Transom Rebuild

[Go Fish]

The project is well underway and there is no turning back now. I striped all of the hardware, plumbing and electrical from the stern of the boat and disconected the motor over the past two weekends.

Pulling the Big Red Plug was a little bittersweet but don't worry...I'll get over it.

I took a couple shots of the stern so we can keep track of the progress. The first one is an overview and the second has some red dotted lines indicating where I'm going to make cuts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0129.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/SternCuts.jpg

The goal here is to free up some additional floor space at the ass end of the boat, close in the transom and hang a bracket for the new Suzi 250 I picked up last fall.

It is going to be a BIG project...especially for a hack like me. I'll keep posting to this thread to share progress and anti-progress as I move toward completion.

[Albiemanmike]

Kev,
Good luck with the project. You will be very pleased when she is all done and you are going to love that Suzuki 250 with the bracket. That boat is really going to skoot with that setup.

[z-drive]

full transom... a nice upgrade for sure. nevermind the 4 stroke! i am going to miss the sound of mine.

[Go Fish]

The boat is looking a little naked these days. Getting the old motor off turned out to be a non-issue. The hardest part was getting it bolted to the motor stand. The cutting will start this week. I'm really excited!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0132.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/SmokeyonStand.jpg

Special thanks to Dale for shagging his ass all the way out to my place to lend a hand in removing Old Smokey and to my buddy JAVIDANGLER for lending the motor stand/removal device.

[Albiemanmike]

Kev,
Are you cutting the whole transom out and replacing??? Or just doing the stuff you outlined in your first post??? If you are doing the whole transom what is the layup schedule/plans??? Wood?? Fiberglass??? Definitely a big job but will be soooo rewarding when complete.

[Go Fish]

Mike-

I'm doing a complete transom rebuild. It will be epoxy/glass over wood. I got some water weeping out the last time I cut a hole to mount something so I decided that I would just rip the whole damn thing out and start fresh. The plans are pretty complicated but I will keep posting here as I go through all of the steps...it is going to be SWEET when it's done.

I'm hoping to be in the water by the middle of May.

K

[Albiemanmike]

Sounds awesome. I have never undertaken such a big rebuild project with my boats. I did completely rebuild a Ford Ranger pickup with a Mustang 5.0 engine, tranny, 6" lift, etc. several years back which was an enormous project but was a ton of fun. Ton's O' money but very satisfying in the end. I sold it a couple of years ago for $4,000.00 but had over $10,000 into it. No biggie it's just money.............:brow

[e-sea-e]

so far so good kevin...hey, you need to change the pic of your boat in your sig line to show the cool mini T-Top its got now..

[FireFly]

Nice! Making a great boat even better. Can't wait to see the new pics.

[Go Fish]

The Stratos 2250 hull was available as a walk around, an open transom center console and a full transom CC with the motor on a bracket. Obviously, we're going for the latter in this project. This is a picture from the 1992 Stratos brocure showing the full transom design:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/stratosw-bracket.jpg

In my re-design, the transom cap will be slightly smaller than the production model freeing up another 3 or so inches at the stern. It will leave room for the trim tab and washdown pumps but not much else...mine won't have the transom mounted live well seen in the pic above. I'm pricing out brackets right now and will end up with a 4 or 5' platform (thats a 5 footer in the picture) on a flotation style bracket. Hopefully the extra bouyancy afforded by the flotation bracket will offset the weight of the heavier 4S motor. The boat likes to sit low at rest (low enough that waves astern would cause the lower cowling of the motor to go under water) so, like FinAddiction did on his boat, I decided to mount the bracket 5 inches higer and go with a 30" motor. That combined with the extra flotation from the bracket should keep the new motor high and dry.

I have prety much spent all winter thinking about this project, weighing the pros and cons of materials and techniques. What I've decided is that I will be true to the original construction with one caveat. The transom and other structural components will be cored with marine plywood but, rather than use typical vinyl ester resin and fiberglass for encapsulation, I'm going to use some fancy ass epoxy.

I know some people freak out about wood in boats these days but it is really hard, if not impossible, to beat the strength to weight ratio of laminated marine plywood. The wood cored transom on the boat is 18 years old and still strong. It has some water intrusion but it would be years before it NEEDS to be replaced.

The boat is going to be pretty cool and really fishable when she's finished.

[BigBoatDog]

Gofish
That is a great project! Just out of curiosity are you on the North Shore?
I have built a number of boats using epoxy/fiberglass and never had a problem as long as the wood is thoughoughly covered in epoxy. I would recommend Meranti plywood for the transom because it is a bit stronger and moisture resistant than other types. In the transom with quality epoxy you die before rot sets in. Recommend System Three over West Systems.
Keep posting progress pictures,
BBD

[Albiemanmike]

Kev,
How do you secure the new transom into the structure of the boat> I know there will be a lot of glassing in of components but how do you structurally install the new transom assembly??? Is there screws involved??? High glue??? I have never done anything this involved on a boat and am very curious as to how it is done.

[DaleH]

Recommend System Three over West Systems.

The plan is to use Raka epoxy from Larry, www.raka.com .

[Go Fish]

Mike-

I've got a pretty crafty plan for securing new structure to the existing structure. It will add about 18 lbs to the current stern weight but the new transom will be more a part of the boat than the old one and capable of holding much more weight than I plan to add. When you can't engineer for performance...over engineer..

Stay tuned for details and pics...

[Albiemanmike]

You engineering types kill me............:brow
Please do take pics of the new M1A1 structuring as I can't wait to see what you have come up with. By the way I will email you pics of the new (old) radar mount on my boat as soon as I get it completed. I was not able to use the setup the way you had it as i could not fit your console grab rail without replacing my windshield (expensive) so I am finagling it to use my existing windshield rail and some newly crafted supports ala the Go Fish technique (Thanks for the great idea) bracing it on both sides of the windshield rail and front and back of the rail to the mount. I don't think it is going to look as good as yours did but I will have additional height for the radome and still have the fold down functionality. Just trying to find a good system for quick disconnect at the brace locations, something I can hand tighten and loosen without tools but still be rigid. I found some custom thumb screws in 1/4 x 20 at McMaster and I am going to get some and see if they work.

[dcobbett]

Go-Fish,

A suggestion based on input I received when I redid the transom on my SeaCraft a couple of years ago: plan your cut s so that you minimize inside corners. They are a royal PIA to feather and sand out during the reconstruction. Much easier to work flats or outside corners.

[Chuckster]

Kev,

Remember me telling you this very same thing this past summer?

:rolleyes:

[DaleH]

Just trying to find a good system for quick disconnect at the brace locations, something I can hand tighten and loosen without tools but still be rigid.
That combination "to me", without seeing it, wouldn't be possible. I think I'd opt for a screw-thread to tighten , but would back it up with another support, using a solid SS through-bolt or pin (neither threaded) to secure it and that used a thin-wire SS ring (think a key chain ring) as a 'cotter-type pin' to secure it in place.

That pin would be a back-up "Oh S$#t!" pin, that might save your noggin :eek: , in case the threaded one backed off in the waves.

[Go Fish]

Saws-all's and angle grinders are a beautiful things. I made more dust today than I have in a long time. The project is comming along:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/left.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/rightcopy.jpg

[dcobbett]

Go Fish,

Just curious, those thin, parallel strips on edge running along the bottom parallel to the hull's centerline (in your last two photograp0hs), are they stringers or just gussets?

[e-sea-e]

looking good kevin!

[Go Fish]

dcorbett-

Those are the stringers. They're 3/4" marine ply glassed into the dull and deck. The new support for the upgraded transom will work off of them to add a solid foundation for the new motor.

[DaleH]

How were the existing old stringers? Did you drill or cut into any of them to check for water intrusion? They look pretty darn good in your picture!

[Go Fish]

D-

In the second picture you can see where I ground the glass off the top of the stern end of the inboard stringer. It is bone dry and solid. I stuck a screwdriver into any exposed wood at limber holes or cut outs and it was all nice and solid as well.

I think my water intrusion problem happened from the outside inward and only soaked out the transom. The stringers seem fine.

[Go Fish]

Today was sort of a turning point for me. First off I completely changed my aproach to this rebuild. I was originally going to do an outside-in rebuild meaning that I would cut the skin off of the outer transom to expose the wood and dig it out. Well...now I'm doing an inside out because of the way the transom was laid up originally:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/TransomCrosssection.jpg

The right hand side of that laminate structure in the picture above is the outer transom and it is about 1/2 inch thick glass. I now know why this boat is so freaking heavy for her size. As I suspected the core is two layers of 3/4 inch ply. That is NOT going to be fun to get out of there.

The first thing I did was cut the stringers back so I could get at the work a bit easier and to make room for the addition of the new transom core when it comes time. To get the inner skin off I scored the glass in strips and used a pry bar to work it loose:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/Stripgone.jpg

The glass skin came off pretty easily...mostly because the wood is as wet as a Lab on a duck hunt and beginning to rot.

I made short work of the rest of the inner skin and as you can see, it is time to replace this core material. It looks like only the first layer of the ply is beginning to rot but it was only a matter of time before it it pulled away from the glass skin. At that point the integrity of the laminate would have been lost.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/Leftcleaned.jpg

On a happy note, the stringers are good to go:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/CutStringer.jpg

The next step is to hack all that wet wood out. I'm going to try and find something for my grinder that will cut wood quickly so I can dice it up like I did the skin and take it out in chunks. If anyone has any ideas please speak up.

[loon]

Boy are you flying! You'll end up much happier with the inside out; it's stronger and being sure of the stringers is key. Your transom is nowhere near the mulch-fest many are.

A good tool for removing the plywood, after some shallow scoring, is a long handled spud (ice-fishing chisel).

[DaleH]

Ouch ... I wudda left the existing stringers as long as original, if could be ...

Scarfing that ain't gonna be fun and I'd go for a 7:1 minimum.

[Go Fish]

No scarfing needed.

I have a plan.

The new stringers portions addressing the transom and the cut back old stringers will be a copletely different animal...if you ever checked your messages you would already know what I'm thinking.

