Proper drag setting with braid?

[regulator 26]

I recently set up an outfit for jigging. It's a Shimano Trevala jigging and casting rod, medium heavy action, and a Shimano Spheros 1400 reel with 80 pound braid. The rod looks like it should have a Zebco on it, but has way more backbone than you could imagine based on appearance. I've read all the threads on drag washer problems with the Spheros, and I'm waiting for new washers to arrive from smoothdrag to address that problem.

My question is what do you all feel about drag settings. Should it be set as a percentage of the line test for the braid? or should it be set for the recommended line test for the reel? In reality, the braid is there for its size and ability to get more of it onto the spool, with the additional benefit of sensitivity, no stretch, abrasion resistance, etc. Even with the improved drag washers, will the reel and drag stand up to an appropriate drag for 80# test.
Is there a general rule of thumb for this situation?

[Lucky]

30% is what i've always used on the weakest part of your gear...so if you are 80lb braid down to 40 floro...12lbs would be the setting. That said, i am usually 10lbs for the first run and then crank up to 12 lbs (i know how many "clicks" on the setting that takes) to finish the job.

[Go Fish]

I do exactly what Lucky said but I just set the drag for 1/3 the breaking strength of the weakest link and forget about it.

Here is something to consider: 1/3 of 80 is about 27 lbs of drag. I don't know if you have ever tried to stand up against that much drag...it's alot. Think about trying to hold onto a 30 pound dumb bell for 15 minutes...

The weakest link in my set-ups is 40 or 50 lb leader material so I run 12 and 15 lbs of drag respectively. Both are enough to tire you out over a 15-20 minute fight.

[jay]

Are you setting the drag with a scale? Does anyone know if you can use a boga for setting drag lbs?

[schwilp]

We crank the drag up to 20-25 lbs+. With Trevalla rod you can get a 70 lb fish to the boat in under 5min - which great if you are releasing them. The rods are amazing. You can't do this with every reel though.

[Codfisher]

I run 65lb JB braid with 45 lb fluro leader (Seargar premier) and set the drag (with a scale) on my Spheros 14000 at 14 lbs. Have landed 12 fish this year on this setup (still using the orginal drag washers BTW) and only had one breakoff when another fish cut the braid while I was fighting a fish. Biggest thing is not to increase the drag as the battle wears on...let the rod and reel work for you.

[in_the_water]

I have never used a drag scale. Does anyone have a reccomendation for a particlar model without spending top dollar?

[Go Fish]

A spring scale from Walmart (the kind with the hook on it for weighing fish) will run you >$15 and do just fine.

[sage fly guy]

The 14k spheros model only puts out about 24#'s of drag with stock washers, the thunnus a couple #'s less. Unless you crank the drag down with vicegrips you aren't getting close to max drag. 10-12# should be about right. Those stock washers are going to go south quick after several burning runs, and you won't be able to get much more drag at all. Think about swapping them out.

Now the Stella is a different story, 65#'s out of the box. Ouch!!

chris

[e-sea-e]

I use the spheros14000 and check the drag on a digital pull scale every time out- 12 lbs or so for 50 lb power pro has never let me down. I try not to adjust the drag durring the fight, and palm the spool durring the end game. that was with the stock drag washers.

I now have the carbontex drag washers in all my spheros 14000s- they say it increases the drag capacity some 20-30% from stock washers, but i still keep it at 12 lbs or so. if i have to, I can get more, supposedly. so far the new drag works great, Ive got a few fish with them and no problems.

very good advice chris, you are absolutely correct, I found that out after three seasons, all 3 14Ks went south this year. But, with the carbontext drag washers in them I am now convinced you dont need to spend the money on a stella.

[Capt.ChrisLembo]

My Jigging set ups are:

Trevalla TVC58XH 80-200 5'8" rods with Accurate 197XC reels loaded with close to 250 yds of 80 pound PowerPro. FYI the line rating on Trevalla is for Braid but these blanks are extremely powerful in the butt section but have medium action for jigging. Looks are deceiving.

I have caught everything from 60 pound Amberjack, Permit, big Sharks, 25 pound Blackfin Tunas, a 55 pound Wahoo and plenty of big Grouper. Most of these fish are from wrecks in 150-310 feet deep.

