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View Full Version : Fly fishing on Stellwagen


BillyD123
07-08-2009, 12:48 PM
Mon. morning was calm as it gets so I headed out to the bank from Winthrop for some Whale watching. Hundreds of Whales to be seen etc... Also hundreds of obese 40 inch + Striped Bass finning all around my boat as well.
In a nutshell, can someone let me know if it's legal to fly fish for them?

BobG
07-08-2009, 12:57 PM
If it's in the EEZ I'm guessing it isn't. I was saying the same thing to someone the other day. I'm not much into tuna, but I'd love to get into those 40"-50" fish on a 12wt. But I was told you're not allowed to target them.

salamid
07-08-2009, 01:25 PM
Taking or retaining striped bass caught in federal waters is illegal under current federal rules meant to conserve the species. Also, it is illegal to possess striped bass on board a vessel in federal waters.

Taken from a NMFS post

Not supposed to fish for them beyond 3 miles

BillyD123
07-08-2009, 01:41 PM
I'm strictly catch and release with the fly. Too bad there isn't exceptions for that kind of thing.
Is there a link or site that explains it clearly? A permit? I can't seem to find the regs...

Shark Bait(2)
07-08-2009, 03:26 PM
"Catch and release" does not matter. Targeting stripers is illegal outside of state waters. Last year I was boarded for inspection by the CG had the wife and daughter onboard. We went to LL for some whale watching but I was doing some trolling with XRaps in the off chance of getting lucky and hooking up on a tuna. We hooked two enormous stripers in the 48" range. I did mention this to the CG indicating that I knew it was illegal to keep them. His immediate reply was "it is illegal to even target them" in the EEZ.

DAQ
07-08-2009, 07:10 PM
http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/af/sbass/

brianmoc
07-08-2009, 08:40 PM
its illegal jack/// to Targeting stripers there, if it was not they would all be gone!

BillyD123
07-09-2009, 07:44 AM
its illegal jack/// to Targeting stripers there, if it was not they would all be gone!
Okay Jack! Got your message Jack! ???
Well, I guess all the Cod & Haddock will be all gone too? I think you can open the Bass fishing up to recreational fishing with restrictions.
Federal permits, no bait or SS hooks, catch & release, not lifting the Bass out of the water for pics or measuring etc... I think a lot can be done to reform the laws and still protect the species.
Believe me, there's boats out there every day targeting Bass. Gut hooking them on cut or live bait. With the excuse that they're going after Tuna.

Nozzle Tov!
07-09-2009, 08:33 AM
"Well, I guess all the Cod & Haddock will be all gone too?"
Yeah, they're all fished out.

"Believe me, there's boats out there every day targeting Bass. Gut hooking them on cut or live bait. With the excuse that they're going after Tuna."
You're probably right. So what's your solution to this illegal practice?

"I think you can open the Bass fishing up to recreational fishing with restrictions."
Brilliant! Those gut hooking bass poachers will stop the day the restrictions are put in place.

Onshore
07-09-2009, 10:09 AM
Okay Jack! Got your message Jack! ???
Well, I guess all the Cod & Haddock will be all gone too? I think you can open the Bass fishing up to recreational fishing with restrictions.
Federal permits, no bait or SS hooks, catch & release, not lifting the Bass out of the water for pics or measuring etc... I think a lot can be done to reform the laws and still protect the species.
Believe me, there's boats out there every day targeting Bass. Gut hooking them on cut or live bait. With the excuse that they're going after Tuna.

And before the season ends the federal wardens will descend on that fleet and bust a bunch of boats as they have done elsewhere - off chatham, off New Hampshire and on Stellwagen in the past.

ASMFC considered requesting NMFS to open the EEZ to fishing a few years back but it was the recreational anglers who objected strongly. IMHO it should be open as it always was and we had great fishing before the closure.,

Capt Dave
07-09-2009, 10:44 AM
FYI---EPO's have been out there the past few days in undercover boats watching and boarding people.

uptonfloyd
07-09-2009, 10:52 AM
To be a fisherman is to practice your passtime surrounded by many who care not for adhering to regulations...what I like to call cheaters.

You see them all the time. They're the guys who fish without licenses on the fresh water...the ones who yank in an undersized striper and hide it under the sand so they can skulk away later...or quick take the fillets and leave the carcases on the shore...heck, in the middle of epic big striper fishing in Boston Harbor last year I saw a guy alone on his boat gaffing stripers...

