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View Full Version : Update on Meeting about the Pogie Boats in the haba


fisherwoman
09-10-2009, 03:16 PM
FYI, I spoke to Chuck Cassella a little while ago and he informed me that the meeting took place today with Chuck, Paul Diodoti, other commisioners that are on the board as well as local Environmental Police officers. It has been found that the pogie seining boats were in clear violation of where they are allowed to use their nets. They will be fined for being in those area's. If they are caught in those area's again they will be fined and they will also have their permits revoked for good.
Over the winter months they will be updating the permits restrictions as they are over 15 years old. There will be a proposal put together to expand and/or restricted areas and also suggest some no-fishing days "maybe weekends and holidays" ect. If you see these boats inside these area's please continue to take photo's, record GPS numbers, and well as video if you can do so, or if you are harrassed please let me know.

You also need to contact the EPO's and they will do what they need to do. If you get any of this information of the Seiners being where they should not be, please foward the information to me, and I will send it to Chuck Cassella and he will bring it back to the board again.

I think that this is a good step in the right direction, even though alot of pogies have been taken in those areas already. I want to thank all of you who have written letters, made phone calls and sent emails about this issue as well Patrick Paquette and Chuck Cassella who pushed this issue with the board so that we have gotten something done about it now,not next season.

I have a copy of there permit information as well as the map of where they are aloud to fish and not fish, I do not know how to post it on here. If someone can send me their email address I will send the files to them to be put up on here or if you would preferr to have me email it to you just let me know.

north coast
09-10-2009, 05:26 PM
Thanks for the update. This is Great news! I called Melanie Griffin before the meeting ,just to voice opposition to this method of fishing in harbors.(I couldn't make the meeting) It just isn't right.I'm really glad to hear that the powers that be are at least willing to listen ,and not give these guys free reign as they have had in the past. I've seen these boats make sets anywhere and Everywhere there are pogys.I actually had a boat make a set around the school I was working with me! in the middle, then the little boat they use took the end of the net and worked it around me to put me out of the loop. freakin unbelievable. these guys have big kahoonas'.

uptonfloyd
09-10-2009, 09:23 PM
That just makes my day!

I can't tell you how bummed I was thinking about how easy it is for just one of those boats to destroy the fall run in a given area for the season in just a day's time.

Thank you again for your information and your efforts. Because of the original post, I also sent an email.

Hopefully, this early fall intervention will do the trick.

z-drive
09-10-2009, 09:26 PM
send those files my way, if you don't mind. i will PM my info.


excellent news though.

GreenDrake
09-11-2009, 08:44 AM
Thanks to Fisherwoman for bringing attention to this important issue, without the incredible forage base in Boston Harbor the big fish won't be around.

Based on the information in the first thread I sent an e-mail to Paul Diodati (Paul.Diodati@state.ma.us), the Director of the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries to express my concerns as a recreational angler. I was plesantly suprised this morning to receive a very thoughtful e-mail from Paul. It's nice to know that the people making decisions regarding these resources are listening and responding to the concerns of the recreational fishing community!

Paul explained that some of the purse seiners had been in violation of their permits and would be fined. More importantly, they are considering a proposal to limit purse seining in inner harbor waters.

I've been flamed here before for bringing up environmental issues and as a result don't post much anymore. I wanted to say that I recognize the importance of commercial fishing to the economy and character of the Massachusetts coast. The proposal to extend limits on purse seining in sensitive areas such as inner harbor waters sounds like an excellent idea that will reduce future conflicts and protect the interests of the recreational community while still allowing for an environmentally sustainable commercial catch.

It seems that managers should be particularly sensitive to ensuring that species like poagies that form an important forage base for other commercially important species are not over harvested. It would be helpful to the recreational fishing community to be aware of the scientific data regarding how a 'sustainable' catch of poagies is determined so we can feel confident that this resources is not being over exploited.

Thanks again to Fisherwoman for keeping this important information on our radar.

GreenDrake

uptonfloyd
09-11-2009, 09:11 AM
I just received the same well-worded, well thought out email. And in my reply I thanked Paul for the timely response and concrete action.

I'd also like to mirror GreenDrake's feelings...I am not anti-commercial by any stretch of the imagination. I am pro resource and feel that tapping in and depleting the baitfish so near the source is in no one's long-term interests.

fisherwoman
09-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Thank you all for your positive words, I am not against the commerical fishery either, I just want to make sure we are all playing by the rules as the main issue here is that if the fish have no food to eat, they will not come here and they surely will not stay long if they do come at all. Hopefully this is a postive step for all concerned to keep from totally depleting the resource of these big baits that we are finally starting to see after a long 20 years that is was not available.
I know 3 years ago there were a ton of pogies here, but since then they have gotten more scarce each year after that. we need to make sure there is enough bait for everyone before we go crazy and open it up to the flood gates to wipe it all out.

Onshore
09-11-2009, 03:53 PM
I am not anti-commercial by any stretch of the imagination. I am pro resource and feel that tapping in and depleting the baitfish so near the source is in no one's long-term interests.