[z-drive]

i'm thinking kind of like an ice scraper, or wide chisel would work. i used a wide-a$$ chisel to remove old balsa core from a hatch i rebuilt. it may be tough to stomach but a circular saw with the depth set right would do well at "scoring" the wood.

for the grinder, they make "soft" disks you can put on 3-4 thick that are probably in the vicinity of 20 grit sandpaper. they're usually dark red and they will eat through almost anything in a matter of seconds. like these:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1KYA2?cm_mmc=Google%20Base-_-Machining-_-Finishing%20Supplies-_-1KYA2

[DaleH]

No scarfing needed.

I have a plan.

I know ... I just wudda left them as close as possible to begin with ... always far easier to "cut off" a little bit more than it is to "add back on", your knee design notwithstanding.

[Go Fish]

I get what you're saying now.

I did leave them as long as I could. There were some 3-4" diameter rigging holes cut in the stringers (red arrows in the pic. below) . I made my cuts just forward of them (dashed lines)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/RiggingHoles.jpg

[FireFly]

Looks like you caught that rotted transom just in time and she'll be better than new when you are finished.

[Go Fish]

Scratch what I said about the inside being dry. I got the first layer of ply off the stern this evening and it was good and soaked. There was plenty of black wood to be found but thankfully it all came out fairly easy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/onelayergone.jpg

I set the depth on my skill saw and diced it up into small sections and worked 'em loose with a pry bar. I couldn't get into the corners with the saw so I just put a little ass into the bar and got a little nutty on it. I'll have to go easy on the next layer so I don't bust up the transom glass.

It was good and soft down by the garboard drain:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/Rot.jpg

Well...it just wouldn't be a proper transom refurb thread without a picture of a pile of transom mulch:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/Transomchips.jpg

[z-drive]

by the lack of bottom paint i'm assuming that boat wasnt kept in the water.... i guess that doesn't matter though. just kind of surprised it had that kind of rot from sitting on a trailer with a knowledgable owner. you're way better off with the full transom and bracket for sure though, rotten transom as motivation or not.

[Go Fish]

There is another thread like this one where I covered the the removal of 10 years worth of bottom paint from this boat. It's on "the other site" though.

I'm the second owner. The first owner was a rich dude on Nantucket that bought the boat as a toy for his grand kids to play with. It spent it's life prior to me on a mooring.

The rot really isn't that bad considering it is a 17 year old hull. All of the ply was wet but the layers were still stuck tight. It would have gone another bunch of seasons before it started to get soft.

[Go Fish]

No boat progress this weekend but I had a good excuse.

Can you guess what I was doing instead of ripping rotted wood out of the boat?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/CapitolBlossoms.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/WashingtonMonument.jpg

We took a pilgramage through the rain to see the Toumb of the Unknown today but the camera stayed dry. The rain on my face masked the tears for those that have passed to make our lives better. They were all kids, fighting for our way of life.

Our walk through the FDR memorial was timely. It was a reminder of what our country has been through...in much more difficult times. This may be the great Recesssion but it pales in comparison to our not so distant past.

I'm in the middle of rebiulding a boat that I don't need. We are all worrying about our jobs and wether or not we will be able to go tuna fishing as much as we did last year.

Our great grand parents were trying to figure out how to feed our grand parents they were our age.

We need to quit our bitching and be thankful for what we have.

[Gadabout Guinea]

I'm thankful I don't have to rebuild my transom before the fishing starts! :brow

Did you go to the Vietnam Memorial? Incredibly moving, no matter how prepared you think you are for it! I only missed the draft by a couple of years so there was a slight bit of shame to go along with the gratitude & empathy I felt for all those young men & women whose names are on that wall! War sucks!

Do you have a bracket picked out for this project? Aluminum?

Chris

[Fish Farmer]

Can you guess what I was doing instead of ripping rotted wood out of the boat?
Will be there next week. Hopefully the blossoms will still be around.
Great thread, good luck with the outcome.

[Go Fish]

Chris -

We visited the Vietnam Memorial but payed our respects from a distance. It was incredibly crowded. I have visited it many times in the past and I agree, it is incredibly moving.

The aluminum bracket will look something like this:

http://www.custommarinewelding.com/images/product_engine_white.jpg

The folks at A&J Marine Welding will be doing it up custom for me complete with a little bigger flotation chamber to help the boat hold up the extra weight of the four stroke motor, the bracket and all the extra glass and wood that will be added to the transom.

I'll post a picture of the real think when it shows up in a couple of weeks.


FishFarmer- the peak for blossoms was this week but I bet they will still be around for next weekend.

[Go Fish]

I learned several very important things tonight:


Nearly dull wood chisels make great scrapers
No single hardware store in New England has enough 14 grit grinder discs for a transom refurb
You can make enough dust to fill a 5 gallon shop vac pretty quickly
I really need to get some ear plugs to go with the safety glasses and respirator


The wood is gone from the transom, and it came out alot more easily than I expected. There were some places where it was really well adhered to the transom glass and I actually took up a layer of the glass with the wood while I was prying. There was extra time left in the session tonight so I took on the task of grinding out the tabbing for the old inner transom skin. It is going to clean up nicely but I've still got alot of grinding ahead of me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/WoodGone.jpg

[Albiemanmike]

Wow Kev you went to DC and still got this far with it! You are smoking through this project.....look out tuna the GoFish is going to be ready to assault you sooner than later. I got all of my Furuno gear today WooHoo!!!!! Like Christmas in April!!! 1824C/NT radar, DFF1 broadband network sounder, BBWGPS ant. and Airmar M260 and an Azimuth 1000 for heading input. Now like you I have a bunch of serious work ahead of me. I got your old mount all mounted on the boat in such a way as I am fairly certain it will be a very solid mounting for the radome. I have 2 support legs going port/starboard from the main mast to my grabrail and then I made a new support that mounts to the front of the console and goes up and meets on the front of the main mast where the other 2 are, kind of a triangle arrangement. It is definitely not as convenient a setup for travelling as yours but still folds down and should work pretty good. I will shoot you some pics for engineering critique this weekend.

[JakeFF]

I have been following your progress...looking good so far. I myself would never even attempt what your doing so I am in awe...good luck. I can't wait to see how this ends up.

First time I went to the Viet Nam Memorial the hair stood up on the back of my neck..along with a few tears.

[Go Fish]

This was a big weekend for the project.

I took advantage of the junk weather on Saturday to make a trip out to the Woodery in Lunenberg to see a man about some marine plywood. The Woodery is one of those specialty lumber yards and they happen to stock all manner of very nice marine ply. I got a woodery just walking through the racks looking at the absolutely beautiful timber they have for sale.

It turns out the dude I spoke with spent his former life building boats on the North Shore so I picked his brain for a while and shared my plans for the hull refurb with him. He was a wealth of information and convinced me I was throwing money away using $110 a sheet marine ply for this project. It was his opinion, and now mine, that good quality exterior grade ply with waterproof glue is just fine for a laminated transom.

Rather than dropping $220 for two sheets of marile ply I spent $260 and got all of the lumber I'm going to need for the whole project.

Today started with a little touch up grinding to make sure I got all of the high spots evened out so the new transon core will lay flat. After I was satisfied with that I clamped and screwed a sheet of luan to the outside of the transom and transfered the shape of the stern to it. A little bit of measuring to reduce the size so it would fit inside the hull and a some zip-zip with the jig saw and I had a template for the transom core.

My hope was that it would fit into the hull in one piece but it was not to be. I scratched my head for a while and decided to cut it in two with the seams offset on the two pieces of 3/4" ply that now make up the core. The pictures below show it better than my words:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0220.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0219.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0221.jpg

The seams are offset by 2 feet so there will be plenty of support from the opposing piece of transom ply to give it strength. Additionally, the load is going to be distributed across the stern by the bracket. I think she'll hold together nicely.

Inside, the core will be siting in a nice bed of adhesive putty to take up the small gap left around the core:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0227.jpg

The whole thing will be painted with epoxy before assembly and then will get glassed into the hull and stringers.

Next step will be to build the new stringer and floor support system. I'm pretty excited. This boat is going to be bad as hell when she's finished.

[JAVIDANGLER]

Hi Kev,
Just got your PM, not sure what happened. Anyway the transom job looks great. I had a freshwater boat that first the floor went and I did that job. Then the transom. It was only 5 years old for the floor and 7 years for the transom, and it was sent back to the factory for the rebuild. This was a boat that was always trailered. They did mine exactly as you described yours. I really didn't want to get into it. They required I removed the motor, thus the engine stand.

My boat is still sitting under the cover. I did buy a new battery and bottom paint yesterday... The fun begins soon.

Good Luck, If you need help let me know I almost go past your house every night on the way home from work..

[Go Fish]

It's been a while since my last update, primarily because my stupid "gainful employment" keeps getting in the way. Don't get me wrong, I am thankful to have a job that I love, but it always seems to get busy when I need it to fade into the background for a while.

I ordered the Raka epoxy and a bunch of glass last week. Larry Steves, the owner of Raka, is simply the balls. I spent at least 20 minutes on the phone with him getting tips on the project and good advice on what to buy. I highly recommend Raka and Larry.

Progress this weekend was tough. I built the stringer/deck support system and figuring out all the angles...with no reference...almost killed me. In a house there are no square corners or plumb walls but you can use a bubble level as a reference for everything. In the boat it is all uneven surfaces, curves, some compound angles...and a bubble level means nothing to a boat on a trailer.

I eyeballed a lot and cut more trial templates than I care to remember. Patience won out and I'm happy with the result:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0229.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/Stringer.jpg

The original stringers are 3/4" ply and so is the middle layer of my stringer upgrade. The outer layers are 1/2" ply. The new work is obviously over built, but there is no question in my mind that the transom will hold up to any punishment a 600+ pound motor 30" aft can dish out. I'm going to bevel the forward edges of the 1/2" pieces to make it easy to tab it into the existing stringers and cut an angle from the base of the rigging notch in the old stringers up and aft through the new work to make glassing that angle easier as well. Everything is going to get coated with epoxy before I lay up the glass.

