The Ugly Side of Montauk

[Perch]

Tue. Nov. 7. Cloudy, about 42 degrees. Day started badly. Backed up into a new gravel deposit at ramp and bent prop. Engine vibrated. Zip at Sluice, ruins, Albie Alley, Eastern Plains Point and Tobacco Lot. To Montauk Point. On way out I got ahead of an inboard, maybe a commercial bluefish/striper fisherman. Stayed well ahead of the guy, then stopped by a big cloud of birds. After, say, three minutes the guy comes up on me, pitching fit, swearing and screaming, and circling my boat. His two deck hands are leaping around like Swift’s yahoos. The captain shrieks that he had been on the same course all along (as if I was supposed to have plotted his course to Block Island). Montauk is a beautiful place with some fine people, esp. the fly fishing guides, many of whom I count as close friends. But there is also a very nasty, ugly element. I couldn’t believe this latest confrontation. This moron was irate because he had to alter course to avoid me. I am getting too old to take this kind of ****. So I told him that I found it truly tragic that he had to actually use his steering wheel to avoid hitting another vessel and asked him if that fate had ever befallen him in the past. When he continued screaming and dancing I gave him the finger and told him to **** himself. At which point he picked something up and threw it at me. But he had a garbage arm as well as a garbage mouth. The day got better. I encountered a guide friend--a real gentleman and a truly superb angler. We looked for tuna together. He saw one explosion. Later thousands of blues and a few stripers appeared off the point under a massive cloud of birds. None of the stripers were very big. It was nice to see gannets. They are such impressive birds--purposeful and intimidating, as if they own the sky and sea. I love to see them hitting the water like a flight of arrows. They are actually a type of boobie (my second favorite kind). Looking forward to the herring run.

[MarkZ]

Sounds like a good typical day in M :) . Get a SS prop.

[fmw]

Later thousands of blues and a few stripers appeared off the point under a massive cloud of birds. None of the stripers were very big. It was nice to see gannets. They are such impressive birds--purposeful and intimidating, as if they own the sky and sea. I love to see them hitting the water like a flight of arrows. They are actually a type of boobie (my second favorite kind). Looking forward to the herring run.

Sounds similar to the weekend (including at least one a-hole being present). Big blues and small stripes. Hopefully, after this week's storm, the blues will begin to fade away and we will be left with nice stripers.

I only saw maybe 1 or 2 gannets hit the water from a far distance. Are they around in quantities now? If so, maybe that means the bait is starting to switch over to something other than bay anchovies.

[danny]

your post should be called 'the ugly side of being on the water'. people have no etiquette, no idea, no clue, and tons of attitude. i always find it's way nicer to fish away from other boats... glad you saw some gannets, they're cool.

[Perch]

Mark and others: Can you give me some input on SS props? I am conflicted. On the one hand it saved my lower unit when I hit Dead Man’s Rock of the point two years ago. I limped into the harbor on one blade and bought another SS prop. But yesterday I was barely underway. Just nudged the gravel, and a bad bend. Had to put the spare on today.
P.S.
I agree about fishing away from other boats and try to do it whenever I can. This year the scene at Montauk was 100 percent better than last year. Gas prices? Unfortunately there are days when the rips off the point is the only game in town. Whenever I find fish elsewhere--esp. at the Sluice or Gardiner’s--I stay up there. That’s the one huge advantage of coming over from CT.
PPS. Not "quantities" of gannets. But loads more than last week, and big white adults (which arrive later). I rescued one a while back that was tangled in a fish net, but he could still use his beak. It was like trying to disarm a drunk brandishing a switchblade.

[venture]

Take a look at this from the Other Guy's perspective. He's sick and tired of the pain and the ass sporties that he has to deal with swarming around him all summer and fall making it more difficult for him to run his boat easily. Instead he's got guys speeding past him while he works his gear paying no attention to his hard efforts on the water. You gotta respect those who dedicate themselves to such a life. They get NO respect from sporties, except when they ask him questions like......"where did you get your fish". Otherwise, the sporties just continue to cut him off, throw big wakes in his face, and as I said, just make his hard work even harder.

Then you come along.....at the end of the season after all the BS he's put up with all summer and fall, and with all this water for both of you, you come up on him from the rear, pass him and throw your wake only to stop in his way making him steer. He's got a right to be ****ed. In your post, you take no responsibilty for anything, and just call him an a-hole. What about you?

I'm not saying that was right to circle your boat, but he wanted to give you a little of what you gave him. I'm not saying that he should have lost his temper but you perhaps looked at him as if he was the culprit without at all respecting his space.

