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  #16  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:51 PM
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Vitamin Sea Vitamin Sea is offline
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I have been messing around with the hollow core spectra for a couple of months now. My impressions:

60# blue is hard to work with because it is small and I think the coloring makes it sticky. The right tools are absolutely necessary to open up the weave and then do your threading and splicing.

80# white is a breeze to work wih compared to the 60# blue. Still the right tools make all the difference.

130# blue is not bad at all and the tools definitely help.

Threading mono/fluoro into the hollow is easy with the threading needles and an opened up weave. With a little practice it is no problem.

Threading solid spectra into hollow spectra is simple as well.

Where I am having difficulty is making the end loop. Working the tool or bent in half wire into the hollow core goes smoothly. Poking the tip of the wire out and putting a small loop of the hollow core through the loop in the wire is not an issue either. BUT trying to then pull that loop in the line that is through the loop in the wire back inside the hollow core is a PAIN for me. I work it around trying to keep the hollow core loose and open but it still takes just getting lucky for the loop and wire to pop back inside the hollow core. Any tips I am missing? The directions say as small a loop in the line as possible will make it easier, but my loop is the size of a dime.

Other than that my connections are coming out great. Now I just need to test them.
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  #17  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:22 PM
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Albiemanmike Albiemanmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Sea View Post
I have been messing around with the hollow core spectra for a couple of months now. My impressions:

60# blue is hard to work with because it is small and I think the coloring makes it sticky. The right tools are absolutely necessary to open up the weave and then do your threading and splicing.

80# white is a breeze to work wih compared to the 60# blue. Still the right tools make all the difference.

130# blue is not bad at all and the tools definitely help.

Threading mono/fluoro into the hollow is easy with the threading needles and an opened up weave. With a little practice it is no problem.

Threading solid spectra into hollow spectra is simple as well.

Where I am having difficulty is making the end loop. Working the tool or bent in half wire into the hollow core goes smoothly. Poking the tip of the wire out and putting a small loop of the hollow core through the loop in the wire is not an issue either. BUT trying to then pull that loop in the line that is through the loop in the wire back inside the hollow core is a PAIN for me. I work it around trying to keep the hollow core loose and open but it still takes just getting lucky for the loop and wire to pop back inside the hollow core. Any tips I am missing? The directions say as small a loop in the line as possible will make it easier, but my loop is the size of a dime.

Other than that my connections are coming out great. Now I just need to test them.
The only thing I can think you are having problems with is maybe the size of the wire you are using. I use some very thin copper wire my wife has for her jewelry making and it works beautiful. When I run the wire into the hollow and then out again I pull a good size loop through the wire before I slide the hollow back over itself as when i first started doing it I woould end up with no loop at the end to work with and it was a pain to work the loop back out again. With the thin wire working the hollow back over itself is a piece of cake and takes no time at all.
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  #18  
Old 08-05-2009, 05:35 AM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Sea View Post
I have been messing around with the hollow core spectra for a couple of months now. My impressions:

60# blue is hard to work with because it is small and I think the coloring makes it sticky. The right tools are absolutely necessary to open up the weave and then do your threading and splicing.

80# white is a breeze to work wih compared to the 60# blue. Still the right tools make all the difference.

130# blue is not bad at all and the tools definitely help.

Threading mono/fluoro into the hollow is easy with the threading needles and an opened up weave. With a little practice it is no problem.

Threading solid spectra into hollow spectra is simple as well.

Where I am having difficulty is making the end loop. Working the tool or bent in half wire into the hollow core goes smoothly. Poking the tip of the wire out and putting a small loop of the hollow core through the loop in the wire is not an issue either. BUT trying to then pull that loop in the line that is through the loop in the wire back inside the hollow core is a PAIN for me. I work it around trying to keep the hollow core loose and open but it still takes just getting lucky for the loop and wire to pop back inside the hollow core. Any tips I am missing? The directions say as small a loop in the line as possible will make it easier, but my loop is the size of a dime.

Other than that my connections are coming out great. Now I just need to test them.
You're doing really well, given the comments you made:

60# is harder in general, it is smaller and the JB 60# is 12 threads, the 80# is 16 threads. The 16 carrier (threads) is much easier to work with. ANY color added to the line makes it slightly "sticky". It becomes much harder to work with.

80# and up becomes very easy to work with with a little practice. It now takes me less time to pull a full end loop than to tie a knot. Keep going.

