RJ
07-02-2009, 02:06 AM
A thread dating back to the winter months was closed this week because some of the participants decided to poke fun and perhaps not so fun at some of the other parties. The moderator shut it down, as it failed at several levels to maintain a decent level of discussion and an exchange of ideas.
I was asked a question by seafly about waterfowl hunting compared to striped bass fishing. and didn't get a chance to answer it.
I would like to open the discussion with his question and my reply. And I would appreciate it if all parties leave their ANGST Buttons out side the thread. A full and far ranging discussion on Commercial fishing and it place in the harvest numbers of Striped bass is needed. And a full discussion of the growing recreational harvest and dead discards caused by surf fishing with bait and plugs, Party boat angling with bait and jigs, Fly fishing and the catch and release activities of all the different disciplines practiced by recreational anglers. I personally seek striped bass with flys 80% of the time, plugs 15% of the time and bait 5% of the time. I keep several bluefish annually that I catch with plugs or bait and two or three striped bass with flys. I crush my barbs and try not ot remove the fish from the water, if posible.
I believe that there is room for both commercial and recreational components in the Atlantic Striped Bass Fishery. We are at a crossroads and whether the Federal Registry of salt water anglers or its equivilant is accomplished by each state along the Striped Bass Atlantic Coast implementing a saltwater fishing license, the majority of us need to understand clearly what is at stake.
The partisan gouging between those who see no harm and some good in having a commercial fishery for striped bass and those who want to eleminate commercial fishing for striped bass is a classic devide and conquor move . Some folks believe they know what is best for the bass, and will not allow the thought of any option but theirs. That is ego at its worst. Ignoring the facts that do not fit their conception of what should be is a great falult. They can not believe that striped Bass have fully recovered, as announced in 1995 and since then the Atlantic Striped Bass Populaton has continued to expand. The ASMFC guidance for about ten years brought the Bass Population back from the brink and to full recovery in ten years.
Yet, in the next 14 years, some people, can not believe that the fully recovered species has continued to expand well beyond the figure determined in 1995.
There have been no natural disasters that have killed millions of striped bass and the commercial harvests are miniscule compared to the estimated biomass that was about 65 million striped bass in 2006.
Some important dates we all need to share as our common history concerning Striped Bass Management during the past 4 decades. I'm 70 years old and have fished for striped bass ssince 1951.
Early 1970s – Steady decline in the abundance of striped bass, particularly in the Chesapeake Bay stock, leading to a number of regulations designed to reverse the decline
1979 – Congress enacts an amendment to the Anadromous Fish Conservation Act specifying that an Emergency Striped Bass Study be undertaken to determine the status of the striped bass stocks and the causes for the decline in the striped bass population; study conducted each year from 1980 through 1994 and findings presented to Congress
1980s – Several states close their state waters to fishing for striped bass
1984 – Congress passes the Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act to enable a federal moratorium on striped bass fishing in states that fail to comply with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) Fishery Management Plan
1989 – Amendment 4 to the ASMFC FMP implemented, addressing the reopening of the fishery during the initial period of stock recovery; as stock status improved, revisions to management measures addressing the changing circumstances are allowed from 1989-1994
1990 – NOAA Fisheries Service implements a federal ban on the harvest and possession of striped bass in the EEZ to support efforts of the ASMFC and to aid in the recovery of east coast striped bass
1995 – Striped bass declared restored; Amendment 5 adopted, establishing a harvest level that would maintain the spawning stock biomass able to produce self-sustaining spawning stocks in each designated spawning area; also requires extensive monitoring and reporting requirements
1997 – Congress reauthorizes the Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act, mandating that the Secretaries of Commerce and the Interior provide biennial reports to Congress and the ASMFC on studies of the Atlantic striped bass resource
2003 – Amendment 6 to ASMFC FMP adopted; commercial components of the Amendment implemented in 2003, recreational implemented in 2004
2005 – Most recent stock assessment indicates that striped bass stocks are at high levels of abundance and are supporting increased landings, primarily in recreational fisheries
2006 - Dr. William Horgath, PH D testified before Congress and said this about the state of the Atlantic Striped Bass Population. “From an over-fished state in the mid-1980s, coastal stocks have recovered to high levels of abundance due to the coordinated actions of all management partners. The success has provided increased fishing opportunities in coastal states from Maine through North Carolina. In 1982, the abundance of striped bass stood at 4.8 million fish coast-wide, and today it is estimated to be a 65.3 million fish. The recovery of striped bass stocks clearly demonstrates that cooperative management by coastal states, federal agencies, and user groups is effective.”
2007 – An Executive Order encourages states, where applicable, to designate striped bass as a "gamefish" and prohibits commercial sale of striped bass caught in federal waters; striped bass raised through aquaculture operations and caught in state commercial fisheries are still be available to U.S. consumers in supermarkets and restaurants
2008 -Atlantic Striped Bass Removals by Fishery Component was published in the ASMFC Striped Bass Profile, September, 2008 . For 2006 Harvest removals by commercial and recreational fishery components.
Bi-Catch by the commercials and catch and release by the recreationals makes up the discarded percentages and fish numbers.
Commercial Harvest 17% - 1,049,587 fish
Discarded (bi-catch) 4% - 216,753 fish
****************************************
Recreational Harvest 45% - 2,774,542 fish
Discarded (Catch and Release) 34% - 2,072,334 fish
The commercial anglers took 21% of the fish and the recreational anglers took 79% of the fish harvested or dead discards
The health of the stock must be the determining factor .Total harvest including dead discards in 2006 was 6,113,216 fish killed out of an estimated population of more than 65 million striped bass is about 1 percent of the total population.