Yes, we with "inboards" or diesels coming in from a long day on auto pilot don't want people passing us to just stop in our way. After you understand this and take responsibility to be curtious, you may stay out of trouble.

[danny]

i think venture is right... i am on the water almost every day. from my own experience, that's why i think it's better to steer clear of people... there is a ton of water out there, a ton of fish. more than enough room to not get close to others. i can't believe how close people get to each other (and how often people run right up on me). i was in montauk the second week of october, it was silly. i have fished there the past 3 years, in october... i always have tried to fish away from the pack, still caught lots of fish, and had a better time being a little bit out of the fray.

[Perch]

Venture: The “Other Guy” had no gear out. My wake was nowhere near him. From his perspective I suppose I “sped” by him. He was making about 15 knots. I “gave” him nothing. The reason I “take no responsibility” is because I did nothing that would in any way offend a rational person. Here’s his “perspective” (which seems very much your own): His life sucks, a fact much his own doing. He makes very little money, another fact much his own doing. He is angry at the world, especially “sporties,” which he wrongly imagines don’t work, are filthy rich, are out there to play with food, and who go back home and force NOAA to limit his kill. I love his (and your) notion that “sporties” are somehow clairvoyant and can divine what “his way” is when they are half a mile from it. What is his “space”? Apparently, he believes it to be the North Atlantic Ocean. If you folks insist on keeping your boats on “auto pilot,” I would strongly urge you to avoid Montauk Point when the fall blitz is on. And if you insist on blasting through the “sportie” fleet, I suggest you use an important piece of equipment. It’s called a steering wheel.

[phillyflyguy]

so you guys are gonna pull over to get out of the land lubbers way on the highway right?

[Northfork]

Gotta stick up for Perch here. Sounds like, from his description, that he gave the commercial guy a wide berth and was not near him until the guy approached him minutes after Perch had already stopped. Don't know why people would automatically assume he (Perch) was in the wrong and crowding the other guy.

[mikemontauk]

Were you in the Green Contender? I was out early. There was not much of a crowd. I was commenting to my partner how it is nice that the crowds settled down. Sounds like a lot of pent up frustration.
I did watch a Guide this summer, come screaming up on a school of blues, with clients locked and loaded. We were off of Gin Beach, and the guide ran up, and cut the engine. What they seemed oblivious too was the 36' Lobster Boat heading for the barn. The Lobster Boat had to make an evasive manuever to avoid an accident.
Fishing was great yesterday. Drifting tight was difficult given the tide and onshore winds.
Beware of the remains of the Scallop Boat that is still a hazard on a low tide.

[Perch]

Yes Mike, that was me. Re. the lobster boat incident, considering how crowded Montauk is, it’s surprising this doesn’t happen more. People, inc. me, do get pretty intense about fish. And many of us, inc. me, screw up from time to time. (As I mentioned above, yesterday was not one of those times.) But last year I cut off a guide who had the right of way when a bunch of stripers come up at Turtle Cove because I was looking at the fish when I should have been looking at the traffic. The guide, like all the ones I know out there, was a perfect gentleman. I apologized to him that night by email, and he couldn’t have been more gracious about it. I see the remains of the scallop boat. I heard the capt. fell asleep after he switched to auto pilot. What a horrible way to wake up! (Another good reason to use steering wheels around Montauk Point.)

[mikemontauk]

Yeah I guess his autopilot was off by a few yards. Good luck out there, surf is big today.

[brushfly]

Comms, Sporties, Guides, Recs, 6 Pack Captains, Party Boat Captains, Rowing Teams, Skulls, Joe "Sea Ray"s, etc, etc, etc. In each group you get the good the bad and the ugly. Bound to happen plying the waters in a state where over 18,000,000 people call home.

Don't point fingers and any one group. At one time or another every one of those has ****ed me off in a major way. I'm sure I may have done the same inadvertantly. The only folk who I haven't had incident with are kayakers and sailors, and let me tell you, the stuff I see Sailboat captains putting up with while there underway is the worst imaginable. I'd safely say 85% of boaters regardless of their type, don't obey sailors having right of way while underway. Forget rules of the road, today it's autopilot, gps, Radar,CD, Blackberry's, Cell Phones. Years ago it was two waypoints and a good compass.

[venture]

It's easier for you to justify yourself as an innocent. Your ability to project how other's view their own lives is also one of your great talents, and perhaps helps you along your own path. Thanks also for sharing that information with me as well, because I take it as a great challenge to find purpose in life on this earth.

