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Wild Bill
05-21-2006, 08:17 PM
Today's show was entertaining again.

Amanda's brief casting lesson was interesting. I do not use that high elbow method but try to keep my elbow level through the stroke. Her method seemed to work well for her and her client. I guess there are many ways to cast a fly line that work.

backwater
05-22-2006, 08:46 AM
Ok, I'll probably hear some flak over this, but I'm starting to get a little tired of the show. I'm sure I'll still watch but the problem that I see is that the show is too short to cover all the material that they want to cover. I think the show would work much better if you only profiled 2 guides. Then there would be enough time to spend more than a few minutes with each boat. I'm not sure that I've ever seem one boat long enough to actually watch them boat a fish.

The only variable that changes each week are the guests on the boat, and with the limited time you have, proabably about 20min after commercials, you really don't get a chance to watch the fishing for very long. Watching everyone roll out of bed and listening to the fights about other boaters is sort of a waste of time after you've already seen it the previous week. I liked the casting clinic by Amanda, although I'm not quite sure I agree with her advice (but, it seemed to work alright for her). I understand that the focus of the show is not so much the fishing but the day in the life of a guide, but I think I would focus a little more on the interesting parts of the day and wahat happens with the clients.

Just My $0.02

Tom

Wild Bill
05-22-2006, 09:25 AM
Tom-

Each of us would probably do some things differently but these are not professional actors. I think they are doing pretty good overall. Hopefully, they have milked Capt Matt's altercation with a local fisherman enough now and will move on to more interesting stuff.

We just completed the catch and release season in the Susky Flats. Many of the biggest fish are caught in 2 to 4 feet of water. Stealth is critical. There are bass boats running 70 miles per hour through the shallow water at times (Roland Martin Syndrome) which make tempers flair. I do not think Montauk is so different in that regard from any of the other world class striper locations.

Strat
05-22-2006, 09:47 AM
I saw it for the first time this weekend. As with all reality shows it is very contrived.

I did not see any special skills or knowledge by any of the guides which was dissapointing.

The more I watch these shows the more it becomes clear that these are pretty average anglers who happen to make a living taking people fishing.

backwater
05-22-2006, 10:00 AM
I don't think there are "professional actors" on any fishing show and I am well aware that high pressure fishing can bring out the worst in many, although I am not sure how any of that relates to my criticism of the program.

My primary criticism was that if the the show format was changed so that it profiled fewer guides, more of the 1/2 hour time block could be spent with them, hopefully leading to some better shows. When there are only a few minutes available to spend with each guide during their fishing "day", its pretty hard to tell much of a story. If there were half the number of guides, we could spend twice as much time with them, and maybe get to see them in action a little more and maybe get to see a little more of their guests. As it stands now, you only get to see about 2 minutes with each guide on the water, if even that long.

fmw
05-22-2006, 10:05 AM
I think they need more scenes with Brendan's lovely bride Melissa and baby Sarah.

bottleofdog
05-22-2006, 10:14 AM
Here are my thoughts.

Negatives
1) Generally speaking, this was the weakest of the four episodes.
2) Should have cut out the continued drama from the previous week with Matt and the flare up.
3) I really liked in the previous episodes the "food network" aspect where they showed the chef preparing the fish. I guess you need some variety and cant do that each episode so I suppose it makes sense.
4) One above comment might be onto something...trying to follow 5 guides is tough in a half hour show. If they cut it down by one it would make a difference (just dont cut Amanda!)...however, I like the show enough that this would be my suggestion...keep 5 guides and make the show an HOUR!
5) Still have not seen any real big bass caught by our guides...the one killed and handed off for dinner yesterday was nice however.

Positives
1) Still really love the show..as I stated previously...should make it an hour reality show just like Survivor and the rest.
2) Strat, you comment above couldnt be further from the truth. The one about "these guides arent much better fisherman than the rest of us." (Paraphrased) Yes, there are some people making a living guiding (or trying to)
that are not that exceptional of fisherman...but as for these five...(I have met one of them and heard about 2 others through aquaintences) they are the real deal. Come on Strat...Personally I dont have a big enough ego to disallow that someone else out there is better than I am.

