Advice on Reel for SBFT

[Stormin']

I'm in the market for a reel to use with a 14wt set up (mainly for sbft) in the Boston area. I've looked around and think I have it norrowed down to 3 possibilities. During the process of elimination, I tried to find reels that have a great drag system, are easy to maintain, would allow for some flexibility and would/should last a lifetime. With that being said, here's what I came up with in no particular order of merit:

Gilmore 475 or 425 - probably the best drag, easy to switch spools, looks super easy to maintain (only a few parts), only a three year warranty.

Tibor - Gulfstream or Pacific - the reel everyone says is the best, great warranty, seems easy to maintain (however, appears to have many small parts if you decide to relube the drag), solid performer over time.

Ross 7 or 8 - Synthetic drag with zero maintenance, super easy to maintain (only 2 parts), easy to change out spools, great warranty. Haven't heard much on the bigger size reels, however, the small reels (4's and 5's) are awesome.

Anyway, I was hoping "the experts" could chime in on which reel they would recommend and why?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Slamdance]

If you're willing to spend the money, why not go with a Hayden? You won't find a better/stronger drag.

[thynnus]

Get the Tibor. American made and great service if you ever were to need it. Wouldn't even think about the Gilmore for tuna and I don't know how the Ross would do long term too. Ross is a nice smaller reel but I think it would end up failing with tuna.

[Mary Islet]

I'm in the market for a reel to use with a 14wt set up (mainly for sbft) in the Boston area. I've looked around and think I have it norrowed down to 3 possibilities.Anyway, I was hoping "the experts" could chime in on which reel they would recommend and why?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Although I realize your search has narrowed to three reels, for the record (no pun intended) there is another possibility for some that may really want to get the job done where large fish are concerned. But before providing the following information let me say I know some others will say the reel I mention is no longer in production and should not be considered because of warrenty issues. This is untrue as the warrenty stays in affect for the lifetime of the user. To my knowledge there has never been a failure of a Blue Water Charlton reel, nor do I expect one. In fact I would venture that if one could query the current IGFA world record holders who have used Charlton reels, they would say they got there moneys worth.

For the record: If one examines the current IGFA world records on a fly, they will find there are only 18 species where the record fish exceed 100 pounds. Of those 18 species Charlton holds 7 of them (the largest species) and in some holds multiple records on different tippets. This represents 39% of these world records. But when one considers that Charlton reels represent less than 3% of the number of Blue Water reels sold, a 33 to 1 ratio, that 39% number might as well be 99%. Listed below are some of the Charlton records I've mentioned:

Bluefin Tuna 20# Tippet 197 pounds 2001
Blue Marlin 20# Tippet 289 pounds 2002
Striped Marlin 16# Tippet 230 pounds 2002
Tarpon 16# Tippet 191 pounds 2003
Blue Shark 20# Tippet 165 pounds 1997
Striped Marlin 12# Tippet 154 pounds 2004
Black Marlin 16# Tippet 151 pounds 2003
Pacific Sailfish 12# Tippet 114 pounds 2003
Pacific Sailfish 20# Tippet 112 pounds 2003

Please take note of the dates here. Again these are just records for fish over 100 pounds and do not reflect the other current Charlton world records for Wahoo 1993 and 1994, Spearfish 2004, Dolphinfish 12# and 20# tippet 2003, Roosterfish 2002 and on and on down to even the current world record for Whitefish on 4# tippet. By the way the Bluefin Tuna record was set on a Charlton Model 8550C with a tarpon spool. There is at this moment a new one listed on Ebay. Let me say I am not on the payroll nor do I have any association with Charlton reels, but when I here all the banter about the best saltwater reel, I have to set the record straight. For those of you who would like the article in Flyfisherman magazine on the Bluefin record, e-mail me. No offense intended .... Mary

[thynnus]

I didn't include Charlton because they are no longer made. But they are in my opinion the best reels ever. You can still find them on ebay at about the current retail price. Regarding warranty - that would be the least of my concerns with a Charlton. Tibor or Abel will get the job done though. For what it is worth the new style Tibors have A LOT more drag than the regular ones.

[Count]

Get the Tibor. It has the strongest, smoothest drag out there and requires no maintenance. The Ross is a good reel for the money, but you'd better take care to rinse this reel after use in the salt. It's not maintenance-free and the drag is prone to corrosion.

Don't worry about lubing the Tibor for five or six years. At this point, pop the spool off, smear some of the graphite lube back onto the cork and keep going. You can put these reels through hard abuse for several years without their needing any maintenance.

For my money, Tibor is the best.

[JoeJ]

I would disagree with the post about Charlton Warranty. I was cosidering buying one back in Dec. and was concerned so I called 3M customer service. The Rep. told me the reels now only have a One Year warranty on them and one year after they sell the last of there stock they will no longer honor any warranty. By no means am I saying not to buy one, but S### does happen even to the best made products and you need to know the facts going in.

[Slamdance]

Get the Tibor. It has the strongest, smoothest drag out there and requires no maintenance...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Tibors and they would/are certainly be a great choice, but as far as having "...the strongest, smoothest drag out there...", well, that's just not true. I'd be happy to show you my Hayden.

[Mary Islet]

I would disagree with the post about Charlton Warranty. I was cosidering buying one back in Dec. and was concerned so I called 3M customer service.

JoeJ,

I know exactly where you're coming from and I agree one should know the facts. The copywrited slogan (by 3M) for Charlton reels is "One Lifetime, One Reel", and clearly stated on the warrenty letter within the box containing a Charlton reel is the declaration that the reel will be "repaired or replaced" in the event of defect. All the Kings horses and all the Kings men (or lawyers), or 25 year old phone reps can't spin it any other way. Now I know what you might say; who needs a p...sing match with a big company like 3M? I don't know whose lines you use but 80% of the world uses lines produced by 3M. And although the fly fishing industry is a small one I assure you 80% of the market represents serious dough, a lot more dough than the sale of Charlton reels. And because it is a small industry word gets around fast and with Rio nipping at thier heels, 3M can't afford to p..s the flyfishing fraternity off. You are correct, the best mechanical products can fail but enjoying the best gear and knowing you'll be cashed out if the worst should occur is not a bad proposition! If you would like a copy of the Charlton warrenty, just let me know. Best ........ Mary

[Roop]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Tibors and they would/are certainly be a great choice, but as far as having "...the strongest, smoothest drag out there...", well, that's just not true. I'd be happy to show you my Hayden.

I'm with Steve, go with Hayden. Contact Jay Horton or Chris/ Sage Fly Guy for specifics on the drags these reels put out.

Personally stopping power is the most important criteria & it's something I didn't consider when I acquired my
Fin-Nor #5. I am seriously considering selling mine so I can buy a Hayden as well.

Roop

[Smcdermott]

Can I get away with this reel for SBFT for a season or two. I would match it up with a TFO 12wt and I figure using 50lb spectra I should be able to get 350-400 yards of backing.

Thanks,
Sean

[formula1]

I wouldn't be as concerned about warranty - why? Because there is no guarantee that Hayden won't go out of business either...look at Steelfin - a reel recommended by many people for blue water FF and the owner decided to call it quits not too long ago so there is no longer any warranty for SF. So...the short of it is that at least 3M/Sci Anglers has ensured they have an adequate supply of parts to service Charlton's for the forseeable future (I spoke to the at length about this). And...the newer ones do have only a 1 year warranty but that doesn't really bother me, my gripe was where I would get service for the reel and that has been more than adequately answered for me. So...after some debate with people on the various sites and knowing I want the best blue water and big fish fly reel out there I went out and bought an 8550C along with an offshore spool and I don't regret the choice.