Try the Accurate instead of the Shim.......Drag is far superior and you need that if you are fishing on the edge. I prefer the conventional for jigging. The Accurate 197XC is 6:1 and very light (18 oz.)and small so it is easy to jig with for hours. The 270 XC is the next size up and only 20 oz. Weight is a concern when jigging for long periods of time. Try the TS12 twinspin. I have 4 and sold all my Stellas for these instead. Way better drag but around same price.

I keep my strike drag set at 10 pounds and max is around 17 at that setting.


With the Trevalla rod you will be ok around there or a little more but most other rods will break pretty quick with heavy drag and a good head shake or quick run. The PowerPro lack of stretch is great for keeping the fish off wrecks or bottom but puts more stress on the rod.

I set mine with the Boga Grip and do the initial set and then check it 3 times. I checked it on a very high quality Digital hand scale once and it was almost exactly the same.

[Albiemanmike]

We crank the drag up to 20-25 lbs+. With Trevalla rod you can get a 70 lb fish to the boat in under 5min

Schwilp,
Please don't take this the wrong way but I would pay to see you land one of these 50" fish in 5 min. or less on a Trevala or any rod for that matter. I am NO expert and have only caught ONE large BFT to date so I am somewhat inexperienced at this game when it comes to fighting the fish. But I assure you I pressure the fish I caught to the limits of the tackle I was using and there was no way anyone was landing that fish in 5 min. I was using a 20-40 lb. heavy action Shimano spin rod with a Quantum Cabo 70 and 30 lb braid, the braid was the weak link and I know I could have cranked on this fish a lot more if it had been spooled with 50 lb. instead but it was borrowed gear. My buddy just got a Trevala 6'6" heavy action Trevala and landed a nice 46" fish and it took him the better part of 20+ min. to land that one. I ask you please to share how you are landing these fish in such a short amount of time???? I am always looking to better myself and technique and if I am doing something wrong fighting these fish I would welcome some advice on how to shorten the battle. The other thing is when using the braided line if you really put a ton of pressure on the fish you had better make sure you have the absolute BEST/STRONGEST terminal gear available. I had one treble on the back of the Hydro Popper (Owner 4X strong) that was bent open when I checked it after landing my fish and that was with 30 lb. and not putting as much pressure as I wanted on the fish. Thanks for the help!

[sage fly guy]

Albiemanmike,

I know your kidding right.......Four/five/six years ago before we really learned how to fight these things I timed Terry at right around 4 minutes on a solid 70# fish.


Angler with some skill should be landing these fish in under 15 minutes, if not, your doing the fish and other's on the boat a disservice. You need to beat these fish, and beat them fast starting right after that first long run, pressure, pressure, pressure. Fight with the butt of the rod, not the tip, max out your line and leader. Remember the video of Ruge, he had the damned right approach, just not the sense to take his hand of the spool at endgame.

I wish I had taken video of my GUSA predator/stella 20000 fight of a 60#er, probably somewhere in the 3 minute range. It wasn't even sporting. Like landing a bluefish on a 30w.

Learn to tie a decent knot, both line to leader and leader to lure, quality split rings and hooks, you should have no problem clocking in under 15 minutes. Unless your going to a gunfight with a knife, that's when the problems arise.

Back sweat, if you ain't got any going after 1 minute, you ain't working hard enough.

chris

[e-sea-e]

Albieman: try using the shimano 5'8" XXH rod- I can get a 70-90 lb fish to the boat in under 10 minutes easily. we call it the beastmaster, and for good reason. About 2 weeks ago a member of this board watched me get 3 fish onto his boat with that rod, all under 10 minutes, all 47-49 inch fish. those rods can lift a truck. I also use a trevela 6'3" MH rod, and another member of this board watched me get a 52" 90+lb fish on his boat in about 20 minutes - a bit long, but that rod is not the best for a fish that size. Ive caught 60-70 lb fish with it, its over in 15 minutes max. also, fighting the fish in the way terry decribed is key- ALWAYS keep the fish's head pointing up. their tails never stop beating, and they swim in the direction thier head is pointing. If its pointing up towards you, they are swimming up. the death spiral becomes a quick corkscrew ride to the surface.

I point this out not to brag, but just to point that the right tackle and alot of experience is key to a quick fight with these fish. 4-5 years ago I was not as experienced as I am now and was using improper tackle and had the same problems as you are having now. once you get some more fish hooked and get more experience fighting them, your landing times will come down.

