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  #1  
Old 02-28-2000, 11:19 AM
Seth Seth is offline
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Need help making my first offshore flies

Hello everyone. I hope the more experienced offshore/bluewater people here can advise me. I'm starting to tie my first offshore flies and need some advise:

1) For a trailer/stinger hook should I use single strand or braided wire?

- If I use braided, how do I join the ends? With a crimp sleeve? If so, what size/style do you recommend. And how do I crimp so the bulky sleeve doesn't effect the fly pattern.

- If I use single strand I assume I should use a haywire twist, correct?

2) I've read articles that suggest rigging the trailer hook at a 90 degree angle instead of 180 opposite the main hook. What do you think of that idea?

3) From looking at pictures of offshore flies it looks like many use fish hair, super hair and just plain bucktail as well as hackles. Plus lots of flashabou and krystal flash. Any other materials I should look at using?

If anyone can suggest a website that lists offshore patterns I'd appreciate that too.

Thanks for your help!

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  #2  
Old 02-28-2000, 12:02 PM
Adam-Albino Adam-Albino is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies


Every pattern I've tied - or recipe I've read - says 50-80lbs mono. I usually settle on 60lbs. I either snell it to the hook, or tie a loop.

I have also read that several hard-core offshore guys also recomend the rear hook be offset - somewhere between 90 and 180 deg.but not at 180. This comes from some of the Sailfish guy's (see Lefty's pattern book). Not sure if this goes for our stuff up here (aka - tuna and Whites).
<IMG align=baseline alt="" border=0 hspace=0 src="http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/v/9/t/2/t2c710a3839h31nr004cfcdhuo/flyman2.gif">
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2000, 02:26 PM
bassman bassman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Hey Seth.....Here are a couple of great links to your question... www.danblanton.com/tandemflies.html

www.eastern-sierra.com/classic_anglers/rigs.htm

Hope u find some useful information here...I think you will...;-))....Jeff
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2000, 02:39 PM
backman backman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

<P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>I think you guys are nuts.&nbsp; I operate on the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle.&nbsp; A stinger hook adds foul potential; is going to cause unual motion on the retrieve if its not correctly aligned, and worst of all *will* break under long pressure.</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I've fished w/ stingers using live bait in Fla and the 2 extended fights I've had (30 minutes on one; 45+ on another) both ended w./ a haywire twisted stinger breaking off at the haywire twist.</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>When you rig *biG* offshore lures with double hooks you can daisy chain the hooks eye to eye; or cable them toegther with crimps.</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>I guess I'd have to miss a number of fish to tailstrikes before I'd even think of fly tandem rigs.</FONT></P>
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2000, 03:03 PM
bassman bassman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Larry...You may have a point. But on the thread below I was asking if you needed single or stinger hooks on flies for bft....Didn't get much response. I *assumed* single but wanted to get some input. Seth may be flyrodding for billfish...For those, a stinger may be of a great help. And...once you know how to rig them they are really easy to do. BUT FOR ME...Fishing for school bft this summer...i will be using single Trey Combs...5-0-8/0 hooks...;-))
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2000, 03:30 PM
Seth Seth is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Thanks for the quick responses!

Yes, I expect use the tandem rigs for sailfish and marlin while a single hook for tuna, dorado, wahoo etc.

Back to the tandem rigging:

I've been told to use wire, not mono, on the trailer hook to avoid chaiffing.

If I use mono, should I use crimps or a knot?
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2000, 03:33 PM
bassman bassman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Seth...I've never rigged flies with mono and crimps but I DO KNOW that you CAN. It is the preferred method of rigging offshore live bait hooks with 100-400lb mono...Jeff
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2000, 03:58 PM
Seth Seth is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Bassman - Thanks. I posted that message before I read the Blanton article. His method looks great! Gotta find some 12# micron and try it!!

Bytheway, any suggestions for meterials to use? Bucktail, super hear, yak hair, hackles, schlappen, etc?

Thanks again.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2000, 05:22 PM
bassman bassman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Seth..NO EXPERIENCE HERE.....YET!!...But...I've been tying for a looooong time and keep up to date the best I can on what works..Since most of these flies will be bigger than average you want something that is going to shed water quickly. Yak and synthetics combined with alot of flash will accomplish this more than a big pile of saddle hackles. Use the layering technique and alternate between the material you use (yak, kinky fiber, ultra hair etc) and flash. You can make a big profile by doing this and still have a fly that sheds water very well. Or you can do as I do and make a *spreader* and tie in materials in front of it. Makes for a big fly that is sparse and looks very enticing in the water...On the link I gave you to Classic Anglers you will find ALL of the flies tyed in the layered manner. Kates flies have many world offshore records set with them...They must be doing something right...;-))...Just my .02....Best of luck...Jeff
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2000, 09:03 PM
backman backman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

<P><FONT color=black face=Verdana,Geneva size=2>Seth:</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>use&nbsp;mono and crimps.&nbsp; Crimps give you a deterministic close to 100% connection, haywire twisting the wire might be 100% and it might something less.&nbsp; </FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>You might also try rigging the point of the lead hook thru the eye of the stinger hook; then you don't need to worry about crimps or knots.</FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Jeff - I didn't answer the previous msg because I gave up on this board for the past month.&nbsp; Sparky gets one last chance to convince me...</FONT></P>
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  #11  
Old 02-29-2000, 09:29 AM
Seth Seth is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Thanks Jeff. Yea, I really like Yak hair too. I started tying with it last fall. Looks like it will hold it's bulk shape in the water.

Bytheway, I have some Super Hair. Is that the same or at least similar enough to Ultra Hair?
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  #12  
Old 02-29-2000, 01:50 PM
bassman bassman is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Seth...Super hair...Ocean hair...Ultra hair...all the same thing under different labels....
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2000, 10:49 AM
Seth Seth is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

That's what I figured.

Thanks.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2000, 06:31 PM
DFix DFix is offline
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RE: Need help making my first offshore flies

Seth - this may be a long old thread, and I'm just answering to say it, but stick with mono and crimps, likd Larry says. Nothing against Jeff, I just hang around with some North Shore tuna guys, and more of them than not use the mono as opposed to wire - can't imagine there'd be a difference in flies vs. baits...
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