How to add weight to already made merkin crabs?

[flycaster1]

Going down to Placencia in May. I already have Merkin crabs of the right size and color, but a goodly number of them either sink very slowly and/or land hook down. The crabs are nickel sized on size 2 hooks and have small lead eyes. What can i do to ensure that these already made crabs will sink properly? I was thinking about adding some gobs of stuff like Softflex to the crabs' undersides???

[G-Man]

Holy Peacock batman!!! :eek:

Any room on the hook to spin & glue some wire?
Would not take much space...I would think.

[flycaster1]

Hook is completely covered, thus the problem.

[BuzFly]

try some epoxy and tungston powder

[Wayne Walts]

Go one clump of fibers behind eye and start your thread. Figure 8 that clump.
Take a razor cut eye off and tie in new larger eye. I like permit crabs tied on
Tiemco 800 s or mustad c68 tarpon hook size 2 and 4.

[flycaster1]

Go one clump of fibers behind eye and start your thread. Figure 8 that clump.
Take a razor cut eye off and tie in new larger eye. I like permit crabs tied on
Tiemco 800 s or mustad c68 tarpon hook size 2 and 4.

Now that seems like a doable repair. But the way my eyes are tied on (and glued) so well, I think it would be a rather big job. I'm leaning towards the glued tungsten powder on the bottom side as a much easier approach.

Also, guys on the Blanton forum are really against regular hooks (I used Mustad 34007s) as they claim that they all sink with the hook down and that leads to too many hang-ups on the coral or turtle grass in Belize waters. As you see, unfortunately, in Belize prmit are not often found over sand and hook position is very important. Another consideration they strongly feel is that one should be using jig hooks as these aways ride hook up.

[Marshrunner]

Not sure from your description, but you may have two issues to address: weight and weed protection. If I were in your situation and didn't have time to tie new flies, I would cut off the weight (after securing the thread turns behind it) as Wayne Walt suggests, and then add larger SM or MED eyes to replace them and also add a two-prong V shaped weed guard of 15lb or 20lb mono. If your Merkins are tied properly, with the "tail" (really the claws) canted slightly up along the bend of the hook, when you tie the lead eyes on the spine of the fly (opposite side of the hook-point side), it should flip the fly over almost every time. I also like the Tiemco 800s better than the 34007 for permit because of its it's stronger wire but the Mustads will do fine if you don't apply too much pressure and if you sharpen them.

Anyway, Del's original fly is an awesome permit pattern and I wouldn't compromise it with wire or tungsten fixes that may alter its sink and splash profile. I would either fix it with the proper weighted eyes and guard or just tie up some new ones for your trip.

Your call.

Dick B

[sweet+salt]

Marshrunner, I am curious if the traditional placement of the weighted "eyes" on top of and behind the hook eye is optimal for making crab and shrimp patterns dive toward the bottom to hide. Might tying the weight before the bend of the hook flip it over equally well but have the crustacean imitation sink more realistically? If so weight could be added in front of the Merkins "claws" in this case.

[Marshrunner]

S+S: The fly would certainly sink OK with the eyes at the bend but it would tend to dive to the bottom TOWARD the fish rather than away from it, which is abnormal. Unlike shrimp patterns that are weighted at the hook bend like the Simram and Squimp, which dive straight down when you pause between strips, crabs, with their broad-carapace bodies, tend to plane at an angle downward when paused, and which end you place the weight on determines the direction of that they plane down through the water column.

The only two crabs I can think of, at the moment, with weight at the bend are Len Wright's Hackle Merkin and Bill Tapply and Andy Gill's Woolly Crab. The first has a body of hackle fibers and was weighted with two bead chain beads on mono at the bend and it sinks very slowly pretty--much straight down because the hackle body is so light--and this was OK because the fly was designed for tailing bones where you want a very slow sinker to stay as long as possible in the in the debris cloud made by grubbing fish. The Woolly Crab has weighted eyes at the bend but it also has a belly plate of lead for the neck wrapper of a wine bottle so it still sinks more downwardly that toward the fish.

