Xi2 XP compare

[gseries69]

Looking for input on these two rods. I've cast both but never side by side. Looking at 8wts and will be using tropic lines. This will be a bonefish, snook, trout, red, baby tarpon rod. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

[JGH]

In my view, the XP 8 wt is one of the all time great 8 wt rods. The XP is a little quicker than the Xi2, though the Xi2 seems a little more forgiving and a little more powerful in the butt section for fish-fighting. Both are sweet rods. I use both (XP in 8 wt and Xi2 in 9 wt).

[sweet+salt]

You're right; you would have to cast them side-by-side with the same line and, I think, the XP might be the better flats rod. For fun I am going to expand your choices: I am taking the new Sage TCX #8 to the Bahamas in 10 days. I will try it with Sage's own Equator Taper II, RIO's new Bonefish Taper and I am bringing a Sharkskin Saltwater too. Though a bit gentler and significantly lighter than the TCR it replaces, it might prove to be Sage's premier flats rod. I will report upon my return in early May.

[JGH]

S+S -- I will be interested in what you think of the rod, and the Equatror Taper II and the Sharkskin lines. The TCX is sweet. I use a TCR 9 wt and I think the TCX is an upgrade for the flats. I used the Equator Taper II line in Andros and hated it -- despite repeated stretching, it would not lay flat and constantly tangled. I've used the Sharkskin line as well, but it is noisy in the guides and rough on your fingers (I got a pretty bad cut by a dry line and a strip-strike).

Good luck.

[sweet+salt]

I too have enjoyed a TCR #9 but perceived it as a specialized crab-delivery tool for infrequent casts to permit, it is no sweet all-day blind caster. I am excited to experience the user-friendly improvements Sage has designed into the TCX.

None of us like twist-prone tangled lines, I will evaluate. I know the Sharkskin is hissy contrasted to its floating and handling virtues but I am concerned about the damage it is alleged to cause to your hands. I'll try to be conscious of this and my wife thinks we should bring 'flex tape'. Fact is, I am an inveterate line switcher; so often I have found that line choice enhances or diminishes a rod's performance and often the right line is not my pre-conceived preference.

[JGH]

Definitely bring bandaids, tape, and liquid skin. Mine wa probably a freak occurrence, but on my first bonefish on my first day in Los Roques last year, I got a bloody gash right under the first knuckle on my left index finger -- right where you hold the line for stripping. The guide seemed concerned, or perhaps annoyed that I was dripping blood on his nice white boat.

[loon]

Joe, I would say JGH's description is spot on, although I would classify both rods as quite forgiving. This is based on comparing our two 9 wts (think your Xi2 was a 9) last year. To me the XP feels a little more "alive", but the Xi2 definitely has more power available in the butt.

[sweet+salt]

JGH, An injury to your line hand is exactly not what you want to begin a trip with. Did you believe the performance characteristics of Sharkskin outweighed its 'hiss and slash'?

[JGH]

S+S -- Even apart from the blood it drew, I did not like the Sharkskin line. It casts well, but I don't think it fishes well. By which I mean its texture can make stripping the line smoothly, or giving the fly a gentle "nudge," more difficult than with a smooth line. Also, the zing-zing-zing of the line through the guides, on a shallow, still flat, seems quite noisy. My guide actually felt it was too loud. Ultimately, I took the Sharkskin line off my reel on Day 2 and haven't used it since. I hope you have better luck with it.

[gseries69]

Todd that's right. You just made a liar out of me, I forgot about that. I'll have to cast them both again to refresh my memory but if I remember correctly your XP was a bit lighter and bit faster and felt more crisp.

When you say the XP is a better flats rod is that basically because there is less need to have lifting power from the butt section? I will also use for reds, hopefully some big ones, and snook and baby tarpon in the mangroves. Would that change your mind as to which rod to get?

[loon]

Given that mix, I'd probably go with the Xi2, although either would get it done. The difference is not huge, and thinking about it they did not have the same line. I can bring the XP this weekend: right now I'm a little wacky on Darvocet from hand surgery 3 hours ago.

[Wayne Walts]

The xp is faster than xi2. The xi2 is a great all around rod for bonefishing and general saltwater fishing. I feel the xi2 will handle a sinking line better, than xp.
With that said I have a tcx that is faster and more accurate than both of above.
The sharkskin is fair for bonefishing. The taper is too short,and not very accurate. The lack of friction in the guides makes it feel light. I have not liked the Rio bonefish line in the past but the new one is super. A new line to try if you can really cast is the no stretch tactical bonefish Air flo. Hooking bones or permit 80 to 100 feet away is a very positive hook set. Beginners or fair casters will like the Mastery redfish line.
By the way 3m is going to increase the line wt by a half size on the sharkskin saltwater. Always wear a stripping finger on a sharkskin line ,it will be printed on the box soon.
The last part of the system is the leader.I use mono 10ft.Rio leaders, in 10 and 13lb. If you use fluoro carbon tippet increase to 14 and 18lb. Orvis mirage18lb is
smaller in dia than 13lb Rio bonefish leaders. You can pull the stripes of them if they head into the mangroves.

[sweet+salt]

Thanks Wayne. I have yet to mount the Sharkskin on a reel yet and I think I will just leave it home. I too have not been a fan of the earlier RIO saltwater lines in general. However, having used their new 'Gold' trout line last season which I thought was terrific and learning at Somerset that the completely re-designed Bonefish taper uses the same aggressive head long rear taper, I look forward to trying it next week in the southern Bahamas.