But just one thing; you may want to consider that this guy looked at you with no envy. Perhaps he did not view you as "the rich One or the entitled One" as you so presume. Perhaps he looked at you as he looks at all sporties buzzing around like maniacs all year. Its much easier for you to think he envies you....for your time off, or your money (if you have any), and privilage....but that just may be your own projection my friend. He looks at you like just another oblivious jerk constantly paying him no mind and making his job that much harder. That's why he showed zero respect for you and harrassed you at his final breaking point.....post season, with all that water.

I've read many posts here that concern themselves with sporites running over fish, fighting for tight possitioning, guides screwing up things, all within the little circle of whats called "the mosquito fleet". You guys can't even get it together among yourselves. Ever think about how the "other" guys view you? Ever think about how the commercial guys view you? Their perspective is that you guys are amatures, driven by some passion to torture the same fish over and over again. They don't envy you as rich and entitled.

And always there are two sides to every coin. Too bad the guy who went baserk on the water could not contribute to this thread, because I think he would add a whole new perspective to the story and a whole new perspective on the water. Ultimately there is nothing to win or loose here but perhaps something to be learned. Something much bigger than fishing.......something that can add Purpose to life. External Consideration is lacking in all walks of society. It is fueled by our need to be right. And having that need is what we all need to work on. It's quite a tough road, but if all did it, perhaps the world would be a much better place.

[LIFlyguy]

The things people do for a fish is unbeleiveable. I've been going to Montauk since I was a kid and it has always been crazy towards this time of year. It seems to get more intense each year. I prefer to stay away from the pack. Combat fishing isnt for me. You need to be able to adjust your fishing and your attitude, to fish there. You know the saying "Conform to survive".
Theres always going to be confrontation when you cram too many people in one area. I think that if you expect it, then you increase your chances of avoiding it.

[MarkZ]

It's easier for you to justify yourself as an innocent. Your ability to project how other's view their own lives is also one of your great talents, and perhaps helps you along your own path. Thanks also for sharing that information with me as well, because I take it as a great challenge to find purpose in life on this earth.

But just one thing; you may want to consider that this guy looked at you with no envy. Perhaps he did not view you as "the rich One or the entitled One" as you so presume. Perhaps he looked at you as he looks at all sporties buzzing around like maniacs all year. Its much easier for you to think he envies you....for your time off, or your money (if you have any), and privilage....but that just may be your own projection my friend. He looks at you like just another oblivious jerk constantly paying him no mind and making his job that much harder. That's why he showed zero respect for you and harrassed you at his final breaking point.....post season, with all that water.

I've read many posts here that concern themselves with sporites running over fish, fighting for tight possitioning, guides screwing up things, all within the little circle of whats called "the mosquito fleet". You guys can't even get it together among yourselves. Ever think about how the "other" guys view you? Ever think about how the commercial guys view you? Their perspective is that you guys are amatures, driven by some passion to torture the same fish over and over again. They don't envy you as rich and entitled.

And always there are two sides to every coin. Too bad the guy who went baserk on the water could not contribute to this thread, because I think he would add a whole new perspective to the story and a whole new perspective on the water. Ultimately there is nothing to win or loose here but perhaps something to be learned. Something much bigger than fishing.......something that can add Purpose to life. External Consideration is lacking in all walks of society. It is fueled by our need to be right. And having that need is what we all need to work on. It's quite a tough road, but if all did it, perhaps the world would be a much better place.

Capt. Curmudgeonly, I didn't detect any condescention in Perch's post, just a stab at what the comm may be feeling...his opinion which he's entitled to. He buffered the statement about the guy viewing sporties as "flithy rich" with the words "wrongly imagined."
External consideration will always be lacking in our society to some degree. Both sides need to be reasonable without being overly accusatory or hypersensitive...communication is the key. I don't think you are giving Perch a fair shake.

[venture]

Did I mention ANYTHING about anyone being condesending? I don't think so. Did I mention ANYTHING about anyone not "rightfully" or "entitled" to voicing their opinion. I don't think so. If he wants to call someone else ugly, and at the same time feels himself as the victim, he is within "his rights" and "entitled" to do so. You are way off the mark. Am I "entitled" to say that?

But what does that mean....."entited" That means something that is within our rights. What is "Our Rights" Is he right. Am I right? Are you right? And who wrote "The Bill of Rights". I know it was written well before the the KKK organized it's murderous crusade against African Americans. I know it was written before John Lennon was shot in the back....poor Brit, he probably came here to excersise is "rights" to live free in America. I know it was written before hundreds of thousands of boys were drafted into Vietnam the war we now know was political. I love how we Americans excersise our rights. But that is not what I was talking about, as in "you missed the mark".

