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  #1  
Old 02-21-2009, 09:17 AM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Glueless Solid to Hollow Spectra Splice Full Strength

It can be useful to add Hollow Spectra to the end of a solid Spectra main line. This could allow for loop to loop attachment of leaders or more line.

Attached is a photo of 60# Jerry Brown Hollow spliced to 55# Daiwa Boat Braid. It holds full strength. But even with closely matched lines, there is still a difference of stretch between the solid and the hollow, so I added a safety Uni Knot at the end of the Daiwa line.

Simple Instructions (when I get time I'll do a photo sequence):

This is a 3' (or more if you like) splice of solid Spectra braid into closely matched Jerry Brown Hollow Core Spectra. (If you match the size of the hollow and size of the solid closely, the difference in rates of stretch is small and the splice only shifts about 0.1% under full load. I have tested this with a 1' insertion and it holds if the lines are closely matched.)

So start by inserting the Solid one foot in from the end of the JB Hollow so that a 1' tag is hanging for a Uni Knot serve later. Pull the solid into the hollow 3' and pull a foot of Solid out the side wall at the end of the splice. This isn't needed for strength but is used to form a safety. Tie the Uni safety an inch beyond where the solid exits the splice. Bury a 1/2" tag from the Uni safety knot back into the JB. (If the Uni tag pops out, the splice has moved a half inch. It is still 100% strong but you should readjust it. This solves the potential differential stretch problem.)

Now, smooth out the splice area so the hollow is tightly on top of the solid inside it. Take the 1' of Hollow Spectra at the start of the splice and tie a Uni Knot Serve, VERY tightly, at the solid/hollow interface. (This Uni Knot serve, tied with the hollow-line tag, can be tied so that it is directly over the end of the serve; or works okay even if it pulls onto the solid core. The best way to make this Uni knot is at the 2 minute 30 second point of:
P.R. Bobbin Knot)

One last note: I have not shown how to make the end-loop splice. This end loop can be made small or large. If you're casting a lot, you may want it to be as small as a dime. The end-loop splice is easier, more reliable, stronger and easier to size than a Bimini Twist (a knot I really use a lot.) BHP Tackle, with whom I have no affiliation, has tools if you need them (I use wire) and some notes on how to make the end-loop. It is easy to do and gets easier as the line size goes up.

Also, you could use this to splice solid to solid by replacing the end-loop in my photo with another solid/hollow splice.

If you have the time to do this you get 100% strength compared with 70% strength Uni to Uni. This will allow reels to be loaded with metered solid braid but still take advantage of loop to loop connections.
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2009, 09:33 AM
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Jim Miller Jim Miller is offline
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Good info!
Thanks for taking the time to post this up.
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2009, 10:30 AM
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That's good stuff right there. I love braid but hate tying it...

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  #4  
Old 07-21-2009, 11:07 AM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Step by Step Solid to Hollow Splicing

Here are the step by step photos of the SH Splice. Please see my first note in this thread for other details and comments. Of all the steps, step 4, pulling the Uni VERY tight is the key. That is what serves the connection.

You can make the splice section as long as you like. I have suggested 3' but you could make it 6' if that felt better. Once you have the splicing needle in the hollow core it only takes a few seconds longer.
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2009, 03:13 PM
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Spot on post

Great write up. This looks like something I want to do and I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. My intention is to get better casting (80# flouro figure 8 in my slim beaut was knocking out the ceramics in my rod tips). Flexibility to change out to stronger leaders quickly. And lastly, i am considering putting on 200 feet of 100# hollow core to help with the end game (for really locking down on the up and down at the end game).

-Are there guidelines you follow for matching the weight of solid to hollow? That is I have 65# solid spectra (PP) and i want to put on a 100# (or 80#) hollow splice is that a problem? Will the larger hollow "finger trap" down to the 65# PP? 100# JB hollow core is .55mm and 65# PP is .36mm (JB 80# is .51mm and 60# is .40mm)

-My PP is colored and coated. Is that a problem?

-Have you cast 100# hollow core? Any significant penalties to 65-80# solid core spectra?

-Have you tried serving the hollow core instead of the Uni?

Thanks a ton,
George
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2009, 04:56 PM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anut View Post
Great write up. This looks like something I want to do and I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. My intention is to get better casting (80# flouro figure 8 in my slim beaut was knocking out the ceramics in my rod tips). Flexibility to change out to stronger leaders quickly. And lastly, i am considering putting on 200 feet of 100# hollow core to help with the end game (for really locking down on the up and down at the end game).