I am just as opposed to inshore seining or dragging as anyone else and have been for years.

However, I'm not sure what you mean by "depleting the baitfish so near the source" since Pogies are spawned offshore and only move into nearshore waters as juveniles(peanuts). Therefore, the source would be offshore waters, not harbors, etc. Adults move inshore and offshore depending upon ther food source.

Irregardless, seining or dragging in harbors and near shore should not be allowed because of all the environmental damage it causes.

And, congratulations to everyone who worked hard to bring this matter before the DMF and to the fishing public.

fisherwoman
09-13-2009, 05:50 PM
If anybody on here can email me, I will send them the chart of where they are aloud to go and also the permit restrictions they must abide by. I am not sure I can get it to upload to the site. So If anybody can help me out with posting this information for the board, I would greatly appreciate it. You can send your email address to julbil@comcast.net and I will send you the 2 files.
Thanks In advance

z-drive
09-13-2009, 08:48 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a14/suppys/bh_purse_seine_restricted_areas.jpg

fisherwoman
09-14-2009, 10:04 AM
Thanks for posting the chart Z-drive, if you could possibly post the PDF file that would be great as well. thanks again everybody

dcobbett
09-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Is there a similar chart for the north shore? If so, could someone please post it or post where it could be viewed or accessed?

constant_menace
09-15-2009, 11:09 AM
If i'm going to get bounced off this board, i might as well go down fighting.

If you're going to be righteously indignant about something, it is typically best to know something about the subject.


Irregardless, seining or dragging in harbors and near shore should not be allowed because of all the environmental damage it causes.



I wrote this email to Deputy Director Dan McKiernan.

Hello Mr. McKiernan,

There is a lot of public concern about a few small menhaden seiners
working in Boston Harbor this summer. I am former DMF employee,
Federal fisheries observer, hold a degree in Fisheries Sciences and am
well versed in commercial fishing gear, techniques and construction
methods. Every single time I have seen the seiners working, they are
within the confines of the law, in appropriate areas and are not
interfering with any one else, their fishing is entirely clean;
harvesting only menhaden.

The local sport fishing community, charter fishing captains in
particular are sensitive to the harvest of menhaden for selfish
reasons. This is simply a case of fisheries resource contention
between two opposing use groups. I am concerned that one group has a
larger voice, due to sheer numbers, and are using scare tactics to
influence a lot of other people and I wanted to take the opportunity to
offer an opposing view point.

If I had witnessed any vessel working outside the scope of the
regulations I would have been the first person to place a call to
the Environmental Police Radio room, but this is simply not what I
have witnessed. The preservation of properly permitted, appropriately
managed, clean commercial fisheries is extremely important to the
State of Massachusetts, given the appropriate stock levels I hope the
Commonwealth gives them the opportunity to continue fishing.

Thank you for your time.

BigK
09-15-2009, 11:54 AM
You couldn't possibly see it all. Somebody else saw them breaking the regulations.

That being said 90% of the charters I go on either they keep more than permitted........one guy took me out to the EEZ to purposely target stripers....

Looks like a field day to me for everyone....

uptonfloyd
09-15-2009, 12:46 PM
It should be noted that AFTER and investigation, the seiners were found to have been in violation of the rules and were subsequently fined.

So it looks like somebody who lacked the obvious pedigree of Constant Menace must have witnessed something illegal.

bostonfisher
09-15-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't have a fancy pedigree but I've seen them in around the moorings which according to that map is illegal :)

Thank you for posting the map by the way!

dcobbett
09-15-2009, 06:24 PM
Repeat.
Is there a graphic similar to the one that has been posted covering waters north of Boston Harbor and, if so, can someone please post it or provide a link to a source? Thanks.

fisherwoman
09-15-2009, 06:25 PM
Constant Menace, I do not disagree that if the boats are working in the proper area's then they should be allowed to be there, I don't know how many days you spend on the water but I am out there about 5 days a week, not only did I see them in several area's they should not have been, But on more than 5 different occasions on different days and saw them ravage the bait that the recreational fisherman have been struggling to get all summer, not even could they get any pogies in snaggable numbers!!!

We have the evidence to prove it. I don't take picking sides on an issue lightly. We all have a right to fish withing the LAW and that my friend was not happening and I know quite a few other people who also took photographs and submitted them as well on days that I was not even out there.

And since you seem to know everybody and everyone if the fisheries service, you can call and ask them how many times they were boarded by the Enviromental Police and documented where they should not have been. That is why they got fined.

I can also say that if I get a small bass in my 65 ft X 8ft net or a bluefish you can be dam sure they are getting them in their net which is approxamately 600ft by 25ft.

Do you really think they are going to throw any bicatch out in the middle of walloston beach when everybody would know where it came from/ Don't think so!!! But I guess the rest of us who have been struggling to get bait all summer should go up to Salem Harbor and see how many pogies they have left up there now that these small commercial pogie boats netted them all spring and summer and they are all but gone.

