ipswich bay today

[herman]

Just had to give it a try today.
Looked from hp to old scatum . We did mark some fish but no luck for us.


The day would have been great but---
There were at least 6 pairs of the mid water boats stripping every ounce of life from the bay.

After trying to jig up some of the marked tuna we moved out to the edge of old scatum and saw a single trawler moving in slow circles. The trawler move off as we approached and thats when we saw them - ACRES of dead blueback herring floating on the surface.

Can someeone tell me why a trawler would dump this many fish???
Very sad!

[happytuna]

did you take a picture and get the name of the boat
they had to much buy catch like dogs or somthing i bet and just dumped the net and its not counted to it sucks i was told there was 9 of the boats out there today it is realy sad but they got the money and the gov in there pockets it stinks

[twofinbluna]

Just had to give it a try today.
Looked from hp to old scatum . We did mark some fish but no luck for us.


The day would have been great but---
There were at least 6 pairs of the mid water boats stripping every ounce of life from the bay.

After trying to jig up some of the marked tuna we moved out to the edge of old scatum and saw a single trawler moving in slow circles. The trawler move off as we approached and thats when we saw them - ACRES of dead blueback herring floating on the surface.

Can someeone tell me why a trawler would dump this many fish???
Very sad!

That is sickening. I will do my best to pass this info along to the right people. Herman, do you have pictures of this? Do you know what the boat looked like or what the name was? Shoot me a PM if you would rather do it discretely.

There are two reasons they would do this. First, I heard a lot of the herring in the Bay were spawning. Many of the boats now supply to the food market for herring, meaning they do not want fish full of spawn. They sometimes do not want spawn fish for lobster bait, either. Regardless, they will dump a whole bag of fish, dead, if they pull it up and see it is too spawny. There is actually a loophole in place that makes it so they do not even have to report dumpings- essentially the regs allow for it.

Or, they may have realized they had a whole load of river herring and instead of getting in trouble and causing a firestorm (which may happen if someone sees them unloading river herring) they may dump the bag.

It is sick, but this happens way more than a lot of guys here realize. This is why we are fighting so hard to get teh Council to take action. The midwater fishery is messed up. Check out the sample letter thread I put up a wee k or two ago, on this forum, and speak up.

Herman, please PM me if you could.

[twofinbluna]

THIS is why I am always reminding people to BRING CAMERAS WITH THEM!!!!!! (Even if a crappy disposable!)

[twofinbluna]

Here is an excerpt from a post a guy made on THT last night:

i seen 12 midwater trawlers in ipswich bay today going back and forth all day long there will be nothing left in the bay in 72 hours probly less . the herring are still full of eggs who says they are done spawning oct 21 tell the fish that why don't they have observers on these boats now during these opening days for science reasons . if there were observers on these boats they would be done effective imediately.150' boats should not be fishing within at least 40 miles off the beach so us smaller boats can catch fish where we use to catch it , before the midwater trawlers ever showed up 10 years or less, they ruined boston bluefin fishing .something that was so famous is now so sad . canada has a heathy stock of herring = heathy stock of bluefin tuna . i'm not even a scientist just seen it unfolding before my very eyes. nmfs is full of crap they should be working for us taxpayers we pay their salary why don't we have any say . unbelievable how they ruined another fishiery. idoits they will never get it right ,excuse me marine fisheries has brought back an endangered species known as the "dogfish" the biggest preditor of the ocean. nothing will ever live with so many dogfish out there .good job marine fisheries now lets do something now about those midwater trawlers . . we need to hold their hand and tell them what is going on, like you tell little kids .they don't know what goes on out there without us telling them ,just look at the numbers, no herring +dogfish = no feed for bluefin tuna or codfish =no fisherman . i just didn't make this all up , fact, you don't have to be a scientist to figure it out 25yrs of hands on experience should count plus everyone elses yrs of experience should count too .

[goinwishin]

the name of the trawler that dumped the herring was the nordic explorer. They dumped the herring right on the western tip of old scantum. There were literally acres of herring solid across the surface, but we didn't have a camera on the boat. We can't seem to catch any tuna so why bring a camera right.