Well, let me clarify...these 5 are superb ANGLERS. They all are extremely good at fishing...no doubt and I believe them to be in the top 10% in their business. Would I hire all of them as guides? No. Simply because of personality issues. I have been guided a few times....not many...but I know that I dont want to spend several hundred bucks to be cussed at or screamed at all day because I missed a fish or made a bad cast.
ANYWAY...I think Amanda said something very interesting in this episode. When she was talking about how many guides have similar personalities. She said they are all very competitive, aggressive in one way or another, and when the bite is on...get serious tunnel vision. My best buddy who got me into fly fishing would make a great guide. He is exactly as she described it. When we are fishing he is very aggresive in style and how he fishes...is the first to get to EVERY good hole/location, and when things are on...gets very narrow minded and focused...sometimes to the detriment of those fishing with him.

Just one guys thoughts.

:-% :-%

eastcoast617
05-22-2006, 10:14 AM
backwater I couldn't agree with you more.

PAX
05-22-2006, 10:20 AM
I watched the show for the first time this weekend and liked it. It brought back great memories of fishing Montauk. We happened to be there last year during the Redbone tournament which is the subject of the next show. We actually saw the captains and the ESPN filming crew in action around the point. I only get to hit Montauk once a year and this show is a nice little teaser. I would like to see more fishing and the show be longer though.

AndyF
05-22-2006, 10:22 AM
You guys are tough critics. The bottom line for me is that there is probably nothing on TV that I would like to watch more than a show about fly fishing in Montauk. Just as a bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work, I'd take a bad show about Montauk fly fishing over a good show about almost anything else. That's not to say that I don't think the show is bad. I like it. It isn't intended to be educational and it isn't intended to be like the Bachelor. Take it for what it is and relax.

Strat
05-22-2006, 10:57 AM
BottleOfDog - it's all a matter of personal opinion and to each his own. IMHO it does not take a whole lot of skill to find a pile of birds and position the boat to throw a cast in there. Most guys I fish with in Montauk can do that just fine. The difference is they do not feel any special sense of entitlement to the fish. They also do not feel they have the right to cut people off where they please just because they do it for a living - which is a BS excuse.

bottleofdog
05-22-2006, 12:16 PM
Strat,

Agree with you postion on "entitlement" and right to the water. I do think some guides have that attitude and it is crap.

But as far as anglers...this group is very good.

I believe some people, like myself, can and do LEARN how to fish. Reading, practice, time on water, being taught.

Others come out of the womb natural fishermen...they can simply catch fish. They can almost THINK a fish onto the end of their line. I would guess each of us know folks like this. Thats how I would classify most of these folks.

mctrout
05-22-2006, 10:07 PM
Thanks everyone for their input. This was my first series so on my part I had/have allot to learn. Was all in all a good experience. If this show was somehow marketed as a classic "reality" show, then that was a mistake. Documentary is more like it, with no illusion to the "Best" anything, and Was for my part (and I believe my partner on the project, Jason Puris) something completely different as there are many really great shows and fisherman/hosts, etc.. doing great things on TV. There was no reason to compete with those shows, we had our ideas and tried to get it as close to that as possible. I only say all this because I have many friends here (enemies I can see as well!!!) and respect them enough to share some thoughts.
As far as number of Guides, I agree with Backwater to some degree in hindsight. Funny thing is that when I first wrote it it was 10 guides!!! I also was niave to allot of things as far as how much time we would have per episode. I would love to have them longer, but the marketplace determines that by the natural selection of what is supported financially.
Please note that no fishing shows cover the same location for 6 episodes in a row, thus if we had all Bass/Albie fishing the whole 6 episodes, many people would long stop watching.
We had some days were fantastic fishing, but not enough of the boats had enough interesting stuff going on to make a whole show out of it. Thus, the fishing footage suffers. what can you do?
We did not set-up anything except putting us all in the same house.
Yes, many people say that those that CANT, teach. Well this is certainly not the case here in my opinion, and the bottom line is that ALL of the guides have made many hard decisions to do what we love in a sport that we love.
Would I rather be the client, maybe a millionaire, and fish with guides and do all the catching? not on your life. I love my job, and need to be on the water as much as humanly possible.
No amount of ridicule can top the criticisms and disapointment coming from spouses and family for not putting on a suit and being a grown-up. oh well
There are many factors effecting the final results shown on the show, as is the case with any given fishing day.
If the guides sound entitled, it is only because they have microphones on. In my experience, if everyone had a mic on, everyone would sound like that. Everyone wants to get the fish first, and we are all equals out there.
Thanks for your input and look for more locations soon!!!
Thanks