BTW for the poster who said the Tibor's new drag is a lot stronger than the old one, what source did you get this info from? What are the pertinent stats (i.e., drag of the new reels vs old)?

[sage fly guy]

I'm with Steve, go with Hayden. Contact Jay Horton or Chris/ Sage Fly Guy for specifics on the drags these reels put out.

Personally stopping power is the most important criteria & it's something I didn't consider when I acquired my
Fin-Nor #5. I am seriously considering selling mine so I can buy a Hayden as well.

Roop

You would be hard pressed to find a fly reel that made that puts out 20#'s of drag. Yeah I know, some people say I never push mine above 8#'s. Most likely because it can't go above 8#'s.

When you chasing beasts over 100#'s like shark, tuna, etc you want every advantage that you can put on your side. Having the ability to drop 30#'s of drag on a fish is not to be taken lightly. I know, some people say, I only fish IGFA tippet, so I don't need a lot of drag. "I also like to palm the spool." Now that's about as silly a statement as I have ever heard, I certainly hope that $700.00 brand spankin new reel can slow the fish down with out help from my hand. I regularly fish 30#+ tippet and it's a blast. When you have a 40# tippet and you can put an honest 35#'s of drag on a raging beast, he slows way the f' down. Your in command and can dictate the fight. Being able to lock the drag lever down when a fish is below the boat, and then lift with all your might and not have the spool move, now thats a reel.

Don't get me wrong I think Abel, Tibors, etc are marvelous reels. I just bought my first ABEL, it sure it pretty, but it ain't got no balls whatsoever. I'll attach 2 pictures below, one of my fancy new ABEL, 15#'s of drag tops, over $900.00. The second of Hayden 6, over 35#'s of drag, under $900.00.



Be prepared to match your reel/rod to your quarry, you don't want to be caught bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[Cuttbow]

Say What? Respectfully, 35 lbs of drag isn't fly fishing, it's enjoyable sport!! Some say bobbicator fishing with nymphs isn't real trout fishing, but I do that. But given the blue water realm, I'd rather have a 75 lb sbft on IGFA than a 100 on 40 pound tippet! If you want meat in the locker (and I carry both soy and wasabi in my boat bag) then use a spinner! With that said, I'm a firm believer in to each their own, so long as compliant with the regs, and if you want to whip fish faster on a tippet for a healthier release, I salute your enjoyment of the sport! I'm stuck on using sbft as training for IGFA yft, but I'm certain we'd still get along sharing casting space!!

[sage fly guy]

Say What? Respectfully, 35 lbs of drag isn't fly fishing, it's enjoyable sport!! Some say bobbicator fishing with nymphs isn't real trout fishing, but I do that. But given the blue water realm, I'd rather have a 75 lb sbft on IGFA than a 100 on 40 pound tippet! If you want meat in the locker (and I carry both soy and wasabi in my boat bag) then use a spinner! With that said, I'm a firm believer in to each their own, so long as compliant with the regs, and if you want to whip fish faster on a tippet for a healthier release, I salute your enjoyment of the sport! I'm stuck on using sbft as training for IGFA yft, but I'm certain we'd still get along sharing casting space!!


Well golly gee Wally, I'll sleep better tonight knowing that you approve of my pursuit of fly fishing in my own manner and form. ;)

And I say 35#'s to be conservative and kind to overpriced under performing reels, I've actually measured over 45#'s.

I'lll be vigilant to make sure every time I'm OTW I'm IGFA compliant, as they are the be all, end all of fly fishing.

[Punchshot]

Oh beaver ;)

[Cuttbow]

Games on! You bring those Aussie Haydens and acid wrapped jiggers, (and a shirt that I won't sweat through) and I'll bring the fly gear! Either way, we'll enjoy sashimi for lunch. Best, Cuttbow (AKA T'Una Mas!)

[formula1]

Hey Sagefly guy it seems like you took offense from Cuttbow but I think his post was spot on...I certainly agree with him in his philosophies but that's not to say I think any less or more of what you like in fly fishing. You like using 40+ lb. tippet or more on fish and that's fine, but at the same time you dismiss IGFA - yet you want a certain respect for your style of fishing - you can't have it both ways and not look like a hypocrite.

IGFA is not the be all and end all of fishing but they set a standard for us to measure ourselves against the best in the sport. For example, Tom Evans holds the 10 kg record for marlin at around 285 lb. Now if *you* were to catch a 300 lb. marlin on 40 lb test it would be a nice accomplishment but it in no way matches what Tom Evans does. The use of 10 kg (as well as other classes) allows us to measure ourselves against each other fairly no matter where we fish. If I catch a 300 lb. marlin on 10 kg tippet then I can justifiably claim to have beaten Tom Evans. If we took your fishing to an extreme, about how you can stop a fish in its tracks, then why not fish with 100 kg tippets? Or 200 kg? The entire idea of light tackle fishing is to push your tackle to the limits - how much skill is involved if the fish can't even break the line (which you imply by saying you crank down 35 lb. of drag to stop a fish dead). I don't know about you but I'm a little guy but I can bench 300 plus and I've messed around with 50 lb. tippet on a tarpon and it's not fun - I can literally manhandle the fish and drag his fishy butt back to boat in short order. It's much more fun to fish 12 lb., 16 lb. or even 20 lb. tippet, at least there the fish has a sporting chance as it *can* break the tippet if you don't fight him correctly.

To put another analogy, the idea behind any sport (and fishing *is* a sport) is to provide a level playing field (i.e., line classes) so that we can all see how we do against each other - now of course some people don't want to measure themselves against each other and that's fine. But many of us do (how many of us have pipe dreams of getting a record fish?) and we want a sporting fight against a fish. It's like having a college football player in a Pee-Wee football league.

[sage fly guy]

You fella's like to read to far into a post. Did I say I never fish IGFA tippet?? No. Let's put it a way you can understand it. Do I consider the boundries of my sport to be outlined purely by IGFA rules and reg's?? No. Do I fish IGFA, at times, yes. Do I fish tippet heavier than IGFA allows at times, YES.

Is that clear enough.

I don't think that everytime someone loads a fly rod and delivers a fly they must be following IGFA's set of guidelines. Guidelines that they have established merely for the pursuit of records.

Flyfishing is an individual pursuit that one can choose to practice in any way, shape or form they choose. Condoning how one practice's their sport is the mentality that for years fly fishermen followed, looking down their noses at how other angler's practiced their form of sport and enjoyment.

It's not IGFA Flyfishing listed in Webster's, it's just flyfishing.

fly-fish (flfsh)
intr.v. fly-·fished, fly-·fish·ing, fly-·fish·es
To fish using artificial flies for bait and usually a fly rod for casting.

IGFA Indiana Grain and Feed Association
IGFA International Game Fish Association
IGFA International Group of Funding Agencies for Global Change Research

chris

[riptide]

There are not many folks out there willing OR able to fight a near 100# tuna on ANY fly gear let alone IGFA tippet.

For the typicial FF'er looking for tuna, heavier than regulation tippet in the way to go. Their shots will be limited at hooking up, so why not make the most of the ones you do hook.

