What do YOU want in a lodge?

[Gringo]

Hello,
I am one of four partners who are in the early planning stages of building what we hope becomes a world class bonefishing lodge in the Turks and Caicos Islands. We have the property, the permits, the architect, and the dreams. Oh, and we have miles and miles of virtually untouched bonefish and tarpon habitat in protected waters.

So, I am looking for input from people who bonefish. We are in the early stages of planning the lodge, and have looked at other lodges to see what worked for them. Some have seperate cabins for guests, others have all the rooms under one roof. Right now we are looking at eight rooms, a restaurant/bar, and lounge area all under one roof for starters but could be persuaded in other directions.

So, if any of you good people think you might be interested in providing input for a new place, only an hour's flight south of Miami, with great fishing....here's your chance!

[Cheju]

Gringo,

Good luck with your new venture!

Here is what I look forward to in a fishing lodge:

1. Good Fishing.
2. Knowledgeable and well trained guides.
3. Seperate cabins with bath.
4. Good food.
5. All of above priced reasonably. Not cheap but not a rip-off for the location.
6. Last, but the most important, is hands on management by the owner(s). A sure path to failure is absentee management.

Cheju

[Wayne Walts]

Great fishing, and guides. Boat/motor that run and are maintained.
Clean.
Good food.
The Turks have been too expensive for most bonefishers. The cost of travel and time is high. The drop off in fishermen numbers seem to be at $3000-$3200 for seven nights and six guided days. If you can put a rate as above you should do well.

[IFSteve]

1. Fishing that is not over pressured. Too many boats for the area will quickly ruin it.
2. Lodge should be clean and comfortable with decent food.
3. Guides should work hard and be pleasant to fish with.
4. Boats should be in darn near perfect working order and you must have spare boats. I have twice gone to a fishing resort when our boat died and we lost a day of fishing in both cases and the lodge did NOTHING to ease the situation (no reduced rate, no offer of free days if we came back, etc.)
5. Nice area to lounge around in after hours to swap tails with the other fisherman.
6. Rooms should be clean and its preferable to have their own bathroom. Separate cabins or more motel style I could care less about.
7. Cost should be commensurate with the quality of the lodge and the fishing (mostly the fishing). If the fishing is only so so but the lodge is superb...guess what. I am not interested. There are plenty of great places in the world to take my wife on vacation. When I am on a fishing trip the fishing is paramount. Others see it differently, this is just me.

Good luck!

Steve

[pinky]

gringo ,

you can have all the above in a lodge there are millions of fishermen out there but if you cannot get them to come no use in building . i just open my lodge in deadmans cay long island bahamas and has all the fine things mable floors double queens size bed with a/c and private bath in each room fine dining and the works but have not recieved the first client yet all the booking agents who put their input in for a high end lodge has not shown up yet all find their own excuse my advice to you before even breaking ground get your own marketing personel in place and let them go to a few flyfishing shows and do your own indepent survey for what they want and go as cheap as possible because the cheaper you can get the more fisherman will come and in this business i have found out quantity is far more important than quality if you want to talk more about it call me @242 472 2609 and visit my site @lazyhourbonefishing.com

[LeeG]

A clean place is key to start. From there, quality, friendly, people who know what they're doing-not just the guides btw. Decent food and a nice place to hangout and have drinks before and after dinner.

All of that assumes you have good fishing, working equipment (doesn't have to be fancy, just working), and reasonably priced. You'll have to decide if you want to be the most expensive, fancy lodge in the area or more of a place that caters to the middle of the spectrum. Sounds like a fun thing to be doing! Which island are you on?

[pschwart00]

Here's my 2 cents:
-If I'm dropping that kind of cash $3-$4k for a week all said and done for a fishing trip I want, obviously good fishing, good guides, no language barrier, and TIME ON THE WATER. An 8 hour fishing day, to me, as UNACCEPTABLE. A 9-10 hour day should be the norm. Obviously if want to come in earlier so be it. But an 8 hour trip less travel time you might only be looking at 6.5-7hrs of fishing/day. So if we split that with your partner 50/50 you might only get in a little over 3hrs of fishing per day. If that's the case, what's the point.
I know plenty of people that think an 8 hr day is fine and this gives them time to lounge around in the afternoon & BS over drinks but whoody-do, I can do that anywhere. Keep me on the WATER!!!