The upright edges will provide support for the new inner transom bulkhead and afford plenty of structure to support the sweet new seat I picked up from Mr. Moore. Notice as well that the top and aft most portion of the top of the new work is set up to accept the ply that will back the transom cap.

I've got to figure out what I'm going to do with the outboard stringers. Building them up like this is really overkill but I need to get them back to the transom. It would be nice to have access through one hole to that portion of the bilge as well.

[DaleH]

Lookin' good Kevin. My only comment would be the 90-degree square cuts. Could you or should you have rounded them to avoid corners where shear stresses build-up?

Also, your outer-most knees could simply be an angle from high on the transom and down to the stringer, which would give a long ~45-degree angle for any 'pushing' moment.

I agree with the idea of fabbing in a thru-hole. What about limber holes through the bottom of the stringers? Some glass in PVC tubes cut in half the long way.

Are you also going to add any 2-part foam back there?

[Go Fish]

D-

The annotated picture below will answer most of your questions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/StringerAnotated.jpg?t=1240248860

The one 90 degree cut that will remain defines the transition from the deck to the inner transom bulkhead. It kinda has to be square.

I'm going to cut in some limber holes but there will be no foam back there.

[browndog]

I had the same thought as Dale. Do you have to run the deck that far back ? A 45 degree gusset between the arrow for the inner transom and deck supports would beef it up quite a bit.

[Go Fish]

I don't have to run the deck back that far but claiming that deck space was one of the main reasons for undertaking this project. I agree that adding more material near the thin part of the stringer "knee" would beef it up but I don't think it is going to be necessary.

The flotation bracket that is on the way is going to have the bulk of its mounting points below the level of the deck so most of the "pushing" moment is going to be in a vector that aligns with the stringers.

I was more concerned with the lever moment of the motor out on the bracket pulling on the top mounting locations and pushing on the bottom ones while bouncing down the highway. In my mind it is more important to impart extra vertical stiffness to the transom than it is to provide a big base for the motor to push against.

That being said, the pictures don't do the new work justice. If you saw it first hand you wouldn't be worried at all. It is WAAAAY over built.

[e-sea-e]

looking good kevin!!!

[JakeFF]

Looking great Kev....I give you a lot of credit.

[Go Fish]

All the lumber got a nice coat of epoxy tonight:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0240.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0241.jpg

Tomorrow is the big day. The transom core will be installed and get glassed into the hull.

[Go Fish]

All through this project I have been wishing for warmer weather so we could start laying up epoxy. Well...I got my wish today but is came through a little to strong. Dale came out to help in anticipation of getting a lot more done than we did. The rising temps made it impossible to keep a pot of epoxy alive long enough to get full use out of it. It would kick long before we could get it spread.

Before it got too hot we were able to get the transom core in place.

The inside of the remaining transom glass got a good coat of Cab-o-sil thickened epoxy.before we dropped the first two pieces of transom core in place. More thickened epoxy was plastered on the inside surface of the first layer of transom core before the second layer was dropped in place.

Prior to this step I cut 1/2 inch holes through the remaining transom glass and the new core pieces to allow bolts to be inserted and squeeze the whole thing together. There were big fender washers inside and outside I used extra timber to make sure the load applied by the bolts was spread out as evenly as it could be. Between the wood outside and the wood inside the transom glass complied and made a nice flat surface.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0245.jpg

Dale went above and beyond to recover some slow hardener from his place and drive it half way back to me after driving out to me to help with the lay up in the first place. Hopefully this will help me to be productive tomorrow and get the glass layed up on the new core.

Thanks again Dale.

[soundownsam]

Looking good.

sam

[dcobbett]

I'm not seeing the images; just me, or are others having the same problem? When the thread started, I did see them. Using FF, latest version.

[north coast]

Must be your setup Dan, I can see them. nice work by the way.

[adson]

you can put that mixed epoxy container in a bath of ice water underneath.
that will help it last longer before it kicks.
just make sure you spread it well the first time.

on that stringer to transom support you could double up the thinnest part.
just a piece big enough to spread the stress away form that one area.

[Go Fish]

I have no clue why I got disappointed that Dale and I were not able to get farther than we did yesterday. We accomplished a very important job and there was no way in hell we were going to get the first layer of glass up. There were way too many little jobs that had to happen first that required their own curing time not to mention the fact that one of the jobs was to fill all of the holes left behind by the bolts that were used to keep the core and outside transom wall in contact while it cured.

After yesterday's lesson on the temperature dependence of first order chemical reactions I had a better plan for today. I got up early (while it was still relatively cool) got going on filling the gap between the new core and the hull with Cab-o-sil thickened epoxy. I worked with batches that were a quarter the size of yesterdays batches and didn't waste a drop of epoxy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0248.jpg

Next I went after all of the 1/2 inch holes in the new work and the associated old work. 1/2 inch dowels were cut, dipped in epoxy and slid into the holes so that they were just shy of flush on the outside of the boat. The gap was left so I can grind back the exterior glass and fill and fair the hole on the outside of the transom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0252.jpg

By the time I finished these little jobs up it was close to 75 degrees and a lot warmer under the boat cover. It was time to take a break:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0250.jpg

My lovely wife, who is 6 months pregnant, was dieing to go fishing. We loaded up the little jon boat and floated the mighty Assabet through town. The river was on fire. There was a huge caddis and mayfly hatch and the fish were taking just about anything offered. The ticket for Shannon was a 1/16th oz. white Rooster tail and I was killing them on a soft hackle caddis emerger fished on the swing. These were the mayflies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0251.jpg

These were the fish:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0249.jpg

Trout would have been nice but the little carp/chub looking things were a blast. We pulled over about 1/2 way through the float to grab an ice cream at the Dairy Joy on main street to add icing to this particular slice of cake. I highly recommend getting a wife that is as cool as mine.

After it cooled down I set back into the project. In order to get a nice transition between the transom and hull for the new glass I added a fillet in at the junction. The cab-o-sil thickened epoxy was spread with the curved side of a plastic spoon:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0264.jpg

This week I hope to start laying the glass.

[Jim Miller]

Hendrickson Mayfly.
Nice write up Kevin....way to multi task! :-%

[BigBoatDog]

Go Fish,
great work on the transom. Just curious if the epoxy you use blushes when it dries? Might also want to try slow hardener when it begins to heat up.
Hope the baby is a flyfisher.
BBD

[jackduckhunter]

Hendrickson Mayfly.
Nice write up Kevin....way to multi task! :-%

Only two tails, Hendricksons have 3, I'm thinking Quill Gordon? A bit tougher to tell in the spinner stage though.

[Go Fish]

BBD -

I've got some slow hardner on the way. It should show up just in time for the temps to cool off. According to Larry @ Raka, this particular version of epoxy does not blush. As a precaution I'm giving it a quick sanding before applying coats over stuff that has cured and whenever possible I'm applying the second coat after the first has started to set up.

You other guys can keep trying to classify that bug...I'm going to tie on an appropriately sized Adams and go catch some fish...;)

[jackduckhunter]

Go Fish: Adams will get you what you want 99% of the time so you're right on the money there!!

Very nice job you've got going there. Quite an undertaking and it's pretty cool to see it in progress. Best of luck with the project. Can't wait to see the glory pictures of some fish on the deck after it's completed! :brow

[Albiemanmike]

I love this CHIT!!!! You go Kevin it looks awesome and you are doing a pro job on it I can't wait for the next installment. I just had to order a new trim and tilt control relay for the Honda. First big part I have ever had to replace in over 1700 hrs. of use. I found it online for $199.00 so I was pretty happy that it wasn't going to cost me hundreds.

[Tarpon41]

AM:

I noted you used cabo as a filler with your epoxy around the plywood trans...why not 1/4 glass strands/chop/or milled...would not that be stronger ?

[soundownsam]

You want a nice smooth fillet around the transom and a paste with cabo will do betterthan chopped strand. Personally I like my putty to be easy to work with and my cloth to be the structure. Using chopped strand makes a messy putty and the glass is harder to lay over it.

sam

[Go Fish]

Sam is right on.

Chopped or milled glass fiber makes a putty with a higher cured tensile strength than a cab-o-sil putty but glass filled putty is a total and complete PITA to work with. It spreads very poorly. In addition, milled glass is just a filler. It does little to thicken the putty until you reach concentrations of glass in epoxy that actually make a weaker finished material. So, if you have the right amount of milled glass you have a mixture that will sag before it cures

From what I read, most folks will use a thixotropic material like cab-o-sil or wood flower in conjunction with milled glass. Milled glass is there for strength and the thixotropic is there to firm up the mix. Even doing this you end up with a finished material that has a zillion little glass hairs sticking out of it that need to be knocked down before you can do the next coat.

Cab-o-sil putty isn't as strong in tensile but some of my reading suggests it is better in compression. The bottom line is it is just a hell of a lot easier to work with.

[soundownsam]

One note that might be helpful on putty. Based on your comment it sounds as though you are letting the fillet set up and then laying lass over it. I always mix my fillet material a little slower than my resin for actually laying glass. This will allow you to have the fillet still workable when the glass goes on and you can roll it out to have zero air bubbles.

I find that working on top of a fillet that is set up always has high spots that will hold the glass up and get dry spots or air bubbles when rolled.

sam

[BigBoatDog]

It's real cheap 5lbs 5$. provides smooth working material, and if real desperate you can sift your saw dust. The nominal increase in strength using glass fiber isn't worth the itching.
Everything else, what Soundownsam says.
BBD

[DaleH]

Wood Flour: It's real cheap 5lbs 5$, provides smooth working material, and if real desperate you can sift your saw dust.

That's what Larry (from Raka Epoxy) recommended I use as a filler (and was what I used) when I glassed in a new transom on my 16' skiff project, shown as a DIY tutorial, click here. (http://reel-time.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66701) From my learnings, here's just a tidbit of comparisons/costs/benefits to the various epoxy fillers, but first a rule or two of epoxy fillers, as per Larry, citing the gospel of fillers:

Rule #1: Fillers don't COST ... they PAY by giving you greater control of your epoxy's properties and increasing the volume of your epoxy at a generally cheaper cost.