BTW, what 20-40 lb shimano rod are you using? Im guessing the tallus. if it's the 7' or the 6'6" rod, those rods will get it done but are not the best rod for the job if an inexperienced angler is using it. an experienced angler should be able to land fish up to 80 lbs with those rods fairly easily. Id reccomend the XXH trevella mentioned above or terry's favorite, the st criox- 20-40 lb class rod. Or, if youre using the tallus rods, keep using them, and your landing times will come down as you get more experience under your belt.


I know the guys at first light had one of those rods Trevela XXH rods as of last weekend.

if you are proficient at casting with a spinning rod, they cast excellent as well. especially the larger yozuri hydro poppers:brow

[anut]

Said member of this board also watched you smoke drags it 2 shimano reels! I thought you were going to handline them!

[schwilp]

Hi Albiemike - no really, it can be done - DON'T try this with a casting spin rod or you will break it. If you are jigging with a Trevala rod and braid and you really crank up the drag on your reel (it needs to be a good reel - Stella like) with a Trevalla rod these fish can come up very quickly - they don't always , but they can. If they can't run they can't breathe. Many, many 60-80 lb fish have been caught in < 10min and quite a few in the 5min. range. It's serious pulling (that's a ton of drag). You will also get fish that are tougher and can take 20-30min. I haven't seen topwater fish brought in that quickly - if they hit metal or a plug they are already moving and once they get started it's hard to stop them - you also can't put 18-20lbs of drag on a casting rod (unless you cast a Trevala - which can be done). I'm posting this not to brag - it's not that cool to winch a fish up - but the fish are in better shape for release and they are actually easier to land, surprisingly spent most of the time. Try really cranking up the drag on your next fish and REALLY crank on it - it will come up..... unless you hook a really big fish... that's different..

[e-sea-e]

Said member of this board also watched you smoke drags it 2 shimano reels! I thought you were going to handline them!

george- you only saw me smoke the drag on 1 spheros reel- on the fourth fish I hooked that day, and the only one of mine that didnt get landed ;)

the others came up quick though, didnt they. the beastmaster does the job.

schwilp, sounds like you are another trevela convert. All mine are the spinning rods, they cast excellent, even the short ones, and you can really put the boots to the fish. we jig and cast with them.

[schwilp]

Yes, they are freakishly good - unbelievably strong and light . The first time you hook something on them you can't believe how much pressure you can apply (btw I don't have financial ties with Shimano... it'd be nice though... ).

[regulator 26]

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice on this thread, especially E-Sea-E who helped with some advise on how to remove that awful plastic insert on the front of the spool.

I put your suggestions to use, and what follows is how it worked out for us;
We took the advise of the majority and replaced the standard drag washers with the smoothdrag carbontex washers. If anyone owns one of these reels, and has any doubts about the drag system, I strongly suggest that a quick look at the standard washers will convince you that they’ll never last. So we installed the washers, and set the drag at 12# with a drag scale. I also took the advice of “lucky” and got an idea of how many clicks of additional drag would result in an additional 3# of drag.

So it’s off to CCB from Mattapoisett on Friday AM. We arrive at Peaked Hill Bar area, passing a boat that’s hooked up. Very few boats around, tons of birds, and busting (small) fish everywhere. We work from pod to pod casting, without any takers. We try all the usual lures, but decide these are the same smallish fish that don’t seem to be interested in eating anything. So we move on to the north and the bank. Along the way we encounter countless pods of fish and birds with similar results. For a while the wind came up pretty good, the skies darkened, and we were thinking our day was going to be cut short. But the blow didn’t last very long, and the water really began to lay down when we got onto the bank.

We’ve practically got the place to ourselves. There’s barely a boat on radar within 4 miles! We find another pod of fish, and they look to be a bit larger, and seem to be crashing around more aggressively. We stop the boat, and I go to the bow with the spinning rod, and “wifey” tosses a yellow butterfly jig over the side on the Trevala/Spheros set up with the new drag washers. I’m getting no interest with what I’m casting, and as I’m walking back to change lures she remarks that there is still nothing showing on the sounder.
At that precise moment the fish hit! The first run doubled the rod over, and it became quickly apparent that the fish was going to cut across the stern of the boat, and the outboards (props). So she hands off to me.

