Burning off the old in prep for E10 ???

[SamRiley]

I am about to make the switch. Racor and six extra filters arrived yesterday and I am down under a 1/4 tank. Is there a way to drain out the remaining gas or should I just burn it off in the driveway with the muffs on? Any harm to the burn option?

Also, what type of grease is best for the filter when installing and is hand tight alright (says so on the filters) or do I need to use a wrench?

Many thanks,
Sam

[stripah]

Siphon it into jerry jugs and put some in your vehicles tanks before you fill up each time. Thats what I have been doing for years at the end of every season to get rid of "old" gas. Muffs are not intended for long periods of running in the yard the lower unit will heat up too much if you wanna put it into a barrel thats a different story. This comes straight from my Johnson manual.

[SamRiley]

Thanks but I've never siphoned gas before. Water out of a fish tank yes, but not gas. What's the procedure?

[FireFly]

I bought a fuel primer bulb for $4 and connected a 5' piece of hose to one end (goes into can) and on the other end I connected a 2' hose with a 2' piece of copper pipe so I can get it to the bottom corner of the tank.

I think pumped and pumped and pumped away and inspected the stuff coming out. The good stuff went into the jeep and mower, the mixed stuff will be used to start my outdoor fire pit and the water was disposed of.

I did 25 gallons and it was a bit of a pita but I knew I had water in the system and wanted to inspect everything coming out.

I used a 1 gallon clear container to put the gas in. Once it was full I'd inspect and pour it into a 5 gallon container if it was ok.

Used up all the old gas already ;)

[stripah]

Get a fuel line with a primer ball, the fuel line should have no fittings on either end its just a hose with the ball put in line. Insert one end of the line into the gas tank, and the other into your jerry jug. Then pump away my friend. You could also purchase an intrinsicaly(sp) safe ie spark proof electric fuel pump which would be faster. But I get a little scared with electricity and gas vapors so I just put up with the work and pump by hand it really doesnt take that long and I feel safe doing it.

[Go Fish]

I put a 6 gallon can of E10 on board and went fishing. When the motor conked out I added the corn gas and headed in. The key is to stay close enough to the launch to get back on 6 gallons.

[SamRiley]

6 gal reserve with Tuna around... like that's going to do it Kevin :)

Thanks guys. I got it now.

[FireFly]

Just make sure to use a 2' piece of copper on the end you stick into the tank or else the flexible hose will coil up and you'll never get the remaining gas/water out of the bottom.

Forgot to mention that I pulled the fuel sender (the one which provides data to the gas gauge) and inserted the tube there. If you go this route make sure you use a permanent marker to mark a line on the sender and the tank before you pull the sender so you can line them up when you put the sender back in. There are ~5 screws in an unusual pattern which looks easy to figure out but I hear it can be a bear if you don't mark lines on both.

Good luck!

[gf2020]

The key is to stay close enough to the launch to get back on 6 gallons.

6 gallons on your boat! Will that even get you idling away from the dock? ;)

[Nauti Buoy]

I might suggest attaching (taping) a wooden dowel (come in 3' lengths) alongside the hose, instead of material that is electrically conductive. If you are careless in an area that contains your battery, or other electrically "alive" items, the "potential" for a spark would not be good around gas fumes.

[Go Fish]

6 gal reserve with Tuna around... like that's going to do it Kevin

6 gallons on your boat! Will that even get you idling away from the dock?

I'll have you know Old Smokey might be a loud gas and oil guzzeling pig but she still gets 2 mpg at cruise. Six gallons is a whole 12 miles as long as the seas are flat, it is below 65 F and the tide and wind are at our stern.
;)

[FireFly]

Six gallons is a whole 12 miles as long as the seas are flat, it is below 65 F and the tide and wind are at our stern.
;)

And if you are going downhill :)

[DaleH]

Burn off all you can boys ... FWIW I just got in off the water and I just towed my 1st Honda-powered boat in, 25hp running off a 6-gal tank, and the guy put E10 on top of old fuel (which he said he had preserved).

Whatever they do when they mix together, MTBE fuel and E10 fuel don't mix too well. Listen to this, I tow him back to his dock and then I look over his rig. I get it started and it's noisy :confused: , smokin' worse than any 2-stroke ever thought to :eek: and she's bucking like she's overheating (#$119) . Yet I could hold my palm onto the powerhead (so I knew it wasn't hot), plus this motor has overheat alarms and all was OK there. And the smoke was sorta white, so I figured it was steam ... thinking the OB was trying to run off a contaminated water bubble.