Wood Flours: Good as a strong non-sagging epoxy thickener for wood-toned glues and fillets and can be mixed with fumed silica (cabosil) for a smoother paste. ~$5/lb

Fumed Silica (Cabosil or Aerosil): Most commonly used filler, makes a very smooth, strong non-sagging putty and is often added to other fillers to improve their properties. ~$20/lb

Cotton Fibers, Fine-Milled: An epoxy thickener for strength and gap filling properties and to makes glues with good wetting ability. < $9/lb

Microscopic Glass Bubbles: High quality light fairing filler that sands easily. It has moderate strength and good waterproofness. It can significantly lower your epoxy cost as it will expand your epoxy volume as you mix it with the resin. ~$9/lb

Phenolic Micro Balloons: Excellent light-weight filler for putties with superior feather edge-sanding qualities. They sand easier & smoother and have better sag resistant properties than the glass bubbles. ~$20/lb

Milled (Fiberglass) Fiber: A dense very high strength powdered fiberglass filler of 1/32" length. For high tensile strength putties and gap filling. < $5/lb

Chopped Glass Strand: Fiberglass filler of 1/4" length for a very high strength rough mixture for large gap filling. Economical! (DH note, this is what Sea Ox boats were made of, no layup, simply shot into the boat mold with an appropriately named "chopper gun") < $5/lb

Then there are other specialty fillers like talc or graphite used to impart a pigment or tone to the finished color of the epoxy.

Rule #2: Use the appropriate filler for YOUR particular need and/or application ...

[BigBoatDog]

Well dale,I got the price wrong on the wood flour. Main reason for use- wood flour is cheap and it is what the designer recommends on the boats I build. You can also use bead blast media, just don' try to sand it. I agree with both rules, use what is typically specified for the your application.
BBD

[Go Fish]

I'm going on record and saying that I suck at laying up large pieces of fiberglass. Everything turned out OK but it took me a loooooong time to get the pieces to lay flat and take the corners they needed to take.

Up until today the biggest pieces of glass that I have dealt with were 8" x 30" strips of 9 oz. biaxial tape. For this task I was messing around with much larger chunks of 25 oz 1708 biaxial with mat...it was a whole different animal.

I started the job by stapling the two layers of fabric to the transom to make sure they would fit and to score them where I thought it would help them conform to difficult shapes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0266.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0268.jpg

My initial thinking was to wet a whole piece out, roll it around a tube and then lay it in the transom by unrolling it. I tried it with a dry piece and quickly learned that there was no way in hell one guy was going to get that big a piece of sticky glass fabric to behave itself under those conditions. Instead I decided to cut the two layers into three pieces and stagger the seams. Good thing too...even the third-of-a-transom pieces were a bear.

There are no pics in between wetting and lay-up so you'll have to settle for words with regard to the interim portion.

I cleaned the work area and only had the epoxy and tools I needed out in the open. My temporary wetting table was two saw horses two 2X4's and a sheet of plywood covered with a plastic drop cloth. The pieces of glass were spread out, mat side down, and the epoxy was mixed. I poured the epoxy straight onto the glass and spread it with a cheap 6" rubber squeegee. It worked slick but the glass was slow to take the epoxy. The mat side was not getting saturated.

More epoxy got mixed and I jumped into the boat and spread it with the squeegee over the surface that was going to get the mat side of the glass.

Then came the ordeal of aligning, readjusting, rolling, readjusting, swearing and rubbing additional epoxy into stubborn areas with my (properly gloved) fingers until I got all of the bubbles out of the glass fabric...good thing the slow hardener showed up earlier this week. If you ever do something like this spend the money on a grooved laminating roller. There is no substitute for this essential tool.

After the first layer was in I had dinner with Shannon and waited for the work to begin to set. Once it was still tacky but not moving I went after the second layer. the same way I did the first. It was 2" bigger than the first layer so it was just a little bit more fun to work with.

In spite of my lack of experience, which I'm sure would make this go alot more easily, It turned out just fine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0272.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0274.jpg

Tomorrow I'm going to try and get the stringer/deck support syatem in place.

[DaleH]

Awwwwwhhhhhh ... and to think I MISSED the fun ;) !

[Go Fish]

The stringer/deck support system went in yesterday. I would have posted earlier but I went fishing today so I had to pay attention on the home front. Harmony is much better than discord.

You'll remember back a few posts where I described the situation: The original stringers are 3/4 inch ply glassed and tabbed into the hull. I beefed it up by replacing the 3/4 inch ply that was cut out to get the transom in and adding 2 pieces of 1/2 inch on either side of it. These are shots of the old stringer and the new 3/4 inch piece fitting to it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0276.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0277.jpg

I buttered up all the surfaces mating surfaces with cab-o-sil thickened epoxy and made them tight with stainless self tapping "drywall" screws. the gaps between the old work and new work were filled with more of the same thickened epoxy before adding the second sheet of 1/2 inch ply. After adding an epoxy fillet the finished product looks like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0281.jpg

The minor stringers got a similar treatment. Here's the overview shot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0279.jpg

I have to knock down all the high spots and tab the stringers in as well as get some epoxy into the edges of the wood that has not seen any yet.

I'm going to start building the gunnel cap this week.

[Albiemanmike]

Lookin' Good Kev! But then again I have no clue when it comes to fiberglass...............:confused: I have been attempting to do some very minor gelcoat repairs and that is proving to be more complicated than I thought but I will soldier on and keep at it.

[Go Fish]

I've been stagnating lately. It took a friend to point out "analysis paralysis". Because I am a nerd I like to try and predict the outcome before I undertake the task. That thinking stalled my progress dramatically.

Today I got over it.

I made some bad measurements but the grinder took care of that. I'm running out of epoxy but a phone call took care of that. It can all be fixed. I just needed to get to work.

Today was building the gunnel cap over the old cut out.

The new transom core was a bit less than 1/2 an inch shy of the gel coat on the old transom. rather than **** a bunch of money and time into glassing it out I decided to shim it out with some epoxied in 3/8" ply. The old transom was ground back in anticipation of new glass and the wood was fixed with thickened epoxy and some self tapping screws.

This picture is after the fact but it shows how the old transom was ground back:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0294.jpg

With the shims in place I set to the gunnel cap.

Before I started laying up the new work I made room for the new pieces by removing a few inches of the core from the existing gunnel cap so the new piece that would span the gap between the two sides of the old notch transom would have some purchase on the existing glass. The joints were sloppy because the demolition was sloppy so there was a lot of putty involved. This is a look from the underside after all was said and done:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0296.jpg

The new stuff was 1/2" ply set under the old glass so there was a big gap between the new surface and the old surface. I made up the bulk of the difference with thin plywood. the finished product looks like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0293.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0295.jpg

The new surfaces are about a layer of glass thickness shy of the old surfaces. The next step is to lay the glass and make them flush.

[mendy]

Wow. Impressive stuff, Kev.

[CMP]

Pretty work, but I gotta tell ya, I am SOOOO glad I don't have a big project this year :brow ...

CMP

[browndog]

Very nice, the cap looks good.

[Go Fish]

Here's the new work with glass on it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0306.jpg

It was a humongous pain in the ass to get these pieces of glass to wet out. I am questioning my choice of 1708 as the backbone of this rebuild.

It has several pluses including excellent strength from the biaxial fibers and additional strength, water barrier and adhesion properties afforded by the mat. It is a nice intermediate weight and, if one prepares transitions correctly, it takes corners really well.

But, I think the big problem is that 1708 was designed to be used with polyester resin. The binder in the mat dissolves in the presence of polyester resin and (I think) wets out quite easily. Epoxy, in spite of it's laundry list of superior properties, does not wet mat out worth a damn.

It was 10 degrees cooler today than the last time I worked with 1708 and it was a lot harder to get epoxy into the mat...but the strand wet out just fine. I applied epoxy to the glass on my prep table by moving it around with a squeegee and allowing it to soak in (strand side up, mat side down so I didn't fuzz up the mat with the squeegee). The surfaces on the boat to which it was applied got a coat of epoxy to help with wetting out the mat.

I still had to dip my fingers into epoxy and rub the epoxy into large portions of the glass that were stubborn to wet after the glass was set in place.

There is no way it should be this difficult. I have to believe there is a better choice of material. If any of you folks with boat building experience have some wisdom to pass on I would love to hear it.

[soundownsam]

Try laying a layer of mat and wetting it out fully before putting down the 1708. The resin in the mat will help wet the bi-ax.

sam

[z-drive]

that sounds about right. in my limited experience when it came to structural stuff, no matter what kind of fiber was used, we always would use multiple layers. even one layer underneath of mat like sam said can hold a ton of resin and help wet out the next layer. then another layer of mat on top really helped in fairing it all together without cutting the "structural" layer. building up a layer of mat under also helped the heavy fiber transition corners. so theres a question...are the any fiberglass materials designed to be used with exclusively with epoxy?

looks good though. not a project i would have had the balls to do on my own boat.

[Tarpon41]

GF:

The major/minor work I did was transom raise of old 13 whaler to 20" and 18 Hydra CC Kevlar.
But the previous posts about layering is what I was told to do and particularly with epoxy resin. I cannot recall from your previous posts but do you have a set of resin rollers either hard nylon or aluminum in various sizes ?? Particularly the corner rollers in various sizes for radii differences. For working in the epoxy resin after spreading but they are a pain in ass to clean but when I used epoxy that's what worked for me. But in heavier woven stuff it still was a pain when using epoxy as opposed to either poly or vynil(sp) ester so I went back to lighter weight cloth and layered. I f....up my first try with biaxe/matt fabric with epoxy. Where I got my resins and cloth/matt and rollers was a mfg company in Indy from seats to custom canoes to molds to winglets. I borrowed one of his metal acetone containers that he used to hang the rollers in during the day when in use.So I didn't have to clean after every mix. Used plenty of acetone but the rollers made it easier.

[Tarpon41]

Forgot to add...roll only woven not matt....rolling matt you'll pickup the strands...at least I did...

[soundownsam]

There is cloth designed to be used with epoxy. If you are using cloth that is meant for ploy or vinylester the finish will blush instead of staying clear.