As for the meatlocker comment, the heavy tippet is FAR less likely to be used to fill the meat locker compared to 20# or less. I dare say ANY tuna 75# and up caught IGFA legal on fly gear is a dead fish. I'm sure someone's uncles brother caught and released one in a couple minutes, but truth is your killing the tuna with light drag and light tippets.

If thats what you want to do fine, I kill'm and grill'm too. But don;t think for a minute that the light line is better for the sport. It will most definately kill more fish, and that never helps the sport.

[sage fly guy]

.Their shots will be limited at hooking up, so why not make the most of the ones you do hook.


Cause the IGFA will spank their pee-pee. ;) --127-3- ;)

chris

[formula1]

There are not many folks out there willing OR able to fight a near 100# tuna on ANY fly gear let alone IGFA tippet.

For the typicial FF'er looking for tuna, heavier than regulation tippet in the way to go. Their shots will be limited at hooking up, so why not make the most of the ones you do hook.

As for the meatlocker comment, the heavy tippet is FAR less likely to be used to fill the meat locker compared to 20# or less. I dare say ANY tuna 75# and up caught IGFA legal on fly gear is a dead fish. I'm sure someone's uncles brother caught and released one in a couple minutes, but truth is your killing the tuna with light drag and light tippets.

If thats what you want to do fine, I kill'm and grill'm too. But don;t think for a minute that the light line is better for the sport. It will most definately kill more fish, and that never helps the sport.

Terry, I wouldn't disagree with you at all, for something like YFT or BFT I would recommend most folks go with heavier than IGFA...but the way Sagefly describes it, he uses line that basically allows him to horse a fish in - which to me is not sporting at all but that's fine... But I, and many others, prefer it to be at least sporting. People who don't have the experience fight a fish well, sure I would applaud their use of heavier tippet, and for guys like Sage Fly Guy who chooses to do so, more power to them, as Cuttbow says, enough room for all of us. But...I would not go and deride those who use IGFA which Sage Fly Guy has in the past and continues to do so in the guise of "humor." It's insulting to great fisherman like Evans, Pate, Apte etc. If Sage Fly Guy wants to horse a fish in, fine and dandy. But don't put down those who want a bit more sport and who can really fight a fish.

[albacized]

I can't fathom a 75 to 100 LB tuna being 'horsed in' on any fly tackle, no matter what tippet size is used. I've only caught them up to 50 LBS on light conventional gear (Shimano TLD10 was the reel I used) and it still took more than 15 to 20 minutes to land.

[thynnus]

If you want to use 30 or 40lb 'tippet' then why not just fish with conventional gear? Landing a fish on line like that has been done a million times.

[sage fly guy]

What is that you fella's don't seem to grasp.

You seem to have vision of 80# tippet and 75# BFT being skated in across the surface. If you think that, you are very misguided. I use 50# tippet for a day of blue/mako sharking. Not 80-100# sharks, but 200+# fish that are ****ed at the world. Who wants to spend an hour babying a fish on 20#, when you can lean into it and see what it gives you back. Ever have a 250# fish take 100 yards of line against 40# of drag on a fly rod??

I think it foolish for you believe you have a grasp of my fishing techniques or how I go about fly fishing. I guess I must have missed the day's you spent fishing with me. Don't be so hasty to judge people by how they enjoy their pursuit of flyfishing. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. The original point of the thread was a recommendation for a fly reel for BFT. I gave my choice and why.

IGFA recently came very close to adding 30# tippet class. And if they did then this topic would not be of discussion.

And I'm sure falla's such as Pate, Evans, Apte, etc probably wouldn't be insulted by the postings on an internet board. ;)

chris

[formula1]

What is that you fella's don't seem to grasp.

You seem to have vision of 80# tippet and 75# BFT being skated in across the surface. If you think that, you are very misguided. I use 50# tippet for a day of blue/mako sharking. Not 80-100# sharks, but 200+# fish that are ****ed at the world. Who wants to spend an hour babying a fish on 20#, when you can lean into it and see what it gives you back. Ever have a 250# fish take 100 yards of line against 40# of drag on a fly rod??

And I'm sure falla's such as Pate, Evans, Apte, etc probably wouldn't be insulted by the postings on an internet board. ;)

chris

Who said anything about 80-100# sharks on 20 lb tippet either? Considering that sharks up to 300+ lb. have been caught on 20 lb tippet personally I think 50# is way overkill for a 200 or even 300 lb. fish in many circumstances - to me a 4:1 or 6:1 ratio of fish weight to tippet/line strength is not light tackle fishing. How you want to do it is fine with me, but to me and others it isn't very sporting. If you can stop a fish dead with the tippet you are using (as you have stated in the past), then landing it IMO is a foregone conclusion short of the hook popping out or leader abrading through. As you said, I've never fished with you, I am only going by your description.

And who says I baby fish with 20 lb? With 20 lb I can still whip most 100-150 lb fish (YFT excluded) in 15 minutes. That's not babying, that's pushing your tackle as hard as it will go.

[thynnus]

I am not saying you could 'skate a 75lb tuna on 80lb tippet' but why use 'fly' tackle to fish heavy tippets? Whats the point/where is the challenge? As I said every one knows it is relatively easy to beat a fish with 40 or 50lb 'tippet' so where is the acomplishment in that? Fly fishing is supposed to be more challenging than plain old gear. Want to fish with 40 might as well use a 30W and a stand up rod, then you could really but max pressure on the fish... I hope I never see the day that the IGFA opens up to heavier tippets or allows the usage of longer shock tippets as well.

[riptide]

I don't know what kind of expeirience you guys have, or how you have/plan to fish for these tuna. But if you think that fighting the fish is the only hard part when it comes to FFing for tuna your WAY off base. Unless your chunking them to the surface and roll casting a fly into the melee (which isn't really all that sporting) casting is as much a part of the deal. Trying to lead a pod of fish swimming 12kts in 3-4' at 80' with a 14 wt is DAMN HARD! Thats the part that makes FFing for tuna difficult.

Now if your chunking them thats a whole other ball game, but since this thread is about SBFT and MOST of the guys in this area chase them rather than chunk them that has to be considered.

While I'm no expert on catching SBFT I dare say I've put as many on the boat as anyone else in this race. I run Haydens on my boat. If I had to pick another reel it would be the Tibor Pacific. That is the reel that several of the best tuna guides in our area use with great success. After all like Sage said, that was the original question.

[riptide]

I am currious though Cutbow, thynnus, Formula1 how much expierience do you guys have with tuna on the fly?

Not looking to start anything, just clarify. When people ask for advice they need to consider the level of skill those answering have.

I know Slamdance and Sage and both like myself have a TON of time OTW playing with SBFT.

Perhaps we need to rethink our position if those with more time doing this or those that have landed more fish than we have do it differently.

[Slamdance]

I am selling my Haydens and buying Sci-Angler System IIs. I will only fish 12lb. tippets on 6-weights. I hope this makes everyone happy.

I will also be selling my 300hp pick-up and buying a Segway scooter to replace it.

Let me know if anyone wants to swap.