Would I decimate the species by keeping a 27-inch striper? Doubtful. But would I be breaking the rules? Yes. And so I don't do it, despite the fact that so many out there do.

I would say that 99.99% of people who post on this board are passionate enough about fishing that they would never break a rule. But my experienmce tells me that this grouop is in the minority...

I wouldn't advocate for changing any current regulations (okay, maybe a slot limit and only one striper per day), but I wish they would jack up the fines for fishing illegally to the sky so that it would be worth targetting illegal fishermen the same way state and local police are targetting speeders in this down economy.

My back and knee hurt...so I'll get off the soapbox...

LeakinLena
07-09-2009, 01:24 PM
I could be mistaken... but the only official refernce I can find that references fishing in Stellwagen Sanctuary indicates that if you have the correct permits you can fish there (http://fraser.nos.noaa.gov/about/faq.html#fishing). If there is a federal regulation against taking striped bass in federal waters it doesn't mention it, but even if there is some of Stellwagen Bank is well within the state controlled waters shown on the NMFS chart.

I have not done an exhaustive search so maybe someone can direct us to the correct reference(s) that prohibits the taking of striped bass on Stellwagen Bank.

RogerStg
07-09-2009, 02:52 PM
A simple search by googling "eez striped bass" will yield a wealth of reading.

bostoned
07-09-2009, 03:10 PM
I couldn't agree more with Uptonfloyd on the subject. You have a very small minority of the fishing population on this site. Most of whom I am sure fall the letter of the law very closely. However, I sure there are people even here that are not saints.

How many posts are there about people here seeing people keeping shorts, keeping more than is legal, etc. Open up the EEZ and you will have even more people breaking the law out there than are doing so right now.

Hoffer
07-09-2009, 03:17 PM
Leakinlena & BillyD,

You're good to go. Hit Stellwagen tomorrow on a big bass trip. Make sure you each keep the two fish you are allowed to keep.

Tight lines!

BillyD123
07-09-2009, 04:21 PM
I visited this site http://stellwagen.noaa.gov/visit/fishingrec/eezregulations.html
Seems pretty clear. And appears the reg will only keep the honest people honest, nothing more. From what I've been hearing it's hard to prove one wasn't tageting BFT when hooking up with a Bass.
I understand the law and do comply. My point is that things can be changed to open it for the recreational fisher without compromising the species.
BTW... I have my Atlantic HMS Angling Permit and only cast for SBFT & Bluefish in the EEZ.

Onshore
07-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Leakinlena & BillyD, You're good to go. Hit Stellwagen tomorrow on a big bass trip. Make sure you each keep the two fish you are allowed to keep. Tight lines!

Was this supposed to be funny? Why bother to post if you have nothing to contribute ? Must be about time for the moderator to lock it.

IFSteve
07-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Ok, then I guess the only answer is that you can't fish there at all since there is no way to ensure that you fish for tuna and never hook a striper.:confused:

LeakinLena
07-10-2009, 07:58 AM
BillyD123

Thanks for the reference... I need to practice my site search skills!

It appears that fishing for tuna is OK, but the problem is who gets to interpret your intent. A lot of techniques for tuna will catch strped bass. This seems like another law written for the lowest common denominator and the enforcement agencies shouldn't and can't make this determination. It reminds me of the federal waterfowl baiting laws that claimed you were guilty of baiting even if someone else had baited the area without your knowledge. The baiting law was challeged by a defendant who won.

It also seems like a serious infringement on the peoples' right to navigate. Based on the chart if I catch a keeper at Race Point and want to go to Gloucester I have to go about 10 miles out of my way. Any body want to guess who should pay for that extra fuel?

Perch
07-10-2009, 08:07 AM
My understanding is that one is permitted to have two stripers on board on Stellwagen, provided he is in transit and under power (not fishing), say from Race Point to Boston. Is this correct?

LeakinLena
07-10-2009, 08:14 AM
Actually I think the way the regulation is written provides an possession exemption only in the areas listed in #3 which does not include any place near Boston.

Capt Dave
07-10-2009, 08:32 AM
My understanding is that one is permitted to have two stripers on board on Stellwagen, provided he is in transit and under power (not fishing), say from Race Point to Boston. Is this correct?

No, not correct at all.