Seafly posted
commercial market hunting?
RJ,
Do you feel that the commercial taking and selling of waterfowl should be OK? The selling of most recreationally valuable natural resources has been legally declared off limits to commercial harvesting including all wild waterfowl. Wondering what you think makes wild stripers uniquely so different that they should be exempt from "game" status?
Seems to me that it is the striped bass's total value to society (not it's economic value alone) that should be the measure of whether it should be a "game" species as so many other recreationally "valuable" species alrerady are.
Seafly,
Your argument linking waterfowl to striped bass is not a valid one. I have hunted waterfowl since 1962 and have been the President or Director for two major Waterfowl Associations. For the past ten years I have sat on the NY State Waterfowl Season Setting Committee. And I represented the State of NJ for 6 years at the Atlantic Flyway Annual meeting. Waterfowl resources are much smaller and more easily harvested and damaged than striped bass. They do not have the protection of the great waters fish swim in. They are affected by many more potential disasters than fish will ever be. For example waterfowl breeding areas for Snow Geese and Canada Geese are more threatened by poor recruitment caused by lack of food and extreme weather conditions, not commercial or recreational harvests of those two populations. There hasn't been commercial market hunting of waterfowl since the mid 1930's .Then as now recreational hunters harvested more waterfowl than commercial market hunters ever did.
Waterfowl hunters, banded together and demanded seasons and bag limits in the 1930's where there never were limits before. Commercial waterfowl hunting was on its way out and only a few families in the Chesapeake Region were still hunting for the market in the 1930's. Market huntings heyday was in the 1800's and early 1900's. They supplied a much smaller population in major cities along the eastern seaboard. The rest of America shot ducks and geese for consumption at thier own tables.
Canvasback, greater and lesser scaup have been affected more by drought and farming practices in their breeding areas and the reduction of wintering area resources in the past 50 years than by hunting. Clean water filtration in the Lower Niagara River for example wiped out nutrients that were necessary for the growth of underwater plants in western Lake Ontario. That fact alone has led to a drastic reduction in a major diving duck wintering area. Ditto for Canvasbacks in the Finger Lakes. Barnagat Bay supported great bays of eel grass until a small canal let in too much sea water and the saline count went up and the grass died. Canvasback ducks and Atlantic Brant wintered there in their hundreds of thuosands. No more.
Cans are very rare and the Atlantic Brant you see today learned to survive on that ugly green and nasty tasting stuff called sea cabbage.
In the past six decades Greater Snow Populations cycles were affected by extreme weather and population over abundance twice. Once in the early 1940’s, when that species almost literally ate itself almost out of existence. The population crashed because they denuded their breeding ground and their wintering grounds.
Recreational hunting for the Atlantic Snow Goose was closed for almost 30 years. It reopened in the 1970’s with a single snow goose allowed in the daily harvest. Today, 30 years later, unlimited daily harvest is encouraged, because this species is close to crashing again, because of its huge size. In addition to the Greater Snow Goose (A Mid-Atlantic wintering species) the Lesser Snow Goose, whose winter range is in the Central and Pacific Flyway is also so abundant that the USFWS has allowed unlimited harvest and even electric calling devices and field baiting to increase the harvest. And Spring waterfowl hunting of both Lesser and Greater Snow Geese as they fly north to reproduce has also been encouraged by the federaland satae authorities. Waterfowl biologists fear that Snow Geese with suffer a huge die off thru starvation, again.
If you want to mix apples and oranges and try to make a valid connection between the game species status and waterfowl and striped bass, you might extrapolate the abundance of 65 million striped bass and their consumption of river herring and menhaden as a possibility that a striped bass abundance could cause a population crash, because they may gobbled up their food sources. Aside from that very small possibility, I do not think you can connect the end of market hunting watrfowl for any reason to the current state of affairs concerning striped bass.
The turn about from 4.8 million striped bass in the Coastal States from NC to ME since 1984 to the 65 million striped bass estimated in 2006 in a strong indicator that commercial fishing harvest are not affecting the status of striped bass. Commercial harvest of this species is regulated and inspected very closely.
Total commercial harvest for sale and bi-catch dead discards (1,266,340 fish) is 21% of the harvest, compared to the estimated recreational harvest and dead discards (4,846,876 fish) is 79% generated by recreational anglers.
Combined the two harvest components removed 6,113,216 striped bass from an estimated striped bass population of 65,000,000 fish . Leaves between 58 and 59 million striped bass available for growth and reproductive activities. The total harvest and dead discard amounts to 1% of the total.
Here is a fishing report I found about striped bass and other fish in Long Island Sound last week. A week that included a Nor’easter and tornado’s created from thunderstorms and extreme winds smack dab in the middle of the striper coast.
Weather limited the number of anglers along most of the striper coast. Yet those who went out found a lots of bass in all sizes except Twinky. Twink's remain in the lower reaches of most salt water tidal areas far enought to be missed by their bigger brethern and the yellow eyed devil the blue fish. When they get to be 15 or 16 inches long they exit the rivers and into the bays as the spawners come ine tothe rivers to spawn. There is a study that indicates that Hdson River immature striped bass move down the sides of the the river as mature bass move up the channel. The small bass move into tWestern Long Island sound and Raritan Bay
I have edited the website source and author, as they are not part of SOL.
July 1, 2009
“So I’m in Maine and I get a call from my brother. “Guess what’s swimming around in Northport Bay?” I guess a man-eating shark and I’m wrong. So I figure bluefin tuna, they like water temps in the low- to mid -60’s. Wrong again. I finally give up. “Dolphins!” I immediately think, “how can this be? Don’t dolphins (porpoises) like clean, pristine water?” I go online and sure as heck, I see a report from a local newpaper that porpoises were spotted in Huntington Bay. Speaking to various bait and tackle owners, this will not help out the local fishing, as you will see as you read further down in this report. The porpoises are feeding heavily on cocktail bluefish, bunker and schoolie to teen- size stripers.