[twofinbluna]

the name of the trawler that dumped the herring was the nordic explorer. They dumped the herring right on the western tip of old scantum. There were literally acres of herring solid across the surface, but we didn't have a camera on the boat. We can't seem to catch any tuna so why bring a camera right.

Thanks, wishin. Disturbing story, but I am glad someone was there to see it so that another dumping did not go unnoticed.

[twofinbluna]

Mods asked to remove the picture, you can see that pic and a few others if you want at the following site: http://www.norpel.com/index6.html

[twofinbluna]

that her, wishin?

[goinwishin]

thats the one. I'm sure they all were doing it, the herring had bright blue/purple backs i don't know if that helps differentiate whether they are river herring. Hope you can use the info. it was my first time seeing them working and it was disturbing.

[rifishman]

This is to advise the poster TWOFINBLUNA that he has posted a Copyrighted picture from a Commercial Website.

Please remove the picture immediately.

Suggest you read the FAQ's more closely:

5. Cross-posting (posting material on forums across the Internet), copying copyrighted material from other sites, padding your posts with extraneous reams of textbook-like material to make it seem like you know what your talking about will not be tolerated and will be subject to punishment as per item #2.

[Bruce H]

First post not even a hello or an introduction? Something about dumping bycatch and lots of dead floaters seems to have struck a nerve?????

[plumisland]

It is my belief that when someone posts a response like yours you should include a little back round about yourself and why you feel that what was posted is wrong. the posts here sometimes create different opinions. These opinions should be discussed to benefit the thread and its readers. lurking and striking out with a acusation is not what this site is about. just my 2c

[Codfisher]

The Moderators on this site do a very good job at maintaining order and I dont think they required the help of a new poster to do their job.

IMO Twofin has done more to help us keep up to speed on the plague (MWTs) that invests our waters than anyone else on this site and I hope he will continue to keep the fires lit until we eradicate this disease.

[e-sea-e]

This is to advise the poster TWOFINBLUNA that he has posted a Copyrighted picture from a Commercial Website.

Please remove the picture immediately.

Suggest you read the FAQ's more closely:

5. Cross-posting (posting material on forums across the Internet), copying copyrighted material from other sites, padding your posts with extraneous reams of textbook-like material to make it seem like you know what your talking about will not be tolerated and will be subject to punishment as per item #2.

I guess the truth hurts.....

[riptide]

This is to advise the poster TWOFINBLUNA that he has posted a Copyrighted picture from a Commercial Website.

Please remove the picture immediately.

Suggest you read the FAQ's more closely:

5. Cross-posting (posting material on forums across the Internet), copying copyrighted material from other sites, padding your posts with extraneous reams of textbook-like material to make it seem like you know what your talking about will not be tolerated and will be subject to punishment as per item #2.


Funny there is NOTHING on the site about Copywriting, NOTHING that says PLEASE DON"T use these pics. For a high tech company it only takes 1 line of HTML to keep people from cutting and pasting off your site.

[SeaHunt]

Thanks Twofinbluna for all your work on this issue. It's obvious these guys are scared, as they know what they are doing is criminal. Norpel is just the tip of the iceberg...

[stripah]

Down in New Bedford they are getting the big guns goin, 2 boats from New Hampshire are down there, as well as the usuals like the Western Hunter and the Dona Marita with her new paint job, lots of activity they are getting ready for some real action.

[twofinbluna]

This is to advise the poster TWOFINBLUNA that he has posted a Copyrighted picture from a Commercial Website.

Please remove the picture immediately.

Suggest you read the FAQ's more closely:

5. Cross-posting (posting material on forums across the Internet), copying copyrighted material from other sites, padding your posts with extraneous reams of textbook-like material to make it seem like you know what your talking about will not be tolerated and will be subject to punishment as per item #2.


RI, maybe if you did not dump so much fish you would not have to worry about this to begin with.

Have a nice day. Have fun dumping bycatch!

[twofinbluna]

Funny there is NOTHING on the site about Copywriting, NOTHING that says PLEASE DON"T use these pics. For a high tech company it only takes 1 line of HTML to keep people from cutting and pasting off your site.

Good call, Terry

[twofinbluna]

Thanks Twofinbluna for all your work on this issue. It's obvious these guys are scared, as they know what they are doing is criminal. Norpel is just the tip of the iceberg...


So true, Seahunt, so true.