So I shook the be-jesus out of the portable tank with the OB "running" ... 30+ seconds later (short 3' gas line ... weird, never seen one like it) and the engine was running quiet and smmmooooooth (like Hondas are famous for) with no smoke/steam. After a few minutes ... same thing ... became noisy, sounded like hell (like she was mis-timed), and it was bucking and smoking/steaming. So I shook the tank again ... it took a few minutes this time, but again, the problems cleared itself and she ran quiet and smooth.

I did this 5 times ... so whatever it is ... those 2 fuels DO NOT play well together. Adding to this, another boat at the docks added E10 onto old fuel and they've clogged up their f/w separators so bad they can't get the engines running ...

Now tonight, I ran my tank "almost dry" (heard her stalling), shut her off and immediately added 10 gallons of E10. Started up and ran - all is fine and no crap in my fuel/water separator. The only thing I can say is I had cleaned my tank out with PRI-G two seasons ago, so maybe that helped minimize any build of crap in this older tank ('92), as the only boats confirmed so far with problems are 1) older boats, 2) those without f/w separators, and 3) both case where E10 was added into MTBE.

[pelkins]

I have a 94 Merc Black Max 200 on my rig. Like go fish, mine smokes a bit and eats a ton of gas and oil, but is reliable like the sun. I figured my old smokey would burn whatever I put in the tank. Now I am gunshy. I carry extra filters, but now sounds like I should run the tank dry.


Do you think it makes difference if you put a lot of E10 in with a small amount of MBTE. Say 60 gals of E10 and 5 gallons of MBTE?

[DaleH]

Do you think it makes difference if you put a lot of E10 in with a small amount of MBTE. Say 60 gals of E10 and 5 gallons of MBTE?While I've no experience to back it up, I almost thinking that might be the smarter way to go ... thereby "diluting" whatever potential bad effect rather than having it hit the f/w separators all at once.

From what I am seeing, the f/w filter can handle and address the water situation, but it is this "rust colored jelly" that forms that is clogging up the f/w cartridges, thereby blocking the fuel flow.

My local OB dealer has resorted to washing out filters in acetone as he feels he can't pass on the cost of 2-3 filters to customers. Even autos are getting nailed with this E10 seitch and many feel it is stations that added E10 onto their MTBE ... and not what use boaters may have done. Whatever causes this "jelly" to form, just thank the Lord your f/w filter catches it and it doesn't get into your motor, as I hear it raises pure havoc if injested into a motor ...

[SamRiley]

Well yesterday was the day. I siphoned as much gas out of the boat as I could transfer to the truck and then burned off the rest with the muffs. Good to know how far below E she will run. New filter/racor is installed and I've got two spare filters and a strap wrench in the tool box. About all I can do I guess. Fingers crossed for the next outing...

Now to gas up with 60 gal of E-10 at $3 a pop --124-3

[CharlieP]

hi sam,

newbie question here...i am about to put a new to me boat on the water that does indeed have a f/w seperator. with all of the talk of racor filters, are they better than other brands? do you have to buy a whole assembly, or are they made to simply screw into the existing filter receptacle?

thanks,

charlie

[SamRiley]

I bought a few filters and the clear bowl from this company. http://www.marinefilters.com/productdetails.php?number1=5&modelnumber=W660RRAC01

I kept the installed mounting but will probably switch that out for a stainless one at some point. The benefit of the clear bowl is that you can see if you are developing water issues w/o removing the filter and just drain it as needed.

It may sound like I know what I am talking about but I am new to this too. That's what we have Dale for :)

[RogerStg]

I should have bought stock in Racor, or its Parent Co before this E-10 stuff hit the fan.

FWIW I am not a racor convert. I've always used the Maxflo 10 micron filter for $8.

[CharlieP]

thanks...

man i feel like i need someone to hold my hand at times. this is my first boat and am just trying to cover my bases. having said that, i have the distinct feeling that i am going to learn a ton of stuff the hard way. this site, as always, has been very helpful.

charlie

[sandy]

Do you think it makes difference if you put a lot of E10 in with a small amount of MBTE. Say 60 gals of E10 and 5 gallons of MBTE?


Adding to what Dale said, the merc guy I talked to said it was worse to add a little bit of corn gas to a lot of mtbe gas. Unfortunately my father was unware of this when he picked up the boat this season and topped off the old with the new. Now our boat is high and dry waiting to get serviced.

[DaleH]

FWIW we pulled this out of ~3 gallons each of MTBE fuel combined with same of E10 fuel. It bogs the f/w separator, as there is a fine silica/sand-like sedimant in there. This stuff smells like heck (like strong E10 fuel, but WICKED pungent) and still doesn't burn! See photo ...

[Telliedog]

I just finished running my almost-full 62 gallon tank down to about 10 gallons of winterized MTBE from last season. I just added 30 gallons of new E10 this past weekend and ran the boat for several hours with no problems at all. Lots of stopping and starting and shutting the engine off as we fished and beached, etc.