Incidental catch and release of stripers in the EZZ is ok and expected by the EPO's, targetting them is another issue that is not allowed.

As mentioned, while the techniques for tuna will also catch stripers, it's the gear the EPO's will home in on. If your fishing light gear usually used for bass (20-30 lb gear or light fly rods) and tell them your targetting tuna, they aren't gonna buy it. If you tell them your going for bluefish on the same gear with only mono or flouro leader, they aren't gonna buy that either. But if your catching stripers on gear that is truely capable of catching tuna (30/50 class reels, spinning gear designed for tuna, etc...) you won't have a problem as long as your not boating the fish and release immediately with minimal harm.

LeakinLena
07-10-2009, 08:50 AM
It still looks like you can't transport them through the EEZ at Stelllwagen. Can you say "long way around?"

Joe Hale
07-10-2009, 09:16 PM
Just trying to be legal. This means that if I pick up a fish in the harbor, push to the NWC, then I could be in trouble? That is probably okay with me as I rarely keep a fish (is my halo straight or maybe I just don't catch that many keepers) and if I did I would stay in the Haba.

Also, just as a guideline when being watched targeting bluefish, how many stripers can you catch and release before you are judged a jerk? I don't use wire, I use 8 inches of 80# floro and do my damndest to set the hook quick. If you have trouble releasing one and pull it into the boat for proper attention before releasing it, is that possession?

Somebody commented that if you are using "light tackle" and "claim" to be targeting bluefin but catch a striper that you could be in trouble. Also confusing. Nothing can be better than connecting with a SBFT on light tackle or a 10-12 wgt.

I think it is okay to keep it this way, keep a few cows out of the cooler. I just don't want to get in trouble. So what the hell do you do when you drop a fast jig looking for (Cod, Haddock, SBFT, Bluefish) and pick up a striper? So far, I have enjoyed the fight, and released the fish as undamaged as possible. Now I feel guilty.

Striper as bycatch. Can I throw one back dead?

BobG
07-10-2009, 10:35 PM
So of you're out in the EEZ with a 12wt, and a intermediate tuna line throwing large sand eel patterns for 40-50" bass. When you're boarded, will the EPO's buy the story when you say "I'm fishing for sbft sir"?

FlyFishFrostie
07-10-2009, 11:03 PM
You can fish for bluefish out on Stellwagen, though, right? Ooops, some 50" stripers were mixed in. Dang! :brow

Please, circles or barbless, just in case. Then, the EPOs (or the judge) might be more understanding of your good intentions.;)

Onshore
07-11-2009, 09:12 AM
You can fish for bluefish out on Stellwagen, though, right? Ooops, some 50" stripers were mixed in. Dang! :brow

Please, circles or barbless, just in case. Then, the EPOs (or the judge) might be more understanding of your good intentions.;)

I've seen the federal fishcops operate twice in the EEZ. Once near Jeffries and again off Chatham. When they "organize" one of those operations they usually have a couple of unmarked sports fishing boats with guys in civis fishing and watching the area action and video taping it too. Then there will be a couple or more fly-overs by CG or AF jets and or helicopters. Once they decide who is obviously targeting bass, one of the copters will hover over the most flagrant and the little boats move in from away out on the horizon - NMFS warden boats, CG and homeland security too. It can be pretty impressive to watch. Once, on Jeffries, we watched a CG Buoy Tender on the horizon for several hours. That's where the little inflatables came from.

Why would anyone even chance being bagged ?

BobG
07-11-2009, 09:47 AM
I've seen the federal fishcops operate twice in the EEZ. Once near Jeffries and again off Chatham. When they "organize" one of those operations they usually have a couple of unmarked sports fishing boats with guys in civis fishing and watching the area action and video taping it too. Then there will be a couple or more fly-overs by CG or AF jets and or helicopters. Once they decide who is obviously targeting bass, one of the copters will hover over the most flagrant and the little boats move in from away out on the horizon - NMFS warden boats, CG and homeland security too. It can be pretty impressive to watch. Once, on Jeffries, we watched a CG Buoy Tender on the horizon for several hours. That's where the little inflatables came from.

Why would anyone even chance being bagged ?

WOW!:eek: Doesn't this seem like a tremendous amount of overkill for a species the feds insist is thriving?(#$119) Jets, copters, unmarked sport vessels, homeland security, CG, AF, video tape...Just imagine the fuel used in these sort of operations and you're left wondering, does the means justify the end?:rolleyes:

z-drive
07-11-2009, 10:54 AM
SBFT! --126-3- --126-3- jj's favorite term.

