Forum Navigation

New Posts

Search


Go Back   Reel-Time Forums > Regional Discussion Forums > New England

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-2012, 07:15 PM
Perch Perch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 993
Important MA Striper Bill Please Help

Saw this on Ted Williams' blog:

http://www.flyrodreel.com/blogs/tedw...striper-please
  #2  
Old 02-12-2012, 08:56 AM
COWYARD's Avatar
COWYARD COWYARD is offline
afishyanado
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chatham, MA./Oahu, HI.
Posts: 64
We're going down this road again?.........................
__________________
"see you out there"
  #3  
Old 02-12-2012, 10:26 AM
CMP's Avatar
CMP CMP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: NH/E. Orleans/Islamorada
Posts: 1,545
These gripers forever ppl are like locusts. **** off perch...

CMP
__________________
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats...

H.L.Mencken
  #4  
Old 02-12-2012, 11:11 AM
Perch Perch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 993
" **** off perch..." Are we a bit paranoid, CMP? Why are you getting on me? I merely posted the link and the link's title as a point of interest. For all you know I'm dead against this bill.
  #5  
Old 02-12-2012, 02:13 PM
Bob Parsons's Avatar
Bob Parsons Bob Parsons is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 1996
Location: Barnstable
Posts: 7,461
Cmp We are willing to give you a platform to support a view or offer an opposing view But that does not mean it's ok to tell some to f- o- for posting information. You need to look at the issues in the bills and tell us why you think they are poor for either stripers or fisherman. Moderators giveth and taketh or to put it another way to ban forever or not to ban that is the question
__________________
If at first you do not succeed-sky diving is not the sport for you.


  #6  
Old 02-12-2012, 02:26 PM
adson adson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 142
i was having a discussion recently about this issue and realized that I don't know many of the facts around the issue of commercial fishing.

Can someone provide me a answer ?

what are the requirements to become a "commercial" fisherman ( for stripers ? )

I realize there is a permit required and there is catch reporting..

what are the details ?
  #7  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:11 PM
z-drive z-drive is offline
Beat it!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beverly, MA & Tugboats
Posts: 1,308
well perhaps we can avoid beating a dead horse again; maybe check out the mass marine fisheries website or search the database here...no need for the "real/fake" commercial fisherman debate again.
__________________
  #8  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:19 PM
Bob Parsons's Avatar
Bob Parsons Bob Parsons is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 1996
Location: Barnstable
Posts: 7,461
Ok I've read the three bills and here is my take.

1 Contains a slot limit, This may end up being counter productive to reducing the rec harvest by the bill's desired 50%, I favor going back to one fish.

2 I see no harm in this bill other than some gov. agency will need funding.

3. This one could get twisted and be worked for either group.
__________________
If at first you do not succeed-sky diving is not the sport for you.


  #9  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:59 PM
Perch Perch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 993
Bob has it right. If the slot allows the killing of fish well below 28 inches, it will likely result in more, not less, rec. mortality. People must remember that small fish are young fish, and young fish are stupid fish.

AN ACT RELATIVE TO THE CONSERVATION OF ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:
SECTION 1. Section 110A of chapter 130 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2006 Official Edition, is herby amended by striking the section in its entirety and inserting in place thereof the following sentences:- (a) Commercial harvesting and sale of wild striped bass shall be prohibited in the commonwealth.
The director, with the approval of the marine fisheries advisory commission, shall adopt rules and
regulations relative to the taking or possession of wild striped bass by recreational angling,
provided that in no instance shall any rule or regulation authorize the taking or possession of
striped bass which are less than 20 inches in length or greater than 26 inches total length but less
than 40 inches total length. It is unlawful to take or possess striped bass unless the fish are whole
with head on and are between 20 and 26 inches total length or 40 inches and greater total length. (b) It is unlawful to take or possess more than one (1) striped bass each day. (c) All aquaculture raised striped bass for sale in the commonwealth shall bear the tag of the grower
or distributor of the fish. (d) Whoever violates any rules or regulations made pursuant to this section shall be punished by a
fine of not less than two hundred dollars for each fish taken or possessed for the first violation,
five hundred dollars for each fish taken or possessed for the second violation and for each
subsequent violation shall be fined one thousand dollars for each fish taken or possessed or
imprisoned not more than sixty days or both. No part of any fine imposed for the taking or
possession of any striped bass in violation of any such regulation shall be remitted. (e) SECTION 2. The striped bass quota for commercial fishing provided to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission shall not be added to recreational fishing quotas. Said quota shall be set aside for conservation and the Director of the Division of Marine Fisheries shall use his best efforts in working with the Commission to see that the amount of this quota is not given to other states but remains the property of the Commonwealth to be used for conservation of striped bass.

Last edited by Perch; 02-12-2012 at 05:09 PM..
  #10  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:04 PM
stripersforever stripersforever is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14
slot limits

As a general concept slot limits for a long-lived fish like stripers are the way to go. Fish managed by slot limits are subjected to fishing mortality for a defined period of time that can be adjusted as needed. The background mortality that all the fish in the population are subjected to is your friend in that something like 20% of the fish die annually of non fishing related causes, so that many of the 20 and 26 inch fish that might be harvested would never have lived to become 36 inch fish anyway. Once they reach breeding age, though, as many of them should be preserved as possible for the sake of the the breeding potential of population, and for the great quality of fishing that these large fish provide.

The exact numbers of the slot limit would be determined by the fishery managers with input from biologists. The bill does not say that we will kill fish in a size range. It says that we won't kill fish between 26 and 40 inches, and that a minimum size of 20 inches is established. The department could put the minimum at 40 or larger if it wanted to and allow no smaller fish to be taken.