[Cuttbow]

Let's return this hi-jacked thread back to the original inquiry: What reel? My preference for big tunas is the Tibor Pacific. I own 2. Each is paired to a Cam Sigler 16/17 stick (I own 2 factory sticks, and just had a third blank custom built.) I also use an Abel 4n/arm, but I think it lacks the capacity to be used for big tunas, even backed with spectra. I usually use that reel on a Cam Sigler 12 weight rod. Another reel that I have used for Tunas is the Steelfin Vario 120. The drag is superbly smooth, I do like the lever drag, and as it is a standard arbor it has ample capacity. I just prefer the pickup speed of the Tibor Pacifics when chasing tunas. The Vario is really a 12 weight reel anyway. The other large reel I use is a Nautilus 12S. I received a prototype last summer that developed some issues, but Kristen Mustad has since fixed the issues. The repaired reel has yet to be ridden hard, so while I like the drag and the lightness, I'm withholding judgment. I pair it with a TFO 14 weight rod, which I consider to be a good rod for yellowfin tunas up to about 70 pounds, at which point it is bottomed out. I have also received a Wellstone reel, which so far has been flawless. It holds lots of capacity with spectra backing, but I still consider it a 12 weight reel and I haven't had an opportunity to test it with large tunas (because when big fish are around I grab the Pacifics!) Riptide asked about my experience? I consider myself an experienced yellowfin chasing fly fisherman, and that's how I choose to spend my travel trips. I've taken many yf tuna over 50 pounds over the past 5 years from Bermuda, Louisiana, North Carolina, California, Mexico and Panama. My best yellowfin on IGFA fly is 86 and change taped, and it was caught quickly enough (emphasis on "enough" as it wasn't a "fast" fish to the boat) and healthy enough for a good release so we didn't weigh it. I've chunked some (mostly in Bermuda and Louisiana), but I agree that casting to moving schools under dolphins is a more challenging and therefore enjoyable, although perhaps less productive, game. I like Cam's sticks because the do cast and lift well, and the tip is soft enough to protect a 10kg tippet!!

[Slamdance]

I don't understand this whole arguement. How is using a 16/17 weight fly rod sporting (using your earlier logic), but using a 30 pound tippet and a strong drag is not? It's obvious you go out there with what you consider to be the best equipment available. Why shouldn't that be the case for everyone?

[Cuttbow]

I never said anything about 30 pound tippet not being sporting. In fact, I acknowledged that in many instances it may be better for the fish to get it in quickly so that it can be better released. When we encounter schools of smaller tunas in the 15-30 lb class, it's a kick to grab a 12 or 14 weight rod and a straight section of 30 as a leader and just go pull hard. The cast, the take a good fight and a healthy release (or lactic free sashimi) makes for fun days on the water. I also agree with Riptide that for kids and novices, heavier tippets can get them into the game more quickly. This too is a good thing. Nor have I denied anyone their chosen tackle. This whole thread has gotten way sideways! While I disagree with Sage Fly Guy's statement that IGFA is only for record seekers, I do agree with him that the sport of flyfishing is to defined by the individual. Some like gummy minnows, some don't. I'm no bamboo/silk gut/hair and feather flies only user, and I readily concede (and use to every advantage) that technology and fine equipment has enabled the bluewater game that I pursue. It's not for me to declare how you or he must fish, or with what tackle. Personally, I like to adhere to the "standardized" IGFA rules when chasing big fish because I believe that it makes me become a better angler. It has no bearing on what you or anyone else chooses to do. It's not just casting and fighting fish, but I enjoy building leaders with good knots and becoming familiar with my gear and drag settings. When big fish are around, I use my big fish rigs because they are comfortable for me and I know how they will perform. How you leap from this simple premise to a broad declaration that 16/17 weight blanks are not "sporting" eludes me. I'm not throwing rocks, I don't live in a glass house, and I think we have far more in agreement than the tenor of this thread has suggested. Cheers!

[sage fly guy]

I do agree with him that the sport of flyfishing is to defined by the individual.......... It's not for me to declare how you or he must fish, or with what tackle. Personally, I like to adhere to the "standardized" IGFA rules when chasing big fish because I believe that it makes me become a better angler. It has no bearing on what you or anyone else chooses to do.................. I'm not throwing rocks, I don't live in a glass house, and I think we have far more in agreement than the tenor of this thread has suggested. Cheers!

EXCELLENT!!!


My premise exactly, put much more succinctly than my 2 celled brain allows for.

You choose to do it your way and love it. Other's do it differently from you or I, but that in no way makes it wrong or should at all diminish or belittle their enjoyment of our sport.


Damn, winter needs to be done with.


chris

[Slamdance]

Well, you're right. You did not say 30# tippets weren't sporting (someone else did) but you did have these comments:


Say What? Respectfully, 35 lbs of drag isn't fly fishing, it's enjoyable sport!!

and

You bring those Aussie Haydens and acid wrapped jiggers, ...and I'll bring the fly gear!

What''s an "acid wrapped jigger" if not a 16/17 weight "fly" rod?

You obviously think a 16/17 weight fly rod is fly fishing. I don't, but SageFly Guy does too. It's nice to be able to go out with a reel capable of 35 pounds of drag. No one says you need to use all that drag, but it's there if you need it. But, when you fish 16/17 weight you can't switch it mid-fight into a 12-weight.

I think it's time to put this to bed.

[thynnus]

I am currious though Cutbow, thynnus, Formula1 how much expierience do you guys have with tuna on the fly?

I have taken fish to about 60lbs on the fly, 20lb tippet.

One of them is here...

[Cuttbow]

SFG and I have some friendly history, share knowledge and experience with several acid wrappers, and have put this one to bed. While you call out a few of my quotes, you're mssing the bigger picture. There's nothing more to this some some good natured, late winter razzing, and the fact that it did lead to a good discussion of the whys and hows of the sport we share. See you on the tuna grounds! Enough....

[sage fly guy]

No, No, No

Let's keep the bickering going, until we at least hit 1000 views.

I've always said no good learning comes out of blatant rump swabbing, it's dissension in the troops that helps keep new ideas and techniques rising to the forefront. This is how we become better angler's, making each other think about our own techniques while also considering something new.

When we stop learning about fishing, it's time to get planted 6 under.

chris

[Slamdance]

No one knows rump-swabbing better than Sage Fly Guy. At least we can all agree on that!

[josko]

Please don't stop.

[Slamdance]

Please don't stop.

Who let you in here?

[Jim Miller]

blatant rump swabbing
Chris......where do you get this stuff? :eek:

Actually...an interesting thread :)

[Cuttbow]

You mean you use a harness too??!! ;)

[sage fly guy]

No one knows rump-swabbing better than Sage Fly Guy. At least we can all agree on that!



Hey, I resemble that remark. --127-3-



"blatant rump swabbing"


Chris......where do you get this stuff?

Actually...an interesting thread


From yelling at the kids, you constantly have to come up with new stuff. ;)

chris

[Roop]

Let's see...

It's OK to use 10 kg tippet (22.05#) leader if you're looking to set a record but a 30, 40 or 50# leader is not sporting...

It's OK to use a 12 weight but not a 14, 15 or 18 weight...

I think you're all a bunch of swabbers. Real men use 4# mono & a yo-yo and pull 'em in hand over hand --125-3

Oh yeah, don't forget the sales ad for a discontinued reel ;)

[thynnus]

Let's see...

It's OK to use 10 kg tippet (22.05#) leader if you're looking to set a record but a 30, 40 or 50# leader is not sporting...

It's OK to use a 12 weight but not a 14, 15 or 18 weight...



I never said the higher leader strengths aren't sporting just questioned why they be used on fly tackle. If you want to fish with line like that then why not use a spinning rod or stand up gear? Because if landing the fish quickly is a concern than those types of tackle would be far more efficient at getting the job done than an 8 or 9ft fly rod.

[sage fly guy]

OK,

This one has cooled off a bit. But really guys, how often does a Tackle Forum thread become a Grander..........................Let's make it happen............Can we do it fly fish proper like or do we need to act like bait dunking animals????

