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  #1  
Old 06-20-2006, 09:17 PM
FireFly FireFly is offline
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Yamaha releases info on E10

SUBJECTS: 1. Yamaha Outboards and Ethanol Fuel Blends – All
Models
©2006 YAMAHA MOTOR CORPORATION, USA
OUTBOARD 6/05/2006 O2006-009
Yamaha Outboards and Ethanol Fuel Blends – All Models

As of spring 2006, most gasoline refiners will switch to ethanol-blended fuels. This may present a challenge for boat builders, dealers, and boaters in the months ahead. Until recently, refiners have primarily used the chemical MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) as an additive “to oxygenate” fuel, thereby, reducing emissions. Unfortunately, the chemical has been associated with ground water pollution. As a result, most refineries have chosen to remove it from their blends. Using ethanol in place of MTBE solves the ground water issue, since ethanol has a very short life in the environment before it is broken down chemically by nature.

Properties

Both consumers and those in the boating industry should be aware of the following characteristics of ethanol, even when blended in ratios of as little as 10 percent:

1. Ethanol attracts and absorbs moisture from the air. That means boaters will likely face more fuel contamination issues from water absorbed through their fuel tank vents.

2. Ethanol can dissolve some solid materials (e.g., varnish or even oxidation in steel and aluminum tanks) commonly found in fuel tanks, thereby contaminating the fuel. Additionally, it can loosen any corrosion or particulate matter in the fuel system.

3. In some cases, ethanol has been known to dissolve components of the fuel system itself (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks). However, modern fuel hose is made to withstand the effects of ethanol exposure.

4. Ethanol blends can react chemically with MTBE fuel blends, causing additional contamination.

Recommendations:

Fuel blends using as much as 10 percent ethanol are appropriate for use in all of Yamaha’s current outboard models. Yamaha does not recommend the use of fuels with higher concentrations of ethanol (e.g., E85, which contains 85 percent ethanol) or
any other fuel blend that contains more than 10 percent ethanol. In addition, Yamaha recommends boat builder partners and boaters (as applicable) take the following steps to mitigate the potential impact of ethanol in motor fuel:

1. Use fuel system components that are compatible with ethanol blends or replace those in use that are not compatible (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks).

2. Avoid co-mingling MTBE and ethanol-blended fuels. As a precaution, boaters should be advised to use only one supplier for fuel purchases in the months ahead to ensure constancy during the industry changeover period from MTBE to ethanol blends.

3. Install a Yamaha mini-10™ filter or 10-Micron filter. The 10-Micron filter is designed for use on boats with Yamaha outboards. The smaller mini-10 is designed for smaller boats with engines 115hp and under. Both Yamaha products filter out contaminants
and separate water from fuel. The mini-10 features an aluminum head and is made from coated steel inside and painted steel outside to combat corrosion. The 10-Micron fi lter features either an aluminum or stainless steel head and is also made from coated interior and painted exterior steel. Both meet all U.S. Coast Guard and ABYC (American Boat and
Yacht Council) standards.

4. Consumers should be encouraged to carry spare fi lter cartridges in the event the fi lter element becomes clogged with contaminants while the outboard is in use.

Related Considerations:

All Yamaha products, rigging, accessories and parts, including Yamalube lubricants and fuel stabilizers are compatible with fuelblends using up to 10 percent ethanol.

Last edited by FireFly; 06-21-2006 at 09:38 AM..
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2006, 09:41 AM
ChuckD ChuckD is offline
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Thanks for posting...this is the real deal...

I topped my tank off with E10 gas just before this information was released so had a full tank of 75% MTBE and 25% E10. The mixture was a bad one. Not too mention the prior boat owner had not used any kind of fuel stabilizer and the MTBE gas may have been just plain old. My 250 HPDI with only 38 hours on it began sputtering and stalling out. When we emptied the filter/separator out into a glass jar, I'm not kidding when I say it looked like salad dressing. After repeated runnings and emptying of the filter, it got better but the engine was still having trouble digesting the mixture. As I talked to more and more people including a few different Yamaha technicians and mechanics including my own, realized that the best thing for me to do was to have the entire 135 gallon tank pumped out, and quit running the bad mixture through what is a relatively new engine and running the risk of doing some permanent damage.

Basically what happened with the old MTBE gas is that the water from condensation in your tank would fall straight to the bottom of MTBE gas, and be separated out in your oil/water sparator filter. With the fuel intake pulling from the bottom of your tank, this would get rid of any build-up of water in a good running of the engine.

The problem with ethanol is that it acts as a kind of a dry gas. The chemical make-up of ethanol has a loose hydrogen atom which water will bind to, thus suspending water in your fuel, as much as four teaspoons per gallon of gas.

Marinas will charge anywhere from $6 to as high as $8.50 PER GALLON which includes removing the gas and disposing of it (they have to call in a disposal company to take away the fuel), but I lucked into a guy who agreed to pump it out for $3/gallon, albeit not the most professional operation, but it got the job done and saved me a ton of dough.