It's like the word fair. I love that word. We use it all the time. Somehow we were taught as kids that we have to be fair. We should be treated fairly. If your brother got one, so should you and on and on. But is there such a thing as fairness. How would one define fairness. Is life fair? Is business fair? Is early sickness or death fair? Is poverty and misery fair? Are bombs fair? When folks use these terms its usually to substantiate some selfish desire. I love the American Dream...... Everything must be fair, and we all have rights. Try reversing a parking ticket sometime for starters. And fairness was also something I would never refer to

So you may perhaps understand, my "entitled" opinion is that the commercial guy did not think of this sportie as rich or entitled. It was never a thought. Dont give yourself or your friend so much credit. Your opinion, is your projection. You may think of yourself as richer than him, but that is only your assumption. In fact "your friend" said I was perhaps in the same boat as this commercial guy, unhappy with my fate, and envious of his entitled and wealthy sportie life style. Quite presumptuous of him, but I thanked him for considering my feelings. The fact that I may be able to buy him five or ten times over, never have to work another day in my life, except I for the fact that I love my career, have great kids and a very special wife does not make me feel superior to him. The fact that I am awake does.

But I think I got my point accross. No need to debate. I know next time Perch will be much more aware of his own presents around boats that are steaming back to port or on their way out.....auto pilot set, and settled in for a hard run, and that it takes two to tango........over and out.

[MarkZ]

"Its much easier for you to think he envies you....for your time off, or your money (if you have any), and privilage....but that just may be your own projection my friend."

Here you are saying that Perch is condescending. I think you need to browse the dictionary. It's not really debatable.

[Perch]

Venture: Please note that in my original post I wrote: “maybe a commercial bluefish/striper fisherman.” For all I know he was a sport going out to jig or a guide hauling jiggers. And you are right when you state that I don’t know for sure what he was thinking. But you asked me to try to look at it from “his perspective,” and I attempted to accommodate you. What I do know is that this guy is lower than whale scat, and this tired old planet would be lots better off without him and his ilk. You are deluded if you think it always takes “two to tango.” Sometimes it takes just one idiot to start a needless fight, as many a bartender will attest. This guy was WAY, WAY out of line. I was nowhere near him, nor did I have any way of knowing that his alleged course would eventually take him in my direction. Had he steered around me and the school of fish I had found, he would have lost half a second; in fact, I have a hard time believing he’d have even had to touch the wheel. Instead, he invested five minutes spinning circles, leaping around like a chimpanzee, and shrieking like a Sabine virgin.

[mctrout]

Who gives a crap what the commerical guys think. They don't owe me any more than I owe them.
I make a living on the water just like they do, do they give a crap. Am I supposed to be in love with them because it supposedly makes me cool (like allot of people around here)? nope.
Blue Collar Sheik I believe it is called.
If you aint one of them, you aint one of them and vice versa.
Laughable the people that try to be something they are not.
So this aint a fly only board and maybe never was, but what do you want, a pin-hooker-gillnet-dragger-harpoon board.
They don't get along any better than we do so give it a rest..

[Perch]

Very well said Brendan. And it should be noted that fly-fishing guides--or at least the ones I know--work at least as hard (and probably harder) than the commercials. Not that the latter group is bereft of hardworking gentlemen. But I think that “Blue Collar Sheik” says it all. It’s sometimes a fact out there. And to me it’s sickening. One of my many problems with this angry element is they are blind to the beauty that’s around them. I can’t get inside the mind of this troglodyte who created that ugly scene in that lovely setting last Tuesday, but I’ll venture that he never once thanked God that he was out there on this beautiful water, that he never once exulted in the first flight of white gannets, or the flash of green albie backs, or rainbait spraying like welding sparks, or the low sun lighting the wings of Bonaparte gulls. And I’ll venture that before he ripped the treble hooks out of a short bass he never once held it up and let the light play on its silver flanks before he flung it angrily into the sea.

[venture]

Perch, obviously as you explain this story in more detail, this guy was dangerously nuts. I'm glad we had this discussion.

Montauk is filled with nuts. They are sprinkled around the docks and beaches ready to do battle. No traffic cops out there to protect the innocent. No police patroling the beaches either. It's a place where nuts can carry out their fantacies.

In the 15 years that I HAD, yes HAD my boat slipped in Montauk as a recreational fisherman, it was the "sport fisherman" who caused all of the fights that I saw. From fish guts on the dock, to fuel spills, Blasting Bruce Springstein at 5am, to running each other down on line for fuel etc, etc. Thats at the docks. On the water its worse. I've seen it all. Challenges at the docks, and much more dangerous stuff on the water. If you want to play out there, you will eventually encounter this.

