Effective Andros Flies

[SpexnReds]

I'm fishing with Charlie Neymour on Andros in May. I know it's a ways off, but I feel like goin on a tying binge. Any suggestions?

[Jim Miller]

Crazy Charlies ? ;)

[kelso]

Charlie Neymour is a great guy and if you're also staying at his place, Nottages, you'll really enjoy it. Simple, but nice, and his wife is a fantastic hostess. I'll be there myself the second week of Dec. I fish Andros virtually every year. I've been to a lot of bonefish locations but always come back to Andros. In my opinion the best guides (3rd and 4th generation) and fishery.

My suggestion for flies would be Gotchas, Gotchas, and more Gotchas. It gets redundant but that's really all the guides like to fish with and they work. Tie different sizes and weights. Including some that seem way too big, full, and heavy. If he takes you fishing for big fish, it's in very deep water (still sight fishing) so you need very heavy flies and very strong hooks. Those big fish will straighten out anything that isn't strong. Also for those fish you can't tie the wing long or full enough. But carry a lot of different sizes and wieghts.

Pete

[rlbgfish173]

Like Pete said Gotcha Gotcha and Gotcha however I would have some other standby's like Origional Charlies etc. I used a Christmas Island special (orange) one day at the Joulters and they loved it, Go figure!
I also have had some 811S Tiemco's bend with the bigger fish so I tie some on steel and 800S Tiemco.

Tight Lines.

[SpexnReds]

thanks alot guys-that helps alot-i heard gotchas were THE fly down there, but now i have confirmation. Do any of you happen to know about the tarpon fishing on the west side? i hear it might be worth looking into.

[kelso]

I fished there once and had a great time. Jumped a few Tarpon and landed a 60lb one. They ate whatever we threw at them which was basically smallish decievers. And there's bonefish, shark, jacks, mutton snappers etc as well. Truly a wild and interesting place to fish.

Going there is very weather dependent. Often the wind causes that side to be churned up and dirty. Most trips I've made to Andros we haven't gone West because of that. And Charlie will know if it's worth the trip. More often we made it out to blue water and the navy buoy for large jacks, dolphin, and what not. Suposedly they get schools of tuna out there too, but I haven't experienced that. That Blue water fishing is quite good if the wind lays down enough to make the trip out to the buoy.

[Popes]

I will affirm the Gotcha as the go to fly in Andros. Tie yourself a bunch on #2 hooks with different sized eyes for weights. Also, you may want to dress them a little more heavily than you might otherwise. The tarpon on the West Side hit a #2 gotcha last April (twice). Unfortunately, I was rigged for the bones with a relatively light tippet. Held on for one jump on the first fish, a few more onthe second, but no chance to actually land one on a 9 wt. with that leader. Still awesome to see.


Have a blast. Also, do not ignore the barracuda. Lots of fun.

[SpexnReds]

Thanks a whole lot, but one more thing.....I've tied a few large and heavily dressed gotchas, and I came up with a new heavy, deep sinking #2 bonefish fly that i call "big nasty" (cross between a gotcha, kaufman's marabou shrimp, and a peterson's spawning shrimp) and it occurred to me that throwing these big flies for big fish might require a bit more than an 8 wt. I don't have a 9 wt, but I'm always open to buying more gear.....would it be wise to get one for this trip?

[TomK]

Spex:

I am going down for my first trip to Andros in November. While that doesn't qualify me to give advice based on experience, I have researched this to death (so says my non-fishing spouse :rolleyes: ) and can offer a few thoughts.

Bring more tackle than "you need". I have spoken to more than a couple of people who have gone with a single rod in a particularly weight only to have the rod break early in a trip due to mishandling, bad luck or (rarely) big fish. While they were able to borrow equipment from someone to finish the trip, I have never been one to depend on the generosity of others.

The advice I have gotten from everyone is to have an 8 and 9wt on the boat and rigged. Also, to the extent it is financially and otherwise feasible, to have a backup rod for each of those in case of mishap. Rig the 8 for bones and the 9 for big bones or permit, usually with a larger/heavier gotcha or clouser or a crab pattern.

There is also a school of thought to have a spinning rod with you for cuda, jacks, etc. or in the case the wind is howling.