Similarly, I also am excited about the light and crisp TCX. I will say this; if it is anything like the TCR it will not be 'forgiving' but, rather, demanding of good timing and technique.

Lastly, all-important leaders. Here I might diverge from your outfit. While I will pack some extruded, knotless fluorocarbon leaders for my companions quick-fix applications on the flats, I strongly prefer the performance of hand made leaders. I start by 12-turn nail or Albright knotting 4' of #40 fluoro to the line followed by blood knotting a foot each of #30 & #25, then 18" of 20 and 3' of 15 lb. tippet. I do not use 'fly fishing' brands of this material because they tend to be too small in diameter per pound test. I really don't care about pound test but rather the positive turn over and abrasion resistance afforded by mass and diameter. Lastly I eschew fixed fly knots like clinch or the superior Trileen knot and employ a fixed, non-slip loop knot instead. It is plenty strong and affords a crustacean imitation wafting towards the bottom more unencumbered action.

[Tarpon41]

I think either Xi2, XP, TCR, or TCX will get the job done on the flats...and would agree that mangrove snook etc might prefer Xi2 butt guts over XP and TCR...not sure about TCX yet(I've rolled a 10 wt blank). Last Andros in late Feb broke my 9 wt TCR with a #1 clouser strike on the tip. In 20 kts on boat switched to 10wt TCX with old RIO tropical outbound 10 which is 30 feet of two wts overline(425 grs vs 316 grs) that worked...here's my crazy combination and permutation(used KW March) using RIO's Tropical Outbound(old) with blue head and tan running line depending on wind conditions: 9 wt RIO TO (375 grs first 30ft) too much for my 9 wt TCR but perfect for 10 wt TCR in all wind conditions fishing from boat on the flats. In light wind I'll use it on the 10 wt TCX but in 20 plus I'll switch to 10 wt RIO TO (425) and in 0-20 my 11 wt XTR for Tarpon...if its really blowing then 12 wt XTR with 12 wt RIO TO (510). this works for me and my short stroke/rotator cuff casting. I don't know what I'd do if no wind showed up on one of my days on the flats probably switch to either my old Ridge Tropical or Cortland Tropic Plus in assigned wts...but then with my wind luck by the time of the first stop it's 15-20 kts and I'm fumbling and stumbling trying to water load the first 20-30 feet of line so I can get a 50 foot cast...

[Wayne Walts]

Hi Sweet and salt, I do not like fluorocarbon leaders for bonefishing, they drag on the bottom,hanging up and causing a mud trail. I use mirage fluoro tippet. By using heavy lb I get the diameter to turn fly over. I have fished with alot of guys that make one or two strips to get tight to the fly. Fewer knots the better.
Bonefishing is a passion if you have not guessed.

[sweet+salt]

Your point about skinny water, knots and sinking aspects of fluoro are logical, Wayne. I have been fishing a little deeper flats in Andros and the Keys the last few seasons where my type of leader rules but this upcoming trip is to a more wade oriented habitat. I have some Climax hard mono bonefish leaders that I can cut back a bit and use a fluoro tippet with. I'll bring them with me and experiment. I do strip my fly a lot less than I used to or than my guides sometimes want. Too many of my most memorable fish have lit-up on my fly as it drops through the water column with but one strip to come taught with my offering. In skinny water, however, more movement will be required to show fish the fly so I will play with leaders as well as lines. How about you, T41, what type of leader do you build?

[Tarpon41]

SS:

For Andros guided or DIY wading ...always seem to have wind so 9-10 feet...all bloods, RIO hard mono 20 kg butt to 15 kg to 10 kg then to 10 kg Gamma Fluro for tippet...even though the Gamma/FrogHair Fluro is 10 kg it's only .015 in. I use the heavier tippet to horse the fish in. Because I do not like to feed lazy sharks and yet sharks on the flat incoming tide wading means bonefish are somewhere on the flat. This 10kg tippet never seems to bother the Andros fish if I get the fly to the fish. Would agree less stripping is better for me also if I am tight to the fly from the get go.

[sweet+salt]

T41, Your leader sounds much like mine except that you, like Wayne, use mono for the bulk of your construction. Though, like you and for the same reasons, diameter is my top priority in tippets (I use Seaguar #20 in wind and with size 2 flies and that is .016" & #15 with smaller flies) I am justifiably leery of blood knot integrity when uniting fluoro to mono. Positive turn over and presentation precision with weight in the fly and wind in my teeth is my leader construction priority; not that I am resistant to experimentation. Obviously, back in the day pre-fluorocarbon, hard monofilament was what we used and it got clouded and weakened by the abrasive nature of bonefish flats while thick, stiff fluorocarbon, to a fault, retains its inherent properties. Though I still prefer supple mono for my dry fly trout fishing I do like the fluoro a lot in the salt. What is your rational for monofilament construction for the body of your leader?

[Strat]

Wow great discussion about the attention to detail that can make an average day a fantasitic one.

I agree with most here that the 8 XP is one of the classic quick action flats rods. It has become one of my favorites and I wish they were still in production.

It seems there is a sweet spot in every model line that Sage produces. They nailed it with the 8 XP and likewise with the 10 Xi2. In contrast the 7 XP and 9 Xi2 do not comparre IMHO...

[Kuskus68]

In my view, the XP 8 wt is one of the all time great 8 wt rods. The XP is a little quicker than the Xi2, though the Xi2 seems a little more forgiving and a little more powerful in the butt section for fish-fighting. Both are sweet rods. I use both (XP in 8 wt and Xi2 in 9 wt).

^^^^^Could noy say it any better I have the xp 8 It is one of my favorite flyrods.................