Perhaps next time, after this experience, you will keep even a wider berth, and not have your day ruined by some baserck drunken lunatics.
My boat no longer is in Montauk. I got sick of the BS, and tired of the routine.

[mikemontauk]

But my guess is we will see all of you next fall. Happy Hunting.

[Perch]

You guessed right, Mike. I love the place and most of the people. And I can’t stay away, esp. when there are albies—the ultimate game fish in my opinion. I do much prefer to fish the Sluice and the south side and, my favorite place, Gardiners. But when there are no fish in those places, well, I go to the point. And I guess a few ugly encounters with yahoos are the price we all have to pay. As I mentioned, this year the traffic wasn’t bad at all, perhaps because of the price of gas.

[mattmiller]

'A WORKING CLASS HERO IS SOMETHING TO BE'...........POOR BRIT,GENIUS AND BARD OF THE 20TH CENTURY


But what does that mean....."entited" That means something that is within our rights. What is "Our Rights" Is he right. Am I right? Are you right? And who wrote "The Bill of Rights". I know it was written well before the the KKK organized it's murderous crusade against African Americans. I know it was written before John Lennon was shot in the back....poor Brit, he probably came here to excersise is "rights" to live free in America. I know it was written before hundreds of thousands of boys were drafted into Vietnam the war we now know was political. I love how we Americans excersise our rights. But that is not what I was talking about, as in "you missed the mark".

It's like the word fair. I love that word. We use it all the time. Somehow we were taught as kids that we have to be fair. We should be treated fairly. If your brother got one, so should you and on and on. But is there such a thing as fairness. How would one define fairness. Is life fair? Is business fair? Is early sickness or death fair? Is poverty and misery fair? Are bombs fair? When folks use these terms its usually to substantiate some selfish desire. I love the American Dream...... Everything must be fair, and we all have rights. Try reversing a parking ticket sometime for starters. And fairness was also something I would never refer to

So you may perhaps understand, my "entitled" opinion is that the commercial guy did not think of this sportie as rich or entitled. It was never a thought. Dont give yourself or your friend so much credit. Your opinion, is your projection. You may think of yourself as richer than him, but that is only your assumption. In fact "your friend" said I was perhaps in the same boat as this commercial guy, unhappy with my fate, and envious of his entitled and wealthy sportie life style. Quite presumptuous of him, but I thanked him for considering my feelings. The fact that I may be able to buy him five or ten times over, never have to work another day in my life, except I for the fact that I love my career, have great kids and a very special wife does not make me feel superior to him. The fact that I am awake does.

But I think I got my point accross. No need to debate. I know next time Perch will be much more aware of his own presents around boats that are steaming back to port or on their way out.....auto pilot set, and settled in for a hard run, and that it takes two to tango........over and out.[/QUOTE]

[Perch]

Sorry Matt you kinda lost me here with some of this. However, you may be entirely correct about what was coursing through the diminutive brain of this “commercial guy”--if such he was; and, as I wrote above, I have no way of knowing if he was a sportie or a commercial (though I hadn’t seen him out there all summer or fall, and I suspect he was the latter). And my opinion was indeed my “projection” because I had been invited by Venture to “try to see it from the other guy’s perspective.” Only one person knows if I was at fault or not, and that’s me. And I know I wasn’t. But that doesn’t mean I’m never at fault. Most of us who fish Montauk screw up from time to time--including me and including you. But we don’t do well with guys who come up on us shrieking, swearing, spinning circles, and throwing things. That’s why conversations get off to bad starts. If the guy had engaged me in civil discourse, even though the offense existed only in his imagination, I would have reciprocated. As I also mentioned above, when I made a mistake last year I apologized to the guide, and he could not have been more gracious about it. That’s how Montauk should be. Recall the day you, by your own admission, “made a mistake.” And you apologized to the offended party. But instead of being gracious about it he shrieked and swore and spun circles around your boat, too. What’s more, he vowed that he would continue spinning circles around your boat all season. Your reaction, more moderate than mine, was to inform him that you would “rip out his lungs.” My point is this, and I’m sure you’ll agree. It doesn’t have to be this way. Just because Montauk is very crowded at times and just because guys inadvertently get cut off and fish inadvertently get run over doesn’t mean it has be an ugly place. I for one deeply resent people who desecrate the beauty and magic of the place by the kind of boorish behavior you and I have experienced. See you out there next week, I hope. Tight lines, Perch.

[venture]

He always summed it up........Poor Brit. Wonder what Kovslovski is thinking right now......Poor Crook. Lahey got his. Heard that Cheney likes fly fishing.

[mattmiller]

my contiibution was the john lennon quote, i don't know how the rest of that crap got attatched to my post.sorry perch