Here is my current packing list:

-8wt Loomis GLX with Waterworks reel & 8wt Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper
-Back up is an older Loomis IMX

-9wt Orvis PM10 with new design Lamson Litespeed 3.5 (goes on sale in mid-October) which will also be spooled with Wulff Bermuda taper
-Back up is a Biscayne Rods Billy Baroo

Spare spools
2nd Waterworks spool will carry an 9wt Airflo multi-tip to cover anything other than floating line (and as backup for the Wulff if severed)
2nd Lamson spool will carry a 9wt SA Striper Taper Floater.

Extra lines
One each 8wt Bermuda Taper and 9wt Striper Taper.

Spinning gear are all Temple Fork 3-pc rods (Lefty's latest)
One medium light action with 10# braid on TICA reel
Two heavy action with Shimano reels, one spooled with 14# mono and one 20# braid

Clearly, not all of these can be on the boat at the same time but I like to be prepared for any eventuality (the Boy Scout in me I guess).

Yeah, I have not been there before but I have spoken to many and read a ton. My trip is sponspored by Al Caucci who has fished the Bahamas for a quarter century so he knows a thing or two. A local guide here in Connecticut has taken his clients to Andros over 20 times and was very helpful (he prefers over-dressed tan bunny flies in 4 & 2).

I don't tie flies and won't begin to discuss those as you know more than I do. That said, I concur with the advice of others and have focused the 200 flies I am bringing on Gotchas, Merkin crabs, Clousers and Hootchie Cauccis (Al's pattern). Add in some really bushy bunny patterns tied by some guys I know locally and that's it. I will also have a box of generis SW patterns for playing with anything that will tug that is not a bonefish.

BTW, if you are interested in sharing a couple of your Big Nasties with me, I promise to give you a real-world report from my trip in November. ;)

Tom

[JGH]

I fished with Charlie last March and am planning to go with him again in April. You will definitely have fun fishing with him. Be prepared for wind. Serious wind. Whitecaps-on-the-flats wind. But you will see fish. Lot's of 'em.

As for flies, as has been said, bring big, heavy Gotchas. I brought four boxes of flies with me in March, and used almost exclusively Gotchas. (Charlie: "Why you bring dat junk down here, mon?") Also, some heavy clousers, tan/white.

Good luck.

[joshr]

Yep, everything you;re hearing is right...gotchas. More like Gotchas clousers than standard gotchas too, especially if you want to hunt bigger fish in the deeper water. Charlie is great fun to fish with and a truly outstanding guide.

What Kelso says about the west side and weather is true, but you stand a decent chance of goo dconditions there if you're going in May. The wind needs to blow from the east for a few days for the west side to be clear...that happens much more in the summer than winter.

Definitely bring 9# with you...easier for long casts with heavy flies and minimal false casting. And some of those North/Middle Bight bones are freakin huge!

--JHR

[josko]

Tomk,

fer cryin' out loud dude, you're going fishing, not exporting a fly shop. Take along a 7, 8 or 9 wt (whatever you got), a reel, a floating fly line, some extra tippet and a handful of gotcha flies.

Josko

[TomK]

This is my first trip to the Bahamas and my first fly fishing to the tropics/flats. I have caught a few bones & cuda while spinning with bait or tubes but nothing like the experiences of most of the denizens of this forum.

That said, I am no purist. While the group I am going with may think me a heretic, I am going for the big tug, and hopefully frequent one. That means I will use a fly when I can but have no problems casting a spin rod.

I have fished reasonable well with a fly rod on the Delaware and out West, but always with 4-6 wts. Other than lawn casting, I have not thrown 8-9wts to any extent. Thus, my tackle list is based on my personal worst case Bahamas scenario, five days of non-stop 25 mph wind. Given I have not cast under those conditions, the spinning gear is Plan B in case I am not being able to effectively throw a fly. I also happen to thing tossing a tube lure with a spinning rod is far more effective than a Cuda Fly or Cudalicious.

As for my backups on the fly rods/reels, it is based on experience. My limited fishing travels have taken me to a flyout lodge in Alaska, private lodge in Argentina, the major rivers of Montana/Wyoming and classic streams in Ireland and the UK. During my ventures I have had two reels "blow up" on the same trip (12#+ Alaskan rainbow and ocean fresh silver salmon), have had one rod fail after getting hit one time too many with a tungsten head Spruce Fly in Argentina and watch another angler snap a rod fighting a tree in Ireland. So my backups are based on experiencing equipment failure first hand or witnessing it.

