What's the law? Surf fishermen of NY your answers are welcome

[Pierre Champ']

Hi everyone,

After countless hours of research on the web I still can't find the answer for my problem (which could be a problem for the whole Surfishing community...)

This Thursday, I was peacefully fishing/wading at in Coney Island, when a Private policemen from Seagate community, yelled at me, shouting:
- This a private property you don t have the right to fish??!!
- That I needed a Licence!!! (#$119)
- My fish were not legal!!! (#$119) ( I caught a Spoted Sea Trout of 33 inches:) and a bass of easely 30 inches:))

So, I came to him, he told me to give him the 2 two fish (#$119), asked for an ID, he took my Credit Card and my french ID. He went in his his car for 10 to 15 min and told me that for this time it was ok, no fine but he told me to never come back.

I thought that as long as you are fishing, and bellow the line of the High Tide, it was legal to fish because water and shore are the proporty of the state.

I am desperate, it was a peacefull place to fish, not the best place but it was convenient for me.

So, as a fly and spin fisherman, I come to you to get the proof that we can fish in those waters if we respect the high tide line. I know the subject have been discuss for Massachussets but not for NY state.

See attached the picture of the Spoted Sea Trout or Weakfish...

[Pierre Champ']

Looks like no one really care/know about the rights for the Fishermen who don't own their boat...

Well, I feel down to know that my HONEY SPOT is gonne...I thought that I could have some info about that...

Anyway...I will find another spot...or figure something else...like buying a Float Tube...!;)

Sad to think that the Sea and the fish can be PRIVATE...

Pierre

[venture]

Pierre,

I think that the lack of response comes from the fact that no one knows the real laws.

It has always been my understanding that no one owns the water nor the shoreline below the high tide mark. I believed that as long as you stay below or on the high tide mark, and do not trespass through someone's property above the high tide line, you are legal.

The line must start somewhere. Boats can beach drift inches off the shore also and are not considered trespassing. You can even beach a boat on the shore and not be trespassing.....as long as the boat is below the high tide mark.

Your challenge is to convince that policeman that you are in your rights. If this place is worth fighting for, I would contact New York State's department of recreation and get confirmation or a referral from them. With proof in hand, I would go to that local police department with proof, then map out the way in which you get there......showing that your entry and departure is through public access.

Too bad you must go through this BS, but if the spot is a good one for you, it may be worth your time dealing with it properly.

By the way, NICE FISH!

Howie

[brushfly]

I don't think that you have to go that far. In my opinion, the private policemen (Rent-a-cop) does not have juristiction over marine fisheries regulations.(Taking your fish?). Regarding trespassing, agree with Venture on below the high tide line thing.

What I would do is go to the local New York City Police Department, closest to your fishing hole, and show them how you access it, and stay out of the private Seagate community property proper. Once you here it from NYC Police that you are not tresspassing, you can refer to that if Johnny Law ever breaks your cojones again.

Nice fish as stated. Go git 'em.

[Pierre Champ']

Thanks for your messages! and for your congrats on my first Weakfish of my life!;)

I think I am going to try and figure this out because this spot was pretty awesome...I must say! and also because I want to fish peacefully in the future.

It is not like I was doing something bad and this guy trully yielled at me like I was a real criminal...(#$119)(#$119)

Keep the line tight!

[Lov2Fish]

Pierre, I'm also not sure of legallity, but I agree with the other answers . I would check around, make a few calls or emails, the water belongs to everyone, not just some water front property owners. And by the way excellent shore line catches! Good luck!

[DougBaz]

Pierre:
I recently researched this for an even more complicated situation--private land along a stream which I flyfish for pre spawining stripers which empties into the Hudson.
I called the water rights people at DEC and a lawyer in order to assess my rights to not be thrown out at 4:30am from prime water while I was wading. Venture is right-especially in coastal water like Coney Island. Below the high water mark is public property. I'd say you are good as long as you enter/exit the water via public access.
Don't let a private police officer ruin your summer/fall and precious time on the water. You may have to challenge him with your knowledge of water rights ---and see what happens--

[KayakerStan]

It has always been my understanding that no one owns the water nor the shoreline below the high tide mark. I believed that as long as you stay below or on the high tide mark, and do not trespass through someone's property above the high tide line, you are legal.