Most all of the other great crab patterns (Del's Merkin, Moore's Wool Crab, Isley's Wool Crab, Moffo's Fleeing Crab, Adam's Bastard Crab, Borski's Chernobyl Crab, Pat Dorsy's Bone Slappa, and Veverka's Capt Crabby and Foxy Lady crabs) are weighted at the hook eye and I think that's why they work so well.

Dick

[flycaster1]

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions. Well, I just tested my Merkins (all made the classical way) by dropping them into a column of water. To my amazement, they all landed hook-up. Some descended at an angle, others at an almost straight down, but when they hit bottom, the hook was up. Interestingly, if the Merkin wasn't water logged to begine with, when it landed on the bottom it landed with its head down and hook up at a 45 degree angle. However, pulling on the line, made the crab "crawl" along the bottom with hook up, at a realistic angle.

[Marshrunner]

Sounds like you have eyes that are close to the right size after all. Have a good trip.

Dick

[sweet+salt]

Flycaster1, Have a great time in Placencia, enjoy a basket of fryjacks with your breakfast eggs doused with Marie Sharps wonderful Habarnero Sauce and use a non-slip loop knot with your crab flies.

Marshrunner, Thank you for your historically evaluative references to weight placement and crab imitation dive behavior. And it makes total sense that, with crabs defensive posture being clawes up that the weight be placed at the hook eye. What I hope you can clarify for us is if the same pertains to shrimp imitating flies? Would they too retreat toward the bottoms safety swimming tail down thus optimizing the weight at the front of the hook (rear of the shrimp). I just hate having bead chain or whatever protrusions at the tail of my shrimp when it is so easily disguised at the thicker mouth parts and carapace end of the imitation by the bend of the hook. Of course, one could use folded lead wire on top by the hook eye for a slimmer profile and I am trying this. What do you think? S+S

[Marshrunner]

Good question S + S.

I've seen some shrimp back away in a defensive posture like crabs--usually larger shrimps and mantises--but many others, especially smaller species, will dart away head first and dive for cover. Most of them then resort to freezing to blend in with the bottom or they dig to get below it if they can (again, some head first, some tail first). So, both rear-facing and forward-facing profiles are valid on shrimp flies and, not surprisingly, we find some very successful shrimp patterns show the head of the shrimp to the fish, like Petersen's Spawning Shrimp and the Simonsen's Simram, and other equally successful shrimp flies present the tail to the attacking bonefish, like the Gotcha, Crazy Charlie, Scampi, Bonecrusher and a multitude of others. Still other shrimp flie are ambivalent. Patterns like the Jeffrey Cardenas' Bunny Bone flies, Steve Huff's Joe-To-Go, Winston Moore's Green Puff, Omeko Glinton's Meko Special and the Ghost have eyes placed at a bit closer to the midpoint on the shank and have "tails" with elements that could represent EITHER mouthparts, antennae, and swimming legs on the front of the creature OR could represent telsons and rear legs element. So the can suggest shrimp escaping both head first and tail first.

As for weight placement, I think one of the most compelling reasons for putting the barbell or bead chain metal eyes on the tail end (and at the hook-eye end) of flies like the Spawning Shrimp, Veverka's Mantis, and the Strip Tease is that it lets the head, antennae, eyes, mouthparts, and swimming legs "float" and wiggle as these parts face the approaching the fish. And these flies appear to be escaping tail first into the grass or mud bottom. But equally successful shrimp flies like the Squimp and the Golden Eye are weighted at the head end and they are also head-facing-fish flies and they work well too. Jim's Golden Eye took three world records for the late Jim Orthwein.

Dick B

[bonefishwhisper]

I have fought with the same problems over the yrs...I finally gave up on the merkin and plowed new ground...I have been tying 2 DB weights near the eye of the hook and then coating them with epoxy and painting them...it makes for a "rounded " bottom of the crab that "rocks" when sitting still and in the fighting position...I have tried about every way possible as far as weight placement goes and I always come back to DB eyes in the rear of the crab...granted my tying is not what one might call traditional but without properly weighting them they are useless...good luck on your quest and if you figured out a better way please enlighten me...also I made up a crab bomb that you add the weight on the spot on the line coming off the hook so the fly is unweighted, pinch a spit shot or 3 depending on how fast and far you want it to sink...note the crab is tied up reverse to promote depth charge casting