-Are there guidelines you follow for matching the weight of solid to hollow? That is I have 65# solid spectra (PP) and i want to put on a 100# (or 80#) hollow splice is that a problem? Will the larger hollow "finger trap" down to the 65# PP? 100# JB hollow core is .55mm and 65# PP is .36mm (JB 80# is .51mm and 60# is .40mm)

-My PP is colored and coated. Is that a problem?

-Have you cast 100# hollow core? Any significant penalties to 65-80# solid core spectra?

-Have you tried serving the hollow core instead of the Uni?

Thanks a ton,
George
I have tested this extensively and applied it on several reels and fished with it. The "safety" Uni is probably not needed but it does allow you to see if there has been any movement. To your questions:

1. Match the size as closely as you can. For 65# PP I would use 60# or 80# JB. Once the hollow is spliced on, if you want to go up in strength for abrasion purposes, a simple line to line splice (100% strong) would allow you to add 130# to the 60/80#. That may sound like a lot of connections but the splices in Spectra don't fail, period (the line breaks before the splice).

2. Coating is not a problem, it adds a little friction to the Spectra.

3. 100# JB will cast well but there will be some reduction over the 60# line. Above that I can't say. The JB 80# (16 carrier) is slightly heavier for some reason that the JB 100# (12 carrier). I added 80# JB hollow to a friends reel and it cast well.

Consider the 60#. Even if it breaks at 75 lbs. (my 60# JB hollow test to 105 lbs.) can you really put that much pressure on a fish with stand up gear? You won't have any knots to weaken the line if you do it right. (And you can always add 30' of 100# to the top for boatside abrasion issues.)

4. Go with the Uni. Pull to 50 lbs. pressure to close the knot. It turns into a solid, almost translucent mass. You won't get nearly as much pressure with a Serve and it can come loose. I haven't tried gluing the Uni and don't think it's needed.

I'll have a casting windon leader to discuss soon.
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  #7  
Old 07-22-2009, 07:18 AM
Danny M Danny M is offline
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awesome post!!!

Instead of a loop to loop wind on connection, is it possible to splice 80 lb floro into the hollow?

I'm picturing my 65 or 80 pp spliced to a length of 80 or 100 lb hollow, spliced to a 80 lb floro leader. No knots

Does this make sense?
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  #8  
Old 07-22-2009, 08:48 AM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny M View Post
awesome post!!!

Instead of a loop to loop wind on connection, is it possible to splice 80 lb floro into the hollow?

I'm picturing my 65 or 80 pp spliced to a length of 80 or 100 lb hollow, spliced to a 80 lb floro leader. No knots

Does this make sense?
Thanks.

Although you can splice right into your main line, and I know of very successful Charter Captains who do that. I believe that a loop-to-loop connection offers advantages with no costs.

Assuming you splice an end-loop in your main line and at the end of your pre-made leaders:

--A single loop-to-loop knot is tiny. It does not affect casting. It can be readily changed on the water in less time than it takes to tie a knot.

--You can pre-tie and pre-test swivels/solid rings to your spare leaders.

--Because a spliced end-loop doubles the line, it halves the tension in it. Therefore a loop-to-loop connection is 100% strong.

Some problems with the direct splice approach:

--A fish cuts you off on your first cast. You need a new leader. Now you're back to knots.

--Your top wrapping or glue fails after a hundred casts through the guides at 80 mph. Knots again.

--You decide you want a heavier leader or fluoro instead of mono. Knots.

Food for thought.
PF
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pametfisher View Post
I have tested this extensively and applied it on several reels and fished with it. The "safety" Uni is probably not needed but it does allow you to see if there has been any movement. To your questions:

1. Match the size as closely as you can. For 65# PP I would use 60# or 80# JB. Once the hollow is spliced on, if you want to go up in strength for abrasion purposes, a simple line to line splice (100% strong) would allow you to add 130# to the 60/80#. That may sound like a lot of connections but the splices in Spectra don't fail, period (the line breaks before the splice).

2. Coating is not a problem, it adds a little friction to the Spectra.

3. 100# JB will cast well but there will be some reduction over the 60# line. Above that I can't say. The JB 80# (16 carrier) is slightly heavier for some reason that the JB 100# (12 carrier). I added 80# JB hollow to a friends reel and it cast well.