Moral of the story is don't go out there bass fishing. if you're already there and one happens to end up on the end of your line, enjoy it then release it. unless you have them in the cooler, or have real light tackle out and rigged you're probably a-ok. SBFT! on a 12weight....i'll stick to the gym for a workout.

BillyD123
07-11-2009, 11:17 AM
In the case of fly fishing:
If you stay in an area that has only surface feeding Bass. I would think you're targeting Bass, right? It doesn't take to much effort to tell the splashes are
24" Bluefish and not 40" Bass or SBFT.
If it's obviously a mix, which can happen. I'd say you can fish without guilt of hooking a cow or two.
On the other hand, as far as tackle goes? I fish with 10 wts. I'd have no problem chasing 3'-4' footballs with my inexpensive gear even tho the chances of me getting spooled or busted up are pretty good.
Like it's been said, you are probably being watched for signs of intent. Catch a Bass & no signs of anything else, you's better change locations eh?
This may sound like discrimination but, (just say) if I'm fishing within a large group of boats and the Federales move in. I'd expect them to be more concerned with the $100k 30' sport fishers that have 5-6 on board chunk bait fishing. Rather than me in my 30k 21' center console using fly gear.

Onshore
07-11-2009, 12:59 PM
WOW!:eek: Doesn't this seem like a tremendous amount of overkill for a species the feds insist is thriving?(#$119) Jets, copters, unmarked sport vessels, homeland security, CG, AF, video tape...Just imagine the fuel used in these sort of operations and you're left wondering, does the means justify the end?:rolleyes:

According to a friend who is a NMFS Patrolman, they use the exercises as practice for eventual combined operations for emergencies and usually enclude state marine patrol boats on the EEZ line to pick up those heading in to avoid the sting. A large part of the cost comes out of the HSA budget.

Perch
07-12-2009, 08:48 AM
I have a friend who likes to hook these 150# tuna with a nine weight, get one good run and break them off. Fighting one to the boat, he says, would kill them both. If he's lucky, he'll leave two barbless flies in tuna a season. Would an EPO really bust him because his tackle is light? I don't think so. Every EPO I've known uses good judgement.

--username-deleted--
07-12-2009, 09:14 AM
Every EPO I've know uses good judgement.

BATTER UP! :rolleyes:

Albiemanmike
07-12-2009, 11:57 PM
Look the rules are pretty plain and simple NO BASS BEYOND 3 MILES.....PERIOD! Just because there are monster bass out there (I heard a report a week ago or so from a guy who was tuna fishing that hooked and landed a 55" bass while tuna jigging) doesn't mean you should go out there and fish for them it's illegal as previously discussed. It isn't fair but it is the law. I have been fishing those areas the past three years for tuna exclusively and I hear and see guy's all the time intentionally fishing for and catching these large bass. Their time is coming and they will not be happy with the outcome. I have wanted to do it myself on those slow days but don't as the price to pay is too high and it isn't legal. I have caught bass while jigging for tuna and quickly released them boatside but this was on tuna specific gear and the fight/fun factor was nil due to the tackle employed.

Intentionally targeting tuna on gear not designed for them is plainly irresponsible. Just think about the tuna you just hooked and broke off now trailing around 400-500 ft. of fishing line?? Have you ever run the line on your reel out behind the boat to get the twist out, remember how much drag there was on the line with nothing attached to the end??? How long do you think the tuna is going to survive with all of that line dragging behind it...........Answer: Not Long! I have invested a ton of money over the past three years in order to target the tuna successfully with the proper gear, I had to upgrade my gear again this year as the fish are significantly larger this year. I am not rich but will spend what I have to when I have to so that I can ensure the tuna is not wasted or needlessly killed. So you who target them just for fun to see what it feels like please do everyone a favor and go target some sunfish in the local farm pond.


IDIOTS!