Summer's getting closer and that means soon we aren't gonna have time for this BS ;)

chris

[Stormin']

Hi All,

Thank you for the spirited answers and advice on my original question. By the sounds of running debate, most of you need a vacation or to get back on your baots worse than I do!

Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know that I picked up a Tibor Gulfstream the other day. And........to keep the debate raging, I decided to forgo the IGFA records and use 50lb gel spun backing with the RIO - First Light Angler's 14wt line and 40lb fluorocarbon leader.

Tight lines!

[sage fly guy]

Excellent choices all-around.

I use the First Light Rio line on 3 of my set-ups. I think you will be very well served by that set-up.

What type of stick are you mounting it on.


chris

[Stormin']

Hi Chris,

I have a Sage RPLX 14wt that's been sitting around in the tube for a few years. The rod still looks brand new and doesn't have a mrk on it. Can't wait to finally try it out!!!!!!

Tight line,

Norm

[peter mac]

Hey Stormin',
You have done well, that is a sweet set up, I fish Gulfstreams on my rigs for CCB BFTs, both 12 and 14wts. The Sage RPLX 14 is a great stick!!......good luck.
Peter Mac

[sage fly guy]

OK,

I re-read this whole load of mostly crap. But from it we can glean some very specific useful info.

So far, for reels we have come to merely 3; Hayden, Charlton, & Tibor.

All phenomenal choices, with their own +'s/-'s.

Hayden has 3 models that will dump from 0-25+#'s of drag, anti reverse, double carbon fiber drag sytem, very high line capacity, almost completely handmade,(+'s) although a bit heavy, one man operation, not American made, warranty service in Australia(-'s)

Charlton has a very devoted following(I wish I could afford one), silky smooth drag system, adequate drag output, superbly machined(+'s), although they are no longer being made, warranty issues with 3M(perhaps someone will find out definitively), direct drive only, possible non-repairable at factory after time frame(although Mr. Archuleta can fix anything), possible lack of available x-spools, very expensive even though discontinued(-'s).


Tibor, with the Gulfstream and Pacific has two possible entries, reasonable $$, very smooth, low maintenance, made in USA, superior warranty service, adequate line capacity,(+'s), perhaps the only drawbacks when compared to the other 2 is the least powerful drag system, and also only direct drive(-'s).

For the angler just entering the offshore areas of fly fishing, I would have to give a really good hard look at Tibor as it seems to fill all the needs you could have.

Perhaps other's have had experience with different fly reel that could handle a 100# BFT. Abel and Steelfin ring to mind, and it seems to me I read somewhere that Islander has a very capable bluewater reel.

It took 4 pages of shack nasty's to get some good info, but perhaps it will prove useful to some. If you info on other reels capable of handling these beasts, let hear about them.

chris

[Slamdance]

The Penn 4.0 can definatley take a fish up to 200 pounds. It's not a glamour reel, it's heavy and tough to change spools without being in a clean room, but it's a Mack truck.

Then there's the Abel that Slogget tamed his 200-pounder on. Not sure of the model but it was on a 10-weight fly rod. Of course, it took him close to 4 hours.

[Cuttbow]

Let's throw some more fuel on the fire, it's getting cool in here..... I too just re-read the 4 pages of "shack nastys", and it just occurred to me that you are fishing anti-reverse!! The high drags do help in a slugfest if handicapped with the slippage that is inevitable with an anti-reverse reel. Are you a surgeon or famous musician or something? Why not just go direct?;)

[sage fly guy]

Let's throw some more fuel on the fire, it's getting cool in here..... I too just re-read the 4 pages of "shack nastys", and it just occurred to me that you are fishing anti-reverse!! The high drags do help in a slugfest if handicapped with the slippage that is inevitable with an anti-reverse reel. Are you a surgeon or famous musician or something? Why not just go direct?;)


Call me insane, but I prefer my $1000.00 fly reels keep up with modern day technology's.

And on the flip side I need my fingers intact for work or I won't be able to support my tackle habit.

chris

[Roop]

I want a bluegill pendant!

[masssalt]

Let's throw some more fuel on the fire, it's getting cool in here..... I too just re-read the 4 pages of "shack nastys", and it just occurred to me that you are fishing anti-reverse!! The high drags do help in a slugfest if handicapped with the slippage that is inevitable with an anti-reverse reel. Are you a surgeon or famous musician or something? Why not just go direct?;)

What are you talking about, " Slippage inevitable with an anti-reverse reel?"

[Cuttbow]

With any AR reel, you cannot retrieve line except up to the limit of what the reel drag setting permits.

If you don't believe that, crank the drag all the way off with an AR reel and dry to gain line on a fish using just palm drag.

With a DD reel, you can regain line even if the reel has absolutely no drag mechanism of any kind other than a palmable rim. You don't even need a palmable rim.

An ordinary Pflueger medallist can and has been used to take many large tarpon, with basically no drag at all, only what your fingertips can provide. That is only possible because it is a direct drive reel. But talking about history merely points out that designers and manufacturers have given us new gear that makes practical things we couldn't do very well before. Hence, the point I made that a high drag capacity (e.g. Haydens) allows one to benefit from A/R in ways not previously possible before.

Do I get a bluefin pendant now? ;)

[Roop]

I want a bluegill pendant!

Full sarcasm mode intended above.

Cutbow, you should join Chris & I some time & we'll do a field test/ comparison for the DD v. A/R.

Roop

[Cuttbow]

Hey Roop ! I know Chris is good for a day on the water and given the snow and slop we've had here, I'm already thinking late summer's run can't come soon enough. My trip to Long Beach, CA in February was stormed out (even if the rain, winds and waterspouts weren't enough, there was so much debris in the water I wouldn't have put my boat on the line either!), and then when we looked into a quick trip to the Lump the bite disappeared, so I haven't even been able to pull on anything with a hard tail lately. Heck, I spent yesterday at the bench tying, washing a few lines, reattaching some new butt sections, patching my waders and then just as it started to snow again I went down to see if any steelhead were moving up our local creek. I'm hoping that the June chunk bite in Bermuda for yellowfin is a good one, but that seems a long way off!!

[masssalt]

cutbow, that's what the lever drag is there for. It is just like fighting a fish with a Penn big game reel. I seem to recall that several large fish have been landed on them????? :confused:

[rhodyflyguy]

ding fries are done...
interesting topic. plenty of 12/14 wts have been snapped. Has a 15wt+ been snapped yet on any tackle? i havent heard of it. From the sounds of it, plenty of people have yet to put their tackle to the limit. When these huge rods get bent into the bottom cork, let me know. That;s got to be a good picture.
Also, could a Tibor Back Country Wide loaded with 40 lb. spectra backing handle BFT to 35 lbs. or so on a 10 wt.? Thanks, I gotta run.

[sage fly guy]

I'll attach one of my favorite pics from last year of the 19 weight with a pretty good bend in it. The angler in the pic(Roop) is about 6'2" and well over 2 bills.