It seems like this fuel problem is somewhat random in what it affects. I have a 1996 boat, a 2000 fuel tank, a 2001 150 HPDI and a Racor FW separator/filter.

[anut]

When did e10 become standard at the pumps?

I guess I have been under a rock as this is news to me.

[SherpaT]

I'm running a 200 hpdi, and was down to about 25-30 gallons of MTBE fuel about 10 days ago. We were doing our local 6PM to noon fishing tourney and I just flat ran out of time to transfer fuel. I installed the Racor, carried a few spares, topped off with 60 gal E10, and crossed my fingers. So far, no issues, and the color of the liquid in the Racor bowl has been consistent. It's either Harpoon Summer Ale or E-10 Fuel, but the engine is running well. The boat sat unused last week and we ran it again this weekend. Still crossing my fingers.

Tim

[SamRiley]

Ditto to Tim's post. No trouble and the bowl is clear. Put on about 80 bouncy hours yesterday so the tank should be good and clean.

[SherpaT]

I should have bought stock in Racor, or its Parent Co before this E-10 stuff hit the fan.

I had the same thought. Parker Hanafin (ticker Symbol PH.) Racor is a relatively small part of their business, but it got a bit bigger this year. ;)

[pelkins]

Well, I went ahead and mixed E-10 @ 50 gal on top of @ 5 gal of MTBE... I just checked my fuel/water seperator. NOT GOOD. Stuff looked like what Dale posted above. It looked like unfiltered apple cider. I have a 1994 Merc Balck Max 200 hp carbed engine. It is running OK, but a little ruff at lower RPM and Idle. I am astounded that the engine is burnign this crap. This model Merc is a Beast. I think it would burn about any flamable liquid. My tank is old so i am sure there is a lot of crap that is being cleaned out of the tank.

So now I am going to be changeing filters frequently (every trip maybe) until this stuff is gone.

Don't be like me. Do as the mfg's recommend. get rid of old gas and clean tank if possible.

I feel like my engine could be one step from its demise burning this crap.

[anut]

Tried to siphon my tank dry an lunch, it is on a trailer and could not get a gravity feed going. Very frustrating. Took sender out, took section of old garden hose, cut off both ends and pinched off downhill end, filled with gas and held thumb over end and jammed into tank. Unpinch downhill end. There was about 10" of empty space in the tank so for those 3-4 secs no thumb on end. Would allittle air kill it?Tried this 4 times and could not get the gravity feed to take. the drain end was ~ 18" below bottom of tank. I have used this method to drain the fish boxes (not wanting to run the battery down) no problem. Would gas being less dense than water have anything to do with it?

Tried one of those cheapo NAPA siphons - POS. I have about 40 gals left in the tank (215 gal) and was really hoping to siphon and burn it all off before the switch. Anyone know where I can get a good siphon? Ideas on the gravity feed siphon?

Stopped by Hudsons and they had taken in 7 boats in the last 3 days with fuel problems :eek: They expect allot more as people finally start using their boats this weekend.

[Bob Parsons]

When I knew I was getting low, I carried a 5 gal container of fuel. and then just ran out toh old stuff, pured in the 5 gals and head for the ramp. So far no problems.

[anut]

Bob - that is what I will end up doing. 5 gal keeps it a tight leash though. Oh well.

[FireFly]

I bought a spare primer bulb from the sporting good store and attached a couple of feet of tubing to each end. On one end I attached a piece of PVC (~14") or you can use copper. Stick the rigid end in the bottom of the tank and start pumping by hand.

First fill up an empty 1 gallon container (empty) of windshield wiper fluid so you can inspect it as it comes out. The good stuff goes into a jug to be used in mower or car.

I emptied 25 gallons using this method and I took ~23 gallons of good gas, 1 gallon of alcohol mixed with crud (to be used in my firepit) and 1 gallon of water which was discarded.

It took a while but I got the tank dry. After you get the tank dry pump your primer bulb which is connected to the OB and fuel tank. You'll get another gallon or two depending on how long your fuel lines are. I disconnected gas line under cowl and pumped the lines dry. Then I drained my VST tank and then added a new racor and put fresh E10 in the main tank.

It was a PITA but well worth it. So far no problems.

[anut]

So you did not end up wiht a gravity feed and pumped it. That was what I was afraid of. I can already feel the forearm cramps from pumping ~ 50 gals....

Now I know what I am doing for lunch. Any reason you did not burn of the gas left in your lines to the engines you manually drained? I was thinking I get to that point I hook up the hose and fire them up until they run dry - will that give me problems with residual gas in racors & engine seperators?