LeakinLena
07-13-2009, 06:18 AM
No one has addressed the requirement that you have to navigate around the EEZ if you have a striper on board. The "one size fits all" aspect of the law is poorly written (as the law itself acknowledges with the Block Island area exemption) and a waste of time and money to obey. I think it's fine if they want to protect stripers in a certain area but you can't penalize fisherman for not wasting fuel and time. The law should prohibit keeping stripers caught in the EEZ...period. No one can really determine what fish you intend to catch by observing your methods. They can observe you catching and keeping stripers and ticket and fine you for it, but the fish don't care what tackle you are using. Sabiki rigs catch stripers well when the prevailing bait is really small, but I doubt anyone would claim you were targeting stripers if you were using one. The point should be that you haven't really broken any laws until you catch and keep a striper from the EEZ. The possesion part of the law just makes it harder to obey and easier enforce, which are both bad criteria for making law.

Onshore
07-13-2009, 07:47 AM
Intentionally targeting tuna on gear not designed for them is plainly irresponsible. Just think about the tuna you just hooked and broke off now trailing around 400-500 ft. of fishing line?? Have you ever run the line on your reel out behind the boat to get the twist out, remember how much drag there was on the line with nothing attached to the end??? How long do you think the tuna is going to survive with all of that line dragging behind it...........Answer: Not Long! I have invested a ton of money over the past three years in order to target the tuna successfully with the proper gear, I had to upgrade my gear again this year as the fish are significantly larger this year. I am not rich but will spend what I have to when I have to so that I can ensure the tuna is not wasted or needlessly killed. So you who target them just for fun to see what it feels like please do everyone a favor and go target some sunfish in the local farm pond. IDIOTS!

Well said, Mike

Albiemanmike
07-13-2009, 09:10 AM
No one has addressed the requirement that you have to navigate around the EEZ if you have a striper on board. The "one size fits all" aspect of the law is poorly written (as the law itself acknowledges with the Block Island area exemption) and a waste of time and money to obey. I think it's fine if they want to protect stripers in a certain area but you can't penalize fisherman for not wasting fuel and time. The law should prohibit keeping stripers caught in the EEZ...period. No one can really determine what fish you intend to catch by observing your methods. They can observe you catching and keeping stripers and ticket and fine you for it, but the fish don't care what tackle you are using. Sabiki rigs catch stripers well when the prevailing bait is really small, but I doubt anyone would claim you were targeting stripers if you were using one. The point should be that you haven't really broken any laws until you catch and keep a striper from the EEZ. The possesion part of the law just makes it harder to obey and easier enforce, which are both bad criteria for making law.


I hate to be confrontational but your questions are pretty rediculous. The law is the law whether you like it or not it ain't going to change. It is no different than most of the fishing regulations on the books. I don't agree but have to abide by the rules. If you don' think they can figure out what you are fishing for than by all means go for it I for one will be very interested in the outcome should you be boarded and cited. Whether the law is good or bad is irrelevent it is a LAW!

You cannot TARGET nor POSSESS striped bass outside the 3 mi. zone (EEZ) pretty straight forward!

z-drive
07-13-2009, 09:31 AM
what if they came up with a law saying you couldn't target or posess a bluefish or skate within the 3 mile line? just saying.

Albiemanmike
07-13-2009, 09:44 AM
what if they came up with a law saying you couldn't target or posess a bluefish or skate within the 3 mile line? just saying.

????
Still would be a law just like the one on the books now. What would be the difference???

It is just mind boggling that people can't understand the regs as they are written. This has been discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. I don't agree with most of the regs on the books, some of them should be blown up, but that doesn't preclude me from following them just because I don't agree or feel they are fair. If someone wants to test the validity of the current regs I am all for it and will sit back and see what happens after the smoke and dust settles. Me I will just keep abiding by the RULES and fish within the confines of the screwed up system we have in place. They just enacted a saltwater license in CT. and I can't tell you how bent I am about that, just assinine, but I can assure you the day they passed it for good I went to the website and paid my dues grudgingly. I could have said screw it and them but you know that sooner or later that would catch up to me and I would be paying the piper for not following the rules!

SquidHoundah
07-13-2009, 03:50 PM
That is why I target Bluefish when I am at Stellwagen with my 12 weight. Unfortunately, I hook into those 30-40lbs. bass. What an annoying by-catch.

BobG
07-13-2009, 04:02 PM
That is why I target Bluefish when I am at Stellwagen with my 12 weight. Unfortunately, I hook into those 30-40lbs. bass. What an annoying by-catch.

