Dead fish floating...

[turnstone]

Beautiful morning on the south shore on Friday 6/25. Clear blue sky, and a diminishing wind. A perfect morning for a short trip.

Saw two beautiful fish (each high 20's) floating out with the tide. Belly up and fairly fresh. Just beautiful.

Picked up each one to take a closer look, and here is what I observed:

Fish #1: One had a bait hook still embedded in the upper portion of its stomach. The stout mono had simply been cut, and it lay flat inside/along the lower jaw. The line was covered with slime, so I'm sure the fish had had the opp'y to enjoy this new hardware for a good period of time. The hook was in perfect condition, and obstructed the esophagus more or less completely.

I now will NEVER believe the statement "oh, sure! They'll be ok. The hook just rusts away after a few days". Yeah, right. Glad you were able to contact each one you released for a follow up report, Doctor!

Fish #2: Had clear evidence of a "gut hooking" a short time before with an apparent hooking just above the stomach. No hook remained, but a fresh wound was visible.

Questions:

You can't regulate bait fishing (or CAN you?)I've done plenty of it myself, so I won't claim I'm perfect (I'm principally a fly guy, now, though).

1. Are circle hooks that good? Should/could "circle hooks" ever become mandatory? With all of us so concerned about mortality, what can be done to minimize it as best as possible?

2. What is the basis for the MA MDFW/DMF decision to not use a slot limit like Maine etc.? Any ideas? Wouldn't it at least minimize waste. Heck, maybe pressure will be reduced b/c people finally get a chance to catch & keep a fish so they are less "driven". Just a wild theory!

Granted, there ARE a lot of fish that are caught & released, and they are swimming happily as you read this. It's just that seeing two wasted fish on a short trip disturbed me.

[rnm]

Here's a tip..

Take a pair of needle-nose pliers or a file and remove the barb on your hooks. Yes, you'll probably lose a few more fish, but not as many as you'd think, and the survival rate of your releases will triple.

Randy

[Brownman]

I've never put a lot of stock in the rust-out theory either, although I have caught fish with hooks in their stomachs so I assume some do survive.
On the other hand, stripers can feed on crabs and lobsters and anyone who has eaten either knows how many sharp points they have so maybe a stripers stomach is stronger than we think.
Personally, I hate gut-hooking fish, and I be interested in any techniques to remove the hooks with minimal damage.

[bpmurray]

<P>Yes, circle hooks really *do* work. The only fish I have ever deep-hooked with a circle hook was actually on Saturday, and it was a keeper and the first this summer to be invited to dinner, so the impact was minimal. I also crimp down the barb, and as long as you keep the line taut, being barbless is irrelevant: the only time the barb matters is if you let the line go slack, e.g. when a smart fish runs straight at you faster thatn you can reel him in.</P>
<P>Watch out though, some circle hooks have the point offset, and these are as bad as J-hooks for gut-hooking the fish.</P>
<P>There was some talk earlier this year that circle hooks would be made mandatory, although nothing came of it. The new Mass DMF booklet has a little blurb on circle hooks, and they've just published a leaflet on them. The mortality rates for circle vs. J hooks is something like 2% to 27% - a better than 10-fold improvement.</P>
<P>As to the DMF decisions - who can tell? Their own scientists stated categorically that 34" was an appropriate limit, but they went for 30" anyway.</P>
<P>B=</P>

[DBHEFF54]

So far this yr i havent witnessed any dead fish floating and Ive been out maybe a doz.times.Some how that word mandatory scares the hell out of me.How many fish this yr have migrated up here and felt the point of a hook?Just think of those blitzes where everybody around you whether buggy whipping a fly,jigging a bucktail,flipping a sluggo,or cranking a shadtail.How many fisherman have u seen anchored slinging bait?Look at the volume of fish and the volume of fisherman.Only 2 fish?I think the fisherman around these parts are doing a pretty darn good job.Save your emotions for serious enviromental tragedies.Put your energy into closing down the chemical plants around the chesapeake.By the way are you working with PETA? {MANDATORY PLEASE}

[PeterSorensen]