Tom from Oyster Bay Marine Supply was one of those that think this will put a crimp on the fabulous bass bite to the west. On Thursday, Tom ventured out with Captain Ralph Novotny and they found a massive bunker school off Manhasset bay. They live-lined all the big bass, averaging 41- to 43-inches, one could dream of. They also had big bluefish to 10 pounds. By the weekend these fish were gone, probably all scattered from the hungry mammals. Tom also got in a bottom fishing trip at Buoy 32A. He and Carl Wozniak used clams to take 6 different species, a repeat performance of last week. The notable catches were porgies to 2.25 pounds and sea bass to 2 pounds. John Muscianisi was able to connect on a bass despite the porpoise issue. John caught a 28.5-pound striper at the end of the tide at Buoy 17. Gary Rinaldo boated a nice 27.25-pound bass at Buoy 15 on Thursday. And Anthony Palumbo ended the striped bass weigh-in parade at Oyster Bay Marine Supply with a 23-pound striper that he chunked at a mid-sound rock pile. He also had blues to 6 pounds on the chunk as well.
Richie from Bridge Marina in Bayville reported that porgies were the mainstay for his rental boat customers. Centre Island Reef, inside Oyster Bay Harbor and the bell buoy on the east side of Cold Spring Harbor were the places that produced good catches of medium to above average scup. Richie didn’t actually see any keeper bass this week and many of his customers said that the presence of porpoises in the area shut the bass fishing down.
Dean from Harbor Bait and Tackle in Halesite reported that his customers were shooting west for hot and heavy action on big bass. One customer trekked west and was rewarded with 28 bass to around 25-pounds. Another customer released close to 60 bass up to 35-pounds. Locally, the OB and various other spots in the Triangle produced keeper bass on chunks and by trolling parachute rigs. An 11-year old customer by the name of Tom caught his first ever striped bass. It measured 31-inches and weighed 14-pounds.
Rob from High Hook Bait and tackle in Huntington reported that Crab Meadow and Caumsett Beach were the places that his customers scored with keeper bass . There were reported catches of bluefish mixed in with these bass. A customer by the name of Ray duped a 29-pound linesider while chunking near Target Rock. Scott Mienzes chunked in the Triangle and took a 9-pound striper and a 10.5-pound bluefish. Rob also mentioned that big porgies were caught on worms and clams off the Brushpile and at the tip of Sand City. Clam baits accounted for bigger fish up to 15 inches.
Dave Jr. from Northport Rod and Reel said the hot bass fishing continued this week when the weather allowed one to venture off the dock. Ed Munno stopped the shop with stripers ranging from 26 to 31 pounds. All of these fish were chunked at or near Buoy 15. Tony Alessi chunked a nice 26-pound striper on Saturday morning, a fish that responded to a bunker head. Dave described the porgy fishing as astronomical at the Brushpile, Makamah Beach, the Golf Course and Sand City Point.
Sunrise Charters put their fares into very good striped bass fishing this week. One trip, led by Tom Law, iced 6 keeper bass to 22 pounds. All of these bass were bucktailed at Cranes Neck or the Middle Grounds. Most of the other trips accounted for bass to 20 pounds or so.
Ken Swaine of Swaine’s Bait and Tackle in St. James reported that stripers from 28- to 33 inches were caught this week by anglers using clams, worms and live eels. Mixed with these nice keeper size bass are bluefish and they go anywhere from 6 to 10 pounds. The bluefish respond to all the bass bait mentioned just now in addition to top-water and swimming plugs. Porgy fishing is very good and Ken said that the key is heavy, heavy chumming. You’ll have to sort through the smaller porgies but with enough chum in the water, the big guys will eventually hit. Overall, Ken said the fishing this week was superb despite the stormy weather which was encountered throughout the week.
Candy Caratis of Caraftis Fishing Station in Port Jeff reported that nice bass continued to be taken at Buoy 11 on chunks and diamond jigging and also by worm trolling in the inlet and inside of Port Jeff Harbor. Big porgies were also taken off Cranes Neck and Old Field this week and mixed in with them are a smattering of 3-pound bluefish.
Captain Barbara Fusco of Luv2fish Charters out of Mount Sinai slugged it out with the wind and rain to put bass from 28- to 32-inches in the boat. Barb deployed the use of jigs and surface plugs to get the attention of the bass. She also had good innings with porgies. It didn’t take long to fill a bucket of above average size scup.
On Sunday’s trip aboard the Osprey IV, the morning bite for porgies got off to a slow start but by afternoon, the porgies came to life and hit everything in sight with fish to 2 pounds. Captain Stew also put the fares into bluefish and some keeper bass.
Captain Desi O’Sullivan, the captain and owner of the Celtic Quest IV described Thursday’s and Friday’s trips as “borderline Ludicrous”. It was lock and load porgy fishing on Friday where it only took 30-minutes for the entire boat to limit out. Once the porgy limits were reached it was jigging for bluefish and this proved to be insane as well. There was even time for targeting striped bass and Thursday trip saw a bunch of striped bass to 25 pounds get chunked. Friday’s trip was a repeat of Thursday’s trip. Once the tide started a-rollin’, the porgies responded in force. When the tide became even stronger the bluefish showed up and it was lock-and-load fishing. Five keeper bass were rounded up as well with fish to 16 pounds hitting the decks.