[wauwinet]

Gringo

Good luck on your lodge. I think a good place in T&C should do well as it appeals to non fisherpeople as well.

The bigget hurdle I think you will encounter is cost. To me, T&C doesn't mean bonefishing. It means EXPENSIVE bonefishing.

Right now, the best known operator in T&C offers a full day of bonefishing for $875. Add (2) $10 fishing licenses (2) $15 lunches and a 20% tip and you are looking at a a little over $1,100 per day. This is for fishing only and does not cover, breakfast, dinner or lodging.

Top lodges on Andros charge about $3,000 pp per week and that includes airport transfers, 3 meals a day, and just about everything else except tips.

If you are catering to hard core fishermen, you have to have prices that will compare favorably with Andros or Acklins.

The favorable aspects of T&C are that it does have a lot more infrastructure etc. to appeal to non fishing spouses and kids, has great offshore fishing close by and is easy to reach. I would make sure to have a 25' or larger center console at the lodge to offer an offshore option.

Best of luck.

[flatsmeow]

Gringo,
A comfortable place to stay with enough flats that can be rotated.Give the anglers A full day of fishing and not too many hour long boat rides to fishing areas.
Attempting to keep your prices as reasonable as possible would help.I know my limits for A week of fishing are in the $2000-$2500 range.I don't need luxury accomadations,just good guides,food,and A descent place to stay.
You also might consider setting aside A week or two for single anglers at A reduced rate.
Good luck with the lodge and keep us informed of your opening.

[Bonecrusher]

I've fished at numerous lodges in the Carib and Bahamas and I would advise that if it's something you can control, contol it very well. What I mean is, you can't control the weather, you can't control if the fish are going to be on a certain flat, you can't make fish eat, etc.
However, and this is my 3 biggest issues:
1) make sure the guides are at the lodge to pick up clients on time or early! Most of us only get to fish once, maybe twice a year and we wake up at 3 AM ready to hit the water. If the guides are supposed to pick up at 7:30, have them there by 7 and start early if possible (the guides will be rewarded and you will as well with repeat business).
2) make sure boat/motors, etc are in good working condition and well maintained. Don't half ass repairs or wait til something breaks to replace/repair it.
3) Make sure guides unstand tides, and where fish SHOULD be according to conditions. Guide should also know where to go depending on what the wind, temp, etc are doing to have the best likelihood of finding fish.
4) Don't nickel and dime someone to death with all kinds of odd charges/fees.

[Albula]

My two cents:

Guides

Assuming you've got a prolific fishery and the lodging experience right, the Guide/guiding experience is the critical/variable factor for Lodge success/sustainability.

In reading this and other boards you will see there is a tendency in this economy to disaggregate the Lodge experience, that is, that the market will buy guiding separate from lodging (to the point of DIY).

On Andros and Abaco I can buy good guiding for $350/day, great guiding for $500/day, with per person room and board from $100-$150/day. Alternatively, I can spend $1000/pp/day on a exclusive, high-end guiding/lodging operation. Where along the range of these alternatives will you compete?

Cuba

If there is a more prolific sport fishery in the Caribbean today I am unaware of it. For obvious legacy reasons, this potential competitor is not in the market in a serious way vis. the US market, but that will change soon enough. When the Cuban sportfishing market opens legally for US citizens it will suck oxygen out of competitive markets, resulting in a double whammy for many lodge owners following this "great recession." In my opinion, many guiding operations in the 'Greater Bahamas' are not prepared for this change in the market.

[Cheju]

Our communist friends in Cuba will turn capitalistic fast when their fishery opens to the USA. "Charge what the market will bare" will be the rallying cry of the locals when the first plane load of eager American flats fisherman arrive. It might take some time for the quality of the guides, equipment and accomodations to be competitive but the prices will be right up there from day one.