I totally agree with the above quote.

Pierre, did you see any signs saying "No Trespassing", "Do Not Enter" or "Private Property" when walking the shoreline? If you didn't see any signs the private police shouldn't be bothering you. Otherwise if you have to cross over private property to reach the waters edge you could get in trouble.

[ShaneY]

I would say if you did it properly and the rent a cop bothers you again offer to call the real police for him so they can settle the matter. He'll either leave you alone or take you up on your offer at which point they will come and you can show them your access route and you will have it on record that you can fish there. The rent a cop will be put in his place and you having been the one who called will be making the complaint against said rent a cop for harassment.

[mctrout]

I have put in a call to a good friend and serious fisherman that lives in Seagate and he is going to illuminate the situation, and if the renta cop needs a talking to, he will get one from him for sure. Let me know when you were there and we'll sort it out. Nice fish, yummy??

[Bob Parsons]

I think Mr. Rent-A-Cop stole your fish.

[ACE]

wait, wait, you caught those fish wading? In Coney Island? I've been doing this all wrong and going to the wrong places all these years?
Having had an experience like this before, it's best to stay in the water. They won't get their shiny shoes wet and they can't exactly shoot you. Because they don't have a gun. Because they failed the exam for the real police. If you are in the water you are (almost always, shhhh) below the mean high tide line. Carry your cell phone, don't respond or react and say "would you like me to call the police?" This usually works. If it doesn't, call the desk number, not 911, and explain your situation, especially if the "private officer" is yelling and threatening. Another good reason not to get out of the water.
Also, there's always "Je ne parle pas de tout Anglais."

[ShaneY]

I did forget one other part... you gave the guy your credit card? There's is something reaaaLLLY wrong with that. I would call your cc company and make sure nothing fishy is going on.

[mctrout]

I spoke to the resident. he said that there is no way to get to the beach there without walking thru private Seagate C ommunity land. they do have a permit for the community but you have to be a resident. Doest sound right but, that is Brooklyn for you

[Northfork]

Seems to me that if you can't get to a particular spot while wading- if there is not an inlet too deep to wade - you are blocked by a bulkhead or groin that prevents you from walking the beach. Is that the case here? What are our rights when landowners interfere with our rights to walk the beach? In my township in Suffolk County NY they have posted signs in public places like local grocery stores that the beaches are for everyone from the water line to the average high tide line. No mention of what to do when that right is breached by the homeowner. I'm leery of climbing over someone's property to fish if I can't wade around the obstruction.
For the advice given earlier about contacting the police when private parties block your access I would think that in most cases the police would side with the homeowner (taxpayer) rather than fisherman (intruder) unless the individual cop is a fisherman and knows our right to the water.

[Pierre Champ']

Hi everyone,

I thank you for all your advices and for the useful answers.

Mc Trout said that I spoke to the resident. he said that there is no way to get to the beach there without walking thru private Seagate C ommunity land. they do have a permit for the community but you have to be a resident. Doest sound right but, that is Brooklyn for you :rolleyes: Well...I think that the interesting part is that you can ACCESS the Honey Spot Without walking a Single Time on the shore!!! :)

My point is this Brooklyn, for sure! But I would like to know since when anyone can own the part of the land below the Sea line??? I am pretty sure that what they do in SEAGATE is legally Wrong, but because they are threatening surf fishermen nobody even dare to determine whether they can or can't do this.

Anyway, I am not hater nor a thief so being treated like that was pretty wrong and for sure I think that things would have been different in my own country, especially with my fishing friends ;)

Like I said before, I am not looking for troubles when I fish so I just found a place where I can land nice bass on the fly from the shore:):) All released!
Nice fish from last night caught on my own flies (Eel patern with Epoxy) ;) and my good old 10 feet, 9 weight in Three pieces (yeah, in France we have three pieces rods which is a nonsense...) from my Dad :)

Tight Lines and Thanks Again for your messages!

Pierre