My mechanic also gave me a brochure on a new product in the marine market called K100. This has been specifically designed for burning the the ethanol problem gas. He said while it has not been proven that it was an option. Here is their website:
http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/ethanol.html
I certainly will be giving this product a try going forward.

Everyone who has not added ethanol fuel to their tank should burn their tanks down as far as possible before adding the new gas. As Yamaha said in the news release, everyone out there using ethanol fuel should be carrying a couple of extra filter/separators on board.


Good luck and if you don't think this problem is a real one, I strongly suggest a Sea Tow membership(or similar) for those of you who don't already have it.

Last edited by ChuckD; 06-27-2006 at 09:51 AM..
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2006, 10:06 AM
FireFly FireFly is offline
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Thanks for sharing your experience with us. After many probelms with trying to get my engine to run while parked in my driveway I made the decision to drain the 25 gallons of stuff in the tank and I'm thankful the dealer did not fill her up with 126 gallons

Got her bone dry and filled with E10. 45 gallons later she's running fine but now I see there may be problems with E10 and your fuel pump

That's not hot!
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2006, 10:47 AM
ChuckD ChuckD is offline
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You might try

that new additive(K100). Might help burn through any residual crap left in the dregs of the tank even after pumping it out...

Good luck!
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  #5  
Old 06-27-2006, 10:59 AM
FireFly FireFly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
that new additive(K100). Might help burn through any residual crap left in the dregs of the tank even after pumping it out...

Good luck!
Thanks for the suggestion. I got the dank bone dry but I'm most worried about the pure alcohol and water which may have made its way to my OB, possibly causing premature fuel pump failure. She runs fine now but who knows what damage may have been done.
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  #6  
Old 06-28-2006, 06:49 AM
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Ken Catch Ken Catch is offline
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3. In some cases, ethanol has been known to dissolve components of the fuel system itself (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks). However, modern fuel hose is made to withstand the effects of ethanol exposure

Apparently not Fuel Pumps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
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  #7  
Old 06-28-2006, 07:57 AM
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Fin Addiction Fin Addiction is offline
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Dont feel bad Ken.....After adding a new arch, wiring, re-doing my decks etc, I find out that my fiberglass tank may not make the cut off date!:mad:
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2006, 09:51 AM
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Ken Catch Ken Catch is offline
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Damn Jeff sorry to hear that. Big Bro putting the squeeze on the little man just a little bit more.
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2006, 12:22 PM
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DaleH DaleH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fin Addiction
... I find out that my fiberglass tank may not make the cut off date!:mad:
Cut off date for what?

FWIW, a friend with f'glass fueltanks paid some good $$ for a special epoxy that was allegedly ethanol proof to seal his existing frp tanks with. E10 ate thru it and the tank within 2 weeks ! He's on a mission to seek out, buy, & store 300 gallons of MTBE fuel to get him thru this season ...
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2006, 12:51 PM
Scott02559 Scott02559 is offline
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My Ethanol Problems

Purchased a used boat last August from Florida, Twin 2002 150 HPDI's with less than 200 hours. The boat had about 60 gallons of Ethanol gas in the tank. Towed it home to MASS and filled it with 125 gallons of MTBE gas (bad move). And this is where the problems began.

Went through 4 sets of Racors over Two tanks of gas (nasty orange and brown water would fill the bowls every hour or so of running). This spring The Starboard engine started loosing power under load. Turned out the vapor separation tank was clogged up with a 1/2" of that orange and brown water.

And to boot I had to replace the low pressure fuel pumps in both engines. The Ethanol-water-MTBE mixture had eaten threw the rubber diaphragms.

That mixture of Ethanol, water and MTBE is dangerous watch out!!!
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  #11  
Old 06-28-2006, 01:19 PM
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Ken Catch Ken Catch is offline
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http://www.ethanol.org/#

Ethanol is good it says so right here!
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2006, 02:00 PM
FireFly FireFly is offline
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This is exactly what happened to me and I too bought a boat (new) from Florida. Got fed up and emptied the tank, lines, VST and put in a new racor before filling up with E10 up here. So far no problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott02559
Purchased a used boat last August from Florida, Twin 2002 150 HPDI's with less than 200 hours. The boat had about 60 gallons of Ethanol gas in the tank. Towed it home to MASS and filled it with 125 gallons of MTBE gas (bad move). And this is where the problems began.

Went through 4 sets of Racors over Two tanks of gas (nasty orange and brown water would fill the bowls every hour or so of running). This spring The Starboard engine started loosing power under load. Turned out the vapor separation tank was clogged up with a 1/2" of that orange and brown water.

And to boot I had to replace the low pressure fuel pumps in both engines. The Ethanol-water-MTBE mixture had eaten threw the rubber diaphragms.

That mixture of Ethanol, water and MTBE is dangerous watch out!!!
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