Consider the 60#. Even if it breaks at 75 lbs. (my 60# JB hollow test to 105 lbs.) can you really put that much pressure on a fish with stand up gear? You won't have any knots to weaken the line if you do it right. (And you can always add 30' of 100# to the top for boatside abrasion issues.)

4. Go with the Uni. Pull to 50 lbs. pressure to close the knot. It turns into a solid, almost translucent mass. You won't get nearly as much pressure with a Serve and it can come loose. I haven't tried gluing the Uni and don't think it's needed.

I'll have a casting windon leader to discuss soon.
That is great info for me right there. I am going loop-loop. the 100% strength thing trows me off (always schooled to minimixe number of connections). Really opens up posibilities.

Thank you!

What is 12 and 16 "carrier"? number of spectra strands in a braid?

Cheers,
George
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  #10  
Old 07-22-2009, 11:37 AM
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pametfisher pametfisher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anut View Post
That is great info for me right there. I am going loop-loop. the 100% strength thing trows me off (always schooled to minimixe number of connections). Really opens up posibilities.

Thank you!

What is 12 and 16 "carrier"? number of spectra strands in a braid?

Cheers,
George
Yes, it is the number of threads in the braid. 16 carrier is smoother but more expensive to weave--and easier to begin splicing with. I posted several other Hollow Spectra messages earlier in the year with photos and technical tips. Have a look if you haven't already.

Line Doublers can be interesting beasts. An end-loop or a Bimini twist cuts the line tension in the loop to half of what is in the main line. As a result, a 65-70% knot like a single loop-to-loop is still 100% strong in theory and as far as I can tell in testing and it practice. It is hard to tie and size a Bimini but simple to make and size an end-loop.
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  #11  
Old 07-22-2009, 04:42 PM
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Wealth of info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pametfisher View Post
Yes, it is the number of threads in the braid. 16 carrier is smoother but more expensive to weave--and easier to begin splicing with. I posted several other Hollow Spectra messages earlier in the year with photos and technical tips. Have a look if you haven't already.

Line Doublers can be interesting beasts. An end-loop or a Bimini twist cuts the line tension in the loop to half of what is in the main line. As a result, a 65-70% knot like a single loop-to-loop is still 100% strong in theory and as far as I can tell in testing and it practice. It is hard to tie and size a Bimini but simple to make and size an end-loop.
Yes I did read through the other posts. I do not claim to remember it all, but it is there for reference = thank you!

I have not had much issue with 65 PP until the end game. Not to interested in having a bimini buried on the spool and i like the looks of your solid to hollow core splice. I think my answer is to splice a couple hundred feet of 80# hollow core onto the solid braid. end the hollow in a small loop. Make up a bunch of loop flouro leaders and go L to L. What i have read i the loop to loop is close to 100% and should cast better than the SB figure eight in 80# flouro.

That way when I am in the up and down and have the 80# back on the spool i can cup it and bring extra heat to keep the head up through the spiral.

I look forward to your L to L casting observations.

Great stuff,

George
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2009, 03:35 PM
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Albiemanmike Albiemanmike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny M View Post
awesome post!!!

Instead of a loop to loop wind on connection, is it possible to splice 80 lb floro into the hollow?

I'm picturing my 65 or 80 pp spliced to a length of 80 or 100 lb hollow, spliced to a 80 lb floro leader. No knots

Does this make sense?

I started doing it this way this year. With a little guidance from PFisher and Basil I am now doing it like a pro.

What I do is make an end loop splice in a section of JB 80 lb. hollow core. Then I double my mainline braid and splice that inside of the pre-made end loop splice. Then whip/serve the end of the JB on the mainline with some fly tying thread. The last step is to coat the serve/whipfinish with some Aquaseal which I just started using as I had issues with Pliobond coming apart.

Now I have a permanent spliced end loop on my mainline which allows me to loop to loop connect new windons when needed.

I now make up ahead of time windons with 100 lb. mono spliced into a pre-made end loop and finish the same as I did with the mainline splice. This makes it so easy and fast on the water and I love it so much I am going to do this with all of my rods and just make up windon leaders in differing strengths. It is worth every penny to purchase the Smitty's splicing needle set from Basil @ BHP Tackle. I think I am going to also order some latch needles as well although a piece of thin guage wire works fine for doing the end loops the latch needles may be even easier.

The biggest advantage to doing it this way is the lack of knots in your terminal gear which I don't have to tell you why that is such a good idea.
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2009, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albiemanmike View Post
I started doing it this way this year. With a little guidance from PFisher and Basil I am now doing it like a pro.

