WHAT'S THE LAW

[dirwin6]

I WAS FISHING YESTERDAY AT THE END OF REVERE BEACH JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE POINT OF PINES. I SET UP MY POLES AND WAS GETTING READY TO BAIT THE HOOKS WHEN A GUY CAME RUNNING FROM HIS HOUSE AT 21 PINES ST AND STARTED YELLING MOVE YOUR F!!!!!!!IN STUFF OUT OF THERE . HE GRABED MY STUFF AND MOVED IT 6 FEET TO THE RIGHT WHERE HE FIGURED THE LINE TO BE REVERE PUBLIC BEACH. AFTER THE THINGS YOU HERE ABOUT RAGE LATELY I THOUGHT NOT TO ENGAGE HIM BUT FIND OUT THE LAW ON THIS SUBJECT WHERE CAN I SET UP AND WHAT ARE MY RIGHT'S. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

DAVE

[squidbreath]

no one owns below the mean high water mark,anal retentive people like the one you came across need to be made aware of the joys of ex-lax.sb

[fishinimpossible]

One of the oldest laws on the books in Mass. is that you have the right to be below the mean high tide mark for the purposes of fishing, fowling and navigating. In addition, if there is a manmade structure such as a dock or jetty, you may circumnavigate the obstacle, even if it means walking on private land. Your best bet is to keep a low profile. If confronted by an adamant land owner tell them to call the police. Just be sure that you are carrying a rod in your hand (or a shotgun during duck season).

[MCFFSH]

Dave, Given the state of affairs these days you have to be real careful of how you respond to anyone you don't know. "Do you play Hockey??" Anyway- Ma.General Law CH 131 basically states that you have the right to conduct the activities of hinting, fishing or trapping without interference. Sect. 5C "No person shall obstruct or interfere with or otherwise prevent lawful....." "Section 90 "any person who violates provisions of section 5C shall be punished by fines $100-$500/ imprisionment of not more than 14 days or both. (Enforcement508-224-2264);
Basically the individual may have been breaking thelaw providing you were not on his property i.e., below the mean high tide mark. There have been incident as you described that have resulted in the supposed land owner calling the local police, the sportsman maintained his/her composure, presented proof of right-CH131, and the less thatn cordial land owner was arrested. On the other hand, sportsman have been harmed and injured or worse. Revere beach can be productive. Becareful and be with in the law. Good Luck
Mark

[Slamdance]

In Massachusetts and Maine, property owners own to mean <b>LOW</b> water. However, the fishing and fowling law (as mentioned) gives easments to folks trying to particpate in those activities. You had a right to be there as long as you were actively fishing and had accessed the water legally to begin with.

[jeffg]

Technically, landowners in MA do own the property down to the mean low water mark. MA and ME are two of the few states that operate this way. However, the above posts are correct in all other respects--the same Colonial Ordinance from the 1600's that gave landowners property rights down to the low water line specifically reserved the right of the public to use that intertidal zone for activities including fishing.

This issue has come up at least once a year for the last five years on this board, and you can probably find some enlightening, if not entertaining to say the least, discussions of the subject by searching the archives.

jeff

[walter young]

I suggest you call the mass wildlife or the attorney generals office. They have a pamphlet that they will send you free of charge regarding this issue. The Mass wildlife used to give them out at the fishing shows.
If you carry it with you when you fish, you will have more law on your side. However,even with the law on your side they may make you leave anyway. There is also a law in that pamphlet that states that if the landowner allows you to fish there he is not responsible for injuries you sustain to yourself.
Get the pamphlet.
Fish there.
And call the police yourself when he gets ****y.
Then keep fishing there.
One side note of importance is that you must access the area of wet sand of his property by way of the wet sand of the public area. You cannot go across the high tide area and you must stay in the wet sand area. As long as you are in the wet sand you have every right to fish there as long as you are really fishing and not sun bathing with a fishing rod.

Get the pamphlet from
The office of the attorney general
Environmental protection division
200 Portland street
Boston, MA 02114

****, I'll PDF it to you right now.
walt

[jsalexanderson]

Check out the Massachusetts case law at Barry v. Grela, 361 N.E.2d 1251 (Mass. 1977). It has a good discussion of the rights of fisherman and hunters and beachfront access.

[pphilbin]

Hey Walt,

is there a website I can get that PDF from?
Thanks!
-Phil

[TomDunlap]

slamdance is right, he owns to mean "LOW" tide mark. and is also right in that, he may not restrict you if you are fishing fowling or are useing it for navigational purposes (reading a chart etc...) my wife write a law school paper on the subject, so i heard all about the issue. Tom D

[Slacktide]

It sounds to me like you a run in with a typical "M*******"!! People like that are the ones that make renowned for being an unfriendly state!! It is sad that they are like that on Roads, and now on the beaches!! People like that are starting to move into New Hampshire also, From Mass & Connecticut.. But overall it is still a much friendlier state than Massachusetts!!

[Slacktide]

It sounds to me like you a run in with a typical "M*******"!! People like that are the ones that make renowned for being an unfriendly state!! It is sad that they are like that on Roads, and now on the beaches!! People like that are starting to move into New Hampshire also, From Mass & Connecticut.. But overall it is still a much friendlier state than Massachusetts!!

[thomsmith]

I don't know much about the law, but I am aware that MA is one of only two states that grant property rights as far down as the "mean low-water" line. That means that you cannot be in front of someone's property unless you are actually in the water - regardless of the tide.

I am a little surprised that someone can pick up your stuff and move it without providing adequate notice - but, again, I am not an expert.

I think you did the right thing.

[jeffg]

Thomsmith,
that is not accurate. You have a right to be in the wet sand area (intertidal zone) if you are fishing.

[bpmurray]

<P>If anyone has a PDF or URL to any site with a clear legal discussion on this matter, I'd appreciate it. </P>
<P>B=</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>

[turnstone]

Here's a wrinkle in the debate:

My wife and I went out at high tide to PICNIC at anchor off of a small beach. The beach has rental cottages above the high water mark.

We ANCHORED above the low water mark (which was covered by about 5' of water at that time)and began eating our lunch. We were NOT fishing.

A cottage dweller came out and said that it was private property, "no swimming" etc. and asked us to move.

Was the landowner within her rights by making this statement? We were anchored above the low water mark, but we were not walking around in their beach.

Any lawyers out there with an opinion?

[jeffg]

God, this smells like a first year property exam, but here goes:

1. If your anchor was above the mean low tide mark and you were not fishing fowling or navigating than technically the owner of the fee estate could probably ask you to leave (believe it or not).

2. If it was a renter that asked you to leave it becomes more questionalbe as to whether the renter could exercise the rights of the property owner...but let's not go down that road.

In summary, that's pretty pathetic that someone would actually ask you to move, especially when all you had to do was slide back below mean low tide and re-anchor just to **** that person off--mooning and obscene gestures falls out of my area of expertise but would be pretty tempting at that point.

The whole thing reminds me of a funny little yarn Dave C., the former moderator of this Board, relayed to us a few years back...

The more things change...

jeff

p.s. that'll be $125

[bpmurray]

<P>Since you can't put your feet down when swimming above the low water mark, I presume the anchor means that you're trespassing. Conversely, if you're drifting, there's probably not a lot they can do.</P>
<P>B=</P>