That's sort of where I was going with this when I said if boarded, I could say I was fishing for sbft (or as you said, bluefish). Perhaps they should make ALL fishing verboten in the EEZ. That way they can effectively close this easily exploited, difficult to enforce, vauge/open to different interpretaions, loophole.
Unless of course they don't want to close the loophole in the first place?:brow

z-drive
07-13-2009, 05:29 PM
mid june i was out taking a look for chalie and doing some groundfishing. well lots of times the cod and haddock are under the sandeels, right? nah. well we get drifting good, time to drop the jig. some reason they won't hit the bottom, and end up in the mouth of 30something pound bass every drop. BYCATCH! i've caught bass on the bottom in 100+' of water...is that targeting them? no.

BillyD123
07-13-2009, 07:27 PM
"No one can really determine what fish you intend to catch by observing your methods" I agree somewhat with that. It's a very grey area indeed. Although I've seen things that have shocked me as far as methods go. Just bad sportsmanship while hooking Bass only.
I also agree with "Unless of course they don't want to close the loophole in the first place?"
I understand black and white, okay. I also understand human nature as well. Reading the regs concerning this topic, I have to ask why it's written the way it is. It's rigid regarding the possession of Bass. Not so, regarding catching them. As long as there not targeted. Which is very difficult to prove, right. To me, It's a possession regulation more than fishing or method law. The intent of the regs is to protect the fishery, no doubt. So, if a Bass or two get caught and released while one is out there enjoying themselves? It's still protected.
Kind of reminds me of something an old Jewish man I knew told me. He summed up his philosophy on how his ran his sheet metal plant as. "I pay them a little, but I let them steal a little."
If in fact the Feds are out there observing & video taping, I believe they may need evidence of multiple date infractions to inforce the law.
Anyway, a fly fishing buddy of mine from NH. just called and wants to do some fishing out on the South West Corner this Thursday morning. "Weather permitting" I told him. I also let him know that we have to target Bluefish etc... just something other than Bass. Suggested that he prep up some wire leaders before hand.
For those here who are Fly or light tackle guys. Be honest with yourself. Just say you're out there some morning with a pal in a center console looking to get into some fun action on top. With the presumption of course that, you are not deliberately targeting Bass. So you see a tight group of birds working the surface so you buzz over to them. You just happen to be the only ones around as well. What do you do next?
1) Say to yourself "Whatever is under that bait, I don't care. I want to hook a big Bass"?
2) Wait until you can visually identify what type of fish may be under the bait before you make a cast?
3) Make a cast with the intention to hook up with the unknown? If you determine by a follow or by catch, "no pun intended" That the fish under the bait are Bass. Release the Bass immediately and responsibly if caught. Then move on to another area.
4) Something else?

My personal view is the law was written to allow # 3

dcobbett
07-13-2009, 07:43 PM
You must be a lawyer.

north coast
07-13-2009, 08:46 PM
FWIW. There are many, many boats on the bank, every nice day, for the sole purpose of targeting bass. When the bass are there, I see it every year,every time I go tuna fishing. Your easy to spot, I see you all the time, there's no doubt about what your doing, and the feds,if looking,will see you too.

Onshore
07-13-2009, 09:49 PM
FWIW. There are many, many boats on the bank, every nice day, for the sole purpose of targeting bass. When the bass are there, I see it every year,every time I go tuna fishing. Your easy to spot, I see you all the time, there's no doubt about what your doing, and the feds,if looking,will see you too.

That's right and, those guys are fishermen too. If you think you can talk your way out of it if your caught targeting Stripers,guess again. It aint worth it.

BobG
07-13-2009, 11:06 PM
If this were a Star Trek episode, Dr Spock would say, "Let us look at this logically."

"Which of the two species is more threatened? The BFT or the striped bass?"
The Feds staunchly maintain the bass are thriving, and near record numbers. While the Atlantic bft are imperiled. Logic seems to dictate we allow the bass to be fished, and protect the tuna. But for some reason, the Feds see it the other way around.:confused:

BillyD123
07-14-2009, 08:03 AM
Spock would read the entire thread and say "Fascinating"
Okay, we've derermined that targeting Bass goes on every day by a number of boats. Some flagrant in there methods as well. Also, the Feds are out there targeting the law breakers. I'm sure the Feds have a hull # list of suspected Perp's that they're keeping an eye out for. Like I said earlier, multiple observations on seperate dates can make a case for a summons, arrest or seizure etc....
If I were an Officer out there. I wouldn't want to have the reputation in the office, or the court room as someone who busts the "Little Guy" And certainly woudn't write a summons if it coud be easily beat in court.
For myself? I'm not going to post here, that "I cannot tell a lie" or "I've never broken the law" Or "No matter what, I follow the law blindly, until it is changed"
However, I can say "The Feds, EP & CG can board me at anytime, anywhere. And not find a safety, or fishing violation"