[JonG]

I mixed 25 gallons MTBE with 25 gallonns E10 ,I have since put over 100 gallons through the boat so far this year 0 problems, run your boat down as low as you dare in your old tank and fill her up with E10. Run the next tank out quickly and then your all set, guys with crappy old tanks and wally world water seperators are gonna have problems, if your system is fairly clean and recent A1 rated hose and you have a racor your all set don't sweat it. You don't need to pump and drain and all the mess, E10 is not tha big of a deal, just use the first tank of E10 quickly go for a long ride and suck it all up,only differnace is this winter I will store the boat with a dead empty tank, instead full. Good luck PS use STABIL every tank year round!

[anut]

Well I ended up siphoning (rigged up a Lowes portable hand pump to long piece of tubing with pvc - worked great and gravity feed. Well got the tanks dry as I could, on trailer with slight stern/starboard tilt to get gas in corner. Hooked up the hose and burned the remainder off both engines (2 150 mercs). Let it sit and did it again. Tank should be mostly dry, right?

Go to Citgo expecting to put on close to the 215 gal capacity (252 Mako, 1998 , says 215 on mfg label next to sender), but clicks of at 183 gals. What gives? Where did the 23 gals go? I this going to be the crap that glogs me up next time I run low?

Anyone else have missing fuel? something specific to Makos?

[DaleH]

Go to Citgo expecting to put on close to the 215 gals ... but clicks of at 183 gals. What gives? Where did the 23 gals go?
FWIW I have rarely ever seen a fuel tank that matched the angle of the cockpit/deck floor so while you might have had the boat "level" on the trailer, the tank was more probably "bow down" and that would force the fuel delivery shutoff to trigger. Most tanks are plumbed so that the fill is forward and the pick-up aft, with the tank installed a bit "stern down" so that fuel always runs towards the pick-up.

Also fuel expands in volume with higher temperatures (that's why airplanes go by "pounds of fuel") but to be 'missing' that much is odd. I wouldn't lose sleep over it though :brow ... I'd bet $$ it's just the way the boat was positioned on the trailer.

[anut]

"fuel tank that matched the angle of the cockpit/deck floor "

AHHH. Yea, I (wrongly?) assumed that if I had water on the deck pooling in the aft starboard corner so would the gas.

In terms of lb's its about 1,140 for 183 gals - not something you want to trailer far, but does give nice stable ride - thru to 3 footers :)

[FireFly]

Anut,

Sorry for the long delay but I was away. I drained the fuel lines just to make sure I got everything out of the system. The boat is new yet the racor was letting water pass into the fuel filter located on the engine.

[anut]

Firefly,

Thanks for your help. You have h20 getting past your Racor? What causes that? Sounds bad.

I burned mine off vs. drain the lines once tank siphoned, same idea, just louder.

[buzzbait]

For those who haven't done it yet - go get one of those cheap plastic siphons at the local variety store. I think they are made for kerosene - red bulb at the top. Anyway, you can attach hoses to it at each end if you wish, just squeeze the bulb a few times and the siphon will start - if'n the far end is below the tank - duh...I use one of these setups for keeping my swimming pool cover fairly drained in the fall.

My boat thus far has been fine, but all this chatter has me wondering and I'm thinking I'll upgrade my f/w gear, there is no bowl to see what is going on. My boat was stored with a low amount of fuel and this year I dumped in 50 gals (amazing how little you get for $150 now adays) brought me up to about a half tank. Boat ran fine, or relatively fine, its a '92 Merc 175 - never a smooth running machine at low RPM that I know of. I dumped another 20 gals in this weekend, still running fine, but I'm wondering....probably will make the effort to clean out the tank, its alum and the boat is a '92 so a good cleaning siphon won't hurt, but I hate to think of touching those screws on the sending unit...decisions decisions.... :rolleyes: :confused:

[buzzbait]

Has anyone seen this? Given the age of my boat I'm also wondering if I should replace the fuel hoses? Probably won't hurt anyway...

[FireFly]

I can only guess that the membrane lost its ability to separate the water from the gas.

I tested it multiple times and it kept allowing water through to the OB. My under cowl filter kept sending the red ring floating to the top which made me aware of the water problem. If it were not for this then I would have likely filled the tank with E10 and done my maiden voyage and then I would have been in a world of hurt with 125 gallons of crap in my tank, lines and racor.

Once everything was drained I added a new racor element (and see through bowl (mine turned pasty white) and then filled up with 100 gallons of E10. 60 or so gallons burned and not one problem.

Firefly,

Thanks for your help. You have h20 getting past your Racor? What causes that? Sounds bad.

I burned mine off vs. drain the lines once tank siphoned, same idea, just louder.