JGH
05-23-2006, 08:37 AM
The comment these these guides are "pretty average angles" strikes me as way wrong. I've fished with a couple of them, and can tell you that these guys know what they're doing. Besides theire job is to put their clients on fish, not to fish themselves, so the show doesn't really provide a basis for assessing their personal skills, which I suspect are considerable. But more importantly, in what was generally a sub-par fall run in Montauk, they did put the clients into fish. And it's not all run-and-gun for busting fish (though there is some of that). As an example, in episode 2 or 3, when Paul correctly predicted that fish would show in a certain place at the turn of the tide and was there for when it happened, that is skill (skill I wish I had more of).

Wild Bill
05-23-2006, 11:35 AM
Brendan-

Fishermen can be very critical of other fishermen. I think you and the other guides should be very proud of the show. I have enjoyed each episode and look forward to the remaining two.

You are the only Montauk guide I have met and talked to, except for Amanda at the Somerset show. Most of the 16 days I fished Montauk in 2005 I saw you out there guiding clients. I was also there during the filming. From what I have seen you are friendly and considerate of others on the water. I think you are right about the mic however. If I had a mic on when someone runs thorough the fish, cuts me off or gets too close, there would need to be considerable bleeping to make it suitable for general audiences.

I have two friends who are full time guides and they are models for other fishermen in how they handle themselves. The best guides have the skill, knowledge and confidence to put their clients on fish without ruining it for others.

venture
05-23-2006, 05:58 PM
WHY SO CRITICAL! How can anyone expect to have an interesting fishing show centering itself around repetitive casting to schoolies that repetitively blitz near shore.....especially when you are bobbing around within a floatila of Orvis "no it alls" comparing their fish in inches. What probably saves the show is the 'Bleeping" and the land action that breaks up the boring fishing.

Forget the show, I am always amazed how that same little mosquito fleet chases around those same little fish weekend after weekend in the same places at the same times for the same fish.........and telling the same stories year after year. Now you get the chance to see that repetitive fishing on film... it's exactly what you do week after week.....season after season same fish after same fish. Why blame the show. It's the fishing itself that repetitive fishing and boring.

The thing I think saves the show is the guide BS.....I find it amusing and true to the spirit of Montauk. Hey, try and talk to some of the charter boat guys.......and you will get another dose reality.

Perhaps a good mugging in the parking lot at the boat launch would spice it up even more. I think they should drop the fishing parts all together, and lets see some more Montauk reality.

peteD
05-23-2006, 06:31 PM
I agree with Howie. I would even pay to see Wilson beat the snot out of Matt. The fishing is just like every other fishing show. Fishing is something you do, not something you watch. Fighting is something you pay to watch, not something you want to do.

Jim Miller
05-23-2006, 07:44 PM
Fishing is something you do, not something you watch. Fighting is something you pay to watch, not something you want to do.

FUNNY STUFF --125-3 --125-3
But it seems this Spring .... fot me it's been more watching than Fishing! (but the weather is getting better ;) )