I just got one of the Tibor Back Country Wides from Cabela's. And while it is a super reel for perhaps blues/stripes to 12/20#'s, a 35# Bluefin would cause it to go nuclear.

chris

[Jim Miller]

Hey Chris
What's on the other end of that string? :eek:
nice picture of Roop....too bad that "other" guy is in there too! --123-3 You'd be better off with a second & more photogenic fellow from the Adirondacks! :brow

[Fin Addiction]

I have two Penn 4.0's...One DD and the other AR....For the $$ you can't go wrong....but hey if you look at one and say.."ahhh it's just chump change for that reel" then more power to you for spending more $$ to get the same job done! :cool:

[rhodyflyguy]

how much drag were you fishing there? 35# woulb be the max fish i would likely see. i'd mostly be running and gunning off newport, if the fish return, or out at newport.
Also, as a side note, i took my orvis pro guide mid arbor, clamed the drag down, and started sprinting, and the thing didn't melt. 3 weeks till florida false albacore --123-3

[Mary Islet]

I'll attach one of my favorite pics from last year of the 19 weight with a pretty good bend in it. The angler in the pic(Roop) is about 6'2" and well over 2 bills.chris

Looks like roop is using a Charlton reel in the picture; do you know?

[Mary Islet]

Also, as a side note, i took my orvis pro guide mid arbor, clamed the drag down, and started sprinting, and the thing didn't melt. 3 weeks till florida false albacore --123-3

Assuming you sprint at over 40 MPH from one goal post to the other, I'd say thats a great reel. Wish I could go Albie fishing right now. Good luck!

[sage fly guy]

Looks like roop is using a Charlton reel in the picture; do you know?


It was the Hayden 6

[uncle4]

Personally, I'd say my favorite is the Accon 8" -- splurge and get the
pop-up model if you can afford it (photo below). <hehehehe>

Of the three reels you mentioned, I'd say the Tibor, then <mebbe>
Ross. I've had better luck with Tibor vs Ross (in so far as maintenance/
performance goes).

I also concur that Charlton makes an amazing reel (used by 10x10 for
decades on 4 continents!). There're other speciality reels, too (look at the
Abyss from Steel Fin for something over-the-top).

If you're in a nimble boat (e.g. 18-24' open/outboard) the capt. ought to
be able to maneuver such that any of the reels you're thinking of should
perform well.

Cheers,

Uncle 4

[rhodyflyguy]

albies don;t run fast against 6 lbs. of drag, or not too fast. I top out at about 17.349045784601265780947 mph.

[catspaw]

General rule of thumb for offshore fising with conventional gear is 1/3 the breaking strength of the line. If you're using 130lb test that means 43 lbs of drag-that's on an international 130! Most fly lines break anything in excess of 35#s. This doesn't take into consideration of any drag the line ripping through the water adds. Try and lift a concrete block with a fly rod and you'll get some idea. Bends the mind.

[Cuttbow]

Most would be surprised with a 10lb dumbell plate! I've never seen it it done, but I always thought a great tug of war could ensue with two anglers paired off, each with 50 or 100 feet of line out, each tied to the same flag with 10 kg tippet, GO!!

[sage fly guy]

OK, next test.

First I did 10, then 20 , then finally 30. Three ten pound plates looped together with 40# mono(couldn't use my IGFA 20#, it would break) one after another.


Oh yeah, I DIDN'T touch the spool to stop if from slipping. ;)


Try that with a Charlton or Tibor. (#$119)

chris

[Cuttbow]

That's impressive! What rod did you use? Were you standing on the floor or were you above the weight to begin (like standing on a chair or hanging over a balcony?) Lifting weights from the dock or floor is impressive, but leads to high sticking (that horizontal plane thing we discussed yesterday!). Most fly rods (and though I haven't tried it I'd include my Cam's in the group!) won't get anywhere near a 30 pound static floorlift without exploding no matter what reel is locked down on the other end!!

[sage fly guy]

Much to my wife's happiness, from the dining room chair.

Rod raised just degrees over 90. I need more bottom room, or get on the table ;) I know it's not the most scientific test, but tonight I'll try adding another 10, then 2.5's, if it fails at 40 I'll go by 2.5 from 30.

Cape Fear 19.

chris

[Mary Islet]

OK, next test.

Try that with a Charlton or Tibor. (#$119)

chris

You name the test of reel drag and I'll race my Charlton 8600 against your reel any day for pink slips. Maybe we can run a dynamic drag test starting at say 30# at 4000 RPM for one hour, then go up from there. Side bets allowed.

[sage fly guy]

You name the test of reel drag and I'll race my Charlton 8600 against your reel any day for pink slips. Maybe we can run a dynamic drag test starting at say 30# at 4000 RPM for one hour, then go up from there. Side bets allowed.



OK, Great--Internet bets on reel performance. :eek:

[Cuttbow]

This winter has begun to take a toll on the natives, who must be getting restless!

[josko]

I think that Charlton would be a basket of molten parts before Sage's Hayden worked up a sweat.

[sage fly guy]

You name the test of reel drag and I'll race my Charlton 8600 against your reel any day for pink slips. Maybe we can run a dynamic drag test starting at say 30# at 4000 RPM for one hour, then go up from there. Side bets allowed.


OK, sorry for the sarcasm. Let the tests begin.

First test: Dead lift 30#'s without the drag slipping. Get back to me with your results.

Josko, molten parts would seep thru a basket. ;)

chris

[Cuttbow]

Predator or borrow one of your rods?!! At 30+ pounds I'm less concerned for my reels than the stability of the fibers in the rod and I'd hate to wreck Jim's work on something like lead weights that isn't breathing on the other end of the line! :rolleyes:

[Mary Islet]

OK, sorry for the sarcasm. Let the tests begin.

First test: Dead lift 30#'s without the drag slipping. Get back to me with your results.

Josko, molten parts would seep thru a basket. ;)

chris

Chris -

In all seriousness I'm sure Hayden is a fine reel and from what I've heard it has a good range of drag. But I could only take note of your comment when comparing it to the drag range of a Charlton reel. I know you must be proud of your reel and I'm sure for good reason. I have never fished a Hayden but would love to as I've heard good things about them. But with regard to line tension drag I can only tell you that the my Charlton 8600s will hold fast at 30# all day long - or 40#. But these are just static tests. You likely do not have the machinery to conduct dynamic line tension tests but I do. I have no reason to exagerate or attempt to mis-lead you or others in any way; but I'm telling you now my 8600s will run continuiously at 4000 RPM with a 30 pound line tension. If a Hayden can do this as well, fine. I can't comment on Hayden but I can comment regarding Charlton reels as I own nearly 50 of them. This is just a suggestion Chris, but what say we go about our business appreciating what we own and without casting espersions on another mans equipment with which we may not be familiar. Best ..... MI

[Mary Islet]

I think that Charleton would be a basket of molten parts before Sage's Hayden worked up a sweat.

I think you are confusing the Charlton reel manufactured by Charlton Outdoor Technologies, Burlington, Washington, USA ,with the lessor quality charleton reel from Asia.

[sage fly guy]

Good monolouge(ing),


First an offer a challenge to test the reels, in any form. My reel passed the first test in REALITY, not in my mind or cyberspace. Do the same or, or go back to monlogue(ing).


chris

WOW!!!!!! Over 2,000 views. A winter long thread. ;)

[Cuttbow]

Earlier today I learned what a "Mother Hubbard" clause was in a deed in Kansas. Scary stuff! Maybe I can learn two today: What's "Monlogue(ing)"? It doesn't sound like seasonal maintenance on a reel, but maybe it's like Cal's "blueprinting"?!! Wasn't there an off Broadway show titled something like "Vagina Monlogues"?! Anyway, careful on the chairs! If you get HER too angry we won't get out this season!!