RogerStg
07-14-2009, 02:06 PM
If this were a Star Trek episode, Dr Spock would say, "Let us look at this logically.":

No he wouldn't - there was no DR Spock in star trek. Dr Spock was the baby expert that didn't have any kids.;)

BobG
07-14-2009, 02:58 PM
No he wouldn't - there was no DR Spock in star trek. Dr Spock was the baby expert that didn't have any kids.;)

--125-3You're right. I don't where where that came from?:confused:

But who knows, maybe Dr Spock the pediatrician might have felt the same way?

SteepBank
07-14-2009, 04:57 PM
This is not unlike the broodstock salmon up on the Pemi in NH. You have to have a tag to fish for them however the fishery has browns rainbows and what have you in it as well...to make it even worse many folks use streamers to target the browns and rainbows...the fish also stay in the same lies...I asked a game warden about this and he admitted its pretty difficult to prove unless you actually see them catching a salmon...then they will check for a tag at that point..I kinda laughed because this is similar on a much larger scale..

Joe Hale
07-14-2009, 06:18 PM
I only hope that we get another generation of those 27 to 36 inch SBFT again. That was really a blast.

No doubt that those 150# plus brutes out there are beyond my equipment, but it is sure nice to see them come up every once in a while. I will resist the temptation if they are obviously beyond my capacity.

No harm in looking though.

Tide Hunter
07-14-2009, 10:41 PM
It is illegal to "Posses" striped bass on Stellwagen or in Federal waters PERIOD, although the term "Posses" is broad and open to interpretation. I routinely jig for tuna with spinning tackle, on Stellwagen. Hook a ton of bass, reel them in, unhook them and drop them back over the side. If an EP wanted to, he could bust me for "possession". They don't want to. They are looking for guys KEEPING bass in federal waters.

It is Illegal to transport bass across Stellwagen, or Federal waters (although there is an exception for somewhere near Block Island but I am not familiar with it). If I am fishing in state waters, on the backside of P-Town and want to go back to Scituate or Boston, I have to alter my course and keep well south (3miles+-) of the Southwest Corner, or I will be in violation. Do I think the EPs would bust me, NO, but they could.

Targeting stripers in the EZE is a no, no. But who's to say what you are targeting and what your methods should be. If you get boarded and an EP asks you what you are fishing for, and you say tuna, you better have a permit. If you say stripers, you are stupid, an will be in trouble. If you say bluefish, he may not believe you but won't be able to prove otherwise. Doesn't matter what type of leader you are using, I like to catch blues with an 80# mono leader, Some days they won't touch steel. The EP's aren't going to critique your fishing style. Now, if they think you are dicking with them, they might invite you onto their boat for a full cavity search (well within their right).

What it boils down to is, don't have any stripers in your cooler. Don't be out there without a tuna permit. Don't target stripers. If you accidentally catch a few, be careful with them, and let them go as quickly as possible. And if you get boarded by the EP or Feds, be nice, they are just doing their job. They are looking to bust OFFENDERS, not harass fishermen.


IMHO it would be a very BAD idea to open the bank to striped bass fishing.

BobG
07-14-2009, 11:15 PM
Specifically, why would it be a bad idea to open up the bank to striped bass fishing?

Tide Hunter
07-15-2009, 06:02 AM
Specifically, why would it be a bad idea to open up the bank to striped bass fishing?

Bob, I will assume you mean open for commercial
and recreational, same rules as MA waters.

Simple answer, the bass would be fished hard, just like at Race Pt, Scorton Ledge, Billingsgate Shoal, Quicks Hole......... There would be fewer bass to catch and after the first week of commercial season, a good portion of the bass would be gone.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against commercial bass fishing, that's why I think it is a good idea to for the bass to have a safe zone, where nobody can touch them. Let them grow and multiply, sooner or later, when Stellwagen has too many bass to sustain, some will move to where we can catch them.

It's kind of like the Cod Conservation Zone in Mass Bay. Come November, it's frustrating to know for a fact that there are piles of 30-50lb cod, about 10 miles from Scituate, but you can't fish for them. I just keep reminding myself it's what is best for the whole fishery.

