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  #61  
Old 04-28-2009, 07:25 AM
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jackduckhunter jackduckhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Miller View Post
Hendrickson Mayfly.
Nice write up Kevin....way to multi task!
Only two tails, Hendricksons have 3, I'm thinking Quill Gordon? A bit tougher to tell in the spinner stage though.
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  #62  
Old 04-28-2009, 08:11 AM
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Go Fish Go Fish is offline
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BBD -

I've got some slow hardner on the way. It should show up just in time for the temps to cool off. According to Larry @ Raka, this particular version of epoxy does not blush. As a precaution I'm giving it a quick sanding before applying coats over stuff that has cured and whenever possible I'm applying the second coat after the first has started to set up.

You other guys can keep trying to classify that bug...I'm going to tie on an appropriately sized Adams and go catch some fish...
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  #63  
Old 04-28-2009, 08:14 AM
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jackduckhunter jackduckhunter is offline
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Go Fish: Adams will get you what you want 99% of the time so you're right on the money there!!

Very nice job you've got going there. Quite an undertaking and it's pretty cool to see it in progress. Best of luck with the project. Can't wait to see the glory pictures of some fish on the deck after it's completed!
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  #64  
Old 04-28-2009, 08:02 PM
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Albiemanmike Albiemanmike is offline
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I love this CHIT!!!! You go Kevin it looks awesome and you are doing a pro job on it I can't wait for the next installment. I just had to order a new trim and tilt control relay for the Honda. First big part I have ever had to replace in over 1700 hrs. of use. I found it online for $199.00 so I was pretty happy that it wasn't going to cost me hundreds.
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  #65  
Old 04-29-2009, 08:33 PM
Tarpon41 Tarpon41 is offline
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AM:

I noted you used cabo as a filler with your epoxy around the plywood trans...why not 1/4 glass strands/chop/or milled...would not that be stronger ?
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  #66  
Old 04-30-2009, 06:15 AM
soundownsam soundownsam is offline
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You want a nice smooth fillet around the transom and a paste with cabo will do betterthan chopped strand. Personally I like my putty to be easy to work with and my cloth to be the structure. Using chopped strand makes a messy putty and the glass is harder to lay over it.

sam
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  #67  
Old 04-30-2009, 07:38 AM
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Go Fish Go Fish is offline
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Sam is right on.

Chopped or milled glass fiber makes a putty with a higher cured tensile strength than a cab-o-sil putty but glass filled putty is a total and complete PITA to work with. It spreads very poorly. In addition, milled glass is just a filler. It does little to thicken the putty until you reach concentrations of glass in epoxy that actually make a weaker finished material. So, if you have the right amount of milled glass you have a mixture that will sag before it cures

From what I read, most folks will use a thixotropic material like cab-o-sil or wood flower in conjunction with milled glass. Milled glass is there for strength and the thixotropic is there to firm up the mix. Even doing this you end up with a finished material that has a zillion little glass hairs sticking out of it that need to be knocked down before you can do the next coat.

Cab-o-sil putty isn't as strong in tensile but some of my reading suggests it is better in compression. The bottom line is it is just a hell of a lot easier to work with.
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  #68  
Old 04-30-2009, 07:55 AM
soundownsam soundownsam is offline
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One note that might be helpful on putty. Based on your comment it sounds as though you are letting the fillet set up and then laying lass over it. I always mix my fillet material a little slower than my resin for actually laying glass. This will allow you to have the fillet still workable when the glass goes on and you can roll it out to have zero air bubbles.

I find that working on top of a fillet that is set up always has high spots that will hold the glass up and get dry spots or air bubbles when rolled.

sam
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  #69  
Old 04-30-2009, 09:20 AM
BigBoatDog BigBoatDog is offline
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Use Wood flour

It's real cheap 5lbs 5$. provides smooth working material, and if real desperate you can sift your saw dust. The nominal increase in strength using glass fiber isn't worth the itching.
Everything else, what Soundownsam says.
BBD
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  #70  
Old 04-30-2009, 10:06 AM
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DaleH DaleH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoatDog

Wood Flour: It's real cheap 5lbs 5$, provides smooth working material, and if real desperate you can sift your saw dust.
That's what Larry (from Raka Epoxy) recommended I use as a filler (and was what I used) when I glassed in a new transom on my 16' skiff project, shown as a DIY tutorial, click here. From my learnings, here's just a tidbit of comparisons/costs/benefits to the various epoxy fillers, but first a rule or two of epoxy fillers, as per Larry, citing the gospel of fillers:

Rule #1: Fillers don't COST ... they PAY by giving you greater control of your epoxy's properties and increasing the volume of your epoxy at a generally cheaper cost.

