Has anyone mixed fuels this season?

[Telliedog]

I still have some non-E10 fuel in my 63 gallon tank from last season. And the manufacturers are recommending that a MTBE tank be completely dry before filling with E-10 fuel. So two questions:

First, how do you get a tank dry without running out of fuel while fishing or sitting in your driveway for hours with the engine running. Fuel gages aren't exactly precise and I dont really like playing Seinfeld games to see how close I can get to empty while using the boat.

Second, does all this really matter or is it a Y2K issue and I should just add E10 fuel and go with it. Has anyone mixed fuels this season and actually encountered phase separation or any engine issues?

I am running a 2001 Yammie 150 HPDI.

Thanks a ton for any input.

[SAGE9]

I was told by my mechanic to use up as much as possible and then just mix in the new gas. Fuel filter plugging has been the main complaint so far when the new and old gas are mixed. This is due to the solvent characteristics of Ethanol which may loosen up deposits that have built up in the tank over the years. I was told to keep at least one extra filter on board in case there is a problem on the water.

Some say that rubber fuel lines older than 10 years should also be replaced due to the solvent characteristics of Ethanol.

Lets hope this is all Y2K-like hype!!! :confused:

[Telliedog]

Has anyone had filter plugging???

So it sounds like I should keep with me the equipment for changing a fuel filter on the water and a spare filter (or two). Seems like if you have a problem with the fuel, you may clog more than one filter.

Never done that before but I guess I need to learn how.

BL

[Soundking]

Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.

I'm out for three days.

[FireFly]

You can always remove the fuel sender and pump out the gas if you want.

I bought a new boat which sat on the dealer lot in Florida for several months. I believe the first bit of gas they put in was MTBE and several months later they added E10.

The boat sat for a month or two before I had the opportunity to fire her up after taking delivery. Ran into all the classic problems with mixing the two.

My under cowl filter indicated there was water in the gas so I decided to pump out the 23 gallons of what was in the 126 gallon tank.

Since the manual pump I used sucked stuff from the bottom of the tank first, I got water then alcohol (yes, it was alcohol and not gas or water) and then gas. After everything was out I changed the racor and made sure to empty my fuel lines and VST tank on the OB. She's bone dry and ready for a full tank of E10.

[Telliedog]

This is a serious pain in the rear. My marina had no answers. It seems like there are enough boats out there on the water that people are just mixing it and going with it.

Firefly - if you pump gas out where do you dispose of it?

[stripah]

Just siphon it out into jerry jugs and then put it in your car or truck. Been doin it for years at the end of every season. Just take a fuel line with a primer bulb insert into the tank and put the other end in your jerry jugs pump and wait. It take awhile but it works. Or buy an intrinsically safe fuel pump and do it much faster.

[SherpaT]

Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.Change the filters.

I'm out for three days.

SK, can you elaborate? Also, to the Mods, does a sticky thread of fuel issues make sense?

I just brought my 2000 Grady/Yammi HPDI up from Deluxbury on Sunday, and the guys down there topped me off with MTBE fuel to prevent any issues on the trip up(they still have some left for such situations.)

[FireFly]

This is a serious pain in the rear. My marina had no answers. It seems like there are enough boats out there on the water that people are just mixing it and going with it.

Firefly - if you pump gas out where do you dispose of it?


My problems were serious but only because the boat sat for so long and I have a feeling water got into the tank accidently (left fill cap off) at the dealer.

For the water I poured it out onto the groud and tried lighting it to make sure it was water and it was. The alcohol is sitting in a container and I'm not sure what to do with it.

I managed to get ~22 gallons of gas out and threw most in my jeep wrangler and it rund fine with it. I used some in my lawn mower but it does not like it one bit. Keeps backfiring on me.

I went with the manual primer ball method because I wanted to see everything coming out of my tank. It took longer but well worth it in my case. I was a tad bit afraid of using an electric pump with gas.

[glassguy]

How about leaving the alcohol in an open container and leting it evaporate off?

[FireFly]

How about leaving the alcohol in an open container and leting it evaporate off?

If it ignites (and it should) I will throw it on my firepit to get it going :)

There is not much of it.

[FireFly]

This is what happened to a Marine Surveyor named "Dunk" in NJ:

This new ethanol(E10) crap we have up here.. I topped off the main 24gal tank in the Mako with 15 gals of E10. At the same time I topped off the 20gal tank I have under the front console seat with 10gals of E10. I put 1 1/2 qt's of Bomb XD50 in the front tank to run on to make sure the OMS pump was pulling oil from the oil tank.
I ran about half of the front tank out then checked the Racor. It was about 1/2 full of water. The boat sat in the dock for 3 days. When I got on it the next time I switched the valves to burn off the main. I had the 01 115 Johnson idling at the dock while I getting ready to go and it quits. Check the Racor and it's topped off with water. So I pull the fuel hose off the engine side of the primer ball and start squeezing the ball into a bucket. A gallon later I'm still pumping water out of the tank. Drain the Racor again, it's full of water. Keep squeezing the ball into the bucket. 2 gallon of water in the bucket before I start getting fuel.. Drain the Racor again. This time I only get maybe a 1/4" of water in the Racor. Crank the engine for 5 minutes to keep some of the water out of the carbs to make room for fuel. The engine was trying to start on the water/fuel mix but would stay running. Hook the fuel line back up squeeze the ball to get some fuel into her and she started to run. The dog and I head out and I got the bow in the air at about 1800rpm to get the water in the tank back to the pickup and cruised to the sandbar. Barnacle swimming and I checked the Racor again. 1/2 full, drain it.. They we ran for about an hour and didn't pickup any more water in the Racor.