[twofinbluna]

I guess the truth hurts.....

True. They should avoid dumping acres of herring a few miles from shore so that they wont have to deal with this kind of thing.

[twofinbluna]

First post not even a hello or an introduction? Something about dumping bycatch and lots of dead floaters seems to have struck a nerve?????


LOL, Bruce. Wonder if he has some kind of connection with NORPEL??????? :eek:

[twofinbluna]

I told you these MW guys patrolled websites like this.

[twofinbluna]

Down in New Bedford they are getting the big guns goin, 2 boats from New Hampshire are down there, as well as the usuals like the Western Hunter and the Dona Marita with her new paint job, lots of activity they are getting ready for some real action.

They are getting ready to POUND the backside of the Cape.

[Go Fish]

They are getting ready to POUND the backside of the Cape.

The species these big boats make their money from are there in big numbers right now...If I was that kind of fisherman and had to pay the bills, you can bet I'd be right ther with them.

If it was giants ready for a poon, twofinbluna would be there.

If it was school tuna ready to eat a popper, jig or fly every guide with sports would be there...along with the rest of us.


Nordic Explorer may have done something wrong...and if she did I hope the owners and captain burn for it.

If you are really concerned, and I am addressing everyone here, stop being a "me too" internet weenie and do something about it.

Write a letter to your favorite legislator, preach conservative fishing to your friends...in real life...hell, just put a fish back more often than not.

FWIW the copyright for the page in question can be found by scrolling to the botttom after you click on the link:

http://www.norpel.com/contact.htm

[twofinbluna]

The species these big boats make their money from are there in big numbers right now...If I was that kind of fisherman and had to pay the bills, you can bet I'd be right ther with them.



Are you serious?????? You honestly think herring and mackerel are doing well right now???? Completely disagree with you on that one (as would most fishermen off New England). These boats have wiped out most of the herring in the GOM, and from what the herring fishermen would tell you themselves, there is hardly any herring offshore on Georges.

And mackerel are doing poorly too. We rarely see mackerel anymore off Maine. There were some tinkers around this summer, but nothing like in years past. And the big macks are almost non-existant. And the midwater mackerel fleet found less mackerel this past season than they ever have.

And you would not have a problem running a midwater boat? You have seen these boats fish, right? Its some of the worst gear being used anywhere on earth right now. Its incapable of fishing in a sustainable manner. You could never pay me enough to ever use midwater trawl gear.

Regardless of all that, the issue is not whether or not people should be able to catch herring...its about the way they do it. Midwater trawl gear is bad. If these boats would switch to seining, it would be a different story altogether. We never had any problems until the midwater gear came on the scene.

If it was giants ready for a poon, twofinbluna would be there.


If there were a lot of tuna somewhere, there is a chance I would be there. But I would be using my hand-thrown harpoon to catch fish that have to be at least 73" to keep (translation: smart fish). We dont use a spotter plane, either, which makes what we do a lot harder (harpooning while using a plane is still very hard, though).Harpooning is as hard as it gets and when you are lucky enough to get one, you do it one at a time. There is zero bycatch, and no impact on other species in the area. Not only that, but there would be only 50mt of quota for the entire New England harpoon fleet.

There is no comparison between the way we fish and the way midwater boats fish.



If you are really concerned, and I am addressing everyone here, stop being a "me too" internet weenie and do something about it.

Write a letter to your favorite legislator, preach conservative fishing to your friends...in real life...hell, just put a fish back more often than not.

If you had any idea how much time I have spent going to meetings, making calls, writing letters, and all that stuff in regards to this issue for about 6 years now, you would probably not make that comment.

FWIW the copyright for the page in question can be found by scrolling to the botttom after you click on the link:

http://www.norpel.com/contact.htm


Just curious, why are you sticking up for these guys?

[codking]

Mods asked to remove the picture, you can see that pic and a few others if you want at the following site: http://www.norpel.com/index6.html


Next time twofin just copy the pic, change it a little and host it somewhere and put up the link. Then its yours!

If they didn't want it copied and possibly changed then as rip said they could add a little html to prevent it.

CK

[Capt. John]

looks like mods asked for the pic to be removed so it was replaced with a link of the pic, perfectly legal. These other guys are on the wrong the site if advocating for the protection of midwater trawlers :brow .