John from Miller Place bait and Tackle reported that bass fishing this week was strong. Boaters are drifting whole clams through the rip lines and finding hungry bass in the 30 to 38 inch category. Other boating anglers opted to drift live eels at the Middle Grounds at night and found cooperating stripers for their efforts. John’s customers are really excited about the second season fluke opener, which will occur on Friday, July 3rd.
Stan from Rocky Point Fishing Stop said that the Rocky Point area and points in the nearby vicinity is “Porgy City”. Some of the scup reach in excess of 2.75-pounds with some even hitting or going slightly over 3-pounds. The buoy lines between 11 and 9 produced stripers this week for the chunker’s and diamond jiggers. Some of these bass were close to 30 pounds in weight.
All this striped bass, blue fish and scup harvest didn’t address the commercial harvest during the same period during a crummy week of weather in Long Island Sound.Striped bass in all sizes are active and healthy in the center of the striped bass summer
Note: Commercial Fishing in Long Island Sound for NY Commercial operations closed on July first for the year. There is no commercial striped bass fishing in Connecticut.
Between mid-December 2008 and June 30, 2009, Commercial anglers were required to tag every striped bass they caught with their predetermined allocation of striped bass tags and report the number of tagged fish they harvested each day until their individual allocation of tags were exhausted.
Seafly, where in the abundance of the fishing reports all along the Striper Coast do you find a lack of fish? Or a clue that makes you believe the species is in danger of disappearing?
Commercial Striped Bass fishing does no harm to the striped Bass bio mass with a 21% of the harvest, including bi-catch mistakes by other commercial operations targeting other edible species. Neither does the 79% of the striped bass that are harvested by recreational fishermen.
Individuals and organizations who wish for the Game state appellation have begun to lie about the integriety of the ASMFC without presenting any proof. Without submitting studies tof their own that show the numbers that the Technical Committee for the Atlantic Striped Bass are gathering from several sources are not factual.
Those biologists operate on a single rule. When in doubt, protect the resource.
I volunteered to work on a USFWS and NYSDEC Catch and Release study in the Hudson River that was conducted from April 30 to May 16, 2001. 30 recreational fishermen worked with the Feds and the Hudson River Fish Unit of DEC to catch 156 fish for the study. A small percentage of us used Circle Hooks and the majority used J hooks. That was only one study out of several that were used to gain knowledge about catch and release discards and their surivability over the years.
In your presentation of Stripers Forever goals you said at the end of a list of good common sense goals that Stripers Forever advocates this -
d) the ASMFC, as you very well know, is totally controlled by and run for the sole benefit of the commercial fishing industry not the fish. Trying to get them to enact responsible fishery regulations is like trying to push a piece of string uphill. It is wasted energy. They have a well documented history of irresponsible fishery management....and that is understated and being polite!
Seafly, Where did you get the idea that the Commercial Fishing interests controll ASMCFC? Hs Stripers Forever, ever published your accusation that ASMFC personnel are in the pocket of Commercial Fishinging Intrests?
There is nothing understated and polite about calling someones honesty and integrity to task with out any proof. Where do you get off going down the road
with slanderous lies like that. Do you have any proof?
Do you believet the Commercial Industry is the Boogieman? We are talking about, a very small fishery when your are discussing the number of fish harvested. A quarter of 1% of the striped bass population. :eek:
Does the state you live in have a commercial fishery? if not, have you looked up the commercial regulations that govern the taking of striped bass by a commercial fishing boat?
The commercial seasons are much shorter and their quotas are a 5th of most recreational quotas.
New York allows it commercial fishery a quote of 828,293 pounds and its recreational component 5,767,505 pounds.
ASMFC is the reason our striped bass population grew from 4.8 million in the early 1980's to over 65 million today. They have been excellent stewards of the fishery they are responsibile for. The Striped Bass comeback is their greates achievement.
Another fella agreed that ASMFC saved the striped bass from extinction and then went on to state "I think there are very few out there that wouldn't gladly give kudos to ASMFC for a job well done in the past, but that doesn't change what they're doing today. The ASMFC of today has grown timid - they're loathe to take action unless their hand is forced." Mattb posted
Yet he didn't say just what they were being timid about. Just left it hanging with out and factual support. Not good! Burping the ASFMC in on sentence and kicking them in the next.
Sea Fly,
In your last post on the other thread, you said
"Question: If all is right with the world of the striped bass, where are all the schoolies and the twinkies? Can anyone say for certain? Is the "science" of fish population assessments so accurate that we can afford to manage right up to the "perceived" maximum sustained yield? "
Can you say for certain the assesment numbers are so far off that the striped bass are in danger of extinction?
The ASMFC numbers are the best estimate of the biomass.
What better source is there than the ASMFC estimates? They know exactly what the number is for commercial fsihing harvests. Do you dispute that number?
How many million striped bass do you, standing where you fish, estimate are in the Atlantic Striped Bass population?
Do your sources extend beyond what you can see, hear or touch? What are your statistical sources, and how can they have better sources than the ASFMC?
You might want to re-read the July 1 fishing report just dealing with Bait Shops and head boats along the North Shore of Long Island before you reply.
Will you agree that those recreational fishermen, sailing to sea in Party boats catch more striped bass than all the fly fishermen and women along the Atlantic shore?
Could that count, made daily, where ever party and charter boats sail be one of the sources that the ASMFC is connected too?
The key to the ASMFC is the Technical Committees. That is where the numbers are crunched and inturpeted. The management (appointed leaders) depend on the integrity of their Technical Committees and the numbers they approve after long and sometime tough discussions. They care about the species, not the political crapolla or the desires of any given group, includin the recretional community.