Unlike many of you who have the good fortune to frequent the Bahamas on a regular basis, this is my first trip and one that I am unlikely to repeat for at least another five years. Finances and scheduling aside, I don't want to have to worry about the condition of the "house" gear at the AIBC in case something fails. Given I am spending several grand on this trip, filling half a duffle bag with spare gear and an extra rod tube or two does not seem to be going over the edge.

As a non-tier, using your approach, I could suggest that all tiers who bring a sachel full of tying gear are over the top. Yet I can appreciate the need for a tier to exactly "match the hatch" of whatever Gotcha variant the first appear to be on that day.

So, thanks for the "chill out" suggestion but I would prefer to be safe (and over packed) than sorry.

Tom

[josko]

Tom,

I didn't mean to bust your chops. I'm down on Andros right now, just back from dinner at Rupert's. IMHO, there are waay too many sports down here who (over)emphasize gear over basic skills. I see guys weekly who show up with a thick bundle of rods, a case of Abel reels and just end up floundering around with all that equipment.
My advice wouold be to pare down your gear, but spend the time you would have spent assembling and ogling it doing some casting exercises instead. 7, 8, 9 wt, whatever, learn to cast it in near-impossible geometries and just get very familiar with it. And then think about your fish-spotting skills. An d figure out how you're gonna enjoy yourself.
If you got two rods, say a 7 and 9 wt, bring 'em both but the rest will just drag you down, mon.
And remember, you're in a lodge with a dozen other bonefishers, so rounding up a piece of gear in the remote chance you bust it up is easy. Most lodges have plenty of stuff to use, too.

[TomK]

Aside from being overzealous, consider my gear overage as a psychological overcompensation for concerns about my ability to cast under the conditions that are likely. Standing on the lawn can only get me so prepared for a quick cast or dropping a clouser on a dinner plate at 50 feet. I've worked on it. I've also worked on casting on the back cast and minimizing my false casting to a single if I can. I've worked with the wind, against it and letting it blow in from both sides (thankfully I snipped the hook point off the practice clouser).

So I am not insensitve to the need of basic skills and I appreciate the advice. Most of the spare gear should never leave my room. I plan to only bring three rods on the skiff on any given day: 8wt, 9wt and medium spinner. If there is one thing I have learned, you don't catch fish playing with gear.

Actually Josko, maybe you can provide some advice. My first day at the AIBC will be one-on-one with a guide (the next four days I am sharing a boat). My though is that first day will be my day to make as many mistakes that I can learn from. What would you recommend I do on that first day? My thought was to find some easy (read small) fish and just get accustomed to the whole thing. Blow as many shots as I need to on little guys, figure out hook set, line management, fighting, etc. Attempt to finish the day with my ego tattered but essentially intact. Would you suggest something else?

Thanks.

Tom

[josko]

Your first morning, try to find a mud to get practice hooking and playing maybe a half-dozen schoolies, and then have the guide work on your fish spotting skills. On following days, instead of just sitting in the skiff while your partner casts, see if yoiu can get dropped off on a wading flat. This calls for a bit more self-confidence and spotting skills, but I've seen it work with folks who can see fish and cast 50' by themselves.
It could be frustrating if your basic skills are not up to the challenge.
White bight and Outer banks are two prime wading flats within easy reach of AIBC where you will have a blast spotting fish by yourself.

[SpexnReds]

Tom:
The first time I went bonefishing was frustrating. Expect the first day to be so, but do not get discouraged. I grew up casting to Redfish in South Texas, and let me say, bonefishing is easier to an extent. You don't have to throw the fly right in front of them for them to eat, unlike redfish. If you get it with in 5-7 feet, they'll take it. The main problem I encountered was seeing. If the bottom of the flat is white, you can see fairly easily if you look for the fish's shadow (that's the great thing about the bahamas, nice white bottoms and lots of good sun). Coral and turtlegrass on the other hand, require very trained eyes. Do not worry about wind, you will learn to love it. I can't stand fishing on windless days because the bonefish are ultra spooky and 60-90 ft casts might be necessary. Whatever you do, do not get discouraged, you will catch fish. You know how to cast, and if you can hit a target at 30 ft, you will catch more bonefish than you will want to. But it will be frustrating when you start since this is the first flats fishing you will have done, just do not give up, it is a blast. Just remember you are on vacation and are there to enjoy yourself. If you keep that state of mind, catching fish will be easy. One more thing, it is very, very, very important that your guide knows your skill level/experience. I'm sure the guides you are going to have will ask you that first and ask you to cast. If they forget, reminding them should be the first thing you do. Also, guides often have different distance perception than the angler. Make sure your 40 ft and his 40 ft are about the same, and that your 10 o clock (or any number for that matter) and his 10 o clock are the same. This can cause difficulties if you guys aren't on the same ship. Good Luck.