I do a lot of fly fishing and a fair amount of bait fishing. I damage a few bass every season when dead drifting deceivers on an intermediate line and barb or no barb, hook them in the throat or the gills. It is unavoidable if you fish a lot. When bait fishing, IMO, technique has more to do with gut hooking fish than the type of hook used. I like to bait fish because I catch very big fish that way and I am as responsible as I can be at trying not to gut hook them. I use #9 hooks which go clear through my bait and have a large exposed point and it sets instantly if you keep a tight drag. I like to fish deep channel edges with moving water and as soon as the fish picks up the bait, it is immediately hooked in the mouth by the pull from the current. I rarely gut hook any fish this way, in fact I caught a 34" fish in the lip Saturday which was as healthy as can be and it had an #8 hook firmly implanted in it's upper palate which was very rusty and had been there for some time. It's the "chunkers" that go to an area, toss in some bait and sit there with an open bail and feed line to a running fish, then cross it's eyes with a mighty pull on the rod. If the fish doesn't drop the bait, guaranteed gut hook every time. Makes me crazy... I really try to tell my friends that bait fish to be careful and keep their drag set for a fast hook-up. Just my .02

Regards,
BigPete

[Basenji123]

Perhaps the use of Bronze hooks would help? I realize they have drawbacks in Saltwater. One of the Drawbacks however could be a life saver for the fish...They RUST out fast!

[turnstone]

To BigPete, rnm, Brownman, B=, bpmurray, Scottne and Basenji123,

Thank you for your constructive feedback. I think Circle hooks are a new thing for my tackle box after 30+ years of bass & blue fishing. I also am relieved to hear that at least there might be dialog of substance regarding the issue of hooking mortality. I have never found dead fish in many trips, and to find two fine fish on a short hop was discouraging.

Turnstone
================================================== =========
Dear Mr. DBHEFF54,

In response to your "mandatory reply" re my affiliations, I am pleased to inform you that I am not a member of PETA, nor do I subscribe to any of their opinions.

In fact, I have been an active regional leader of a noteworthy sportsmen's conservation organization (no need to name it here). Owing to what we as a group have done, I would say that we HAVE had an impact on what you so directly suggested I involve myself with. It is also a safe assumption that YOU have directly enjoyed the fruits of our collective labors.

Owing to your tone in response to my attempt at a "conservation-oriented" observation, my response to you is as follows:

1. Your focus on the "macro" is commendable.
2. You seem content to criticize focus on the "micro"
3. You appear to completely miss/disregard that fact that the two issues raised by the both of us are valid, relevant, and related.

My friend, it is right to focus on cleaning up the chemical companies etc. But if you consistently ignore the mortality of breed stock (and countless other issues), the road to complete and (ultimately) balanced stocks will be a long one.

I do not feel a reponse from YOU is "mandatory" (I have put enough time into this response). All I ask is that you involve YOURSELF in legitimate conservation efforts. If you have done so, I urge you to continue. If you are currently involved, then round up some friends and get them involved, too.

It is not necessary to point fingers when a question or issue raised does not meet YOUR requirements. It takes lots of effort from all types of people, and the concerted effort must travel in many directions.

Good luck, my friend.

[bpmurray]

<P>This sounds like one of those religious diatribes: fly is better than chunk. I'll use every and any method, while claiming that none has an inherently more moral position than another, and I know from experience that you have a number of very incorrect assumptions in your posting:</P>
<P>In the three years of using circle hooks almost exclusively (with skittish fish, it's necessary to strike like lightening at the slightest tap, so I use J-hooks then), I have only once hooked a fish anywhere other than in the lip when chunk fishing. This is using the technique of letting the fish take the bait, waiting a couple of seconds and then braking his run to hook him - one cannot strike with circle hooks. Do I cross their eyes? I don't know, but closing the bail-arm and letting the fish hook himself strikes me as being somewhat less savage than whipping a strike, embedding the hook into whatever part of the fish happens to be closest.</P>
<P>Compare this with the number of non-lip hookups for non-chunks: my first keeper this year was on a small bucktail - caught in&nbsp;the roof of the mouth (barbless, so it just slid out), and this is typical.</P>
<P>The truth is that small hooks, as used typically on flies, are actually more likely to hit the gills and roof of the mouth. Many chunkers now use circle hooks, and the DMF are actively encouraging their use. In a couple of years, perhaps it'll be "those fly-fisher folk with their too-light tippets are exhausting the fish &amp; killing them".</P>
<P>B=</P>

[Ktaflyfish]

slot limit is right on for stripers in Mass. I have seen some of the same stuff and it is very disturbing. how about license requirements then they could afford more game patrol. Florida requires a license. maybe it would keep some of these poor sportsman off the water or atleast pay for patrols to keep more eyes out. Ever been to the Merrimac. insane!!! I have seen a lot of floaters there.
It is time for people to get a clue....