Cheju

[Capt. John]

Hi Gringo- I run a small fishing travel business and here are a few things that come to mind.
Right off the bat is T&C has been way to much $$ to fish bones...the fish are typically small bones in good numbers- although good for novice bonefishers not a great draw for experinced anglers. You will be competeing with the bahamas which is much closer for USA anglers and has areas with BIG bonefish. Really do your homework before buiding a "dream".

If you do it here are some real baics to think about...
1.train your guides to know the tides and fish hard
2. KEEP the price down as much as possible to build the place up, you can always raise prices once it's established.
3. Small but valuable is a FLY TYING station or two with basic materials and vices...very small cost to have and invaluable to anglers OR you supply local patterns that work for your area

Good luck and I hope it comes together for you...........

[gseries69]

VALUE, VALUE, VALUE!!!

Most anglers I know don't spend or want to spend much time in the lodge. Keep your fixed costs low so that you can put more money towards the things that count. Good guides, good food, comfortable bar, etc. The rooms must be clean but don't need to be fancy. Most anglers just need a place to sleep. Also make sure there are things for non anglers to do. Snorkeling, kayaks on hand, scuba lessons, etc.

There are so many expensive lodges out there already. I don't want to pay for a fancy lodge, but I will pay for a great experience on the water.

[Swalt]

I have been following this thread and decided to give my 2 cents.

The first thing I look for when deciding on a fishing trip is destination. Is it a place that has above average fishing and not just a lodge that has bonefishing. I have never taken a trip because I liked the lodge. I have never looked at T&C as that type of destination. You would need to promote the fishing there, as something special, to attract fishermen.

After deciding on a destination I decide whether to do it DIY or go with a lodge. If going with a lodge I then look for a place with a good reputation that is reasonably priced. Important things would be comfortable rooming, good guides, good food and friendly people. T&C has a reputation for being high priced and upscale. If you can't attract the hardcore fishermen then you would need to build a place that attracts fishermen that enjoy something special in a lodge.

Some things I have experienced that made a lodge special to me are:
After hours fishing; Located on a flat or close enough that fish can be reached by kayaks or some other form of transportation that is provided by the lodge.
Rooms; Instead of the usual motel room layout provide a separate bedroom for each fisherman. A duplex with 2 bedrooms, one common bath, small kitchen with fridge and a living room with TV on each side or the same type setup for a group of 4 with 2 baths.
Guides; willing to do a little extra. Something more than the 8 - 4 day. If conditions are not right for bonefish then they can adapt and do a little reef fishing or lagoon fishing.

[Spiral]

No offense, but spending close to $1,000 a day to bonefish when you have more options available closer and for less? Who would do that?

I've never been to T&C and to tell you the truth, all the stories I hear of how expensive it is mean I will never go there. Way to many other options to try that are alot more economical. I'm sure there will always be a market for people with money who will visit and don't know any better, but most fisherman who will put in the time to travel will do their homework and know there are alot better options out there.

My goodness, you could go to the Seychelles for the same price of an extended fishing trip there!

Good luck, but I'd be looking at a different location myself if I was building my dream lodge.

[bigcamel33]

i second capt john's suggestion about a fly tying bench on site, with material for sale. even take it a step further and sell the best local patterns. i've often wondered why none of the remote lodges i have been to don't crank out local patterns and sell them for what should be a decent margin...you could help travelers ease anxiety about having the right patterns by ensuring supplies/flies on site.

the DIY kayak idea is nice, but there may be some liability issues there, no? good luck with all this

[Fin Addiction]