[sage fly guy]

Monologue(ing)

The art of answering a question while avoiding the actual question.


chris

[Mary Islet]

Monologue(ing)

The art of answering a question while avoiding the actual question.


chris

I haven't heard any questions yet. What the hell IS the question?

[Cuttbow]

As you know, I respect the Charlton reels. But I don't think they're designed to run 40 lbs of drag. If you disagree, let me know. But to paraphrase an earlier inquiry of me, what's you're biggest tuna? It's a small group of devoted century class yellowfin chasers (albeit limited to IGFA) that I'm aware of, but that community spreads from OZ to here, and far way points in between. If you're in the game, let me know and we can share. If you're chasing bigger bluefin, it's all good. The question I'd pose is this: What's your game?

[Mary Islet]

As you know, I respect the Charlton reels. But I don't think they're designed to run 40 lbs of drag. If you disagree, let me know. What's your game?


Cuttbow, At the expensive of monologue(ing) or whatever, I'll tell you my game at this time: setting the record straight on Charlton reel drag specs. When a participant in this forum delights as if they had discovered the holy graile when they find thier reel dead lifts 30#, I'm happy for them. Almost chuckled cause I've been there. But when in the same breath they declare feloniously that another reel won't perform the same task .... well I'm here to set the record straight. I don't know why you feel Charlton wasn't designed to pull 40#s of drag (I assume you do not own one) but you are mistaken, particularly in the two largest models ... 8550C and 8600B. Both reels shipped set at 15 and 20#s continuious drag respectively. Most people just don't want more drag than that. Brad Kistler used only half of the 15# landing the 196# Bluefin record .... to the boat in 1:15. But these reels have been shipped with drags set to 50# at customer request. I know, I have two of them. They were designed with much higher drag capacity but that's not what most of the public wants and for a manufacturer the public's the boss. And you're right we could share more than you know. Thanks for an honest post. ............... Mary

[sage fly guy]

They were designed with much higher drag capacity but that's not what most of the public wants and for a manufacturer the public's the boss. ............... Mary


Obviously not, they don't even manufacture them anymore. :confused:

My point was you offer a contest reel to reel, first contest, go strap your favorite Charlton to your best bluewater stick and dead lift 30#'s from the floor.

Complete that part then we'll move on to the next. Merely stating that it can do it and actually doing it are two different beasts altogether. If it can throw 50#'s this shouldn't be hard at all in reality.................

Teach us all about Charlton's so we can go to the local fly shop and grab one.


chris

[Mary Islet]

Obviously not, they don't even manufacture them anymore. :confused:

My point was you offer a contest reel to reel, first contest, go strap your favorite Charlton to your best bluewater stick and dead lift 30#'s from the floor.

Complete that part then we'll move on to the next. Merely stating that it can do it and actually doing it are two different beasts altogether. If it can throw 50#'s this shouldn't be hard at all in reality.................

Teach us all about Charlton's so we can go to the local fly shop and grab one.


chris

I don't need to move ANYWHERE pardner!! In reality, anybody that knows superior equipment has already been to thier local fly shop to grab one (that would be a Charlton reel) because, " in reality " thier world records speak for themselves. By the way, World records spell documentation. In laymans terms this means evidence .....yeh that's it ... Reality !!!!!! In reality , I don't believe Hayden has ever scored a world record on a big game fish. You see, reality is the ability to verify not just tell storys. But maybe you don't believe in the 20# rule used by the IGFA, fine, so please verify the biggest BFT you've caught and landed on tippets greater than 20#, or maybe by others using a Hayden reel. If you can't, maybe it's because one doesn't land fish IN THIER LIVING ROOM HANGING WIEGHTS FROM A BROOMSTICK !!!! And, " In REALITY " , how much are you prepared to put in an escrow account for this contest? Because I've had enough of your CRAP !!!.

[josko]

I think you are confusing the Charlton reel manufactured by Charlton Outdoor Technologies, Burlington, Washington, USA ,with the lessor quality charleton reel from Asia.

My mistake, mary. I was thinking of the Charlton reel made by 3M (the Post-it people), probably with parts and labor scavanged from all around the globe.

[Danny/Revere]

OK I am from Revere, When do the stipers start running up the mystic?
I always fish in Winthrop. I am always looking for something more exciting
does anyone know any good places to fish in this area? last 2 years has not been good at all, I usually just catch and release.

Please Help I can not wait to go fishing for stripers & Blues

[Fin Addiction]

Sage....your funny...--127-3- Were you not on the bandwagon raving about those Avets and all that drag in a small package they could punch out? I heard what happened to them in the *real world*....I will probably never own a Hayden unless a customer gives me one :brow but I just don't understand why anyone would care if a *flyreel* puts out 30-50lbs of drag...(#$119)

Cheers budy!:-%

[sage fly guy]

Sage....your funny...--127-3- Were you not on the bandwagon raving about those Avets and all that drag in a small package they could punch out? I heard what happened to them in the *real world*....I will probably never own a Hayden unless a customer gives me one :brow but I just don't understand why anyone would care if a *flyreel* puts out 30-50lbs of drag...(#$119)

Cheers budy!:-%

Some of us have never jumped of the AVET bandwagon. ;)

chris

[sage fly guy]

You name the test of reel drag and I'll race my Charlton 8600 against your reel any day for pink slips. Maybe we can run a dynamic drag test starting at say 30# at 4000 RPM for one hour, then go up from there. Side bets allowed.


Unless I'm mistaken, you offered up the idea, not me?????????? :confused:

Must have been a really long winter up thar in the woods........... :eek:

Now go take your Prozac............... --127-3-

chris

[Slamdance]

This is Fun(ny)!

Just so you know, my dad can beat up both your dads.

I knew Sage Fly Guy was a tackle junkie, but did I read correctly that Mary has over 50 Charltons? That borders on insanity. If you can teach me how to use more than one reel at a time, I'm all ears.

The largest bluefin landed on my boat with a Hayden was 85 pounds (of course looking at some of the "40-60 pound" tuna guys post here, It may have been closer to 150 pounds:)) . It was landed in under 20 minutes (with no harness). The biggest I've ever seen landed was close to 200 pounds on an Abel with a 10-weight.

[sage fly guy]

I think I need some Prozac, or maybe something stronger. --125-3

chris

[Roop]

Not that anyone should listen or care but:

1. I propose Mr. Churbuck write an essay on the "internet fishing forum user's curve" detailing the expected posting curve from: this is great > what's the best line, rod, reel, glasses > where do i fish > look what I caught > how dare you talk about where you caught it > you're all a bunch of dope's/ I know best... I wish someone had made me read something like that years ago.

2. Along Slamdance's post re: 50 Charlatan reels owned by MI, 14 out of 17 posts on RT by Mary are about the merits of Charlton reels - bordeline SPAM? At least my buddy Sage's 50 reels range from Zebco to Shimano to Tibor to Hayden to Avet

3. RE: Sage & records - give him some time, the kid's the real deal

4. RE: the newest sponsor here & his question re: Avet... many people are still on the wagon, I'll be buying a few more.

[peter mac]

Glad I am not the only one losing his/her mind due to this LONG COLD WINTER, seems quite apparent that we all need to go fishing SOON ......the thread is entertaining to say the least............

