You Can't fish !!! [Archive] - Reel-Time Forums

brianc

05-17-2000, 02:41 PM

Go back you trespassing . It was loud and clear , but not that clear . I was wading a river fishing when I herd that voice . The owener insisted that I was trespassing I explained to the owner being polite but firm that you only own land only to the high water mark that was it . After a little agument he walked away knowing I was right and went into his house ,and I kept on fishing . Its to bad that some folks cant share life the way it was ment to be . Any word on this High water my land Trespassing Smoke Screen to hord an area for ones self ???

chebeague

05-17-2000, 03:17 PM

The same thing happened to a couple of my friends and I a couple of years ago. We were not disturbing anyone and we were well out past the high water mark. So we told the gentleman the same thing you did. every time we fished there he was quickly out of his house telling us to leave. If it wasn't such a good fishing spot I probrably would have left. We just kept going and eventually he gave up. It's really to bad that some people feel the need to cause a comotion. As far as the law is concerned land ownership only goes as far as the high water mark like you said.

Slamdance

05-17-2000, 03:34 PM

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In Massachusetts and Maine landowners own to the mean low
water mark. However, there is an easment called the "Fishing & Fowling
Law" (or something like that) which states that yoou can walk below the
mean high tide mark for the purposes of fishing or fowling, provided you've
accessed the waterfront legally to begin with. So as long as you have a rod or gun in your hand (most homeowners prefer the former over the latter) you have every right to be there.
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ssully

05-17-2000, 03:55 PM

Shoreline Public Access in the Massachusetts Coastal Zone

To help the public get to and enjoy the coast, MCZM supports a variety of initiatives that promote public access. For example, MCZM has been actively involved in the development and implementation of the Waterways Regulatory Program (Chapter 91 regulations), which licenses activities on public tidelands. Under the Public Trust Doctrine, the public has the right to fish, fowl, and navigate on tidal flats (the area between the high and low tide lines). The Waterways Regulatory Program protects these public rights and encourages water-dependent uses of tideland resources. MCZM is also providing technical assistance to help communities reclaim rights-of-way to the sea, such as public landings and foot paths. In addition, MCZM is assembling a list of attorneys willing to provide legal assistance for right-of-way preservation free of charge, or at reduced rates.

Contact MCZM via e-mail at mczm@state.ma.us

05-17-2000, 04:05 PM

The Massachusetts courts have consistantly ruled that in the 1640s, we gave away title to the land between the mean high tide line and the low tide line to adjacent upland owners. Therefore, this area--known as the "intertidal zone" or "wet sand area"--is generally privately owned in Masachussetts. Private ownership of the wet sand area is subject to certain public rights of "fishing, fowling, and navigation." Court cases have also held that the reserved public rights include the "natural derivitives" of these uses.

Members of the public have the right to surfcast or shellfish on the wet sand area of privately owned beaches

The state's Attorney General takes the position that "fowling" includes other ways that birds can be "used," such
as birdwatching. This issue has not yet been addressed by the courts.

You can also swim in this zone so long as your feet don't touch bottom. And you don't have a right to walk along
the wet sand area solely for the purpose of gaining access for swiming.

Private property owners cannot interfere with your right to walk along the submerged lands that lie seaward of the
low tide line.

The state use to publish a document that addressed the fishing and fowling act. Might be worthwhile to keep a copy in the tacklebox.

THEHAWK

05-17-2000, 04:21 PM

Along these same lines, how are private piers justified? These are clearly below the low water line, built on underwater real estate the so-called owner clearly doesn't own.

ppatricelli

05-17-2000, 06:06 PM

In a similar context I was standing 100 feet off a beach in a VERY navigable river when the landowner came out and tried to evict me. We had a lively discussion as to why the 50 year old deeds showed land where I was standing and which once had, because they were then above the mean high water mark, been private property to that lot, but now weren't. In frustration he finally yelled:
"I'm going beck to get my rifle nd I'm going to SHOOT you!"
I happened to have a VOX walkie talkie on the whole time and my buddy up the way was rolling in the grass laughing. I replied:
"If you did that you'd go to jail because my friend is both hearing and seeing everything that's happening. AND I'M CLEARLY NOT WORTH IT!"

Peter

05-18-2000, 05:37 PM

What happens when a landowner has constructed a rock wall or revetment in front of his beach? At the higher stages of the tide it is too deep for wading in front of the rocks so the only way is to walk along the top of the rocks. Do I have the right to do this? I don't fish in front of his house but I need to go by it to get to one of my favorite spots. Thanks

ppatricelli

05-18-2000, 05:58 PM

I'm not a lawyer and this may be worth just what you're paying for it, but in dealing with a similar problem in another state (laws vary) this is what I know. In most cases access is a totally separate and independent issue from right to be there. I suspect you have a right to be on the facer of his revetment up to the high tide line, but not ON the top of it above the tide line even just to cross. The fact that his revetment creates an access problem at low tide is your problem, not his, UNLESS 1) he didn't have the proper permits and right to build the structure in the tide line in the first place (which is a very real possibility as in most places the laws and jurisdictions in tidewater are extraordinarily complicated and overlapping. One could do it easily 30 years ago and almost never now. or 2) there was some historical pre-existing public access path or right of passage and the revetment blocks that historical path or right.
About #1. A tremendous number of waterfront tideline structures are built by landowners illegally. They take one look at the permit, environmental statement process and throw up their hands and just build it essentially challenging anyone or the state or feds to discover it and challenge them back.

ajtawa

05-18-2000, 06:30 PM

Just Thank God you don't have to deal with the state of Connecticut. You can't park in a public lot at a public beach without getting ticketed after dark.

Last year I offered to pay the ticket so I could attend to the fish hitting bait all over the beach and was refused by an Old Lyme Police officer who threatened to tow my car if I set foot on the beach.

fishinimpossible

05-19-2000, 11:45 AM

There have been quite a few discussions on this topic over the last few years on this board. I'm no lawyer, but what I've gathered is that if you are fishing, fowling or navigating, you can "trespass" below the high tide mark. You may also traverse any obstacles, natural or man made such as docks and jetties that impede your progress. Be polite when you explain this to a landowner. You don't know who's nuts, and you will be fishing sooner rather than arguing. If they insist that you are wrong, have them call the police, and go fishing until they get there.