I was part of a start up operation in Ragged Island this year. Here is what I took away from the experience.
Food... Most clients want to sample local fare. I have noticed that alot of the bahamian locals ate farily simple high cholesterol diets of FRIED foot....Conch fritters are good but conch fritters and fried fish and peas and rice everyday gets might damned old fast. Having a chef that can prepare high end healthy and tasty locally caught product is a big plus.
A nicely stocked bar with a bartender that enjoys talking with folks.
Fly Tying Bench.....We had one but everybody was too spent to tye in the evenings.
Satellite TV....Dont want to miss the big game...
Good collection of music from jazz, reggae for dinnertime ambience.
IPODS docks in every room
Clean rooms, clean water...Our RO system was the heartbeat of the lodge...
One of my jobs was to explore the offshore opportunities. We bought a 31 contender and started offering offshore trips as well for fly and LT.
I have never been to TC but if you have offshore capabilites close by then it might be a great idea to open that up for your clients....6 straight days of bonefishing can get old....Throwing in the option of a day offshore is something the clients jumped all over. It was quite close to us on Ragged...
I'll come down and get that part of the operation going for you...;)

Good LUck!!:-%

[backwater]

I would make the following suggestions:

1. Keep your pricing plan reasonable. I am starting to see Andros prices go from what used to be around $2k to closer to $4k per week and that has be looking around for other spots.

I would focus on keeping the lodge full, rather than over pricing yourself. I've often thought that the lodge business was sort of like the airline industry. When that plane flies, you've just lost money on every empty seat. Why not offer big last minute discounts for empty rooms? What difference does it make if you take 1/2 of your regular rate, rather than have an empty room for the week? When that week is over, you can't get that time back again.

2. I totally agree that the boats and motors have to be top notch. There is NOTHING that is worse than wasting a guest's fishing time with a broken boat. I would say if that happens (and it has to me), address it with the client right away and offer him something to offset that lost time. Also, I would put a little more into safety gear, VHF radios, first aid kits, tool kits for the engines, etc. Many of the boats that I've used in the Bahamas are without this basic gear. I've had guides ask me if I had a pliers (I did) so they could fix their motors...that shouldn't happen.

3. If at all possible, I would suggest offering single rooms. Kind of a big request, but a very nice feature to offer guests.

4. Free soda and juices. Might seem like a minor thing, but I find it sort of unbelievable for a lodge to present me with a bill for sodas, waters, and juices and I've spend $3500 for the week. Not a great way to end things. I hate the feeling of being nickel and dimed. I also would play down the tipping. I know the staff deserves it, but I sort of feel like I'm being asked to pay a whole new bill...as if the $$$ I've already spent means nothing. Guides should be tipped at the end of the week, the staff should receive something, and THAT's it. I feel that everyone has their hand out from the maid to the guy that drives me to the airport. I don't tip this much when I stay at the Ritz Carlton.

Good luck with the lodge, please send me the link to your website.

[hatidua]

In the past ten years, I've fairly extensively fished Belize, Bahamas, Florida, Mexico (Yucatan and Baja), Seychelles, Fiji, Tahiti, Indonesia, Maldives, Canada, Alaska, and a host of other spots I won't bore people with (including a few I'm told Americans aren't supposed to fish...). In order to do that, and fish a LOT (over 200 days last year), I don't fish lodges for the following reason: I WON'T PAY $3K PER WEEK TO HAVE MY HAND HELD!

So far in this thread we've had iPod docks in every room mentioned, first-rate chef's, and a host of other things that have NOTHING to do with fishing.

I go on trips to catch fish. Period. If I want a gourmet meal with a top chef, I can get that three blocks from my front door and still sleep in a king sized bed that night with my wife.

Anyone that wants to go to a great little hotel and be pampered their whole time ought to consider the Aman chain of boutique hotels or some other small boutique venue. I prefer to hire guides who pick me up about an hour before sunrise and drop me off an hour after dark from my cheap local hotel. That, is fishing.

For a lodge to get my attention, they'd need to have fishing-on-foot access from the actual property so I could fish when not with a guide, no cockroaches, and reasonable rates. That's really all there is to it.

-Or, call Frontiers or Fly Castaway and book the opposite end of the spectrum.

[pinky]

I really can't see these prices you are quoting i have a nice lodge in deadmans cay long island bahamas bamboo floors travatine tile floor in club house gourmet meals new 17ft mitzi skiffs with new 60 hp yamaha motors all inclusive excluding liquor [because i think a none drinker should not help pay for a drinker] for 2,450 for a 7 night 6day fishing and that includes the 20% the booking agent charges