They believe the numbers and they are the only true source for those numbers.
The numbers say there is room for commercial and recreational components.
What's not to like 'bout dat?
I was asked a question by seafly about waterfowl hunting compared to striped bass fishing. and didn't get a chance to answer it.
I would like to open the discussion with his question and my reply. And I would appreciate it if all parties leave their ANGST Buttons out side the thread. A full and far ranging discussion on Commercial fishing and it place in the harvest numbers of Striped bass is needed. And a full discussion of the growing recreational harvest and dead discards caused by surf fishing with bait and plugs, Party boat angling with bait and jigs, Fly fishing and the catch and release activities of all the different disciplines practiced by recreational anglers. I personally seek striped bass with flys 80% of the time, plugs 15% of the time and bait 5% of the time. I keep several bluefish annually that I catch with plugs or bait and two or three striped bass with flys. I crush my barbs and try not ot remove the fish from the water, if posible.
I believe that there is room for both commercial and recreational components in the Atlantic Striped Bass Fishery. We are at a crossroads and whether the Federal Registry of salt water anglers or its equivilant is accomplished by each state along the Striped Bass Atlantic Coast implementing a saltwater fishing license, the majority of us need to understand clearly what is at stake.
The partisan gouging between those who see no harm and some good in having a commercial fishery for striped bass and those who want to eleminate commercial fishing for striped bass is a classic devide and conquor move . Some folks believe they know what is best for the bass, and will not allow the thought of any option but theirs. That is ego at its worst. Ignoring the facts that do not fit their conception of what should be is a great falult. They can not believe that striped Bass have fully recovered, as announced in 1995 and since then the Atlantic Striped Bass Populaton has continued to expand. The ASMFC guidance for about ten years brought the Bass Population back from the brink and to full recovery in ten years.
Yet, in the next 14 years, some people, can not believe that the fully recovered species has continued to expand well beyond the figure determined in 1995.
There have been no natural disasters that have killed millions of striped bass and the commercial harvests are miniscule compared to the estimated biomass that was about 65 million striped bass in 2006.
Some important dates we all need to share as our common history concerning Striped Bass Management during the past 4 decades. I'm 70 years old and have fished for striped bass ssince 1951.
Early 1970s – Steady decline in the abundance of striped bass, particularly in the Chesapeake Bay stock, leading to a number of regulations designed to reverse the decline
1979 – Congress enacts an amendment to the Anadromous Fish Conservation Act specifying that an Emergency Striped Bass Study be undertaken to determine the status of the striped bass stocks and the causes for the decline in the striped bass population; study conducted each year from 1980 through 1994 and findings presented to Congress
1980s – Several states close their state waters to fishing for striped bass
1984 – Congress passes the Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act to enable a federal moratorium on striped bass fishing in states that fail to comply with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) Fishery Management Plan
1989 – Amendment 4 to the ASMFC FMP implemented, addressing the reopening of the fishery during the initial period of stock recovery; as stock status improved, revisions to management measures addressing the changing circumstances are allowed from 1989-1994
1990 – NOAA Fisheries Service implements a federal ban on the harvest and possession of striped bass in the EEZ to support efforts of the ASMFC and to aid in the recovery of east coast striped bass
1995 – Striped bass declared restored; Amendment 5 adopted, establishing a harvest level that would maintain the spawning stock biomass able to produce self-sustaining spawning stocks in each designated spawning area; also requires extensive monitoring and reporting requirements
1997 – Congress reauthorizes the Atlantic Striped Bass Conservation Act, mandating that the Secretaries of Commerce and the Interior provide biennial reports to Congress and the ASMFC on studies of the Atlantic striped bass resource
2003 – Amendment 6 to ASMFC FMP adopted; commercial components of the Amendment implemented in 2003, recreational implemented in 2004
2005 – Most recent stock assessment indicates that striped bass stocks are at high levels of abundance and are supporting increased landings, primarily in recreational fisheries
2006 - Dr. William Horgath, PH D testified before Congress and said this about the state of the Atlantic Striped Bass Population. “From an over-fished state in the mid-1980s, coastal stocks have recovered to high levels of abundance due to the coordinated actions of all management partners. The success has provided increased fishing opportunities in coastal states from Maine through North Carolina. In 1982, the abundance of striped bass stood at 4.8 million fish coast-wide, and today it is estimated to be a 65.3 million fish. The recovery of striped bass stocks clearly demonstrates that cooperative management by coastal states, federal agencies, and user groups is effective.”
2007 – An Executive Order encourages states, where applicable, to designate striped bass as a "gamefish" and prohibits commercial sale of striped bass caught in federal waters; striped bass raised through aquaculture operations and caught in state commercial fisheries are still be available to U.S. consumers in supermarkets and restaurants
2008 -Atlantic Striped Bass Removals by Fishery Component was published in the ASMFC Striped Bass Profile, September, 2008 . For 2006 Harvest removals by commercial and recreational fishery components.
Bi-Catch by the commercials and catch and release by the recreationals makes up the discarded percentages and fish numbers.
Commercial Harvest 17% - 1,049,587 fish
Discarded (bi-catch) 4% - 216,753 fish
****************************************
Recreational Harvest 45% - 2,774,542 fish
Discarded (Catch and Release) 34% - 2,072,334 fish
The commercial anglers took 21% of the fish and the recreational anglers took 79% of the fish harvested or dead discards
The health of the stock must be the determining factor .Total harvest including dead discards in 2006 was 6,113,216 fish killed out of an estimated population of more than 65 million striped bass is about 1 percent of the total population.
Seafly posted
commercial market hunting?