When making an End Loop, make certain that you get a clean entry and clean exit--no hooked threads on the way in or out. After you poke the wire out, you have to pull only one loop through as form the End Loop. That means, "flipping" the wire through itself (pulling the ends of the wire through the loop) or having a big enough wire to pull the spool through the wire where it exits the braid. My guess is that you're trying to pull four length of line into the opening (I can do it but it is very hard).

If you make the Splice Sections of an End Loop longer than 3" each they will not break or slip--meaning they are 100%.
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  #19  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:25 AM
riptide riptide is offline
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Guys,

Just one thing to keep in mind when your talking all these fancy knots and even the end splice. What IF you get a wind knot 10' in to the main line on the water and have to cut off your sweet little PK, Sebile, or End Splice on the boat to clear the birds nest? Then what? Can you re-tie whatever specialty knot on the boat? If you can great, but if the knot or splice requires bobin's and wire etc. then you REALLY need to think twice about using it or have a plan B in effect.

That trip surgons loop is about as tiny a knot as your going to get in 80# solid core. Even if its a 70% knot and your line class tested your still at nearly 60# of break strength at the knot. I dare anyone to pull that kind of drag on a spinning reel, and since most braid overtests your closer to the original 80# break strength anyway.

The windon's are a great tool. Ive had the good fortune to use Roger's while fighting that fish for 4.5 hours. It was connected to my mainline via a trip surgons loop. Once through loop to loop. Nothing fancy not twice through the loops, no cats paw just a plain old loop to loop. We palmed the spool and put so much force on the fish we slid the reel seat on the St Croix nearly an inch!!!! So much so it blew the butt cap off the rod. The knots never failed. I re-tied a half dozen trip surgons that day due to chafing, knots, etc. All were done quickly and all held up after being tied OTW.

If your going to try for a line class record then by all means find the 100% knot and connection. Build it at home and make sure its perfect. Have backup spools with bench tied connections and put near break strength pressure on your line and connections. But if your not shooting for a line class record, be realistic. Nobody cares what your knot tests out at.... they want to know "did it hold?" If the answer is yes its a good knot and a good connection.

I had a guy once tell me that he learned the Aussie Plaite because the Bimini was passe on his dock and the "REAL" fisherman only used the Aussie Plaite. He asked me if I could tie the Aussie PLaite. I told him not only could I not tie the plaite, I needed a book to tie a bimini. He was stunned and mortified when I told him all I used was the trip surgons. When the subject changed to "so how many tuna you get so far this year?" The tables turned VERY quickly. You can practice all the cool knots you want and be a "Knot Snob" or you can use some very basic ones that work well and can be tied under pressure and catch fish.

If you tie the fancy ones well and can do it in sloppy seas while the tuna are crashing your a better man than I am I suppose. But I've never had a tuna refuse my bait because he didn't like the knot I used to connect it

FWIW, here is the reel seat that was pulled back and the resulting butt cap removal. The split in the bottom of the blank is from the gimble pin in the Black Magic being forced into the blank. I think we were putting the screws to the rod pretty good.

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Last edited by riptide; 08-05-2009 at 06:34 AM..
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  #20  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:48 AM
Basil Basil is offline
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Any of the dyed hollow lines are more difficult to work with than their hollow counterpart. Some, like the 60lb hollow green or yellow, are almost impossible and not worth the trouble. Stick with white. In 130lb hollow BLUE lines, I have found the Momoi hollow braid to be much easier to work with, but again not as easy as white.

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  #21  
Old 08-05-2009, 12:54 PM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Gimbal Wear

This year I switched to a one knot system. That knot being the one tied to the lure. Between my main line and leader, I have a loop to loop pre leader, made of Spectra, that can be swapped faster than tying a knot--and it's 160# test.

I've done that so that I tie only a double Jansik, which is a very old knot, and simple too. It is basically a double half hitch. If I didn't use that one, it would be an Improved Clinch.

Although I could splice on the water, I'd rather fish. For that reason, loop-to-loop and the double-Jansik are all I tie on the boat.

If my pre-leader were to fail, I would tie ... a triple (or maybe four or five) Surgeon's for the loop.

Here's my gimbal from the pressure on a fish recently. Either they're not making gimbals like they used to or we're putting a lot more pressure on the fish this year!
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  #22  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:12 PM
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Albiemanmike Albiemanmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riptide View Post
Guys,

Just one thing to keep in mind when your talking all these fancy knots and even the end splice. What IF you get a wind knot 10' in to the main line on the water and have to cut off your sweet little PK, Sebile, or End Splice on the boat to clear the birds nest? Then what? Can you re-tie whatever specialty knot on the boat? If you can great, but if the knot or splice requires bobin's and wire etc. then you REALLY need to think twice about using it or have a plan B in effect.