[Jim Miller]

Well said Jeff!
I would also like to add my perspective. A big thanks to "all" who are buying and testing these great reels. Most of us cannot afford to buy a $1000 reel to "test". It's a big venture......now times that by 50 (holy crap!)
The views and experience posted by you guys makes the average fellow feel a little safer in plunking down the coin for new equip! Thanks again!
BTW: I purchased a Avet EXW 50 (conventional) and am very impressed w/ the quality and drag.
Also I bought my first Tibor Everglades almost 14 years ago...still going strong! I too research and listen to the "testers" before making a purchase....it's all good! :-%

[thynnus]

Teach us all about Charlton's so we can go to the local fly shop and grab one.


chris

You can find the Charltons right next to the haydens in your local fly shop.

[rhodyflyguy]

is thereaby way to order just the drag onthe hayden? the reason i ask is thaey are a little much to order straight, and my bestfriends owns a CNC lathe, and my dad has has access to QC7 or 6061 aluminum, so i want to get a custom. chris, it'll be prettier than your abel.

[sage fly guy]

is thereaby way to order just the drag onthe hayden? the reason i ask is thaey are a little much to order straight, and my bestfriends owns a CNC lathe, and my dad has has access to QC7 or 6061 aluminum, so i want to get a custom. chris, it'll be prettier than your abel.


A CNC lathe, hmmmmmmm.

I could be your best friend and we'll just dissect one. --125-3

chris

[sage fly guy]

You can find the Charltons right next to the haydens in your local fly shop.


Keep your eye's open. ;)

I'm not gonna spill the beans though. I've been sworn to secrecy.


chris

[thynnus]

Keep your eye's open. ;)

I'm not gonna spill the beans though. I've been sworn to secrecy.


chris

Really, I am SOOO excited. I can hardly wait....

[sage fly guy]

Really, I am SOOO excited. I can hardly wait....

Your boyfriend leave or something............................ :confused:

[thynnus]

Boy, you sure get upset when some one criticizes your reel. It must be that time of the month, why don't you just insert your tampon and relax.

[rhodyflyguy]

aww, so cute

[Jim Miller]

Thynnus
better hurry up....you will miss the bus for elementary school.
Why take it to that level?

[sage fly guy]

Thynnus
better hurry up....you will miss the bus for elementary school.
Why take it to that level?


Jimbo,

Quite alright, were breaking new ground here. Let's see just what it takes to get to 3000 views on this thread. Imagine that 3000 on a Tackle Forum. That would have to be an all-time internet record.


And if Thynnus feels dating my mother makes up for all his favorite rest areas closing, I'm OK with that. --127-3-


chris

I wonder what happened to the hermaphrodite from the West Coast?

[Cuttbow]

And it seemed like we'd just recently stoked this fire to get it to 1000! :brow

Did you get ahold of Cam?

[sage fly guy]

And it seemed like we'd just recently stoked this fire to get it to 1000! :brow

Did you get ahold of Cam?


I try to be entertaining.

I sent them an email.

chris

[thynnus]

Thynnus
better hurry up....you will miss the bus for elementary school.
Why take it to that level?

Me take it to that level? What about the a-hole with the remark about a boyfriend? I guess that's an acceptable level then.

[Punchshot]

It was informative and fun reading the posts to this tread, but now it's abunch of guys acting like two year olds. I think this tread has run past it's time

[Roop]

Let's all go fishing and be happy...


http://pbskids.kids.us/images/sub-square-barney.gif

[rhodyflyguy]

:-% is what you all need

[Cuttbow]

My kids have outgrown Barney, but we still have several videos..Setting aside the boyfriends and the tampons, lets get this back on track. Presume these criteria: Tuna tournament (I'd prefer yellowfin, but let's presume NE Bluefin), IGFA FLY rules apply so no tippets testing over 10kg, 2 anglers per boat and 2 rigs per angler. What are the 4 reels that you have on board, and how do you have them rigged? (add rods too if you want, but I'm most interested in reels and rigs!) :rolleyes:

[thynnus]

Abel or Tibor. The new Tibors have much stronger drags than the older ones for some reason. Either the Abel 4.5 or Pacific with a couple of hundred yards of 30lb dacron topped off with 300 yards of a 50lb gel spun. As far as rigging the reels shooting head system and maybe one with an intermediate line. Keep the rods to 13wt, the old RPLX's that I have break right around the 10kg mark so it is relatively easy to put the max amount of pressure on a fish. I'll assume the new Sage's will break around the same so I'd pick them. With a 14wt you could more easily pop the tippet since the rod is more than capable of applying too much pressure.

[Cuttbow]

I'm surprised that the RPLX breaks at 10kg. When fishing IGFA the weakest link should be the class tippet, then the line and then the rod (or even the bite!). Are you a "high sticker"? I do agree that my reels of choice would be Pacifics. I fish a 16/17 (I also fish a 15, 14 and a 12 that can handle bft) that has a great soft tip (actualy a great front half) to protect tippets, Query: Why put a "couple of hundred yards" of dacron on the reel before the spectra instead of going straight spectra? I put 50 yds of 50lb mono on the reel before attaching the spectra to help the seating, and when I reach mono I know I can lock it down because its likely lost anyway, but is the dacron merely a cost savings??

[jkrogers]

WOW!!

I been gone for awhile, this is deja vu all over again!!! --125-3

jr

[peter mac]

2 Gulfstreams one with 500 grain Airflo BigGame line and 500 yards of XTS 50#Gel spun backing, double bimini in the gel spun to whipped loop in the fly line. The other with a SA Tarpon line same connections and backing, 12 & 13wt rods. have yet to have a problem with fish in CCB & Montauk, never had a SBFT take more than 300 yards of backing. A buddy has fished CCB with me the past 3 years for SBFTs with a Riptide and 12wt. and had no issues.
Peter Mac

[thynnus]

No I don't high stick, but just know that's about where a 13wt would break (its actually a bit more than the 10kg). That's why I like the 13wt, I know if I push the rod to its max i won't break the tippet and will be putting the max amount of pressure on the fish that the tippet can bear. Its easier to judge the max pressure on a rod than it is for the tippet. As far as the backing goes and using dacron it is some what of a cost savings, but the real reason is that past 300 yards or so control has gone over to the fish so why use more than that in spectra? Spliced correctly there will still be 100% strength in the connection if the fish does get past 300 or so yards and you can always chase him if you had to. Then on top of it the fight is most likely going to be straight up and down, so a lot of backing isn't generally needed.

[DaleH]

It’s too bad portions of this thread got off topic … as many could learn quite a bit from an intellectual debate versus that of opinions fueled high with emotions.

The comment I have, from an engineering standpoint, for those that simply tie a weight to the line and lift it off the floor is that performing a simple “static” drag test, e.g., the deadlift, is not an indicator of drag performance in a "dynamic" state. One could lift even 50 pounds off the floor and all you’d be measuring is the startup of inertia of that fly reel’s drag system. Your startup drag could be 50, yet your max drag could only be 20 pounds once the spool is set in motion.

In the real world you want a drag system with a low startup of inertia combined with a high maximum drag number (when in rotation). But even an assessment of those 2 numbers do not give a true indication of just how smooth and/or consistent the drag will perform (or be "felt" by the User) over its life or even the within the fight on just one fish.

Other factors also include the reel RPMs (dependent on amount [diameter] of line on the reel and speed its’ pulled off), heat build up and (hopefully) dissipation, drag surface glazing or potential degradation, number of starts/stops of the spool and possible detrimental effects thereof, reel specifications (size/width) & ergonomics, and whether or not the reel was submerged or exposed to water/spray prior to or during the experience.

Whew ... that said, the industry is still trying hard to find a suitable replacement for cork drag systems.