Sam

[Go Fish]

The fabric I'm using is definitely "approved for use" with epoxy, and I'm using laminating rollers. It would be impossible to get this stuff to lay down without them.

1708 is a 17 oz/square yard 45 degree biaxial stitched to an 8 oz. layer of mat. I'm laying it out for wetting with the mat side down on the prep table and dumping epoxy onto the biaxial side and working it in with a squeegee. The biaxial portion takes up epoxy like a dream but it is really tough to get it to continue through the mat layer and wet it out as well.

Working from the mat side to spread the epoxy is tough because the fibers of the mat pull out easily and make a huge mess.

I have to believe I'm missing something in the wet-out prep.

[Go Fish]

I didn't take any pictures tonight in spite of significant progress. It wasn't very exciting. I just covered the interior wood with glass. I'll take some shots when it gets tabbed in and the additional structure gets installed.

I do have a technical update. 1708 wets out on the table much better when it is wet from the mat side. I avoided this approach initially because it requires that one is careful with the tool used to spread the epoxy poured out of the mixing pot. I still used a squeegee but the pressure applied to the glass was just enough to move the epoxy without disturbing the loosely bound mat fibers.

[Go Fish]

Well, I've been picking off all sorts of little jobs that need to be done before the deck and transom bulkhead go in. It is all the little stuff that I didn't plan for and has gotten me off schedule.

Here is a shot of one of the major stringers all tabbed in. You'll notice the limber hole at the bottom. The hole was drilled and coated with epoxy before I sealed a PVC tube in there with some thickened epoxy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0307.jpg

A closer shot of the complicated bit:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0310.jpg

The thing you should notice in the next shot is the bit of wood sticking out from the existing deck and the countersunk machine screws. The machine screws (and a smoke load of thickened epoxy) hold the wood tight to the existing structure. This is a shelf for the new deck:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0312.jpg

This is a teaser shot of the new deck core in place minus the hole for the hatch to he main part of the bilge...more to come...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0313.jpg

[DaleH]

Oohhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... whaddya say we add a livewell into the transom cap ;) ?

Lookin schweet!

[Go Fish]

Today was a dress rehearsal.

I spent my time grinding back and shimming up all the underlying structure to accept the rest of the parts that will make the cockpit whole. I learned that there is a half inch difference between starboard and port...it just made it more interesting. If anything, this job has made me much better at winging it. There were a lot of eyeball sorts of measurements made.

This is a shot after everything was fit. I think it is going to look good with a coat of finish on it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0323.jpg

Here's a shot to port:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0324.jpg

All of the new stuff is backed with tabs and will be glassed in to the existing structure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0326.jpg

I've got to get epoxy on the new lumber and rig the stern before I set everything in place.

[Albiemanmike]

AMAZING! Maybe you should go into the boat building biz??? I am going fishing waiting on the next installment!

[jackduckhunter]

Looking Good!

[Go Fish]

I did a $#!+ load of work today but I don't have much internet ready content to show for it. You'll recall that there were a bunch of holes drilled in the transom to make room for the bolts that were used to keep the new transom core and the hull in contact while the epoxy cured. I filled 'em today. In addition, I over drilled all of the holes for the stern hardware and filled them...and sanded and sanded.

One neat thing I picked up was a method to fill blind holes. Epoxy was thickened with cab-o-sil to the point where is was still flowing but it was sloooooow. This mix was loaded into a 10 ml syringe with a 16 gauge needle and the epoxy was shot into the holes from the bottom out. The epoxy was still moving so I had to put some blue tape over the holes to keep it from weeping out. It worked well.

The one picture worthy thing I did today was to build a detail in. I want the rub rail to span the now filled in gap. The important stuff was there but I needed to provide the appropriate structure to mount the grab rail:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0340.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0343.jpg

This was a full on PITA. I got it close by making some half ass measurements of the angles and cutting them out of a piece of poplar that I had in the garage. Once the rough shape was in place I went after it with the grinder to male the lines flow as best I could.

You probably noticed I laid up some fairing compound on the exterior stern work. I tried to sand it but it needs more time to cure.

I figured out were the mount the devices on the stern so I'm full steam ahead on getting the interior work fixed in.

[DaleH]

Lookin' GREAT Kevin! I might have ~1/4-gallon 2-part epoxy primer left over if you need it to cover the bilge/inside transom area before top-coating. You could use Bilgecoat down below, it's a good hard durable and gloss finish that helps keep the bilge area clean.

[Go Fish]

The new bracket showed up today:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0349.jpg

Eli at A&J Marine did a nice job with my custom requests. After I convinced him that I measured the transom angle right (it is 20 degrees, quite a bit steeper than most) he began to listen to my ideas. I opted for a short 4 foot platform to save on weight and make dealing with fish at the corners easier. Additionally I wanted a spot where I can still deploy big bars without leaning way out over the gunnel. The other thing I asked for was for him to maximize the volume of the flotation chamber to help adjust the attitude of the boat with the additional weight of the new four stroke and the extra structure from the transom job. He was able to blow up the volume of the chamber a bit and still keep the nice lines that led me to choose his work in the first place.

Three questions: How many fasteners are there on the typical bracket install? What is the spacing of the fasteners? What size are the fasteners?

[DaleH]

Three questions: How many fasteners are there on the typical bracket install? What is the spacing of the fasteners? What size are the fasteners?
See below, most brackets use bolt hardware equally spaced around the perimeter.

http://www.stainlessmarine.com/images/fs127907700.jpg

I would have thought that Eli would have already done this with you and sent it pre-drilled. I'd do what I just did, and peruse other OB bracket makers on-line to see how they're configured. My big girl wears a bracket from Stainless Marine of Miami, so that's how I knew to look at their pictures ;) .

Most I've seen also use same size (1/2") as used to mount the outboard. You could get these in 316 from Go2Marine. I'd also use some backing plates on the inside. My bracket has large 3" wide by up to 2' long 1/4" thick 5086 aluminum alloy backing plates bridging the main bracket span. Just insulate the plate, if aluminum, from the SS fastener.

Remember, I still have ~6 of those 6" square 316L SS test coupons, 1/4" thick. You're welcome to them ... just use cobalt drills!

[Go Fish]

D-

I asked that he not drill the bracket so I could lay out the holes and avoid having a bolt hole where one of my stringer uprights is.

[Albiemanmike]

Boy laying out the drilling pattern for that is not going to be a picnic??? Is there a hole in it where the rigging can be run through to the motor?? If so how do you successfully keep water from intruding into the bilge from the rigging hole through the transom??? I would guess ahealthy dose of 5200 or similar adhesive sealant applied to the perimeter of the bracket would suffice. As far as hardware I would assume that 1/2" SS bolts w/Nylocs would be sufficient with that many holes drilled around the perimeter of course with suitable backing like Dale had mentioned. Templating the hole pattern looks like it could be a 2-3 man job as that thing is not light I am sure??? Looking good although I could not see the newest pics you posted Ithink you are getting pretty close Kevin.

[Albiemanmike]

Disregard my previous questions my website blocking here at the client site was preventing the pics from showing I have now remedied that problem. Nice bracket!!! Good luck with the install and looking forward to the next installment.

[DaleH]

D-

I asked that he not drill the bracket so I could lay out the holes and avoid having a bolt hole where one of my stringer uprights is.

Yes, I know that quite well, but more so I hope his and your planning left you adequate space left-to-right on the spacing of his vertical supports, as it only looks like you have a < 3" width to drill into. My point was you're locked into his width of the verticals, less you gave him dimensions to say outside of. You'll have issues if those verticals are anywhere near your knees ... you won't get a good catch if out (actually 'in') on the inner edge and you won't get a bolt or washer in at all, if too far 'out' where the bracket takes the corner to the rear.

See? I duz nose what's I'm talkin 'bout ... eyez jist kan't spelt it ;)

[ken70ss396]

Nice work! I've been following this post with great interest.Just a suggestion,Could you make a wood (1/2 inch plywood) template shaped like the bracket mounting area. Then space and drill 1/2 inch holes in it where you need them. Position it on the transom and use it as a drill jig for the through holes in the transom,and then clamp it to the bracket and use it to transfer the hole pattern to the bracket.With a little careful measuring you can make sure the holes won't hit the uprights. Then use it to transfer holes to backing plates.All the holes should line up and your ready to mount it and you only have to lift that bracket up when it's ready to install.
Don't forget room for washers or backing plates,Yes Dale knows his stuff!

[Albiemanmike]

Nice work! I've been following this post with great interest.Just a suggestion,Could you make a wood (1/2 inch plywood) template shaped like the bracket mounting area. Then space and drill 1/2 inch holes in it where you need them. Position it on the transom and use it as a drill jig for the through holes in the transom,and then clamp it to the bracket and use it to transfer the hole pattern to the bracket.With a little careful measuring you can make sure the holes won't hit the uprights. Then use it to transfer holes to backing plates.All the holes should line up and your ready to mount it and you only have to lift that bracket up when it's ready to install.
Don't forget room for washers or backing plates,Yes Dale knows his stuff!


That is a very ingenious idea something I would not have thought of until after I screwed it up...............:)

[Go Fish]

Thanks for the props and the tip, Ken...but I'm one step ahead of you.

The template is already cut :brow

I used a piece of 1/4" luan instead of 1/2" ply. It is much easier to cut and I can keep it in place on the stern with some blue tape.

I have used luan for all of the templates that I've cut for this project...and there have been many. It works great.

[z-drive]

nice work as usual. you have no idea how happy you'll be with a nice big full transom --127-3-

have you thought about adding any additional tankage back there since the deck is partially up? sounds like a great time to add a small freshwater tank or another 20 gallons of fuel to get home with.

[Go Fish]

Z-

That hull likest to sit with the stern a bit low in the water to begin with so through this whole project I have been paying attention to how much additional weight I'm adding to the ass end. There is a ton of great stuff that I could do with the extra space below the deck and behind the transom bulkhead but all of it means more mass astern.

I laid the deck and transom bulkhead out so it would be relatively easy to cut pieces out to add things later. After I get the motor on and see how she rides with the new weight back there I'll consider adding stuff like tanks.