[Jim Royston]

Tom, don't ask to get dropped of to fish by yourself. You're paying for a guide, not a taxi. The routine should be, from a poled skiff, half hour on deck, or a fish caught and then the other guy gets up. It's almost universal protocol. You will learn more in a day with a good guide than in a week of beating about the flats by yourself. Much more! When you get out of the boat with the guide and your companion fisherman to wade, your guide should share the amount of time he spends with each of you. They know what they're doing so just do what they say.

[Elvis]

I'd echo the thoughts on seeing the fish as being the challenge... If you could "design it" to learn a lot I'd see if you can try to find:

a) Regular old cruising fish (whether school or ones/twos)
b) Mudding fish
c) Tailing fish

Seeing each type is different. If you are in a few feet of water, you need to look for different things at different depths etc. to find fish under each circumstance (and of course they don't tail in 3 ft of water)... I haven't fished the Bahamas yet (I'm in Exuma in two weeks and awfully fired up about it) but have fished the keys a number of times... If you can cast, then seeing the fish will be the hard part. Once you work that out you'll be good to go... That's also where the guide will be your new best friend... He'll see nearly everything... I've been bonefishing a bunch and still get the feeling that, if I were on my own, I'd see the fish right after they came up and nibbled on my toes and whacked me with their tail to taunt me...

Have a great time. The whole thing is a blast.

[TomK]

Elvis, Jim, Josk & Mark - thanks.

I seem to have hijacked this thread but REALLY appreciate the advice. Being prepared (both via hardware and psychologically) is only part of the battle. Only by doing does one learn and improve.

Frankly, I am going for the experience, to relax and add to the "experience bank". I dabble in photography and will be bringing one of my SLRs and a dozen rolls of film (Josko, I am also bringing my Pentax WR as a back up ;) ). There are enough photos by the Becks and others that I want to "replicate" so I will be very happy to get some really good grab shots.

Thanks again guys. Maybe I will post a report/photos when I get back. If SpexnReds can stand it, I might even critque on the success of his Nasty pattern.

Best,

Tom

[Swalt]

Tom,
I do much the same as you are planning to do when packing. I will take 7,8,9 and 10 outfits with a back up 8 outfit with extra spools for some and an extra line for each. Most of my fishing is done in the southern islands, in the fall, at small lodges where I have been by myself or with one other fisherman so the borrow a outfit is usually not an option. Most of it is also wading so its not a problem to carry 4 rods onto the boat. I rig 2 for bonefish one for permit and one for baracuda and may have a spinning rod also rigged for baracuda.
I agree with Josko on wading a flat on your own. I spend time fishing with guides and fishing on my own. I think the time on your own is invaluable in learning to find and spot fish, and read a flat. I don't think you learn that as easily when fishing with a guide. You learn to look for and see fish at 11 oclock and 60 feet but you don't see them before that.

[jimmy]

You will have a great time! You may want to pick up a copy of Chico Fernandez's bonefish book. It has a pretty cool section on bonefish behavior and physiology. Good luck!

[TomK]

Got Chico's as well as Kaufman's smaller book. Given what I am spending on this trip, I can't justify the cost of Kaufman's larger book unfortunately. :-(

Thanks.

[fmw]

Got Chico's as well as Kaufman's smaller book. Given what I am spending on this trip, I can't justify the cost of Kaufman's larger book unfortunately. :-(

Thanks.

Why not pick up the book of someone who is actually an active participant on this website: Dick Brown (aka Marshrunner)'s Fly Fishing for Bonefish. A great book. and if you're worried about costs or packing it for travel, it actually comes in soft cover.

[TomK]

fmw - I bought Brown's book several years ago at a show and it should be somewhere in my house. However, we moved a while back and I am having trouble tracking it down. Likely in one of the half dozen boxes sitting in the attic waiting for me to have the "spare time" to unpack.

Either that or I loaned it to someone who did not return it.