RJ,
Do you feel that the commercial taking and selling of waterfowl should be OK? The selling of most recreationally valuable natural resources has been legally declared off limits to commercial harvesting including all wild waterfowl. Wondering what you think makes wild stripers uniquely so different that they should be exempt from "game" status?
Seems to me that it is the striped bass's total value to society (not it's economic value alone) that should be the measure of whether it should be a "game" species as so many other recreationally "valuable" species alrerady are.
Seafly,
Your argument linking waterfowl to striped bass is not a valid one. I have hunted waterfowl since 1962 and have been the President or Director for two major Waterfowl Associations. For the past ten years I have sat on the NY State Waterfowl Season Setting Committee. And I represented the State of NJ for 6 years at the Atlantic Flyway Annual meeting. Waterfowl resources are much smaller and more easily harvested and damaged than striped bass. They do not have the protection of the great waters fish swim in. They are affected by many more potential disasters than fish will ever be. For example waterfowl breeding areas for Snow Geese and Canada Geese are more threatened by poor recruitment caused by lack of food and extreme weather conditions, not commercial or recreational harvests of those two populations. There hasn't been commercial market hunting of waterfowl since the mid 1930's .Then as now recreational hunters harvested more waterfowl than commercial market hunters ever did.
Waterfowl hunters, banded together and demanded seasons and bag limits in the 1930's where there never were limits before. Commercial waterfowl hunting was on its way out and only a few families in the Chesapeake Region were still hunting for the market in the 1930's. Market huntings heyday was in the 1800's and early 1900's. They supplied a much smaller population in major cities along the eastern seaboard. The rest of America shot ducks and geese for consumption at thier own tables.
Canvasback, greater and lesser scaup have been affected more by drought and farming practices in their breeding areas and the reduction of wintering area resources in the past 50 years than by hunting. Clean water filtration in the Lower Niagara River for example wiped out nutrients that were necessary for the growth of underwater plants in western Lake Ontario. That fact alone has led to a drastic reduction in a major diving duck wintering area. Ditto for Canvasbacks in the Finger Lakes. Barnagat Bay supported great bays of eel grass until a small canal let in too much sea water and the saline count went up and the grass died. Canvasback ducks and Atlantic Brant wintered there in their hundreds of thuosands. No more.
Cans are very rare and the Atlantic Brant you see today learned to survive on that ugly green and nasty tasting stuff called sea cabbage.
In the past six decades Greater Snow Populations cycles were affected by extreme weather and population over abundance twice. Once in the early 1940’s, when that species almost literally ate itself almost out of existence. The population crashed because they denuded their breeding ground and their wintering grounds.
Recreational hunting for the Atlantic Snow Goose was closed for almost 30 years. It reopened in the 1970’s with a single snow goose allowed in the daily harvest. Today, 30 years later, unlimited daily harvest is encouraged, because this species is close to crashing again, because of its huge size. In addition to the Greater Snow Goose (A Mid-Atlantic wintering species) the Lesser Snow Goose, whose winter range is in the Central and Pacific Flyway is also so abundant that the USFWS has allowed unlimited harvest and even electric calling devices and field baiting to increase the harvest. And Spring waterfowl hunting of both Lesser and Greater Snow Geese as they fly north to reproduce has also been encouraged by the federaland satae authorities. Waterfowl biologists fear that Snow Geese with suffer a huge die off thru starvation, again.
If you want to mix apples and oranges and try to make a valid connection between the game species status and waterfowl and striped bass, you might extrapolate the abundance of 65 million striped bass and their consumption of river herring and menhaden as a possibility that a striped bass abundance could cause a population crash, because they may gobbled up their food sources. Aside from that very small possibility, I do not think you can connect the end of market hunting watrfowl for any reason to the current state of affairs concerning striped bass.
The turn about from 4.8 million striped bass in the Coastal States from NC to ME since 1984 to the 65 million striped bass estimated in 2006 in a strong indicator that commercial fishing harvest are not affecting the status of striped bass. Commercial harvest of this species is regulated and inspected very closely.
Total commercial harvest for sale and bi-catch dead discards (1,266,340 fish) is 21% of the harvest, compared to the estimated recreational harvest and dead discards (4,846,876 fish) is 79% generated by recreational anglers.
Combined the two harvest components removed 6,113,216 striped bass from an estimated striped bass population of 65,000,000 fish . Leaves between 58 and 59 million striped bass available for growth and reproductive activities. The total harvest and dead discard amounts to 1% of the total.
Here is a fishing report I found about striped bass and other fish in Long Island Sound last week. A week that included a Nor’easter and tornado’s created from thunderstorms and extreme winds smack dab in the middle of the striper coast.
Weather limited the number of anglers along most of the striper coast. Yet those who went out found a lots of bass in all sizes except Twinky. Twink's remain in the lower reaches of most salt water tidal areas far enought to be missed by their bigger brethern and the yellow eyed devil the blue fish. When they get to be 15 or 16 inches long they exit the rivers and into the bays as the spawners come ine tothe rivers to spawn. There is a study that indicates that Hdson River immature striped bass move down the sides of the the river as mature bass move up the channel. The small bass move into tWestern Long Island sound and Raritan Bay
I have edited the website source and author, as they are not part of SOL.
July 1, 2009
“So I’m in Maine and I get a call from my brother. “Guess what’s swimming around in Northport Bay?” I guess a man-eating shark and I’m wrong. So I figure bluefin tuna, they like water temps in the low- to mid -60’s. Wrong again. I finally give up. “Dolphins!” I immediately think, “how can this be? Don’t dolphins (porpoises) like clean, pristine water?” I go online and sure as heck, I see a report from a local newpaper that porpoises were spotted in Huntington Bay. Speaking to various bait and tackle owners, this will not help out the local fishing, as you will see as you read further down in this report. The porpoises are feeding heavily on cocktail bluefish, bunker and schoolie to teen- size stripers.