That trip surgons loop is about as tiny a knot as your going to get in 80# solid core. Even if its a 70% knot and your line class tested your still at nearly 60# of break strength at the knot. I dare anyone to pull that kind of drag on a spinning reel, and since most braid overtests your closer to the original 80# break strength anyway.

The windon's are a great tool. Ive had the good fortune to use Roger's while fighting that fish for 4.5 hours. It was connected to my mainline via a trip surgons loop. Once through loop to loop. Nothing fancy not twice through the loops, no cats paw just a plain old loop to loop. We palmed the spool and put so much force on the fish we slid the reel seat on the St Croix nearly an inch!!!! So much so it blew the butt cap off the rod. The knots never failed. I re-tied a half dozen trip surgons that day due to chafing, knots, etc. All were done quickly and all held up after being tied OTW.

If your going to try for a line class record then by all means find the 100% knot and connection. Build it at home and make sure its perfect. Have backup spools with bench tied connections and put near break strength pressure on your line and connections. But if your not shooting for a line class record, be realistic. Nobody cares what your knot tests out at.... they want to know "did it hold?" If the answer is yes its a good knot and a good connection.

I had a guy once tell me that he learned the Aussie Plaite because the Bimini was passe on his dock and the "REAL" fisherman only used the Aussie Plaite. He asked me if I could tie the Aussie PLaite. I told him not only could I not tie the plaite, I needed a book to tie a bimini. He was stunned and mortified when I told him all I used was the trip surgons. When the subject changed to "so how many tuna you get so far this year?" The tables turned VERY quickly. You can practice all the cool knots you want and be a "Knot Snob" or you can use some very basic ones that work well and can be tied under pressure and catch fish.

If you tie the fancy ones well and can do it in sloppy seas while the tuna are crashing your a better man than I am I suppose. But I've never had a tuna refuse my bait because he didn't like the knot I used to connect it

FWIW, here is the reel seat that was pulled back and the resulting butt cap removal. The split in the bottom of the blank is from the gimble pin in the Black Magic being forced into the blank. I think we were putting the screws to the rod pretty good.

All good points. But in my situation I don't have to worry about wind knots as I don't have different sports on the boat every trip who are somewhat less skilled than someone who does this all the time. So wind knots have not been an issue at least for me.

If I were to have a problem though with the spliced end loop on my mainline I would just cut it off and tie a nice bimini which takes me maybe 2 min. to tie and I have 100% confidence in it as I have been tying it for many years. Then loop to loop my pre-made windons to the bimini loop and keep fishing. I learned to do the Aussie Plait and it is a great knot but it is time consuming and not a realistic knot to use on the water.

The windons and splicing really have increased my casting distance and have alleviated the problem of knots running through the guides. I guess those St. Croixs do have a limit to their effectiveness. I am wondering why the handles broke on the Penns??? Were they trying to reel against the fish instead of pumping and reeling on the way down to pump again??? Pretty weird to break 2 handles on one fish much less one handle. What do think was the problem that caused the handle breakeage???
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  #23  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:13 PM
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Sorry double post.
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Last edited by Albiemanmike; 08-05-2009 at 09:24 PM..
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  #24  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:20 PM
Basil Basil is offline
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Mike, stay away from the Aussie Plait in spectra, it will collapse and fail. It's my favorite to create an end loop in mono, but NG for braid.

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  #25  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:37 PM
riptide riptide is offline
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The angler the handles broke on was a lefty. The reel was set up right handed for the other angler. General feeling is being an off hand he leaned on the handle more rather than just a normal rotation. Either way it shouldn't have broken.
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  #26  
Old 08-05-2009, 06:43 PM
justin080799 justin080799 is offline
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Penn 950 handles

Albiemanmike ,

I was one of Terry's sports on the boat and explained on an earlier reply about my theory on why the handle knobs broke off. If you saw the video Terry posted you will hear me say fish on and then my Saltiga with yellow braid screaming. You will notice I crank with my right hand . I was helping with the load and I could feel that I was very uncoordinated cranking with the left hand and was putting alot of abnormal force on the handle becuase of the strange grip etc. after the last handle went on the reel, I stopped assisting and the last knob received a beating and was did not break.
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2009, 07:11 PM
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Vitamin Sea Vitamin Sea is offline
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I am going to practice some more. I am using 27# wire so it is very thin.

My solution to the on the water re-rigging issue is make all the loops on land. Then any break-offs OTW in the leader will simply mean putting a new leader on the existing loop in the main line. In case of a wind knot then that loop will be all set ready to go as well and the only thing to do is splice the main line into the hollow core and tie a uni for the serve. Those two steps I am proficient at so it shouldn't be a problem. Key word is shouldn't. Time will tell.