[Marshrunner]

SpexnReds,

Taking Gotchas, Eric Peterson’s Spawning Shrimp, and tan/white Clousers should serve you well. Simrams are also good for deeper water along with the Clousers … and take some crab patterns as well. On the 9wt consideration, you may want to try a 10wt instead as it will serve both as a good permit rod and for bigger bones. I usually carry a 10wt plus or two 8wts, setting the 10 up with a crab pattern on most northern Bahamas islands.

TomK,
For insurance, I usually carry down a spare of everything I plan to fish, but Josko’s point is spot on—don’t let your gear overrun you. Far better to practice casting in wind before you get there—I used to go to a soccer field on the windiest days and practice for 30 minutes a day before heading south. As for the spinnig rod, your call, but when I started chasing bones back in the 70s I didn’t start catching them on flies until I left the spinning rod home—it was just too much of a crutch to have it with me.

For both of you, seeing fish is probably the biggest early challenge. Read all the books. Study the photos and the passages that show/describe the many different ways bones look in different colored and textured habitats and the ways to detect them in each. Learn to look for pattern-breakers. And when you get there, tell your guide you are as interested in learning to see the fish as catch them—ask him to tell you what he’s seeing as he poles. See if you can spot one fish a day before he does.

Enjoy the trip.


Dick

[fmw]

SpexnReds,

Taking Gotchas, Eric Peterson’s Spawning Shrimp,

These are mostly what I used on 2 trips to south andros. . . alot of gotchas with the rubber legs.

[TomK]

click on attachments

[Swalt]

I used some of his flies last November in Inagua. They work. The guy I was fishing with fished the silly leg all week with good results.

[jimmy]

Why not pick up the book of someone who is actually an active participant on this website: Dick Brown (aka Marshrunner)'s Fly Fishing for Bonefish. A great book. and if you're worried about costs or packing it for travel, it actually comes in soft cover.

Great point fmw. Brown's books on Bonefish are great. I have been tying out of his bonefish fly patterns book for years. definitely some great Andros flies in there!

[TomK]

Dick's book was not in my attic so I just ordered it from Amazon. While doing so, I realized the book I had but can't find was actually the older version.

Thanks to all for the valuable advice and suggestions.

[Marshrunner]

Thanks to several of you for the kind comments on the two bf books. As I read through the string though, I realized there may be a little confusion as to which book is which.

“Fly Fishing for Bonefish” is a paperback reissue of the original “how to” book on bf angling technique and strategy; “Bonefish Fly Patterns” is a hardcover bf pattern/tying book with about 150 bf fly patterns (mine and many others) in it. Just want to be sure if anyone goes looking, they find what they want.

Good luck to all you newcomers … I envy your first exposure to the flats. I’ve certainly never forgotten mine. And, SpecxnReds, say hello to Charlie for me.

Dick Brown

[SpexnReds]

will do, wont be til may though haha

[TomK]

Brian (Spex): I will send you some pics in five weeks. Hopefully, I can give you a field report on your Nasty fly as well....

[SpexnReds]

awesome-the new materials are coming in the this week, you'll have them by your trip, no problem, hope they work

[joshr]

TomK--

You will want to have gotchas and gotcha clousers that are way bigger and bushier than the ones in the pic you sent. When I fished with Charlie last December, we were throwing flies that were really more like striper flies than bonefish flies a lot of the time. Think 2+ inches tan over white clousers and big bushy simrams and the like. Sure, you'll want to have some of the smaller, standard gotchas (especially for your first day when you plan to target smaller fish to get the kinks out), but definitely bring some big stuff.

Now all that said, my experience was that those Bight bones would eat pretty much anything you put in front of them, so long as you put it in front of them! The main benefit of the big flies for the big bones was the weight for getting down in some of the deeper water we were fishing when hunting bigguns.

--JHR

[TomK]

JHR - That was a portion of what I will have with me. Same flies in size 2, all in combos with mono, bead chain and brass/lead eyes. Clousers as you describe in 2s and 4s. Some real bushy tan rabbit fur flies from a friend. Some Nasties tied by Reel-timer SpexnReds. Plus Merkins, Puffs, Hoochie Cauccis and more. Yeah, way too many flies.

As for putting those flies "in front" of the fish, I am working on that. ;-)

Thanks.

Tom

BTW, I sent this post from my Treo handheld while riding the train home. Pretty cool!