Probably not extra fuel though. She's got a 100 gallon main tank already. With the old stink bomb back there I was averaging 15 GPH at 28 knots which gave around a 200 mile range to a dry tank. The new 4 stroke should get me about a 50% increase in fuel economy and bump that to dry tank range to about 300 miles. That's more than enough for a little day boat.

[MacCTD]

What new 4 stroke did you go with?

[Go Fish]

not new...but close enough...2005 Suzuki 250 with a mere 315 hours on her.

[marlinslayer]

That bracket is gonna look sick hang'n off the back. Sweet job Kevin!

[Go Fish]

Progress this weekend was a little stunted because I had to travel to MI for a baby shower with our extended families. I hopped a retun flight at 6:25 this morning and was working on the boat.

The last thing I did before leaving was to fill in the last of the low spots on the traqnsom exterior. Some quick work with the fairing board and some 220 grit and I was reasonably happy with the result. I'm running out of time so I left it alone and rollered some gel coat on it after a good soap and water wash and wipe with acetone:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSC_0292.jpg

The gel coat I have on hand has parafin in it so I'll have to sand that down with 220 before I get the second coat on. I should be on to the finishing steps after that.

After a quick trip to Worst Marine to pick up a through hull and a tube of 5200, I was able to get all of the stern hardware in place that needed to go in before I set the deck, transom bulkhead and liner parts. I owe a special thanks to Dennis (marlinslayer) for lending an extra set of hands.

Once that was done I glued and screwed the interior parts in with cab-o-sil thickened epoxy and countersunk stainless flat heads. The last thing I was able to work in was laying a thickened epoxy fillet in the corners made by the new work.

I'll shoot some pictures of the inside after I get teh glass on it.

I'm in the home stretch now.

[marlinslayer]

Following this via the web does NOT do this project justice. The first hand visual/tour I got today proved that. All the layouts , custom setup, and attention to detail was very impressive. This is something you should be very proud of.

[z-drive]

smooooooooooth. i could look to previous posts but i'm too lazy now--- did you make/making a backing plate/backing plates for the bracket or just using big old washers? you engineer types probably know the advantages/disadvantages of each way...if so i'd be curious to hear.

as a side note... for those who go through 5200 like water (me), you can usually snag it at home creepo for about $10, usually in the adhesive section rather than the caulking section. kind of a waste of time though if its not convenient. or just make west price match it for less than half their price...they get angry at me for that.

[soundownsam]

Excellent work.

sam

[Go Fish]

Major setback. :(

I think that cold snap we had sunday night killed the gel coat I put up. After spending yesterday at or above 70 degrees it was still not set up. At sundown sunday night it was just barely tacky and when I got home from work today it was the same.

I spent my evening scraping it off and washing the stern down with acetone to get back to where I was yesterday. Even if more time would have gotten it to cure, there is no way my head would have let me have any confidence in it.

I did make an interesting observation and subsequent experiment that will hopefully allow me to claim I got a little bit of value out of this failure:

While scraping I noticed that the gelcoat over the epoxied areas was less cured than the gelcoat that was over the old gelcoat. As near as I can guess, my attempts to get the residual amines off the surface of the epoxy failed.

Amines are a byproduct of the epoxy curing process and they are more prevalent at the surface when epoxy is cured in humid conditions...like during the rain we have been having lately. The "Amine Blush" kills gelcoat by terminating the cross linking reaction (initiated by the addition of hardener) that turns the liquid polyester gelcoat resin into a solid. Contrary to the popular belief that you cannot put gelcoat over epoxy, if one removes the amines from the surface of the epoxy, gelcoat sticks just fine.

Amines are soluble in water so a good scrubbing with soapy water is all you need. Apparently I did not scrub enough.

I was questioning whether or not my gelcoat and/or hardener were somehow "expired". I popped the plug of left over gelcoat out of the mixing pot and it was hard as a rock. Confined in the mixing pot in a decent volume, it probably made enough of its own heat to cure while the temps were low last night (and it was in the garage and not out in the driveway). Conclusion: The materials are not at fault.

Now for the experiment.

After I got all of the junk removed from the hull I made 3 test areas:



Area 1: Acetone cleaned epoxy fairing compound Area 2: Acetone cleaned epoxy fairing compound that had the crap scrubbed out of it with soapy water Area 3: Acetone cleaned old gelcoat


The three areas got painted with gelcoat from the same pot within seconds of each other. When I last checked, Area 1 was still very tacky. The other two areas were much less tacky.

I'll report the results when I get back from work tonight.

[Go Fish]

The experiment panned out. Area 2 held epoxy as well as area 3. Area 1 was noticeably softer. In spite of success with the experiment I ordered a product from a company called System Three. The product is SB-112 it is a highly specialized epoxy product that is designed to be tie coat between general use epoxy and polyester top coats like gelcoat.

I'll be sure to report how it works.

[soundownsam]

I bet you didn't know you were going to be doing a chemistry experiment when you started cuttnig up the deck.

sam

[Go Fish]

I have been making progress but it has slowed dramatically. I'm at a stage now where the work is short but the time spent waiting for epoxy to cure is long. Relatively warm overnights the last few days are helping a lot with cure time but it is still a waiting game.

The interior pieces have been glassed in and I've started on the fairing work (fairing is the part that is taking so long):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0374.jpg

There is a bit of flex to some of the deck so I will have to glass some stiffeners to the underside to keep the gel coat from cracking after it is applied.

Before the deck and transom bulkhead went in a couple of custom pieces were added.

This is a mounting bracket for my trim tab pump:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0376.jpg

It's previous mounting location required me to stick my head into a worthless little seat in the corner of the transom to see the fill level. Topping off the reservoir took a length of tube a funnel and a bunch of rags to clean up all of the spilled fluid. Now it will sit behind a nice big hatch on the starboard side with the fill port front and center.

This glassed in mounting pad removes the need to drill and screw into the transom core and will hold the washdown pump and raw water strainer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0377.jpg

Again, everything will be easily accessed but through a hatch on the port side. You can see the handle for the raw water pick-up seacock to the bottom right.

Similar thought was put into location and custom mounting hardware for the bilge pumps and waterproof electrical box for the aft mounted devices.

Because I'm spending so much time on the fairing work I'll share it with you in the hopes that the less experienced learn something and the more experienced teach me something. In the next few posts I'll take pictures of the port corner and describe what is going on. Here is what it looks like after the first application of fairing compound and the first sanding:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0379.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0378.jpg

My goal was to get the fairing compound down before the pot kicked and fill in the exposed weave and stitching. I found that it is easiest to just slap the first coat down and knock down the high spots with a 12" fairing sander. Because the sanded fairing compound appears lighter in color after sanding you can see exactly where to add more filler on the second pass. I also learned to not go crazy with the sander. It is alot easier to fill the low spots than it is to grind away the high ones.

[DaleH]

It is alot easier to fill the low spots than it is to grind away the high ones.
... which is pretty much the opposite when dealing with structural materials, e.g., metal or wood ... where the "add on" tools don't work as well nor as fast as the "cut off" tools. :brow Actually, that was Rule #2 in GE's machinist school I attended. Rule #1 was "Look carefully at your fingers ... they're attached ... they don't grow back!"

NICE work Kevin and your tutorial and lessons learned here is invaluable to the rest of us!

[e-sea-e]

kevin, how did you handle rebuilding the edge of the livewell where it meets the new decking?

If you want to go fishing with me and John next weekend let me know, I can probably get you on board. fishing been spectacular to say the least.

[e-sea-e]

Following this via the web does NOT do this project justice. The first hand visual/tour I got today proved that. All the layouts , custom setup, and attention to detail was very impressive. This is something you should be very proud of.

yeah, untill you see it in person you really cant get a feel for the scope of the work. Ive seen it in 3 different stages, Im amazed each time.

[Go Fish]

While the rest of the board was catching tuna and bass and watching overpriced center consoles sink I was messing around with the boat again. I'm ready for this project to be done.

This post is all about fairing...because that is all I have been doing. The last pictures I posted were of the interior port corner after the first application of fairing mix and a sanding with 100 grit. The following are after the second application of fairing compound and a sanding:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/P1010117.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/P1010119.jpg

The phenolic microbaloons were added to catalyzed epoxy until it was the consistency of dry wall compound. A 6" drywall knife was used to spread the mix. You can see from the pictures that there is still alot of filling to be done.

For the third pass I tried something new (to mee). Instead of mixing the compound until it wouldn't flow, I stopped just short of that. In a thin layer this mix stayed put but thicker layers would run.

Instead of a 6" knife I used a 14" knife and the thin mix went down easily:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0385.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0386.jpg

I thought it was pretty darn flat after that but the sander said otherwise:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0387.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0388.jpg

Tomorrow will be my last coat of fairing filler to get the last of the low spots

[Go Fish]

...did you make/making a backing plate/backing plates for the bracket or just using big old washers...

z-drive - I spent some time chatting with the shop that is going to hang the motor for me, specifically, Drew at Cape Ann Marine. His explanation of the relationship between the motor, bracket and boat convinced me that it is best to let him deal with mounting the bracket. I'll let you know what sort of backing hardware he chooses.


I bet you didn't know you were going to be doing a chemistry experiment when you started cuttnig up the deck.

Sam - I'm a chemist so it wasn't that much of a stretch...still I wish I didn't have to do it...especially scraping the failed coating off.

kevin, how did you handle rebuilding the edge of the livewell where it meets the new decking?

E - That is a thread all it's own. I'll try and shoot some pics that will help it make sense but it might be tough now that it is all covered up. It was a fairly creative fix for the problem though.

[z-drive]

z-drive - I spent some time chatting with the shop that is going to hang the motor for me, specifically, Drew at Cape Ann Marine. His explanation of the relationship between the motor, bracket and boat convinced me that it is best to let him deal with mounting the bracket. I'll let you know what sort of backing hardware he chooses.



Let me know when it gets up here, i'd love to take a look. those are good guys at cape ann, although we've had our little quarrels. probably some of the best there are when it comes to 'zukes.