[twofinbluna]

Capt John

Check your emails when you get a moment.

Thanks

[Go Fish]

Are you serious?????? You honestly think herring and mackerel are doing well right now????

No. I don't. I love to catch mackerel with little fly rods and I love the way they taste when smoked. I have not been able to enjoy either of those things for the past couple of seasons.


And you would not have a problem running a midwater boat?...You could never pay me enough to ever use midwater trawl gear.


I do have a problem with them and would never be a party to one either. They are devistating fishing platforms that are unfortunately not illegal...but there is the rub they are not illegal.


There is no comparison between the way we fish and the way midwater boats fish.

Sure there is...all fishing has one thing in common: we need to be where the species we are targeting is located.


If you had any idea how much time I have spent going to meetings, making calls, writing letters, and all that stuff in regards to this issue for about 6 years now, you would probably not make that comment.

I was not suggesting you did not do your part. It is fairly obvious to the readers of this forum that you are into the conservation aspect of fishing quite heavily.

My poorly made point is that we, as a bunch of folks that share opinion on the internet, don't have any impact on real life unless we do something about it in real life. Ganging up on a nameless, faceless enemy with nothing but our common distaste for the way they fish is useless. It might make us feel better about the problem for a little while but that is it.


Just curious, why are you sticking up for these guys?

I'm not sticking up for them. I think they suck. I am sticking up for gathering information completely, backing statements up with hard fact and beating them over the head with it.

This thread, and most like them, is nothing but conjecture, opinion and rage. It is not effective and if I was Norpel I would be reading it and thinking that I didn't have to worry about anything from this bunch of disorganized bone heads.

[twofinbluna]

I hope that NORPEL is reading this and I really hope they think they do not have to worry about us.

This thread is not supposed to be an organized effort or anything like that, though. This is a thread where two people have come on and reported seeing fish get dumped, and gave vessel name and location. I have no doubt that they saw what they say they saw, a lot of people have seen that kind of dumping...its not conjecture, its fact.

I agree with you completely that people need to take action and that talking about stuff online on boards and doing nothing else is not going to get us anywhere. Thankfully, this board is only a small part of the fight. An important part, but a small one. I think part of what you are saying is that people need to be more involved and if so, totally agree.

I agree with completely too when you say: "I think they suck. I am sticking up for gathering information completely, backing statements up with hard fact and beating them over the head with it." But without a camera, all they have is their word. I have no reason to doubt them (and remember there are two different people that reported seeing it).

Thats exactly what we have been trying to do. Do not mistake this thread to be more than it is: guys reporting back about something they witnessed that ****ed them off. They have the right to do that. The fact that the MW boats can dump those fish and not report it is ludrcous. You cannot have a quota fishery when there is a substantioal amount of moralty not being accounted for. If I were the guys who saw the dumping, I would be telling everyone too.

Unless you think they are making that up, I do not see the problem with them telling everyone here what they saw.

[herman]

Why in the world would you say this is "nothing but conjecture"
I was there - the sight was unreal - there were so many herring floating that the birds - thousands of them - were ignoring them - they were full!

you can support the Trawlers or not - but i find it hard to belive ANYONE can support this type of deliberate waste!

[BHenchy]

"Disorganized bunch of boneheads". Well then.

I guess the midwater ban in Area 1A was just a fluke. I trust this bunch of boneheads will continue to document this sort of behaviour until this gear type is altogether banned. In my opinion it just has no place in any fishery management scheme. Period.

Why are those boats even fishing there--they know full well that this is a spawning area at this time of year. Next they'll move to the Nantucket Shoals spawning grounds and clean that up, killing untold striped bass at the same time while the President issues an executive order to protect stripers in Federal Waters.

Let me think--Jeffries, Platts, Ipswich Bay, Great South Channel, Cultivator Shoal. All herring spawning grounds. Also traditional giant bluefin grounds. All now pounded in season by midwater trawlers. Bluefin landings the worst in 50 years in New England.

Any "boneheads" see a correlation?

[north coast]

pretty obvious huh, amazing that the people we've trusted to manage our fisheries havn't been able to figure this out. anyone else feel it's time for a BIG change in the way(and who) our oceans are managed?