, but it was only feathers, two hooks connected by a couple inches of 100 lb mon and a strip of 100 lb mono trailing off the back...feathers tied on each section...3 sections and 2 joints probably has tremendous movement in the water. olive or black, add a spun deer hair head maybe? wonder if its a foulsome mess to cast....

[mike kelly]

i'll check tonight and post the name and page

billy pates marlin fly, pg 95

[peter mac]

Scruffy,
Down in NJ during June when we get the adult bunker run (these baits are 10-16" and weigh 2 lbs.) we fish BIG Yak hair patterns on 6/0-8/0 hooks, that are 10-14" and all yak hair and pearl flashabou throughout. We blend about 6 different colors of yak, White, yellow, pink, tan, rootbeer, brown, chart, olive, etc. One of the keys to these flies is weighting the hook shank with .30 lead wire, not for casting (although it does balance the fly and you can cast these monsters) but more for getting the fly to sink quicker, we fish these below the bunker schools, and the weight helps them to fall through the school and below like a dying bunker, the ones that big lazy cows like to eat. Capt. gene quigley also ties up some monster Geno's Baby angels that are 12" and slay big bass. I will post some pics of these flies if i can get my digital to work.

Peter Mac

[ruge13]

Boyle's Red can squid is another good one. Easy to tie and rather large..not the average bait fish. I assume he will be at the Marlboro show if you are headed that way. Find him, I'm sure he'd tie one up for you. I thought I saw directions online somewhere to but couldn't find them.