Tom from Oyster Bay Marine Supply was one of those that think this will put a crimp on the fabulous bass bite to the west. On Thursday, Tom ventured out with Captain Ralph Novotny and they found a massive bunker school off Manhasset bay. They live-lined all the big bass, averaging 41- to 43-inches, one could dream of. They also had big bluefish to 10 pounds. By the weekend these fish were gone, probably all scattered from the hungry mammals. Tom also got in a bottom fishing trip at Buoy 32A. He and Carl Wozniak used clams to take 6 different species, a repeat performance of last week. The notable catches were porgies to 2.25 pounds and sea bass to 2 pounds. John Muscianisi was able to connect on a bass despite the porpoise issue. John caught a 28.5-pound striper at the end of the tide at Buoy 17. Gary Rinaldo boated a nice 27.25-pound bass at Buoy 15 on Thursday. And Anthony Palumbo ended the striped bass weigh-in parade at Oyster Bay Marine Supply with a 23-pound striper that he chunked at a mid-sound rock pile. He also had blues to 6 pounds on the chunk as well.
Richie from Bridge Marina in Bayville reported that porgies were the mainstay for his rental boat customers. Centre Island Reef, inside Oyster Bay Harbor and the bell buoy on the east side of Cold Spring Harbor were the places that produced good catches of medium to above average scup. Richie didn’t actually see any keeper bass this week and many of his customers said that the presence of porpoises in the area shut the bass fishing down.
Dean from Harbor Bait and Tackle in Halesite reported that his customers were shooting west for hot and heavy action on big bass. One customer trekked west and was rewarded with 28 bass to around 25-pounds. Another customer released close to 60 bass up to 35-pounds. Locally, the OB and various other spots in the Triangle produced keeper bass on chunks and by trolling parachute rigs. An 11-year old customer by the name of Tom caught his first ever striped bass. It measured 31-inches and weighed 14-pounds.
Rob from High Hook Bait and tackle in Huntington reported that Crab Meadow and Caumsett Beach were the places that his customers scored with keeper bass . There were reported catches of bluefish mixed in with these bass. A customer by the name of Ray duped a 29-pound linesider while chunking near Target Rock. Scott Mienzes chunked in the Triangle and took a 9-pound striper and a 10.5-pound bluefish. Rob also mentioned that big porgies were caught on worms and clams off the Brushpile and at the tip of Sand City. Clam baits accounted for bigger fish up to 15 inches.
Dave Jr. from Northport Rod and Reel said the hot bass fishing continued this week when the weather allowed one to venture off the dock. Ed Munno stopped the shop with stripers ranging from 26 to 31 pounds. All of these fish were chunked at or near Buoy 15. Tony Alessi chunked a nice 26-pound striper on Saturday morning, a fish that responded to a bunker head. Dave described the porgy fishing as astronomical at the Brushpile, Makamah Beach, the Golf Course and Sand City Point.
Sunrise Charters put their fares into very good striped bass fishing this week. One trip, led by Tom Law, iced 6 keeper bass to 22 pounds. All of these bass were bucktailed at Cranes Neck or the Middle Grounds. Most of the other trips accounted for bass to 20 pounds or so.
Ken Swaine of Swaine’s Bait and Tackle in St. James reported that stripers from 28- to 33 inches were caught this week by anglers using clams, worms and live eels. Mixed with these nice keeper size bass are bluefish and they go anywhere from 6 to 10 pounds. The bluefish respond to all the bass bait mentioned just now in addition to top-water and swimming plugs. Porgy fishing is very good and Ken said that the key is heavy, heavy chumming. You’ll have to sort through the smaller porgies but with enough chum in the water, the big guys will eventually hit. Overall, Ken said the fishing this week was superb despite the stormy weather which was encountered throughout the week.
Candy Caratis of Caraftis Fishing Station in Port Jeff reported that nice bass continued to be taken at Buoy 11 on chunks and diamond jigging and also by worm trolling in the inlet and inside of Port Jeff Harbor. Big porgies were also taken off Cranes Neck and Old Field this week and mixed in with them are a smattering of 3-pound bluefish.
Captain Barbara Fusco of Luv2fish Charters out of Mount Sinai slugged it out with the wind and rain to put bass from 28- to 32-inches in the boat. Barb deployed the use of jigs and surface plugs to get the attention of the bass. She also had good innings with porgies. It didn’t take long to fill a bucket of above average size scup.
On Sunday’s trip aboard the Osprey IV, the morning bite for porgies got off to a slow start but by afternoon, the porgies came to life and hit everything in sight with fish to 2 pounds. Captain Stew also put the fares into bluefish and some keeper bass.
Captain Desi O’Sullivan, the captain and owner of the Celtic Quest IV described Thursday’s and Friday’s trips as “borderline Ludicrous”. It was lock and load porgy fishing on Friday where it only took 30-minutes for the entire boat to limit out. Once the porgy limits were reached it was jigging for bluefish and this proved to be insane as well. There was even time for targeting striped bass and Thursday trip saw a bunch of striped bass to 25 pounds get chunked. Friday’s trip was a repeat of Thursday’s trip. Once the tide started a-rollin’, the porgies responded in force. When the tide became even stronger the bluefish showed up and it was lock-and-load fishing. Five keeper bass were rounded up as well with fish to 16 pounds hitting the decks.