[Go Fish]

The last time I posted progress we were on the second or third coat of fairing compound. Just to refresh your memory this is what it looked like:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0387.jpg

The nice thing about being patient and sanding with a proper fairing board is after you get far enough along the imperfections get smaller and smaller. this time through fairing compound was only targeted at the trouble spots:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0390.jpg

Each one of the darker spots was made by applying maximum pressure to the drywall knife used for the application. The goal was to fill the low spots and minimize the high spots.

[Go Fish]

The rain and relatively cold temps have hampered progress but I have kept busy re-installing the stern hardware. Hopefully wiring will be done tomorrow.

When i gave up on fairing this is what it looked like:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0393.jpg

Tonight, after the rain quit, I washed down the new work with soap and water, rinsed it, and, after letting it dry, Put up the epoxy barrier coat.

The System Three SB-112 went down easily after I started spreading it with a squeegee...the natural bristle brush was not up to the job.

More pics tomorrow

[Go Fish]

Sometimes being a rookie boat re-builder sucks. I've made some dumb mistakes and just laughed them off but this one really turned my crank.

You will recall a few posts ago that I decided to add another layer of epoxy that would make sure the gel coat layer will stick. I waited a week for all of the gray rainy weather to clear out before I spread the System Three SB-112. For whatever stupid reason, I decided this particular epoxy was special and would act like paint rather than epoxy. I spread it with a squeegee and it leveled like a dream. I touched up a few drips and walked away. Saturday morning I went to behold my magnificent work and found that it had sagged and run everywhere. I almost cried.

Saturday was spent flat sanding the new work...again...to knock down the high spots. I back filled with SB-112 fairing putty and sanded again:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0394.jpg

If you look close you can see where the fairing compound filled in the low spots made by the drips:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0395.jpg

The bright side of this F-up is that I am sure the general use epoxy is covered up with the specialized stuff. If it ever stops raining and being stupid humid I'll finally get the gelcoat laid up.

Holes for the deck drains were cut today. I made holes according to the specs for the parts and this was the result:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0398-1.jpg

Looking at it from deck level shows that the surface of the drain is way to high:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0399.jpg

I decided to recess the drain so it is nearly level with the deck. I hacked away at the fairing compound and glass with a grinding disc on my Dremel tool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0405.jpg

It is down to the wood now and I need a new attachment for the Dermel to get it a bit deeper and make the drain flush. I'll be sure to re-seal the wood before instalation.

Hopefully the gelcoat will go up this week and I can get the boat off to the shop to have the motor mounted...hopefully.

[Albiemanmike]

You will get there Kev. Into each life a little rain must fall but this is rediculous. I am sick of all the wet stuff and ready for some stable dry weather but the forecast ain't looking too pretty for the coming week ahead. I am crossing my fingers for you buddy.

[DaleH]

It is down to the wood now and I need a new attachment for the Dermel to get it a bit deeper and make the drain flush. I'll be sure to re-seal the wood before instalation.
Argghhhh, darn it Kevin, I have the plunge router attachment for my Dremel too ... could have given it to you on SAT ...

[Go Fish]

A lot of stuff has gone down since I last posted. Most of it has been re-rigging. the crappy weather has kept me from putting finish on the project.

A little more about finish: We all remember the post where I reported the results of my single data point test where I put gelcoat on three differently prepared portions of the hull. The conclusion was gelcoat sticks to properly prepared epoxy. Being safe, I applied specialized epoxy that is specifically designed to be a base for polyester based top coats.

I did some more tests and had top coat failures (they did not cure to a hard finish).

The geloat I am using is 4 years old. It has been properly stored but, as near as I can conclude, the time on shelf allowed the wax additive to settle out. The result is spotty curing...requiring scraping all of the finish off at one point.

I bought some more wax solution, added it to the old gelcoat in a ratio that is consistent with non-waxed gelcoat and went at it again.

The first coat, applied on the last sunny day in recent memory cured hard. It was sanded and wiped with acetone. Tonight I used a West Systems foam roller to apply the second coat. Remember this pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0406.jpg

The roller leaves a texture that will need to be sanded and polished:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0408.jpg

The hole in that last picture is a 1/2 inch in diameter. The new finish is thick enough to allow sanding and polishing.

[Go Fish]

Over the weekend I made the decision to forgo finish sanding and polishing the gelcoat in favor of getting the boat in the water for a couple of weekends before my new daughter shows up...I'll have plenty of time to do the cosmetic work after she's born but disappearing for a whole day to go fishing is going to be tough.

All of the stern hardware and thru-hulls were bedded with 3M 4200 and tightened up. The deck and transom bulkhead hatches were bedded with exterior grade silicone and screwed into place. Wiring to the pumps was re-run and got new tinned connectors and adhesive lined shrink wrap before being covered with split loom and zip-tied about every foot to the boat structure they were run along...I wish I had remembered to take some pictures.

Cape Ann is guessing a week to 10 days for the motor and bracket install so if all goes well I may actually get to go fishing over the Fourth weekend.

I'll be sure to post some pics as soon as I can.

[DaleH]

It was a humongous pain in the ass to get these pieces of glass to wet out. I am questioning my choice of 1708 as the backbone of this rebuild.

There is no way it should be this difficult. I have to believe there is a better choice of material. If any of you folks with boat building experience have some wisdom to pass on I would love to hear it.

Kevin:

Just read this (see below) in an article by Bruce Pfund, a noted marine composites expert. Here's his maritime CV:
*Over 30 years hands-on experience in marine and industrial coatings and composites, specializing in failure analysis and process control consulting.
*Particular expertise in the analysis of cored composite construction, water intrusion into cored construction, and the diagnosis of coatings and coating application defects.
*Technical Editor at Professional Boatbuilder magazine since it started in 1989.
*Developed and patented the "Smart Hammer" system for computerized tap testing of composites.

Bruce Pfund’s Specialties:
*Wet core diagnosis, tap testing, cored construction failures, vacuum bagging, osmotic blistering, delamination, taping and tabbing, impregnating machinery, expert witness testimony.

His web page is here, (http://www.bpspecialprojects.com/PDF%20FILES/2-index%20of%20pdf%20files.html) ... he has proved that cloth (in this case, biaxmat 1708) adheres to plywood much better in the long run if the coat of neat resin used to wet out the ply initially was allowed to just get tacky before wetting out and applying the cloth (for tabbing, in his example).

[Gadabout Guinea]

How is it going? Did you get your motor on? Fishing yet?

Chris

[Go Fish]

Chris-

The boat has been off to the motor installer for a while now and I think we are closing in on getting that done. Hopefully I'll sea trial her near the end of the week.

I'm getting a little antsy but I'd rather have it done right than have it done fast.

[Gadabout Guinea]

That's good news! As you can tell, I've been pretty fascinated with this project and look forward to seeing the finished product!! Probably not looking forward to it anywhere near as much you are!

Good luck!

[Albiemanmike]

Awesokme news Kev. Hope you get her wet this week. I can't wait to see her on the water!!!

[JakeFF]

Kevin..I have been having a hard time posting lately..but I have been following from the beginning..let me say..thanks for keeping us updated on this project of yours..and also say..you did a hell of a job, best of luck with her and the new motor....Bob H

[gf2020]

I saw it first! :)

What do I spy with my wandering eye as I travel north on Route 128 in Wakefield this evening?

A clean Stratos center console with a mini-top and a bracket mounted Suzuki traveling south down the highway.

It lives! :brow

[marlinslayer]

Well Kev I'm glad your aspiration of it's arrival Tuesday evening (per our conversation) was accurate. I had this picture of you pacing around the garage waiting for the call,with the Carly Simon song "anticipation" as a soundtrack.
Since the previous post'r spotted ya I assume you'll be putt'n her to the test Wednesday a.m. , Good Luck and enjoy!

Now, if Sunday could just get here..........

[Go Fish]

D - I got back too late from the sea trial to get her ready. I hope Thursday will work with the pregnant girl...you wanna go fishing?

Gordon - It Lives!!!

I got the boat back from Cape Ann Marine today. A week to ten days turned into 20 but who is counting. The work is nice but the time it took was quite a bit longer than I had foolishly hoped for.

My sea trial was spectacular after I got past the scare at the dock. I'm not used to the new control yet and could not find neutral for a bit. I worked it out and got the motor started...but at first I couldn't believe it. There was water shooting out of the tell tale but there was no sound coming from the motor. The tach indicated it was running. Very strange.

I cleared the bridge and rolled at fast idle into Gloucester Harbor and messed with the trim tabs and trim on the motor a bit to figure out where the balance was. Shortly after I dropped the hammer and almost $#!+ my pants.

The boat was on plane before I had a chance to start counting. I buried the throttle and messed with the trim on flat seas with no wind. With the motor roughly trimmed right and a bit of tab I got just north of 50 mph. The boat was light, half a tank of fuel, juts me and no gear. Once I learn how to trim her I bet I get that speed with a full load.

She is currently wearing a 16.5 x 20 three blade prop and does 25 mph @ 3500 RMP, 30 MPH @ 4000 RPM and 50+ @ 6500 RPM. I can afford a step up in pitch to improve cruise speed, it will cost me RPM at WOT and the associated zoom but it will be a very rare occasion that I can go 50+. I'm thinking she should be sporting a 21.5 inch pitch.

All the messing around with static flotation calculations seems to have paid off. This is what she looks like at rest:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0418.jpg

Zoom on the working bits:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0417.jpg

From the inside, complete with funky High School ramp foot prints:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0419.jpg

On the trailer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/DSCN0424.jpg

I've still got a bunch of cosmetic work to do. The new gelcoat needs a polish. The missing rub rail needs to be found, purchased and installed. I'll need to blend the new deck into the old...but she's fishable.

I still owe you folks pics of the rigging and other assorted interesting stuff. But hat will have to wait for a bit.

[z-drive]

yeah. enough said.

[soundownsam]

Excellent work. She looks great.

sam

[Gadabout Guinea]

On a job well done!! Good luck with the "new" rig!!

[DaleH]

Mongo like, Mongo REALLY like! Now, let's go fishing and git 'r done!

[KeyLargo18]

impressive undertaking and great results

[S Wally]

Awesome job. Very impressive!

[nsvencer]

I don't know, it looks a little too perfect...PHOTOSHOP!