Wood Flours: Good as a strong non-sagging epoxy thickener for wood-toned glues and fillets and can be mixed with fumed silica (cabosil) for a smoother paste. ~$5/lb

Fumed Silica (Cabosil or Aerosil): Most commonly used filler, makes a very smooth, strong non-sagging putty and is often added to other fillers to improve their properties. ~$20/lb

Cotton Fibers, Fine-Milled: An epoxy thickener for strength and gap filling properties and to makes glues with good wetting ability. < $9/lb

Microscopic Glass Bubbles: High quality light fairing filler that sands easily. It has moderate strength and good waterproofness. It can significantly lower your epoxy cost as it will expand your epoxy volume as you mix it with the resin. ~$9/lb

Phenolic Micro Balloons: Excellent light-weight filler for putties with superior feather edge-sanding qualities. They sand easier & smoother and have better sag resistant properties than the glass bubbles. ~$20/lb

Milled (Fiberglass) Fiber: A dense very high strength powdered fiberglass filler of 1/32" length. For high tensile strength putties and gap filling. < $5/lb

Chopped Glass Strand: Fiberglass filler of 1/4" length for a very high strength rough mixture for large gap filling. Economical! (DH note, this is what Sea Ox boats were made of, no layup, simply shot into the boat mold with an appropriately named "chopper gun") < $5/lb

Then there are other specialty fillers like talc or graphite used to impart a pigment or tone to the finished color of the epoxy.

Rule #2: Use the appropriate filler for YOUR particular need and/or application ...
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  #71  
Old 04-30-2009, 06:50 PM
BigBoatDog BigBoatDog is offline
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Fillers

Well dale,I got the price wrong on the wood flour. Main reason for use- wood flour is cheap and it is what the designer recommends on the boats I build. You can also use bead blast media, just don' try to sand it. I agree with both rules, use what is typically specified for the your application.
BBD
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  #72  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:19 PM
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Go Fish Go Fish is offline
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I'm going on record and saying that I suck at laying up large pieces of fiberglass. Everything turned out OK but it took me a loooooong time to get the pieces to lay flat and take the corners they needed to take.

Up until today the biggest pieces of glass that I have dealt with were 8" x 30" strips of 9 oz. biaxial tape. For this task I was messing around with much larger chunks of 25 oz 1708 biaxial with mat...it was a whole different animal.

I started the job by stapling the two layers of fabric to the transom to make sure they would fit and to score them where I thought it would help them conform to difficult shapes:





My initial thinking was to wet a whole piece out, roll it around a tube and then lay it in the transom by unrolling it. I tried it with a dry piece and quickly learned that there was no way in hell one guy was going to get that big a piece of sticky glass fabric to behave itself under those conditions. Instead I decided to cut the two layers into three pieces and stagger the seams. Good thing too...even the third-of-a-transom pieces were a bear.

There are no pics in between wetting and lay-up so you'll have to settle for words with regard to the interim portion.

I cleaned the work area and only had the epoxy and tools I needed out in the open. My temporary wetting table was two saw horses two 2X4's and a sheet of plywood covered with a plastic drop cloth. The pieces of glass were spread out, mat side down, and the epoxy was mixed. I poured the epoxy straight onto the glass and spread it with a cheap 6" rubber squeegee. It worked slick but the glass was slow to take the epoxy. The mat side was not getting saturated.

More epoxy got mixed and I jumped into the boat and spread it with the squeegee over the surface that was going to get the mat side of the glass.

Then came the ordeal of aligning, readjusting, rolling, readjusting, swearing and rubbing additional epoxy into stubborn areas with my (properly gloved) fingers until I got all of the bubbles out of the glass fabric...good thing the slow hardener showed up earlier this week. If you ever do something like this spend the money on a grooved laminating roller. There is no substitute for this essential tool.

After the first layer was in I had dinner with Shannon and waited for the work to begin to set. Once it was still tacky but not moving I went after the second layer. the same way I did the first. It was 2" bigger than the first layer so it was just a little bit more fun to work with.

In spite of my lack of experience, which I'm sure would make this go alot more easily, It turned out just fine:





Tomorrow I'm going to try and get the stringer/deck support syatem in place.
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  #73  
Old 05-02-2009, 08:54 AM
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Awwwwwhhhhhh ... and to think I MISSED the fun !
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  #74  
Old 05-03-2009, 09:52 PM
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Go Fish Go Fish is offline
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The stringer/deck support system went in yesterday. I would have posted earlier but I went fishing today so I had to pay attention on the home front. Harmony is much better than discord.

You'll remember back a few posts where I described the situation: The original stringers are 3/4 inch ply glassed and tabbed into the hull. I beefed it up by replacing the 3/4 inch ply that was cut out to get the transom in and adding 2 pieces of 1/2 inch on either side of it. These are shots of the old stringer and the new 3/4 inch piece fitting to it:





I buttered up all the surfaces mating surfaces with cab-o-sil thickened epoxy and made them tight with stainless self tapping "drywall" screws. the gaps between the old work and new work were filled with more of the same thickened epoxy before adding the second sheet of 1/2 inch ply. After adding an epoxy fillet the finished product looks like this:



The minor stringers got a similar treatment. Here's the overview shot:



I have to knock down all the high spots and tab the stringers in as well as get some epoxy into the edges of the wood that has not seen any yet.

I'm going to start building the gunnel cap this week.
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  #75  
Old 05-09-2009, 09:05 AM
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Albiemanmike Albiemanmike is offline
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Lookin' Good Kev! But then again I have no clue when it comes to fiberglass............... I have been attempting to do some very minor gelcoat repairs and that is proving to be more complicated than I thought but I will soldier on and keep at it.
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