John from Miller Place bait and Tackle reported that bass fishing this week was strong. Boaters are drifting whole clams through the rip lines and finding hungry bass in the 30 to 38 inch category. Other boating anglers opted to drift live eels at the Middle Grounds at night and found cooperating stripers for their efforts. John’s customers are really excited about the second season fluke opener, which will occur on Friday, July 3rd.
Stan from Rocky Point Fishing Stop said that the Rocky Point area and points in the nearby vicinity is “Porgy City”. Some of the scup reach in excess of 2.75-pounds with some even hitting or going slightly over 3-pounds. The buoy lines between 11 and 9 produced stripers this week for the chunker’s and diamond jiggers. Some of these bass were close to 30 pounds in weight.
All this striped bass, blue fish and scup harvest didn’t address the commercial harvest during the same period during a crummy week of weather in Long Island Sound.Striped bass in all sizes are active and healthy in the center of the striped bass summer
Note: Commercial Fishing in Long Island Sound for NY Commercial operations closed on July first for the year. There is no commercial striped bass fishing in Connecticut.
Between mid-December 2008 and June 30, 2009, Commercial anglers were required to tag every striped bass they caught with their predetermined allocation of striped bass tags and report the number of tagged fish they harvested each day until their individual allocation of tags were exhausted.
Seafly, where in the abundance of the fishing reports all along the Striper Coast do you find a lack of fish? Or a clue that makes you believe the species is in danger of disappearing?
Commercial Striped Bass fishing does no harm to the striped Bass bio mass with a 21% of the harvest, including bi-catch mistakes by other commercial operations targeting other edible species. Neither does the 79% of the striped bass that are harvested by recreational fishermen.
Individuals and organizations who wish for the Game state appellation have begun to lie about the integriety of the ASMFC without presenting any proof. Without submitting studies tof their own that show the numbers that the Technical Committee for the Atlantic Striped Bass are gathering from several sources are not factual.
Those biologists operate on a single rule. When in doubt, protect the resource.
I volunteered to work on a USFWS and NYSDEC Catch and Release study in the Hudson River that was conducted from April 30 to May 16, 2001. 30 recreational fishermen worked with the Feds and the Hudson River Fish Unit of DEC to catch 156 fish for the study. A small percentage of us used Circle Hooks and the majority used J hooks. That was only one study out of several that were used to gain knowledge about catch and release discards and their surivability over the years.
In your presentation of Stripers Forever goals you said at the end of a list of good common sense goals that Stripers Forever advocates this -
d) the ASMFC, as you very well know, is totally controlled by and run for the sole benefit of the commercial fishing industry not the fish. Trying to get them to enact responsible fishery regulations is like trying to push a piece of string uphill. It is wasted energy. They have a well documented history of irresponsible fishery management....and that is understated and being polite!
Seafly, Where did you get the idea that the Commercial Fishing interests controll ASMCFC? Hs Stripers Forever, ever published your accusation that ASMFC personnel are in the pocket of Commercial Fishinging Intrests?
There is nothing understated and polite about calling someones honesty and integrity to task with out any proof. Where do you get off going down the road
with slanderous lies like that. Do you have any proof?
Do you believet the Commercial Industry is the Boogieman? We are talking about, a very small fishery when your are discussing the number of fish harvested. A quarter of 1% of the striped bass population. :eek:
Does the state you live in have a commercial fishery? if not, have you looked up the commercial regulations that govern the taking of striped bass by a commercial fishing boat?
The commercial seasons are much shorter and their quotas are a 5th of most recreational quotas.
New York allows it commercial fishery a quote of 828,293 pounds and its recreational component 5,767,505 pounds.
ASMFC is the reason our striped bass population grew from 4.8 million in the early 1980's to over 65 million today. They have been excellent stewards of the fishery they are responsibile for. The Striped Bass comeback is their greates achievement.
Another fella agreed that ASMFC saved the striped bass from extinction and then went on to state "I think there are very few out there that wouldn't gladly give kudos to ASMFC for a job well done in the past, but that doesn't change what they're doing today. The ASMFC of today has grown timid - they're loathe to take action unless their hand is forced." Mattb posted
Yet he didn't say just what they were being timid about. Just left it hanging with out and factual support. Not good! Burping the ASFMC in on sentence and kicking them in the next.
Sea Fly,
In your last post on the other thread, you said
"Question: If all is right with the world of the striped bass, where are all the schoolies and the twinkies? Can anyone say for certain? Is the "science" of fish population assessments so accurate that we can afford to manage right up to the "perceived" maximum sustained yield? "
Can you say for certain the assesment numbers are so far off that the striped bass are in danger of extinction?
The ASMFC numbers are the best estimate of the biomass.
What better source is there than the ASMFC estimates? They know exactly what the number is for commercial fsihing harvests. Do you dispute that number?
How many million striped bass do you, standing where you fish, estimate are in the Atlantic Striped Bass population?
Do your sources extend beyond what you can see, hear or touch? What are your statistical sources, and how can they have better sources than the ASFMC?
You might want to re-read the July 1 fishing report just dealing with Bait Shops and head boats along the North Shore of Long Island before you reply.
Will you agree that those recreational fishermen, sailing to sea in Party boats catch more striped bass than all the fly fishermen and women along the Atlantic shore?
Could that count, made daily, where ever party and charter boats sail be one of the sources that the ASMFC is connected too?
The key to the ASMFC is the Technical Committees. That is where the numbers are crunched and inturpeted. The management (appointed leaders) depend on the integrity of their Technical Committees and the numbers they approve after long and sometime tough discussions. They care about the species, not the political crapolla or the desires of any given group, includin the recretional community.
They believe the numbers and they are the only true source for those numbers.
The numbers say there is room for commercial and recreational components.
What's not to like 'bout dat?