What I do is make an end loop splice in a section of JB 80 lb. hollow core. Then I double my mainline braid and splice that inside of the pre-made end loop splice. Then whip/serve the end of the JB on the mainline with some fly tying thread. The last step is to coat the serve/whipfinish with some Aquaseal which I just started using as I had issues with Pliobond coming apart.

Now I have a permanent spliced end loop on my mainline which allows me to loop to loop connect new windons when needed.

I now make up ahead of time windons with 100 lb. mono spliced into a pre-made end loop and finish the same as I did with the mainline splice. This makes it so easy and fast on the water and I love it so much I am going to do this with all of my rods and just make up windon leaders in differing strengths. It is worth every penny to purchase the Smitty's splicing needle set from Basil @ BHP Tackle. I think I am going to also order some latch needles as well although a piece of thin guage wire works fine for doing the end loops the latch needles may be even easier.

The biggest advantage to doing it this way is the lack of knots in your terminal gear which I don't have to tell you why that is such a good idea.
You sound like you're becoming a pro. Nice work.

Some thoughts,

On the mainline, I make the standard double splice for the end-loop, per the BHP Tackle (and other) sites. I do no serving, whipping or gluing of any kind as it is not needed for full strength.

I have found that it is beneficial to be able to slide the first (inside-out splice open to get a leader off. Even if you don't do that, there is no strength or stability added by serving the end-loop splice if you make it per the BHP/Blackwater international instructions.

I have tested the length of splice needed. A 1/2" splice (inside out section) followed by 1/2" (inside splice) will slip at full load. A 1" followed by 1" will hold. I now use 3" (inside out) followed by 3" (inside). On the 3x3, over 90% of the load is carried by the first splice, as measured in the photo below. (I will probably make a full post of this at some point.)
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  #14  
Old 07-24-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pametfisher View Post
You sound like you're becoming a pro. Nice work.

Some thoughts,

On the mainline, I make the standard double splice for the end-loop, per the BHP Tackle (and other) sites. I do no serving, whipping or gluing of any kind as it is not needed for full strength.

I have found that it is beneficial to be able to slide the first (inside-out splice open to get a leader off. Even if you don't do that, there is no strength or stability added by serving the end-loop splice if you make it per the BHP/Blackwater international instructions.

I have tested the length of splice needed. A 1/2" splice (inside out section) followed by 1/2" (inside splice) will slip at full load. A 1" followed by 1" will hold. I now use 3" (inside out) followed by 3" (inside). On the 3x3, over 90% of the load is carried by the first splice, as measured in the photo below. (I will probably make a full post of this at some point.)
I am not completely following you P? How much of the mainline do you have inserted into the hollow core end splice section??? And you don't serve the end of the hollow where it meets the mainline??? How do you keep it all together when casting??? I need more info on what you are doing as I can't visualize it at all??? I do the end loops per the video Basil linked me to over at 360. It has a 12" inside out section and a 12" tag that gets spliced back into the hollow after turning it inside out and then I have about 3-5 ft. of hollow to splice the mainline or leader into to which I then serve the end of to keep it all together. I realize it doesn't need it for strength but if you don't secure it somehow then it will slide around on the mainline/leader correct me if I am wrong.

P.S. I would love to find a way to eliminate the serve step as it is a PIA to do but I don't see any way around it.
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pametfisher View Post
You sound like you're becoming a pro. Nice work.

Some thoughts,

On the mainline, I make the standard double splice for the end-loop, per the BHP Tackle (and other) sites. I do no serving, whipping or gluing of any kind as it is not needed for full strength.

I have found that it is beneficial to be able to slide the first (inside-out splice open to get a leader off. Even if you don't do that, there is no strength or stability added by serving the end-loop splice if you make it per the BHP/Blackwater international instructions.

I have tested the length of splice needed. A 1/2" splice (inside out section) followed by 1/2" (inside splice) will slip at full load. A 1" followed by 1" will hold. I now use 3" (inside out) followed by 3" (inside). On the 3x3, over 90% of the load is carried by the first splice, as measured in the photo below. (I will probably make a full post of this at some point.)
My mistake, I thought you were serving the End Loop. You are correct, where the solid mainline exits the hollow Spectra. You need a Serve of some kind there. I insert the Solid about 3' into the Hollow and Serve as above in the step by step photo sequence, no extra thread, no glue, no way to damage it by casting.

Last edited by pametfisher; 07-25-2009 at 05:30 AM..
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