Which by the way are the same boats that we have in the harbor right now!!!

One thing I do know is that there is not enough bait here to sustain everybody who need them. That is why the old regulation will be looked at over the winter and hopefully will be updated to the point where all user groups will have enough to use and especially for the bass who need them the most.!!!

fisherwoman
09-15-2009, 06:30 PM
Dcobbett, i am not sure if there is another chart for the northern area's. But I would think you could contact the DMF and they can let you know if there is one. www.mass.gov/dmf

constant_menace
09-16-2009, 01:35 PM
I can also say that if I get a small bass in my 65 ft X 8ft net or a bluefish you can be dam sure they are getting them in their net which is approxamately 600ft by 25ft.

Big difference between a purse seine and a gillnet. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

uptonfloyd
09-16-2009, 02:05 PM
Big difference between a purse seine and a gillnet. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

There now, chief. See how you made a point but then had to deliberately take a cheap shot at someone who has been completely upfront and polite with you???

That make you feel like a tough guy? Or an intellectual?

Grow up and take being wrong like an adult.

LeakinLena
09-16-2009, 02:51 PM
I don't mean to be stupid, but can someone explain/define what "restricted" water means on the chart.

JohnnyR
09-16-2009, 03:20 PM
Big difference between a purse seine and a gillnet. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

you show your true colors right there. what part of the comm industry do you work for?

Bob Parsons
09-16-2009, 04:27 PM
you show your true colors right there. what part of the comm industry do you work for?
Does not make a difference, we should welcome opinions, and information from all fishing sectors. You'd be surprised how many posters work comm. in some aspect.

north coast
09-16-2009, 06:25 PM
If i'm going to get bounced off this board, i might as well go down fighting.

If you're going to be righteously indignant about something, it is typically best to know something about the subject.




I wrote this email to Deputy Director Dan McKiernan.

Hello Mr. McKiernan,

There is a lot of public concern about a few small menhaden seiners
working in Boston Harbor this summer. I am former DMF employee,
Federal fisheries observer, hold a degree in Fisheries Sciences and am
well versed in commercial fishing gear, techniques and construction
methods. Every single time I have seen the seiners working, they are
within the confines of the law, in appropriate areas and are not
interfering with any one else, their fishing is entirely clean;
harvesting only menhaden.

The local sport fishing community, charter fishing captains in
particular are sensitive to the harvest of menhaden for selfish
reasons. This is simply a case of fisheries resource contention
between two opposing use groups. I am concerned that one group has a
larger voice, due to sheer numbers, and are using scare tactics to
influence a lot of other people and I wanted to take the opportunity to
offer an opposing view point.

If I had witnessed any vessel working outside the scope of the
regulations I would have been the first person to place a call to
the Environmental Police Radio room, but this is simply not what I
have witnessed. The preservation of properly permitted, appropriately
managed, clean commercial fisheries is extremely important to the
State of Massachusetts, given the appropriate stock levels I hope the
Commonwealth gives them the opportunity to continue fishing.

Thank you for your time.




"Bounced off the board" Why would you get bounced off the board? You have a right to voice your opinion. As long as it's done in a civil manner.
I have issues with your opinion ,but that doesn't mean you can't voice it.
First, Anyone that knows me,(and a number here do) know that I'm as far from being anti-comm. as you can get. Against comm. fishing I am definately not.Against destructive practices Like pair trawling, and purse seining forage fish, I definately am. these types of fishing aren't good for anyone(or fish) except a short term gain for these boat operators. I say short term Because I don't have any doubt ,If left alone they will surely take every pogy.

Again, don't get me wrong here.I don't blame these guys at all. The ones that are doing it legally.This is a management issue. And any anger at these practices should be directed at management and NOT the fishermen.

Second, there were definately some violations going on here as I have seen them with my own eyes.

I've been at this game for a Long time .I remember back in the 70's and 80's when you could almost literally walk on the pogys in the summer, on many different harbors and rivers. There were frequent fish die offs because so many fish would get into a portion of a river or harbor,that they would actually deplete all the oxygen and suffocate. Then I remember the pogy boats , lots of them. There also was a huge barge(maybe 100 Ft.) like vessel that came down from Gloucester (or maybe even points further north) It had a Huge vacume type system, and a Huge hose on board, It would go by where I was groundfishing in the spring/ early summer. It stood maybe 20 ft off the water . It was so the pogy boats could make set after set and not have to go back to port. When it would return later in the day there was barely any freeboard left. The Gunwales were almost level with the water! It didn't even look like the same vessel. Think about how much fish it took to do that. It wasn't long before we didn't see pogys anymore. It took 20 years to see some sort of a recovery from those days. Believe it or not, the fish we're seeing today are just a shadow of what we used to see. It's sad that, From What I see, we're slowly ,but surely, going right back to what happened back then. We really don't learn from our mistakes do we.

north coast
09-19-2009, 05:29 AM
Are there any pogys left on the north shore or in boston?