The first shortcoming we discovered of the Trevala rod, was it was short to begin with, and when doubled over it was very difficult to hold it out over the engines and the bracket, to get to the other side of the boat. The line is screaming off the reel, and the drag is smooth as can be. Soon we’re working the fish back towards the boat, and it starts to settle almost directly under the boat. It seems that no matter what side of the boat I’m on, the fish is always slightly on the opposite side of centerline making it tough to get a good angle and pull on it. With 12# of drag the rod is bent in better than a 180 degree arc with the tip is headed on its way back towards the handle trying to complete a full circle. We’re making reasonable progress in getting the fish up, but moving from side to side on the boat constantly trying to maintain a good angle. Another problem with the short rod length was trying to keep the line off the bow eye when going around the bow.

We’re about 10 minutes into the fight, the drag is flawless, I’m making pretty good progress with the fish, there haven’t been any big runs or surges for a while,and the drag is flawless. So I remark to my wife that “I’m going to really put the screws to the fish now”, I give the drag the quarter turn that will increase the drag 3# to a total of 15#. The fish must have heard my comment, because it took off on it’s longest run yet. Again, he drag was flawless! I work it back again, and now it moves from its position under the boat, to up high enough to see color and out at 75-100 feet from the boat. It starts trying to circle, and I try to turn it from the direction it’s headed. I lost track of how many circles, as I’m thinking we’re near the end here. Back down it goes under the boat, and my wife remarks “So much for putting the screws to it”, and says she’s going to sit down because she’s tired of following me in circles carrying the gaff. :rolleyes:

We’re at about 30 minutes here, and I’m starting to worry about the fish we didn’t get from the week before and the chaffed and broken line. So I keep pulling on the fish, and start palming the spool a little on the upswing. It seems to be helping. I’m worried about any additional drag after reading about all the broken rods this past week. As it is, I really can’t believe that this little rod is bending as much as it is, and have no confidence that it can go further. Finally we get the fish up, it makes the classic last couple of small circles next to the boat. I hand off the rod to my wife as she hands me the gaff. The first shot missed, but not the second! Haul it over the side, and it’s high fives. Total time was about 45 minutes. Fish measured 51” and somewhere around 80# I would guess.

This morning I was determined to do three things.
(#1) was to check the drag on the same scale I set it with to see if there was any wear and change of setting. I backed it off the quarter turn I’d put on it and it measured the same 12# I set it at. I put the quarter turn back and it pulled at 15#.

#2) was to take the drag apart and see how it looked. There was some minor polishing on the washers, but less than I ever would have expected. No reservations about putting them right back in even with a couple of spares available. I have every confidence that the reel could handle a lot more drag, but I don’t feel the rod could.

(#3) WAS TO THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR HELP.

While a lot of people might be able to muscle in a fish in 10-15 minutes with the same gear, I recognize that I don’t have the experience of someone that spends every day on the water while the fish are here. When I hook a fish I want to land it, I want it in the box, and on my plate. I’m not fishing for catch and release unless it’s to small, and that’s usually pretty apparent. I’d much rather have a longer fight, with a favorable outcome, that try to set some record for the shortest fight and send the fish off with a lure in his jaw, followed by a length of broken line. The fight is the fun, enjoy it!

All in all a great day, thanks to the help of all of you

[sage fly guy]

Best report I have read all season!!!!!:-%

chris

[dcomte]

Are the carbontex washers available localy or do you need to mail order them? Dan

[schwilp]

Nice fish! And great job! - and I agree . - if you know you're going to keep the fish then it makes more sense to lighten up - it can also be more fun. And every fish is different - I've seen 40 lb fish not make into the backing on fly (? how's that for weird) - and smaller fish go screaming....

[regulator 26]

Tuna Tatare on Avacado with Cape Cod chips.
It's going to be a long winter!

[anut]

Nice fish, great report.

Lucky it did not bust you off on the run toward the back. That is our biggest danger zone. We have busted a few off like that and you have a bigger boat. Alot of guys who swear by fighting the fish from a still boat have boats were they can easily get the rod tip out around the engine(o/b) or props. I have found on mine this is not the case, it is a long reach from the cabin and difficult to get out on the plateform and back, especially in seas.