Whatever it is with E10 fuel being mixed the old MBTE fuel it sure does create/collect water. Over 2 gals worth

Tomorrow I'm going to check the front tank to see any water has collected in it from sitting.. Then we're going for a serious boat ride to Atlantic City and back just burn off this mix of different fuels.

You guy's in FL should be glad they are not feeding you this E10 crap...

[FireFly]

Just a quick update:

Splashed the boat today after loading it with 100 gallons of E10. She ran absolutely fine!

And now that the mower is running on only E10 it runs fine as well. So no problems with E10, just a problem when you mix E10 and MTBE.

[scalawag]

http://classicparker.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=513&sid=57d49f9d75e3fc53f10867ad052f14dc
this is a link to a thread at Classicparker.com
This is causing lots of trouble up and down the east coast

[SherpaT]

My boat has the Yamaha version of the filter (see attachments if they work.) It appears that the Racor version has a sight glass and bleeder valve. Would it be advisable to switch? I carry a spare Yamaha 10 mic filter. I'm a novice when it comes to marine engines. Is my only option to replace the filter?

I did notice another fuel filter assembly attached to the engine under the cowling with a sight bulb that I believe can be bled. Does serve the same purpose? Any thoughts?

thanks,

Tim

[tsheehy]

Tim,

Both the Racor and the Yamaha brands are 10micron filters, so they are both offering the same level of protection. The Yamaha version seems to be relatively new to the market, so no saying whether the assumed extra filter area in the larger cannister provides more protection over the Racor.

You can purchase the Racor filter with clear base that will most likely screw right into the Yamaha stainless mount that you have now. The best prices I have found for the Racor filters is at marinefilters.com.

The filter under the engine cowling is a 30micron filter, so it doesn't catch as much 'stuff' as the Racor/Yamaha.

Its a little harder to see water collecting in the engine mounted filter, but depending on the model, you may have an orange ring that will float in the presence of water.

-- Tom

[SherpaT]

Tom,
Thanks-- very helpful. One other question, based on your respose: With the Racor unit, in the sight glass at the bottom of the filter: does it strictly collect water, or is it generally full of fuel until enough water is collected, when it is then a layer of water, beneath fuel.

My assumption is that when enough water is collected, you can empty it out of the sight glass? Wouldn't that be a huge advantage over the Yami fiter?

Thanks,

Tim

[tsheehy]

Tim,

Yes, you can drain the fuel/water right from the bottom of the filter in addition to seeing how much water has collected. You simply untwist the knob on the bottom and you can drain it into a suitable container.

-- Tom

[adson]

I was explaining the ethanol problems to my buddy that has a boat and how he needs to keep an eye on his racor filter.
he has a unit that has the blue sight bottom , but it's hard to see as it's in a corner under the deck. the marina just filled his tank which wsa down to almost empty with last years gas. I told him just to be sure drain of some of the bottom and make sure it's gas and not water.

what are you guys doing with the drained stuff ? when you're at the marina or on the water and you find you have to change the filter... can you change the filter without splashing it all over ?

[north coast]

old gas with e10 might, for some of us , may be all hype. I mixed 25 gal. of the old gas with 25 gal. of e10 . (before I knew you weren't supposed to) and after 70 or so hours on the water since,have had no problems.I'm not suggesting anyone do this,but at least for some of us, this just may not be the nightmare it's been proposed to be.

[jbrooks544]

I'm not an expert, but this is what I gather from a lot of research that I have done.

I don't think that the act of mixing mtbe with e10 fuel creates a problem all by itself. I think that if you have water in your tank it can cause a problem. There may also be some issues if your tank is dirty or varnishy.

Water doesn't mix with mtbe fuel, it remains separate. I think that if you have a tank with some mtbe in it and a bunch of water, that adding e10 can cause the phase shift separation. If e10 has more than "x" percent of water (2%?) then the alchohol joins with the water and separates from the gasoline, leaving a mess.

I didn't know about the mixing issue and I have been topping off this summer with e-10 right on top of my mtbe fuel. I haven't had any problems, knock wood, but My tank and fuel system is only 6.5 years old and i leave it full with stabil in winter. So, I think my system was clean and relatively water free, and I have a racor.