Follow up:
Figured out my problem. When doing the loop to pull through I wasn't pulling the tag end all the way through. Tough to explain, but I was trying to pull 4 lines through the center of the hollow core rather than two. Now doing just the two it goes right in on the first pull. I just finished making up a bunch. I knew it was operator error, but I will blame the directions I found on another site. :-)

Last edited by Vitamin Sea; 08-05-2009 at 09:16 PM..
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  #28  
Old 08-06-2009, 05:30 AM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Sea View Post
I am going to practice some more. I am using 27# wire so it is very thin.

My solution to the on the water re-rigging issue is make all the loops on land. Then any break-offs OTW in the leader will simply mean putting a new leader on the existing loop in the main line. In case of a wind knot then that loop will be all set ready to go as well and the only thing to do is splice the main line into the hollow core and tie a uni for the serve. Those two steps I am proficient at so it shouldn't be a problem. Key word is shouldn't. Time will tell.

Follow up:
Figured out my problem. When doing the loop to pull through I wasn't pulling the tag end all the way through. Tough to explain, but I was trying to pull 4 lines through the center of the hollow core rather than two. Now doing just the two it goes right in on the first pull. I just finished making up a bunch. I knew it was operator error, but I will blame the directions I found on another site. :-)

Sound's like you're doing well, that's what I guessed was happening. Do you know how to make the wire flip on itself? That's another way to get things configured so that you are only pulling 2 pieces of line through. It's hard to explain but easy to do. 1) Push the wire into, say, 6" of line; 2) then, pull the "feet" of the wire through the loop at the "head" of the wire. The wire flips inside out on itself and presto, you're pulling only 2 pieces of line through. This is good when you have your line on a reel and through the guides of a rod.

FWIW, because I'm making a lot of leaders, I can splice 30 End-Loops in 30 minutes. The point is, for those who haven't spliced yet, an End Loop splice takes only one minute with practice. And the only tool is a piece of wire. This can easily be done on the water. If that's what you want to do.

(Vitamin Sea, I'm using thicker (38# very springy) wire, and would like to find some 27#. Can you send me a link to where you bought yours?)
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  #29  
Old 08-06-2009, 04:26 PM
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ruge13 ruge13 is offline
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Be honest with yourselves... time yourself tying that bimini for real.
Now ask yourself, how long does the average school stay up?

If one throws, realizes one has a mainline issue, cuts it off, reties, loops the leader, reties one's lure, and recasts, can one do it in that amount of time for a school to stay up? For real?

I'm guessing (not really, I'm sure) those 2 times are very different in reality most of the time. The school inevitably always goes down.

If that is the only viable shot you have all day, how angry are you gonna be?

The Bimini is a nice knot, it works, I can tie it, but I'll take a 3s every time given the line class we are running. I am not trying to set IGFA records, I just need to land fish.

FWIW, one of those giant sewing needles works fine for the end loops on the splice as well. I haven;t used one, but was recomended by a guy who has. The point is dull enough, but you can always make it more blunt with a hook sharpener or a fine file You can get them in any craft store.

Line issues happen to the best.... it's like riding a motorcycle, its not if you fall... its when.
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Last edited by ruge13; 08-06-2009 at 04:28 PM..
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  #30  
Old 08-06-2009, 07:04 PM
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Vitamin Sea Vitamin Sea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pametfisher View Post
Sound's like you're doing well, that's what I guessed was happening. Do you know how to make the wire flip on itself? That's another way to get things configured so that you are only pulling 2 pieces of line through. It's hard to explain but easy to do. 1) Push the wire into, say, 6" of line; 2) then, pull the "feet" of the wire through the loop at the "head" of the wire. The wire flips inside out on itself and presto, you're pulling only 2 pieces of line through. This is good when you have your line on a reel and through the guides of a rod.

FWIW, because I'm making a lot of leaders, I can splice 30 End-Loops in 30 minutes. The point is, for those who haven't spliced yet, an End Loop splice takes only one minute with practice. And the only tool is a piece of wire. This can easily be done on the water. If that's what you want to do.

(Vitamin Sea, I'm using thicker (38# very springy) wire, and would like to find some 27#. Can you send me a link to where you bought yours?)
http://www.srmo.com/Merchant2/mercha...oduct_Count=17

I highly recommend Shark River Mail Order. Great prices and fast shipping. They may not have everything you need, but they have alot. I bought the Fin-Nor OF95 reel and Seaguar 80# fluoro among other things.
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