Our landing success is much higher when we use a throttle man to keep the fish to the side of the boat and the angler as stationairy as possible. Often as simple as a little reverse. When the fish makes a fast run toward the boat we have the angler run around the bow, but most of the time a little throttle dance and the angler can wedge in and get it done. Bad things tend to happen when guys start doing the tuna tango on our boat anyway (25 mako), probably our inexperience, but like you I want to eat them and this has worked best for us.

Eric,
My mistake, I thought you were down to the beast master with 2 smoked drags in other reels. And I did see him beat a face hooked 48"er in under 10 minutes. Impressive. You really put the wood to it with that trevella, but I think I am sticking to the St Croix 20-40# rod for now. I like that I can get the line over my high rails in front and around the engines if need be. And it casts well.

[sagamoron]

Are the carbontex washers available localy or do you need to mail order them? Dan

Google "smooth drag" or try chartbait.

[e-sea-e]

congrats on the fish!! That plastic cover is a real PITA to get off.

2 things-

first, you wont break that trevella. No way. wont happen. dont worry about overstressing it. Im curious, which one are you using?

second, if you are using the 6'3" or 5'8", you have noted the one shortcoming i noticed as well- the shortness of the rod. especially on the 5'8" rod. it bends so much you end up with the top half of the rod and the line real close to the side of the boat, probably like 2 feet away- you gotta be careful and really pay attention. if its windy make sure you fight the fish on the upwind side of the boat, otherwise the boat blows down towards the line, and the distance between boat and line is even smaller. also, pay close attention when the fish starts spiraling, the line can come awful close to the hull as the fish goes under the boat. since you have an outboard with a bracket, definately keep the boat in gear as others have suggested.

nice work!

also- any chance you can send me the recipie for that tartare? the one i use is great, but wouldnt go well over avacado. that looks delicious!

[anut]

Please post when you get a chance.

[regulator 26]

We had something similar to this at the 4 seasons in Boston from their app. menu. It was so good we tried to duplicate it at home


For the avacado, I use a real ripe one, chopped fine, sprinkle with sea salt and splash with lemon juice.

For the Tuna, I don't have an actual recipe, but I'll take a shot at the proportions. After making it a number of times I just kind of do it automatically. As they say, "it ain't rocket science"

About half a cup offinely chopped tuna, A couple of tablespoons of good soy sauce. About a teaspoon of Mirin (sweet rice wine) or Saki will work too. About the same amount of lemon juice, a small amt of Asian toasted sesame oil to taste, some salt, mix up well (the sesame oil will separate)and toss in the tuna. A little finely chopped sweet onion or scallion for flavor & texture.
A ring mold makes it look nice, Avacado pressed into the bottom, with the Tuna on top. Salty potato chips like Cape Cod are great with it.

We always save all the small pieces I miss on the rack when cutting out the loins, and this makes great use of them.

[luckyduck]

Tried your recipe and it was the best yet. The avacado really adds something. I could never duplicate a recipe from something I had eaten once in the past. You catch the fish and make the dinner, appetizer and all. Your wife is some lucky woman!! Or maybe, a luckyduck???

[regulator 26]

:rolleyes:

[anut]

We had something similar to this at the 4 seasons in Boston from their app. menu. It was so good we tried to duplicate it at home


For the avacado, I use a real ripe one, chopped fine, sprinkle with sea salt and splash with lemon juice.

For the Tuna, I don't have an actual recipe, but I'll take a shot at the proportions. After making it a number of times I just kind of do it automatically. As they say, "it ain't rocket science"

About half a cup offinely chopped tuna, A couple of tablespoons of good soy sauce. About a teaspoon of Mirin (sweet rice wine) or Saki will work too. About the same amount of lemon juice, a small amt of Asian toasted sesame oil to taste, some salt, mix up well (the sesame oil will separate)and toss in the tuna. A little finely chopped sweet onion or scallion for flavor & texture.
A ring mold makes it look nice, Avacado pressed into the bottom, with the Tuna on top. Salty potato chips like Cape Cod are great with it.

We always save all the small pieces I miss on the rack when cutting out the loins, and this makes great use of them.

I have served this 3 times now and it gets rave reviews. My 6 and 8 yr olds ask for it.

Thank you for posting this!