Some watered down form of "open" or C&R only would, IMHO be a political move to further the cause of the Stripers Forever crowd, but it's a slippery slope to all C&R, which I am totally against.

Just my opinion. I am sure many won't agree with it.

BobG
07-15-2009, 06:21 AM
T-hunter,

I understand what you're saying. But as far as the comm season goes (and I'm not against it either), if the comm's are fishing to a strict quota, then what difference does it make where the bass come from? 900,000 lbs is 900,000 lbs (if that's the approx quota) regardless of where it's caught. They don't spawn on the bank, only go there to feed on the abundant bait supply.
Again, not looking to start an argument, just my $0.02.;)

LeakinLena
07-15-2009, 08:11 AM
Albie Man

The claim that it doesn't matter whether it is good law or bad law is exactly why we have bad laws. If we don't make a stink about it the government will continue to impose their foolish agenda on citizens.

Bad laws make people behave badly; like navigating around the EEZ with a legally caught striper. Besides this isn't a "law" it is a regulation written by bureacrats to make their jobs easier. Laws are written by legislatures which assign the writing of regulations to bureaucrats.

Onshore
07-15-2009, 08:27 AM
Specifically, why would it be a bad idea to open up the bank to striped bass fishing?

It would be a good idea, Bob. When I lived in Gloucester we had a great fishery going in the 1950s and 1960s on Stellwagen for Stripers along with the Tuna. I've been told same was true on the Nantucket Shoals area and east of Chatham and east of the NH coast but never went there then. It was done away with when Striper Stocks were in serious trouble and much of the state waters were closed to taking bass.

Once Stripers were restored and ASMFC discussed asking NMFS to reopen it; the doogooders like the SF crowd and "The Sky is Falling" groups opposed it and their opposition killed the idea. Molst scientists will tell you there is no biological reason for it to remain closed.

Slappy
07-15-2009, 09:20 PM
Bob, I will assume you mean open for commercial
and recreational, same rules as MA waters.

.

Actually, it would be recreational only if they opened it--the Dubster made stripers a gamefish in federal waters and commercial fishing would still be prohibited.

farrmar
07-15-2009, 09:32 PM
If nothing else proves that the fishing is off this year, this thread does.

Tide Hunter
07-15-2009, 10:29 PM
T-hunter,

I understand what you're saying. But as far as the comm season goes (and I'm not against it either), if the comm's are fishing to a strict quota, then what difference does it make where the bass come from? 900,000 lbs is 900,000 lbs (if that's the approx quota) regardless of where it's caught. They don't spawn on the bank, only go there to feed on the abundant bait supply.
Again, not looking to start an argument, just my $0.02.;)

You have a point about the quota, but a safe haven gives the bass somewhere to go where they can't be caught and killed, and they will return there every year. Some will wander off the bank, and boost the numbers of catchable fish in other areas. You must admit, it is most likely good for the fishery, and certainly not harmfull.

z-drive
07-15-2009, 10:44 PM
that damned dubya! imagine that... despite it being old news (never thought of it this way), all the moonbat gripers forever crowd probably had their bumper stickers celebrating his last day in office and fought for impeachment, yet he protected bass as gamefish. (#$118)

Despite it being a gamefish, even if it somehow were open to commercials, as onshore said, the quota is the quota. what difference would it make? quota would be met in a couple weeks rather than a month.

Open it for recreational, problem solved.

Slappy
07-16-2009, 12:01 PM
Despite it being a gamefish, even if it somehow were open to commercials, as onshore said, the quota is the quota. what difference would it make? quota would be met in a couple weeks rather than a month.

.


For those of us who primarily fish in-shore waters, opening the bank to the comms would probably have a positive impact on our fishing. The pile of dead large bass will be the exact same size whether it comes only from the areas I fish or from the whole ocean.

z-drive
07-16-2009, 10:15 PM
i for one would just run out there, get my 30 fish and call it a day and not mess around inshore---leaving the inshore fishing all alone with less commercial pressure. i could see that working out. why not? the only question is, are the "offshore" stripers and "inshore" stripers or do they spend some time offshore and inshore within the same migration--- like do the fish on the bank right now tend to come inshore here? i'm sure at some point in their migration they come inshore, but do some just tend to hang offshore?