Stripers Forever's board left the slot limit in the bill largely to show a recognition that we must stop killing so many large breeding stripers - the bill also reduces the bag limit to one fish. The committee could decide to eliminate the slot limit from the bill. Stripers Forever is not hell bent on a slot limit. Given the large string of poor year classes between 2003 and 2011 it is true that we should not be killing any small striped bass.

The total recreational catch of striped bass in MA, according to NOAA official calculations - both harvested and c/r - has declined by 84% since 2006 - see table below copied from NOAA website. The 2011 year class was succesful, but we don't know how many of them will survive to adulthood, and it will be another 5 years before they mean anything to our fishery. Time for serious action is long overdue.

Estimate Status Year Common Name Total Catch (A+B1+B2) PSE
FINAL 2006 STRIPED BASS 8,124,766 10.2
FINAL 2007 STRIPED BASS 5,646,880 12.6
FINAL 2008 STRIPED BASS 4,027,374 11.7
FINAL 2009 STRIPED BASS 2,627,003 10.6
FINAL 2010 STRIPED BASS 2,012,483 11.1
PRELI 2011 STRIPED BASS 1,323,156 14.6
  #11  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Onshore's Avatar
Onshore Onshore is offline
Veteran Reel-Timer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On the Indian River Lagoon, Melbourne, Florida
Posts: 4,309
I'm assuming that this legislation was filed on behalf of StripersForever. So, I have to ask you;
did you consider the fact that ASMFC has continually stated for the past 8-9 years that they will no longer consider a slot limit as a conservation equivilant to whatever their limit is from any state ?

That came about after the disastrous slot limit trial in New Jersey. Has that been changed?

Bill H
__________________
XGloucesterman

This and other original paintings and fine art prints of fishing and marine subjects may be seen on my website
http://bill-hubbard.fineartamerica.com/
  #12  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Perch Perch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 993
It has been scientifically established that rec. mortality increases as the size limit decreases. Young fish are stupid and therefore vulnerable. This is not opinion. I’m citing a scientific fact. Rec. mortality in Maine, for example, increased substantially with the slot limit (though overall mortality doubtless decreased with gamefish status). Please understand that I would trade a reduced size limit and the attendant increase in rec. mortality for a ban on the charade called commercial striper fishing. So I’m in favor of the bill even though it is badly written. But why not REDUCE rec. mortality AND ban recremercial fishing at the same time. One fish at 28 inches or, even better, one fish at 36 inches. The increased mortality that will come with even a one-fish limit of 20-25.9 inches will make the rec. side look bad and reduce our credibility.
  #13  
Old 02-12-2012, 07:47 PM
stripersforever stripersforever is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14
Perch - the real benefits in striped bass game fish are in part the great number of breeding sized fish that will be saved from the legal and illegal harvests that take place in the MA commercial fishery - these are not to be underestimated - but even more from the entirely different set of management values that will be developed once the price is off the head of the striped bass.
With all due respect, I don't share your views on slot limits, and the statistics that you refer to on the Maine fishery are very misleading. There were very few large fish to be found in those days, so naturally the catch went up. Yes, the percentage was enormous, but it was a large percentage of nearly nothing. The culture, though, ushered by striped bass game fish has been a boon for conservation here in Maine. If you look at the number of striped bass kept by anglers in this state per participant it is far lower than almost any state. Our fishery has collapsed not because of killing small striped bass, but because we are on the very far end of the migration, - and the population has shrunk dramatically. The same is true of MA if you compare it to NJ. They have seen a decline, especially in smaller fish off the Jersey shore, but nothing like the decline that we've seen in MA. [B]I reiterate that Stripers Forever is not hell bent on a slot limit. We are hell bent of seeing striped bass managed for a quality fishery that will benefit the widest swath of our population, and ending commercial fishing for striped bass along with the negative management values that it forces on the system is a vital part of that plan.[/B
  #14  
Old 02-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Perch Perch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Before Nov. 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 993
First, I love SF and respect its fabulous work. Second, I agree with your statement about the “real benefits of striped bass game fish” status. But you need to understand that the dangers of a low slot limit are not my “views.” They are scientifically established facts. You’re also right that our fishery has collapsed “not because of killing small striped bass.” That’s because we have a 28-inch limit. If we start killing 20- 25.9-inch fish, there’s gonna be lots more rec. mortality. So why do it? What is to be gained? Are we throwing someone a bone? No. The recs don’t want this. If SF isn’t “hell bent” on a slot limit, why try to enable one? Why not go for a one-fish at 28-inches? Or go back to what worked--one fish at 36 inches? And, as I said before, I agree that “ending commercial fishing for striped bass along with the negative management values that it forces on the system is a vital part of that plan.” That’s why I’m for the bill, even though the low slot is pointless and dangerous.
  #15  
Old 02-12-2012, 08:27 PM
stripersforever stripersforever is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14
Perch - great, when you testify tell the committee what you think the size and bag limit should be, or that no size and bag limit should be referenced in the bill. There will be no secret agenda on the part of SF to push any particular size or bag limit. We just look forward to a day when we can get the biologists input and then openly debate what the size and bag limits should be to return this fishery to where it was in 2000, and how to keep it there. I 'd sure rather start from where we are now than where we are assuredly going to be after another two or three years of hammering on the breeders.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Striper Gamefish Bill D.O.A. per Author Onshore New England 9 02-01-2010 08:26 PM
MA Striper Gamefish Bill Onshore New England 6 01-17-2010 07:56 AM
Status of Ma. Striper Gamefish Bill ??? Onshore New England 19 01-06-2010 11:56 AM
Q & A on Mass Striper Bill Kernel New England 1 04-15-2009 07:17 AM
Moon phases and the striper bite, empirical evidence... Slappy New England 24 10-05-2006 11:25 AM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 PM.




vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.


Copyright ©1995-2016, Cahill Digital