Awesome job, looks unreal.

[BigBoatDog]

You've done a great job already. Feel proud!
BD

[mendy]

Superb work!

[Albiemanmike]

JUST AWESOME!

I bet you are feeling pretty good right about now. The rst of the work will be cake plus you can still go fishing now. She looks factory Kev very impressive work indeed!

[JAVIDANGLER]

Kev,
Great works and glad it runs well for you. --127-3-
You have reason to be proud of a project like this. It's now fishing time, except for the weather --126-3---126-3-. Looks like Sat is a cancel URGHH

[SAGE9]

It started as a dream and ended as reality....

Nicely done.

[Go Fish]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.

Dale and I got out today and had some nice snotty weather to put the "new" ride through her paces. We logged 60 miles on the day and conditions ranged from a light chop to an honest 2 foot sea (not a "The Hull Truth" 2 foot sea). Winds were 5-10 in the morning and were gusting over 20 by 11:00.

First off, with a reasonably full load (full fuel tank, ice, fishing and safety gear and two guys). I'm still turning 6450 RPM and making 48+ MPH with the 20 pitch prop at WOT. This is a 6100 RPM motor. I need to go up at least an inch, maybe 2 inches in pitch.

According to my astute observer, the cavitation plate is at or slightly above the water while on plane at cruise. Score one for high school geometry class.

In a really tight 2 foot quartering sea the boat can stay on plane, make 22-24 MPH and stay in the water for a reasonably comfortable ride. With Old Smokey on the stern we would have been falling off plane if we wanted to keep the boat in the water or we would have been launching every 3rd or 4th wave.

The boat rides bigger. The motor is quiet and strong. There is a lot more fishable space astern. I'm really happy with this project!

I was going through some old pictures a few days ago and came across a 7 year old shot of the ride, before any work was done:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/Before_Side-1.jpg

The old girl has come a long way since then...but the trailer sure has suffered:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/After.jpg

[DaleH]

I for one cannot wait to buy a Suzi 250hp or 300hp and put it on the stern of my big girl --127-3- ! Too bad the economy tanked ...

What a motor! At idle, you can only hear the water ****ing out of the pee port and hitting the seawater. And she had a beautiful throaty growl getting onto plane. VERY impressive motor! Yes, I am ready to abandon and surrender my OMC badge and replace it with a Suzuki badge Wink !

[soundownsam]

Tight Work. The only thing I see missing in pic #2 is 4 rocket launchers on teh back of the leaning post and 4 more on the aren't on the T-top.

Sam

[z-drive]

the suzis have the best sound! my 140 had the most beautiful whir around 4k rpm. the big ones on the towboat and gofish's boat have a nice sound through the powerband and no sound at idle.

no smoke, and you can carry on a conversation at cruise.

[JAVIDANGLER]

Glad this worked out well for you.

With 6100 max RPM and running 6450 you certainly want to go up on that prop. A 22in will probably do it. You still want to be as close to or slightly over the 6100. As a fishing boat you will find that low end power very nice. Asking passangers to move forward to get the boat on plane just isn't cool.

When is your next trip?

J=

[Bruce H]

The before and after pictures really tell it all and wow its spectacular What a terrific job its so very sexy!

Since you won't be able to do alot of boating I'll bring that Rampone up from down south so you can start working on that!--123-3

[e-sea-e]

she looks awesome kevin! let me know when you have some free time and we'll see how well blood washes off the new stern!

[JGH]

That's the most impressive DIY job I've ever seen. Congrats.

[Albiemanmike]

Kevin,
Just an awesome turn out. She looks very PRO done but better because you did her. The Bigger motor actually looks smaller than the smaller motor with the bracket setup. Do you miss the bow rail??? I know when I am out in the big stuff up there I like having the rail as it is pretty sporty a lot of the time. She looks like a completely different boat in the before/after shots. Maybe a 4 blader in the same pitch might bring it down where you want it and give you better performance to boot just wondering. the prop thing is so mysterious to me, I have run a bunch of different props on mine and always have found different results than expected. The problem with props is you have to buy them to try them and can't return once installed, a real PIA if you are really trying to dial it in.

That hull looks so much nicer with the bracket than the cutout transom. It really looks factory which is really what we always want the finished product to look like. An extremely well done job and your goal was completely accomplished and then some.

[DaleH]

The problem with props is you have to buy them to try them and can't return once installed, a real PIA if you are really trying to dial it in.
FWIW when buying premium props, like the Rev4-blade or Entertia from Mercury or PowerTech props, if you use a source like www.propgods.com, for $35 you can swap back in the prop you had for another one. Even better, they have test wheels they send to you, after a charge is placed on your CC.

Ken @ PropGods also has a good database on what works or what doesn't, in regards to boat weight, hull design, and any other performance factors you want to achieve, i.e., WOT speed versus mid-range/cruise MPG.

[Albiemanmike]

Thanks Dale I always learn new cool stuff from you. You definitely ROCK!

[JakeFF]

Kevin...awsome job..I am in awe. The new motor looks super on her. Best of luck with her.:-%

[johnh]

Spectacular Job!!!!

Mechanical engineering, woodworking, boatbuilding, chemistry. All of them. Great work and thanks for sharing it with us!!!

[fatkenny]

Ok I have a nit to pick!

What happened to the dude sweet stratos racing stripes and logo? Please put them back on!

Nice job, hope that motor does right by you. What a great looking sled (minus racing stripes and members only-style logo).

[wayno60]

Go Fish, very very neat work and the transformation is incredible..

I have one question, how did you work out the height of the motor bracket??

cheers
Wayne

[Go Fish]

Wayne,

It will be too difficult to explain the measurements and the math without a picture. I'll work something up and post it here in the near future.

[DaleH]

What happened to the dude sweet stratos racing stripes and logo? Please put them back on!
Agreed! You're quite right ... she looks kinda bare otherwise ...

;)

[Chuckster]

Now you tell me... I just finished removing the gawd awful black and blue stripes from my Stratos...

[Go Fish]

Please use the picture below to follow along with this description.

Ultimately we want to figure out the distance labeled h. This value is the distance from the point of the keel to the top of the bracket deck as measured directly on the surface of the transom. Figuring this distance is complicated by the height adjustment for the motor required by the offset from the transom by the bracket and the transom angle.

The rule of thumb I used to get the ball rolling is: “The cavitation plate on the motor lower unit needs to be 1” higher than the keel for every foot of bracket set-back.” Keep in mind that this is a rule of thumb, different hull shapes may need slightly more or less adjustment of the cavitation plate location. This can be addressed later on by choosing different mounting holes on the outboard.

First we have to locate the cavitation plate relative to the keel, motor mounting holes and bracket mounting holes:

On the outboard, measure the distance x from the top of the cavitation plate to the center of the middle mounting hole on the outboard. From the distance x, subtract the distance y measured from the center of the mounting hole on the bracket to the top surface of the bracket deck.

If you add the height adjustment that you calculated from the rule of thumb you will end up with the distance z. The distance z is the location of the top of the bracket deck relative to the keel of the boat.

(x-y) + (offset height adjustment) = z

Because the transom is angled, you can’t directly transfer z to the transom. You have to take into account the angle, A. If you sort through the cobwebs in your skull that used to be your knowledge of high school geometry you will remember that the cosine of angle A is equal to z/h. If you rearrange the equation to solve for h you end up with:

h = z/cos A

There is a very easy way to measure the angle A that uses a standard carpenters square. Click on THIS LINK (http://www.dadmarine.com/angle2.htm) for instructions.

Once you have the value of h you can just slap a tape measure on the transom and mark off the spot where the top deck of your bracket needs to be located on the transom.

I got lucky and the rule of thumb worked out perfectly. Chances are once you get it all set up and sea trial the boat you will need to go up or down a bit using the motor mounting holes. The goal is to get the cavitation plate riding at or just above the surface of the water when the boat is on plane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/G0Fish/BracketMeasurements.jpg

[wayno60]

How can one man know so much??

mate thank you.

[Trarajaks]

Have 1998 quicksilver 270 never had a motor on till this year. Put on a 9.8 evinrude to use with my son. Heres the problem hit a log, found out that I had dry rot around the motor mounting plate. Since it never had a motor the paint and everything else looked prefect. Any suggestions on what I can do to fix this or replace the whole transom?

Thanks

[DaleH]

Have 1998 quicksilver 270 never had a motor on till this year. Put on a 9.8 evinrude to use with my son. Heres the problem hit a log, found out that I had dry rot around the motor mounting plate. Since it never had a motor the paint and everything else looked prefect. Any suggestions on what I can do to fix this or replace the whole transom?

Can you give us more details? Pictures? Is the boat glass or aluminum? If aluminum, see and click this link here. (http://www.reel-time.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66701)

If glass, you can cut out the rot and pour in Seacast, see http://transomrepair.com/zk/literature.shtml

[browndog]

I believe it's a Mercury Marine inflatable.

[Too Fly]

Kevin - I'm still in awe of how you tackled this project. Very nice work.

Do you have any other pics of your arch/console?

How are you liking your bracket? I spoke to those people about a floatation style bracket for my Seacraft. Their brackets look nice enough and they're considerably cheaper than than a Hermco fiberglass bracket @ $2500.

[Go Fish]

TF-

What sort of pictures of the arch/console are you looking for? I'm happy to shoot some for you this weekend if I don't have any that fit the bill.

I'm happy with the bracket. It is holding up very well...still looks new. If I did it again I'd stick with the same company but I'd spend the extra few hundred bucks for a wider deck. Probably in the 6.5-7 foot wide range. It is a little sketchy finding a good footing when you have to get out on it to untangle something or "use the facilities".

[Kuskus68]

I love this CHIT!!!! You go Kevin it looks awesome and you are doing a pro job on it I can't wait for the next installment. I just had to order a new trim and tilt control relay for the Honda. First big part I have ever had to replace in over 1700 hrs. of use. I found it online for $199.00 so I was pretty happy that it wasn't going to cost me hundreds.

Thats a good price Mike those Hondas run and run had over 5000 hrs on my 50 still running when I sold it!
Ive since upgraded to a Yamaha 60..